KR #94

ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 10/31/2022 10:24am
10/31/2022 10:24am
DonM wrote:
Factory ECU and transmission are things you can't buy....
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Which begs the question, what good is the production rule ?
DonM wrote:
The production rule was put in place to reduce the costs of the one off factory bikes that were being produced and happened because Yamaha threatened...
The production rule was put in place to reduce the costs of the one off factory bikes that were being produced and happened because Yamaha threatened to take their toys and go home (because of the 86 Honda works bike)…it really had nothing to do with making it fair to non-factory teams. The main emphasis of the rule was the frame and swing arm had to be production…but still can be modified by adding bracing but you can’t take anything away….
I understand the original intent . It just seems obsolete now .
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Lightning78
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Lightning78 10/31/2022 4:38pm
10/31/2022 4:38pm
Well now there's a video he posted riding a yamaha 450 soooo
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bvm111
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bvm111 10/31/2022 7:55pm
10/31/2022 7:55pm
Would be cool if Kenny posts a video talking about the bikes he has tried, the differences, and what would lead to his decision to race what ever brand he chooses.
Thisusernameisavailable 11/1/2022 12:26am
11/1/2022 12:26am
Racerman967 wrote:
On a 450 the main thing that is "factory" is suspension which Ken can easily get. The bikes are so powerful for SX you almost need...
On a 450 the main thing that is "factory" is suspension which Ken can easily get. The bikes are so powerful for SX you almost need to de-tune them. It isn't like a 250 where afactory motor is a must.

If Mitch build him a Kawi it will be equal to the factory bikes
DonM wrote:
Factory ECU and transmission are things you can't buy....
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU?

There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out there.
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swaenepoel
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swaenepoel 11/1/2022 1:59am
11/1/2022 1:59am
is it not to find the best production bike ? If yamaha has a good stock bike, then Ken is better of with Yamaha, if the honda production bike has issues then its clear...

i wish Ken could ride a good Suzuki again... his best results came on a Suzuki.
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Richy
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Richy 11/1/2022 3:14am
11/1/2022 3:14am Edited Date/Time 11/2/2022 1:24am
Racerman967 wrote:
On a 450 the main thing that is "factory" is suspension which Ken can easily get. The bikes are so powerful for SX you almost need...
On a 450 the main thing that is "factory" is suspension which Ken can easily get. The bikes are so powerful for SX you almost need to de-tune them. It isn't like a 250 where afactory motor is a must.

If Mitch build him a Kawi it will be equal to the factory bikes
DonM wrote:
Factory ECU and transmission are things you can't buy....
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU? There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out...
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU?

There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out there.
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having worked with most car and boat ECU brands from usual tuner stuff to Bosch Motorsport and Motec, I agree entirely unless I'm missing a large piece of the puzzle.

I work with motorsport ECU's day in, day out, and as well as the bonus these guys have of only working with a single cylinder and no variable timing or intake tract, there just don't seem to be enough parameters controlled by a motocross ECU for someone like Twisted or Pro Circuit to be at a notable disadvantage to a factory effort. Even if they wanted to run a MAP and lambda for testing purposes, there are non-bike-specific units out there which are very small, light and waterproof which will run in a single cylinder configuration with a mega RPM limit and staged twin injectors.

As for factory transmissions, I'm sure Mitch and PC had XTrac build them gear sets previously? Yeah it'll cost a small fortune, but you absolute can have it done.
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NorCalRedRyder 11/1/2022 3:26am
11/1/2022 3:26am
Kenneth and Cianciarulo should just ride out of the Asterisk Mobile Medical Center with Ayahuasca as a main sponsor.
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ga_pike
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ga_pike 11/1/2022 12:09pm
11/1/2022 12:09pm
So I'll ask a silly question... could this be an opportunity for Beta to operate a 2023 team in the US? Apply for an exemption and run a prototype setup like they have in MXGP recently AND have a top level guy providing feedback and helping to develop the bike?
Thisusernameisavailable 11/1/2022 12:24pm
11/1/2022 12:24pm
DonM wrote:
Factory ECU and transmission are things you can't buy....
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU? There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out...
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU?

There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out there.
Richy wrote:
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having...
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having worked with most car and boat ECU brands from usual tuner stuff to Bosch Motorsport and Motec, I agree entirely unless I'm missing a large piece of the puzzle.

I work with motorsport ECU's day in, day out, and as well as the bonus these guys have of only working with a single cylinder and no variable timing or intake tract, there just don't seem to be enough parameters controlled by a motocross ECU for someone like Twisted or Pro Circuit to be at a notable disadvantage to a factory effort. Even if they wanted to run a MAP and lambda for testing purposes, there are non-bike-specific units out there which are very small, light and waterproof which will run in a single cylinder configuration with a mega RPM limit and staged twin injectors.

As for factory transmissions, I'm sure Mitch and PC had XTrac build them gear sets previously? Yeah it'll cost a small fortune, but you absolute can have it done.
Thanks for pitching in Richy.
It sounds like you know what you’re talking about, which means your post will likely be ignored by a lot of guys here, sadly.
A lot of these guys WANT to believe a factory ECU is something mystical.
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Max Petro
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Max Petro 11/30/2022 6:27pm
11/30/2022 6:27pm

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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 12/7/2022 11:27am
12/7/2022 11:27am

OP is batting .000 with his predictions. 

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Langhammx 12/7/2022 11:46am
12/7/2022 11:46am
-MAVERICK- wrote:

OP is batting .000 with his predictions. 

In all fairness, that WAS looking like “the plan”. When you buy 2-bikes and send them to Mitch to build, there’s a good chance it’s not for attention on social media Wink

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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 12/8/2022 7:35am
12/8/2022 7:35am
swaenepoel wrote:
is it not to find the best production bike ? If yamaha has a good stock bike, then Ken is better of with Yamaha, if the...
is it not to find the best production bike ? If yamaha has a good stock bike, then Ken is better of with Yamaha, if the honda production bike has issues then its clear...

i wish Ken could ride a good Suzuki again... his best results came on a Suzuki.

Congratulations swaenepoel!  In a thread full of wannabe insiders tripping over each other to demonstrate false knowledge of Ken's intent for '23, you are the only one that brought up Suzuki. lol

 

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Thisusernameisavailable 12/9/2022 12:21am
12/9/2022 12:21am
DonM wrote:
Factory ECU and transmission are things you can't buy....
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU? There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out...
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU?

There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out there.
Richy wrote:
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having...
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having worked with most car and boat ECU brands from usual tuner stuff to Bosch Motorsport and Motec, I agree entirely unless I'm missing a large piece of the puzzle.

I work with motorsport ECU's day in, day out, and as well as the bonus these guys have of only working with a single cylinder and no variable timing or intake tract, there just don't seem to be enough parameters controlled by a motocross ECU for someone like Twisted or Pro Circuit to be at a notable disadvantage to a factory effort. Even if they wanted to run a MAP and lambda for testing purposes, there are non-bike-specific units out there which are very small, light and waterproof which will run in a single cylinder configuration with a mega RPM limit and staged twin injectors.

As for factory transmissions, I'm sure Mitch and PC had XTrac build them gear sets previously? Yeah it'll cost a small fortune, but you absolute can have it done.

Ah it was Don.

REF: Now seeing HRC using GET instead of their own. 
 

8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 12/9/2022 8:28am
12/9/2022 8:28am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU? There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out...
What is the factory ECU achieving that someone like JGR couldn’t achieve with a GET (or similar) ECU?

There are lots of motorsport electronics experts out there.
Richy wrote:
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having...
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having worked with most car and boat ECU brands from usual tuner stuff to Bosch Motorsport and Motec, I agree entirely unless I'm missing a large piece of the puzzle.

I work with motorsport ECU's day in, day out, and as well as the bonus these guys have of only working with a single cylinder and no variable timing or intake tract, there just don't seem to be enough parameters controlled by a motocross ECU for someone like Twisted or Pro Circuit to be at a notable disadvantage to a factory effort. Even if they wanted to run a MAP and lambda for testing purposes, there are non-bike-specific units out there which are very small, light and waterproof which will run in a single cylinder configuration with a mega RPM limit and staged twin injectors.

As for factory transmissions, I'm sure Mitch and PC had XTrac build them gear sets previously? Yeah it'll cost a small fortune, but you absolute can have it done.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Ah it was Don.

REF: Now seeing HRC using GET instead of their own. 
 

The brand is irrelevant of ECU, but the guy writing the tunes is the difference.  Now that the aftermarket has caught up the past few years, it's not about the box anymore, but the guy making it happen.  I would also argue the "box" HRC is using is very different than one you and I can buy along with the software. 

Thisusernameisavailable 12/9/2022 12:03pm
12/9/2022 12:03pm
Richy wrote:
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having...
Without having worked with Vortex etc, but wiring and ECU hardware and software being pretty much the only things I can call myself educated in, having worked with most car and boat ECU brands from usual tuner stuff to Bosch Motorsport and Motec, I agree entirely unless I'm missing a large piece of the puzzle.

I work with motorsport ECU's day in, day out, and as well as the bonus these guys have of only working with a single cylinder and no variable timing or intake tract, there just don't seem to be enough parameters controlled by a motocross ECU for someone like Twisted or Pro Circuit to be at a notable disadvantage to a factory effort. Even if they wanted to run a MAP and lambda for testing purposes, there are non-bike-specific units out there which are very small, light and waterproof which will run in a single cylinder configuration with a mega RPM limit and staged twin injectors.

As for factory transmissions, I'm sure Mitch and PC had XTrac build them gear sets previously? Yeah it'll cost a small fortune, but you absolute can have it done.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Ah it was Don.

REF: Now seeing HRC using GET instead of their own. 
 

8tensolutions wrote:
The brand is irrelevant of ECU, but the guy writing the tunes is the difference.  Now that the aftermarket has caught up the past few years...

The brand is irrelevant of ECU, but the guy writing the tunes is the difference.  Now that the aftermarket has caught up the past few years, it's not about the box anymore, but the guy making it happen.  I would also argue the "box" HRC is using is very different than one you and I can buy along with the software. 

Oh I fully agree with you. 
some guys on this forum seemed to believe that if the top guys couldn’t use a factory EVU then they would be at a disadvantage, which simply isn’t true.

8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 12/9/2022 12:08pm
12/9/2022 12:08pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Ah it was Don.

REF: Now seeing HRC using GET instead of their own. 
 

8tensolutions wrote:
The brand is irrelevant of ECU, but the guy writing the tunes is the difference.  Now that the aftermarket has caught up the past few years...

The brand is irrelevant of ECU, but the guy writing the tunes is the difference.  Now that the aftermarket has caught up the past few years, it's not about the box anymore, but the guy making it happen.  I would also argue the "box" HRC is using is very different than one you and I can buy along with the software. 

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Oh I fully agree with you.  some guys on this forum seemed to believe that if the top guys couldn’t use a factory EVU then they...

Oh I fully agree with you. 
some guys on this forum seemed to believe that if the top guys couldn’t use a factory EVU then they would be at a disadvantage, which simply isn’t true.

Yes. I do think it used to be true early in the fuel injection age of MX bikes....like when Stew said he wouldn't race without a factory ECU.  That is when they still had numerous quality issues and was simply a different time in engine management for moto.  GET and Vortex have clearly caught up......but it is and always will be the guy tuning the bike.  Some here seem to think that is super simple, but it is not simple to get the power exactly where the rider wants it consistently and cleanly while protecting the engine.  

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