#7: MXGP of Italy - May 7-8

mxxxeR1
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5/10/2022 5:58am
mxxxeR1 wrote:
Maybe it would be a good thing to obligo the top 5 of the final standings to promote to the wk mx2... then you prevent them...
Maybe it would be a good thing to obligo the top 5 of the final standings to promote to the wk mx2... then you prevent them from staying in the emx 250 for years..
DeStouwer wrote:
That's what usually happens anyway, so no reason to make a rule of.
I don’t know if that happens normally...Rick Elzinga was in 2019....10 in the final score...and won last year ... and is still in the emx after 4 years
roninho
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5/10/2022 6:20am
mxxxeR1 wrote:
I don’t know if that happens normally...Rick Elzinga was in 2019....10 in the final score...and won last year ... and is still in the emx after...
I don’t know if that happens normally...Rick Elzinga was in 2019....10 in the final score...and won last year ... and is still in the emx after 4 years
There will always be some riders from the top in the standings staying in the classe because there are some factory supported rides available, which beats having an ok ride in MX2. Which isnt bad for EMX250 to be honest, it makes for a good reference if you have some winners staying in the class.

Imo it's more a question how you make MX2 more attractive for guys like Talviku (5th in 2020) who doesn't have such a ride and still prefers emx250 over mx2.
DeStouwer
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5/10/2022 6:35am
mxxxeR1 wrote:
Maybe it would be a good thing to obligo the top 5 of the final standings to promote to the wk mx2... then you prevent them...
Maybe it would be a good thing to obligo the top 5 of the final standings to promote to the wk mx2... then you prevent them from staying in the emx 250 for years..
DeStouwer wrote:
That's what usually happens anyway, so no reason to make a rule of.
mxxxeR1 wrote:
I don’t know if that happens normally...Rick Elzinga was in 2019....10 in the final score...and won last year ... and is still in the emx after...
I don’t know if that happens normally...Rick Elzinga was in 2019....10 in the final score...and won last year ... and is still in the emx after 4 years
There are always some exceptions, but most of the riders of the top 10 move to MX2 (or to MXGP like last season's champion Lapucci did, Elzinga was third in the final standings).

Of the 2021 EMX250 top 10, Lapucci, Horgmo, Fredriksen, Everts, and Weckman left the class. So did Sydow, who was 14th (but both Horgmo and Sydow have raced MX2 fulltime before).

From the 2020 season, Benistant, Guadagnini, De Wolf, Locurcio, Bøgh Damm and Facchetti made the step towards MX2 in 2021.

And so on...
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Snapper
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5/10/2022 6:47am
Could they put the top 10 qualifiers from EMX250 in with the MX2 races and score them separately?

Not sure if that's the answer but something needs to happen pretty quickly otherwise we'll soon be down to less than 20 per class.

The Shop

Motofinne
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5/10/2022 11:06am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2022 12:36pm
The quick fix is either raise the MX2 age limit to 25 or drop the EMX250 age limit to 21.

But that doesn't fix the underlying issue that MX2 is too expensive and it's too difficult to find funding for it compared to EMX250. That has created a really strong EMX250 class and made it even worse when smaller European sponsors can pay less into the EMX class and yet get roughly the same coverage. They don't care about potential eyeballs in Asia, Middle East or South America that a MX2 rider can get.

And then we have people like Lewis Phillips trying to plant a taught that people are sandbagging in EMX250 and the fix is to get rid of it altogether, which is such a flawed idea in my opinion. I love MX Vice and what Lewis does but man he has gone nuts with his ideas lately, maybe he would do all an favor if he focuses on USA full time instead of trying to tear down the foundations of the great system that has been developed in the GPs through the last decade or two Grinning Nobody is wanting to stay in EMX250, everyone wants and aims to race MX2 if they get the chance to do it. But they don't largely because of the reason above. Getting rid of EMX250 is like sweeping the dust under the carpet when your mom tells you to vacuum the house, it doesn't fix the root cause to the problems in any way. And doing selected MX2 rounds isn't a good option. You're instantly on the backfoot compared to the other riders that started the season at rd1.

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5/10/2022 10:59pm
They've essentially split mx2 in half or slower 60% in emx250 and faster in mx2. I think they should get rid of 23 rule in mx2 and cap emx250 at 18.
Definitely be better if all those 250Fs were trying to qualify for mx2 and earning a spot on the 40 rider gate was a big deal rather than buying a spot on a 25 rider gate.
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roninho
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5/11/2022 12:10am
No more age limit in mx2 and get rid of emx open.

Emx open leads to nothing and reduces the field of mxgp.
The afe limit is stupid anyway.

Have emx open guys like butron, tropepe, sandner, van berkel etc ride some wildcards at gp's they are good at and fill the field in mxgp.
And have mxgp guys like Sterry consider if they should rejoin mx2.


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DeStouwer
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5/11/2022 1:52am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 2:02am
roninho wrote:
No more age limit in mx2 and get rid of emx open. Emx open leads to nothing and reduces the field of mxgp. The afe limit...
No more age limit in mx2 and get rid of emx open.

Emx open leads to nothing and reduces the field of mxgp.
The afe limit is stupid anyway.

Have emx open guys like butron, tropepe, sandner, van berkel etc ride some wildcards at gp's they are good at and fill the field in mxgp.
And have mxgp guys like Sterry consider if they should rejoin mx2.


Sorry, but tell me which guys of EMXOpen do you see capable of getting points in MXGP? Let alone being able to aim for a top 15 on a regular basis?

Butrón has showed the last few seasons why he has no place in MXGP anymore. His last decent season was 2018 with a 13-12 as a best result in Latvia. Before that season he could count on his good starts, but he's lost them aswell.

Sandner and Tropepe could do decent on a wildcard-based principle, but a complete season? They never were consistent enough in the past, neither in MXGP or MX2.

Belgian Jens Getteman for example: he showed up in 2 of the 4 rounds, getting 9-8-10-9 results. He's 12th in the standings now. He's a decent racer, but he never got any remarkable results in MXGP or MX2 and never reached the top 10. The last time he had a go full time was 2013 I think.

If guys like Kohút, Ivanov, Jošt and Croci are in the top 10 standings, you know the level of that class is poor. The difference between MXGP-MX2 and EMXOpen is way too big. Ask Jimmy Clochet.
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roninho
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5/11/2022 3:51am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 3:53am
Where did i say that these guys would become regular top 15 guys? Or that they will go full time?

The discussion is about how to get decent size fields in GP's, as in like we had long time ago with 40 riders lining up.

Reality is that if you want more guys lining up that it will be riders who will fill up midpack and back of the field. Except for maybe 5 emx250 riders who would be consistent top 15 guys in MX2 (and i question if it will be 5).

Guys like Butron, Tropepe, sandner, etc. will fight for a point at the tracks that suit them, it's not like they will be what we have in MX2 with guys like vd Auware en Lambillon being 5+ seconds slower then the guys at the back (!)





DeStouwer
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5/11/2022 4:24am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 5:47am
roninho wrote:
Where did i say that these guys would become regular top 15 guys? Or that they will go full time? The discussion is about how to...
Where did i say that these guys would become regular top 15 guys? Or that they will go full time?

The discussion is about how to get decent size fields in GP's, as in like we had long time ago with 40 riders lining up.

Reality is that if you want more guys lining up that it will be riders who will fill up midpack and back of the field. Except for maybe 5 emx250 riders who would be consistent top 15 guys in MX2 (and i question if it will be 5).

Guys like Butron, Tropepe, sandner, etc. will fight for a point at the tracks that suit them, it's not like they will be what we have in MX2 with guys like vd Auware en Lambillon being 5+ seconds slower then the guys at the back (!)





Because to me that seems to be the goal of any rider in a world championship. Or at least, it should be. To be capable of scoring points on a regular basis.

To "get a decent field" should be about quality, not quantity because you like a field of 30 riders more as 25, no matter the level of those extra riders. Again, every single rider of EMXOpen has no place (anymore) in MXGP-class. Maybe Sandner does, but it's clear after all those years of wildcards and fill-in rides he doesn't have the resources to do it as a privateer and he simply isn't good enough for a factory ride.

And about Vander Auwera and Lambillon: those are just kids with rich dads who want to say to their friends "they're full-time GP-riders". They're just a disgrace for the sport.
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