The final word on SFF spring conversions? Please advise (KTM/GG/HUS)

R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 6:32am
9/19/2022 6:32am
Mx206 wrote:
I recently made the switch to the Race Tech spring conversion. The Aer 48s were beating the piss out of me. Landing flat was a nightmare...
I recently made the switch to the Race Tech spring conversion. The Aer 48s were beating the piss out of me. Landing flat was a nightmare and coming into braking bumps at speed was scary. No matter what I changed (revalved forks and shock+Bladder conversion) nothing at better. Pulled the trigger for the conversion kit and it's a night and day difference. Super plush, really responsive and doesn't beat the life out of you. Harshness is completely gone.
Would you say that the shock was fine as it is and that the primary difference came from the forks then? It would be nice to be able to leave the shock alone. I know I'm a broken record about it but it 'feels' good.

This is also the single side conversion you're talking about right? You had great results with this? Pictured below


Dhallmark
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Dhallmark 9/19/2022 7:56am
9/19/2022 7:56am
Mx206 wrote:
I recently made the switch to the Race Tech spring conversion. The Aer 48s were beating the piss out of me. Landing flat was a nightmare...
I recently made the switch to the Race Tech spring conversion. The Aer 48s were beating the piss out of me. Landing flat was a nightmare and coming into braking bumps at speed was scary. No matter what I changed (revalved forks and shock+Bladder conversion) nothing at better. Pulled the trigger for the conversion kit and it's a night and day difference. Super plush, really responsive and doesn't beat the life out of you. Harshness is completely gone.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Would you say that the shock was fine as it is and that the primary difference came from the forks then? It would be nice to...
Would you say that the shock was fine as it is and that the primary difference came from the forks then? It would be nice to be able to leave the shock alone. I know I'm a broken record about it but it 'feels' good.

This is also the single side conversion you're talking about right? You had great results with this? Pictured below


Factory Connection did a kit like this for me along with revalve front and rear that is really close to your budget. I now ride and don’t think about suspension, likely your best option.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 7:59am
9/19/2022 7:59am
Mx206 wrote:
I recently made the switch to the Race Tech spring conversion. The Aer 48s were beating the piss out of me. Landing flat was a nightmare...
I recently made the switch to the Race Tech spring conversion. The Aer 48s were beating the piss out of me. Landing flat was a nightmare and coming into braking bumps at speed was scary. No matter what I changed (revalved forks and shock+Bladder conversion) nothing at better. Pulled the trigger for the conversion kit and it's a night and day difference. Super plush, really responsive and doesn't beat the life out of you. Harshness is completely gone.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Would you say that the shock was fine as it is and that the primary difference came from the forks then? It would be nice to...
Would you say that the shock was fine as it is and that the primary difference came from the forks then? It would be nice to be able to leave the shock alone. I know I'm a broken record about it but it 'feels' good.

This is also the single side conversion you're talking about right? You had great results with this? Pictured below


Dhallmark wrote:
Factory Connection did a kit like this for me along with revalve front and rear that is really close to your budget. I now ride and...
Factory Connection did a kit like this for me along with revalve front and rear that is really close to your budget. I now ride and don’t think about suspension, likely your best option.
Thanks a ton man, i'm kind of between what you just mentioned versus a more 'intenive' fork setup. I appreciate the input.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 8:57am
9/19/2022 8:57am
Update.. I called coppersmith ready to make a move and there is no longer a kit he sends. It all requires you to send your stuff in and jump through hoops. What was once 900 dollars is now 1600 dollars.

He priced himself right out of a sale. So that’s off the table. I was really excited about it. Dang.
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AZ_DEZ_RCR
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AZ_DEZ_RCR 9/19/2022 9:26am
9/19/2022 9:26am
I fought SFF air forks for a couple years on my '16 KX450, then I rode a WR450 that was set up by Stillwell. My pervious bikes all had KYB spring forks, but thought I'd give air forks a shot. I was coming off of ACL surgery when I bought the KX, and it took some time to get the feel back of not riding. During the stages of riding the new bike I kept losing the front end, crazy arm pump (I rarely get arm pump), and was fighting the bike. I thought it was just me getting back into riding, but after riding a bike with KYB's, I felt like I got my mojo back in one ride.

Fast forward, and doing more digging I talked to Johnny at the Ride Shop here in AZ, one of his recommendations was to go with SFF spring forks from a KX250. I was in the the same boat as you, and didn't want to spend a ton of money. I found a used set of SFF forks, they were sprung right for me, and the rider was similar to my speed for valving. The SFF spring forks were better than the SFF air fork in many ways, mostly in the chop, square edge. I ride off road 95% of the time, and off camber with chop was a nightmare with the air fork, but the SFF spring handled this much better. The turn tracks we use are rough with braking chop, with the air fork I couldn't charge into corners or I'd lose the front end, it wouldn't settle, but the SFF spring would allow me to charge into the corner and settle to allow the bike to turn. The air forks deflected bad on plant rocks also, the SFF spring was much better. I was happy that I switched to the SFF spring fork, and it did it's job for what I spent.

I sold the KX last year, and went full out on a Husky FE501 with Dal Soggio Sphere inserts, fork coatings, and MX Tech National shock. My confidence with the setup is through the roof, granted it was a lot of money, and hopefully I'll be able to transfer this setup to future bikes.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 10:00am
9/19/2022 10:00am
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with the bike. The conversation progressed and they were so confident with their SFF spring conversion that they made me an offer I cant refuse. I will install it and be sure to give a thorough review since there does not seem to be an abundance of them. I hope this doesnt end the thread though because I still want to hear more from people.
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GG121
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GG121 9/19/2022 10:01am
9/19/2022 10:01am
I haven't ridden it myself, but Factory Connection claims they have found really good settings on the stock forks. Zach Osbourne did a lot of testing with them to develop the fork. Plessinger also ran the last few rounds outdoors on the stock fork (not tuned by FC just shows it has potential). You should give them a call
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soggy
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soggy 9/19/2022 10:05am
9/19/2022 10:05am
R VanKamp77 wrote:
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with...
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with the bike. The conversation progressed and they were so confident with their SFF spring conversion that they made me an offer I cant refuse. I will install it and be sure to give a thorough review since there does not seem to be an abundance of them. I hope this doesnt end the thread though because I still want to hear more from people.
What SFF kit?
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 10:45am
9/19/2022 10:45am Edited Date/Time 9/19/2022 10:46am
R VanKamp77 wrote:
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with...
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with the bike. The conversation progressed and they were so confident with their SFF spring conversion that they made me an offer I cant refuse. I will install it and be sure to give a thorough review since there does not seem to be an abundance of them. I hope this doesnt end the thread though because I still want to hear more from people.
soggy wrote:
What SFF kit?
The k tech with the bottoming cones (ORSS2). We shall see!

Also not sure why people are downvoting my posts saying thanks for the help lol😂😂
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thorns
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thorns 9/19/2022 12:16pm
9/19/2022 12:16pm
Be interested to hear your feedback. So far I don't have any issues with the air fork on my 22 FC250 (fresh back from a few years off riding) however love to tinker and play round with things so no doubt will be 'needing' some new goodies for the bike in the near future.

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captmoto
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captmoto 9/19/2022 2:12pm
9/19/2022 2:12pm
R VanKamp77 wrote:
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with...
So based on Hammer663 recommendation I ended up on the phone with ProTune. We started talking about the luckies and all the symptoms I had with the bike. The conversation progressed and they were so confident with their SFF spring conversion that they made me an offer I cant refuse. I will install it and be sure to give a thorough review since there does not seem to be an abundance of them. I hope this doesnt end the thread though because I still want to hear more from people.
Since you got a good deal from Pro Tune I'll think you'll be happy. I did the Race Tech conversion and am very happy with it. Chop in braking bumps is night and day better but I am on the first gen AER so almost anything would have been better. I don't have a bottoming cone so it will be nice to hear what you find with your set up.
Good luck.
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MKMX
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MKMX 9/19/2022 2:38pm
9/19/2022 2:38pm
I have a ‘21 350 and used an Australian suspension company Krooztune’s spring conversion and mid speed valve kit (similar to a showa setup) and it made a world of difference for me. Plenty more hold up in the front, compliant, plush and consistent through a moto. 220#/6’2” and ride intermediate MX.

I have had CV’s previously and though they were damn good, they went to waste as I couldn’t use them to their full potential.
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swordfish
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swordfish 9/19/2022 2:48pm
9/19/2022 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2022 2:49pm
swordfish wrote:
Don’t waste your time with the air/spring partial kits. Go full spring carts. Lots of lightly used ones come up all the time. WP6500, MXT Luckies...
Don’t waste your time with the air/spring partial kits. Go full spring carts. Lots of lightly used ones come up all the time. WP6500, MXT Luckies, Del Soggio etc. my brand new Luckies were $1000 set up from Corey at Protune. Install is easy.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Same thing I asked finne, why don't you like the single side kits? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I've yet to hear anyone give...
Same thing I asked finne, why don't you like the single side kits? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I've yet to hear anyone give a technical explanation as to why and how they're bad. Not one answer in one thread.

At this point I am leaning towards a dual cartridge kit but I do not want to rule this option out either.

Addition: The luckies drop right in in the garage right? When you order them, the suspension supplier of choice (I would do protune or JBI) valves it for you? If I'm wrong please tell me a little more about the process. I would probably do the luckies today for 1000 since I've heard such great things.
Single sided kits, or at least the ones that I tried still don’t give you the comfort and plushness on square edge and trail trash. They also don’t give you the planted feel and grip on the front end. That’s just my experience.
Protune will valve to your specs for the cost of the inserts. Install is easy and on 21 + XACT you don’t need to remove lugs.
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swordfish
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swordfish 9/19/2022 2:53pm
9/19/2022 2:53pm
swordfish wrote:
Don’t waste your time with the air/spring partial kits. Go full spring carts. Lots of lightly used ones come up all the time. WP6500, MXT Luckies...
Don’t waste your time with the air/spring partial kits. Go full spring carts. Lots of lightly used ones come up all the time. WP6500, MXT Luckies, Del Soggio etc. my brand new Luckies were $1000 set up from Corey at Protune. Install is easy.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Same thing I asked finne, why don't you like the single side kits? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I've yet to hear anyone give...
Same thing I asked finne, why don't you like the single side kits? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I've yet to hear anyone give a technical explanation as to why and how they're bad. Not one answer in one thread.

At this point I am leaning towards a dual cartridge kit but I do not want to rule this option out either.

Addition: The luckies drop right in in the garage right? When you order them, the suspension supplier of choice (I would do protune or JBI) valves it for you? If I'm wrong please tell me a little more about the process. I would probably do the luckies today for 1000 since I've heard such great things.
I’ve heard the Coppersmith set up is good, I have not tried myself.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 6:42pm
9/19/2022 6:42pm
MKMX wrote:
I have a ‘21 350 and used an Australian suspension company Krooztune’s spring conversion and mid speed valve kit (similar to a showa setup) and it...
I have a ‘21 350 and used an Australian suspension company Krooztune’s spring conversion and mid speed valve kit (similar to a showa setup) and it made a world of difference for me. Plenty more hold up in the front, compliant, plush and consistent through a moto. 220#/6’2” and ride intermediate MX.

I have had CV’s previously and though they were damn good, they went to waste as I couldn’t use them to their full potential.
That is very encouraging because I have a midvalve kit as well from JBI and it feels awesome so I’m starting to get prettttyyyy excited. I’m sure the cones felt awesome but the cost probably didn’t feel so awesome hahaha. I’ll for sure report back and update this.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/19/2022 6:43pm
9/19/2022 6:43pm
swordfish wrote:
Don’t waste your time with the air/spring partial kits. Go full spring carts. Lots of lightly used ones come up all the time. WP6500, MXT Luckies...
Don’t waste your time with the air/spring partial kits. Go full spring carts. Lots of lightly used ones come up all the time. WP6500, MXT Luckies, Del Soggio etc. my brand new Luckies were $1000 set up from Corey at Protune. Install is easy.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Same thing I asked finne, why don't you like the single side kits? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I've yet to hear anyone give...
Same thing I asked finne, why don't you like the single side kits? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I've yet to hear anyone give a technical explanation as to why and how they're bad. Not one answer in one thread.

At this point I am leaning towards a dual cartridge kit but I do not want to rule this option out either.

Addition: The luckies drop right in in the garage right? When you order them, the suspension supplier of choice (I would do protune or JBI) valves it for you? If I'm wrong please tell me a little more about the process. I would probably do the luckies today for 1000 since I've heard such great things.
swordfish wrote:
Single sided kits, or at least the ones that I tried still don’t give you the comfort and plushness on square edge and trail trash. They...
Single sided kits, or at least the ones that I tried still don’t give you the comfort and plushness on square edge and trail trash. They also don’t give you the planted feel and grip on the front end. That’s just my experience.
Protune will valve to your specs for the cost of the inserts. Install is easy and on 21 + XACT you don’t need to remove lugs.
I still may end up on the luckies. We’ll see how the SFF feels first. I can’t wait to put them through the ringer
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Gravel
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Gravel 9/19/2022 8:20pm
9/19/2022 8:20pm
I bought my KTM with Dal Soggio inserts, it’s working about as good as anything I’ve ever ridden. The only thing that might have been better was Precision Concepts KYBs on a YZ450, but it had flex bars and the bars were probably the difference.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/20/2022 5:39am
9/20/2022 5:39am
Gravel wrote:
I bought my KTM with Dal Soggio inserts, it’s working about as good as anything I’ve ever ridden. The only thing that might have been better...
I bought my KTM with Dal Soggio inserts, it’s working about as good as anything I’ve ever ridden. The only thing that might have been better was Precision Concepts KYBs on a YZ450, but it had flex bars and the bars were probably the difference.
Fasst or twisted? I've been thinking about getting the twisted bars but... you shouldnt need them. The bike should just be suspended properly.

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TJMX947
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TJMX947 9/20/2022 11:30am
9/20/2022 11:30am
I have a 2017 KTM 350 with a Ktech conversion and 2023 KTM 350 that is stock so far.

I'm going to get a new Ktech conversion for the 2023 because I can't afford the KYB.

I will say, even with a properly valved fork with the Ktech conversion I preferred the feel of my buddy's STOCK 2022 YZ450F fork. Keefer also mentions that the KYB converted WP fork compared to YZ fork won't feel the same.

If I was a 450 guy I would 100% ride a Yamaha. Since I love the 350 I'm stuck riding an Austrian brand.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/20/2022 11:48am
9/20/2022 11:48am
TJMX947 wrote:
I have a 2017 KTM 350 with a Ktech conversion and 2023 KTM 350 that is stock so far. I'm going to get a new Ktech...
I have a 2017 KTM 350 with a Ktech conversion and 2023 KTM 350 that is stock so far.

I'm going to get a new Ktech conversion for the 2023 because I can't afford the KYB.

I will say, even with a properly valved fork with the Ktech conversion I preferred the feel of my buddy's STOCK 2022 YZ450F fork. Keefer also mentions that the KYB converted WP fork compared to YZ fork won't feel the same.

If I was a 450 guy I would 100% ride a Yamaha. Since I love the 350 I'm stuck riding an Austrian brand.
exact same boat as you. I want the 350, I want the austrian handling, and I want the Yamaha suspension. Only one of those things can be remedied with a some dollars... the suspension.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/20/2022 11:52am
9/20/2022 11:52am
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider not to run a system with so little bottoming control as it can be sort of dangerous.

I'll never buy another austrian bike unless it comes with spring forks. What a racket. Bet it rides great now though. Thanks for the help everyone.
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swordfish
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swordfish 9/20/2022 12:08pm
9/20/2022 12:08pm
R VanKamp77 wrote:
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider...
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider not to run a system with so little bottoming control as it can be sort of dangerous.

I'll never buy another austrian bike unless it comes with spring forks. What a racket. Bet it rides great now though. Thanks for the help everyone.
Who told you that?
What’s the issue with bottoming with the XACT fork?
I actually didn’t have an issue with the 21 + XACT for MX if the track wasn’t super rough with a ton of square edge and bad braking bumps. On fairly smooth tracks it worked fine.
TJMX947
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TJMX947 9/20/2022 12:09pm
9/20/2022 12:09pm
R VanKamp77 wrote:
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider...
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider not to run a system with so little bottoming control as it can be sort of dangerous.

I'll never buy another austrian bike unless it comes with spring forks. What a racket. Bet it rides great now though. Thanks for the help everyone.
Are you doing the install yourself? Are you going to use the WP customer valving setup? Total Control will do the WP/SSS conversion for $1800 OTD. I thought the 6500 insert is in the neighborhood of $1300-1400, if you have to pay for a rebuild on top I figure that couple of hundred $$$ might not be as big of a deal as you thought. Food for thought, good luck though!
Rickyisms 9/20/2022 12:11pm
9/20/2022 12:11pm
I know a lot of fast dudes who have no problems with any of the popular SFF kit. K-tech seems to be the most popular, seen plenty of them bottom their stuff and rode out just fine with no complaints.
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TJMX947
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TJMX947 9/20/2022 12:13pm
9/20/2022 12:13pm
Dhallmark wrote:
Factory Connection did a kit like this for me along with revalve front and rear that is really close to your budget. I now ride and...
Factory Connection did a kit like this for me along with revalve front and rear that is really close to your budget. I now ride and don’t think about suspension, likely your best option.
That price is surprising to me.

I had a 2021 YZ250F that I got a quote from Factory Connection to revalve/spring and they quoted me like $1500. "I'm like WTF for???" I assumed if you throw a coil spring cartridge on top of that it would be over $2k.


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swordfish
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swordfish 9/20/2022 12:13pm
9/20/2022 12:13pm
R VanKamp77 wrote:
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider...
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider not to run a system with so little bottoming control as it can be sort of dangerous.

I'll never buy another austrian bike unless it comes with spring forks. What a racket. Bet it rides great now though. Thanks for the help everyone.
TJMX947 wrote:
Are you doing the install yourself? Are you going to use the WP customer valving setup? Total Control will do the WP/SSS conversion for $1800 OTD...
Are you doing the install yourself? Are you going to use the WP customer valving setup? Total Control will do the WP/SSS conversion for $1800 OTD. I thought the 6500 insert is in the neighborhood of $1300-1400, if you have to pay for a rebuild on top I figure that couple of hundred $$$ might not be as big of a deal as you thought. Food for thought, good luck though!
They are $1299 but do not include springs.
I know Protune includes setting them up for you at that price.
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/20/2022 1:04pm
9/20/2022 1:04pm
R VanKamp77 wrote:
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider...
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider not to run a system with so little bottoming control as it can be sort of dangerous.

I'll never buy another austrian bike unless it comes with spring forks. What a racket. Bet it rides great now though. Thanks for the help everyone.
swordfish wrote:
Who told you that? What’s the issue with bottoming with the XACT fork? I actually didn’t have an issue with the 21 + XACT for MX...
Who told you that?
What’s the issue with bottoming with the XACT fork?
I actually didn’t have an issue with the 21 + XACT for MX if the track wasn’t super rough with a ton of square edge and bad braking bumps. On fairly smooth tracks it worked fine.
The air fork ramps up in pressure significantly as the stroke deepens which acts as an anti bottoming mechanism along with the damping leg. When you remove this with a coil spring kit, you are removing alot of the damping forces available and open yourself up to some potentially bad situations.

I like the Xact air setup I have if it werent for the piss tier initial stroke performance.
R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 9/20/2022 1:07pm
9/20/2022 1:07pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I know a lot of fast dudes who have no problems with any of the popular SFF kit. K-tech seems to be the most popular, seen...
I know a lot of fast dudes who have no problems with any of the popular SFF kit. K-tech seems to be the most popular, seen plenty of them bottom their stuff and rode out just fine with no complaints.
You might think this is total BS, but I'm from Florida now in the midsouth region, casing a jump here versus back home at like orlando mx, 100000% different story.

OI really wanted the single side, but I want to buy once and cry once. I'm tired of leaving the track frustrated.
swordfish
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swordfish 9/20/2022 1:21pm
9/20/2022 1:21pm
R VanKamp77 wrote:
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider...
After a follow up talk today, I went with the WP6500 inserts to go dual spring. I was advised strongly as a faster and heavier rider not to run a system with so little bottoming control as it can be sort of dangerous.

I'll never buy another austrian bike unless it comes with spring forks. What a racket. Bet it rides great now though. Thanks for the help everyone.
swordfish wrote:
Who told you that? What’s the issue with bottoming with the XACT fork? I actually didn’t have an issue with the 21 + XACT for MX...
Who told you that?
What’s the issue with bottoming with the XACT fork?
I actually didn’t have an issue with the 21 + XACT for MX if the track wasn’t super rough with a ton of square edge and bad braking bumps. On fairly smooth tracks it worked fine.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
The air fork ramps up in pressure significantly as the stroke deepens which acts as an anti bottoming mechanism along with the damping leg. When you...
The air fork ramps up in pressure significantly as the stroke deepens which acts as an anti bottoming mechanism along with the damping leg. When you remove this with a coil spring kit, you are removing alot of the damping forces available and open yourself up to some potentially bad situations.

I like the Xact air setup I have if it werent for the piss tier initial stroke performance.
I misunderstood you, I was talking stock XACT.
Gravel
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Gravel 9/20/2022 1:26pm
9/20/2022 1:26pm Edited Date/Time 9/20/2022 1:27pm
Gravel wrote:
I bought my KTM with Dal Soggio inserts, it’s working about as good as anything I’ve ever ridden. The only thing that might have been better...
I bought my KTM with Dal Soggio inserts, it’s working about as good as anything I’ve ever ridden. The only thing that might have been better was Precision Concepts KYBs on a YZ450, but it had flex bars and the bars were probably the difference.
R VanKamp77 wrote:
Fasst or twisted? I've been thinking about getting the twisted bars but... you shouldnt need them. The bike should just be suspended properly.
Fasst, I think. The bars with pivot points and elastomers, not the carbon bars. I don’t think they’re worth the price, although they are definitely noticeable at adding insulation from small chop.

The Dal Soggio spring conversion inserts are great though!
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