Posts
1166
Joined
11/14/2008
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Edited Date/Time
2/15/2022 11:16am
I missed going to Glendale SX because of this back pain!
I'm desperate here, hence me posting online for medical advice (I know, I know...).
I'm currently stuck in the rigamarole of getting in to see a specialist after my GP said his findings were "inconclusive".
I'll post my xray below.
I am already a T4 paraplegic, with damage to my T4,5,6 vertebrae, now for 19 years. That's my relevant medical history in a nutshell.
Fast forward to the present. I woke up in the middle of the night with mid-to-low back pain, took some ibuprofen, and went back to sleep. Been in pain ever since. I'd even say it gotten worse over the course of 2 weeks.
The "pain" is below my injury level, so it's hard to communicate to a Dr that I feel this pain as a "3", but my body is telling me the pain is an 8+
My muscle spasms have been through the roof, and I have another symptom...my dick is getting hard and staying hard quite often. Yep, I said it, but I know that can be a sign of spinal trauma.
Additionally, I feel loose, I feel "crunchy", I feel very unstable in my lower back. This part freaks me out the most.
I get some relief laying on my back, with my legs elevated on a stack of pillows. I've been taking Ibuprofen, which barely takes the edge off.
Here is a diagram showing where and how I feel the pain. The pain is constant.
Pic of my xray:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9fimr6n6m5mup3/im000001.png
Thanks for reading. If you have any advice at all, I'm all ears. I'm 3 weeks in, with no improvement and I'm hitting dead ends with doctors.
I'm desperate here, hence me posting online for medical advice (I know, I know...).
I'm currently stuck in the rigamarole of getting in to see a specialist after my GP said his findings were "inconclusive".
I'll post my xray below.
I am already a T4 paraplegic, with damage to my T4,5,6 vertebrae, now for 19 years. That's my relevant medical history in a nutshell.
Fast forward to the present. I woke up in the middle of the night with mid-to-low back pain, took some ibuprofen, and went back to sleep. Been in pain ever since. I'd even say it gotten worse over the course of 2 weeks.
The "pain" is below my injury level, so it's hard to communicate to a Dr that I feel this pain as a "3", but my body is telling me the pain is an 8+
My muscle spasms have been through the roof, and I have another symptom...my dick is getting hard and staying hard quite often. Yep, I said it, but I know that can be a sign of spinal trauma.
Additionally, I feel loose, I feel "crunchy", I feel very unstable in my lower back. This part freaks me out the most.
I get some relief laying on my back, with my legs elevated on a stack of pillows. I've been taking Ibuprofen, which barely takes the edge off.
Here is a diagram showing where and how I feel the pain. The pain is constant.
Pic of my xray:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9fimr6n6m5mup3/im000001.png
Thanks for reading. If you have any advice at all, I'm all ears. I'm 3 weeks in, with no improvement and I'm hitting dead ends with doctors.
I wish you all the best going forward.
Are you on any kind of medication to help with pain management at all or just over the counter stuff when pain strikes you? I'd get a prescription as a last resort. I was on Hydromorphone for years and it helped. That shit is strong, so I'd be careful with it.
I've had back pain that turned out to be kidney related, so you might want to get checked for that. It can get dangerous if left untreated.
When's the last time you had your chair looked at? Are you do for a new cushion and or backrest? Maybe see an Occupational Therapist?
I'm on baclofen to help with my spasms and I find it helps quite a bit. Stretching also helps.
I have no idea what kind of physical shape you're in, but I found that losing weight helped with my back pain.
Your dick works, so that's good.
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I take zero meds, and I'm pretty tight with my urologist...I have good history there. Just before this in mid January I had a urodynamics test done and took a course of antibiotics. I don't suspect any kidney infection l, but that is a good suggestion.
I do have baclofen left over from a decade old prescription. I thought about taking it but I did nothing before. I know side effects are low with that drug, so I'll give it a shot.
My chair and seating does need re-evaluated for sure. I'm back in my 15 year old "skinny chair" because I have lost a lot of weight the past 2 years. I sit on a low profile RoHo cushion and TopEnd Terminator chair.
I had been stretching and focusing on my health. I've made big gains in range of motion and strength, as well as losing weight. I've been in this mode for about a year, so I kinda ruled out injury as a result of recent activity.
Such is the paradox. I need to move to heal, but I can't move.
Bad posture, seating cushion, etc. could be a contributing factor in your back pain, especially if it hasn't been assessed in a very long time. I'd see an Occupational Therapist for good measure.
I'm in a TiLite ZRA with a Varilite Evolution Wave cushion. No issue with either of them.
What kind of mattress are you using? Just a regular mattress or an air filled mattress? Might need to adjust/fill it with air? Maybe in need of a new mattress?
Have you seen your neurosurgeon/specialist recently? I need to see mine every year in order to keep on top of things. I saw her last year and she sent me for a bunch of x-rays. I have more tests to do before seeing her again this year. Pain in the ass, but better to be safe than sorry.
Maybe hardware related, but judging from the xray it looks like yours was taken out?
There's other SCI members on here, maybe they'll chime in. That's pretty much all I can think of at the moment.
AD is something I'm very familiar with, but I don't experience it often. I am almost 38 years old. My blood pressure is good 110/70
Bowel and bladder is status quo for me.
The link to the xray seems to be broken if you click it, but if you copy/paste it seems to a work.
The day of my discharge my Nero doc was killed in a plane crash (Dr. Cahill)
I havnt seen a neurologist since 2003.
Until now, I havnt had any issues with my back. Plenty of other medical issues over the years, but none like this with the recent back pain.
My spasms sound just like yours, especially since I had been more routine in my stretching. They only really flair up if I sit still too long (like on Road trips and plane flights).
I spoke to someone at Barrow Spine center here in Phoenix. I need to have my GP order an MRI before Barrow will even schedule me an appointment, and right now they don't have any openings until March!
It's all very frustrating.
Pretty sure you need to get to the bottom of this. You are in pain, Having some changes and a general sense of foreboding.
As difficult as it sounds I would recommend you don't wait on this. Perhaps going to an ER makes the most sense instead of waiting on an outpatient appt to see a specialist and then maybe more outpatient films, getting generally jerked around by the medical system. I know it sucks no one wants to completely disrupt their own status quo but that ship has sailed anyway. Not feeling well combined with existing mobility difficulties buys you an admission until at minimal life threatening conditions are ruled out
In the meantime do not risk your health, all the while dealing with discomfort. Given your condition, this makes the most sense. Get in there and don't leave until you get some answers and see a neurological specialist familiar with SCI.
I would say go to a larger facility. I see you are in phoenix, looks like St Josephs University hospital barrows neurological institute is there. Gonna assume you have lived there for a while so if you have another facility you are comfortable with go there. Better to go early get cleared than wait until something minor becomes something major.
Edit. read your post above after I was done with this. Yep figures wait for this wait for that, etc. show up at the ER and things all of a sudden change.
I have come to the conclusion that lower back is one of those areas where modern medicine is not so modern. They just started trying shit to see if it would work. WTF? How about finding out what's wrong and then KNOWING what to do? I'm really frustrated and disappointed right now. I'm also hoping that somebody else on here might have an answer. It sounds kind of lame to seek medical advice from an MX board but actually it's not. Lot of dudes with back injury experience on here. They will respond.
So what can be done about it. Really depends. In the past often times surgeons were reluctant to perform any surgeries without some evidence of neurological deficits. Not sure if that is true today. Lots of advances made in recent years that are more common place.
Probably not telling you anything you don't already know but an insight into my thought process here.
That said, my advice. I would look into potential surgical procedures to fix/replace your disc dilemma, but before I did that I would try a conservative approach using a spinal decompression device. such as the teeter inversion table. I know someone who uses it every morning and loves it. Think they cost around $400 bucks though. But if it works great, If not sell it on craigslist whatever and consider it a loss.
The good news, your kidneys are beating,
Sounds like the facet joint degenerative changes and disc space narrowing at L4/5 is doing a number on the nerve exiting at that level. Do you favor bending to the left? Or sleep always on same side?
You're gonna be fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mjvuxiz80M
I sleep on both sides and flat on my back. Never on my stomach. Jesus no.
Thanks.
Don't know if this helps you or wvumounty but I have 2 pain scenarios. 1 is the pain that starts out dull and increases with activity. 2 is a really harsh and sharp pain that I get if I make the wrong move. Ibuprofen helps with 1 but not 2. Pain 1 is usually not more than 5. Pain 2 goes off the charts but completely stops once I correct my posture. Slouching while sitting then suddenly trying to get up does it every time. Hurts even typing it.
Again, thanks for you advice.
It does not seem that you subjectively notice any lower extremity symptoms but the doctor may evaluate you anyway objectively looking for changes in sensation reflexes muscle strength, size etc. They are trying to figure out if you have any nerve compression radiculopathy caused by the moderate neural foraminal stenosis seen on the MRI.
I think in your case going on 30 years? It is more important to know how things have changed recently say within the last few years or going back to just before you received epidurals injections etc.
Pit Row
My father-in-law had an inversion table, I tried it out and it felt so good just to hang and stretch everything out. Did that daily for a couple weeks and felt 100% normal again.
Probably not going to "cure" more serious back issues, but I don't see how it could hurt anyone either. Spinal compression happens to all of us as we get older, so to allow the discs to stretch back out somewhat would hopefully relieve some of the tension and inflammation that leads to chronic pain. And they are not that expensive (relative to medical costs in general). They fold up and can be stuck in a corner to not take up too much space when not needed.
Flasback to 2017, I was under the impression I had just some peripheral osteoarthritis, knees, ankles, hip, shoulders, just wear and tear stuff old injuries etc.
Well, it would come and go, got better took ibuprofen, aspirin, tylenol etc.
Then ,
I develop lower back pain. Never had it before. It was ridiculous, Sort of just resigned myself that I must have strained my back.
I am thinking possibly a disc herniation when it lasts a couple of weeks. Go buy a back brace, Eh not really helping.
Pull up an old ct scan I had the year before look at my lower vertebrae, thinking maybe the worst, like a Big C with metastatic lesions...........Hmmm lower back looks pretty darn good pretty much perfect, No wonder I pretty much never had back pains.
Pain then seems to be migrating, now it is upper back more than lower , my neck is tweaked. Did I sleep wrong?, damn my ankles hurt, even my feet, Am I going crazy? Why am I having trouble dealing with this?
Ok break out the old ankle braces, Pain is pretty intense I am taking OTC meds like candy, Ibuprofen maxed out, aspirin, Tylenol, was already on joint supplements.
One day driving home I notice my left hand is clicking.........Uh Oh.......What is going on?
At least my kidneys are beating. Any guesses?
To answer your question, things have gotten much worse in the last 3 to 4 years. Before that, I would have episodes that would last for 1 to 2 weeks then no pain for a year or more. Now, the pain is constant unless I medicate which I don't do unless I have to. I have to work now so I medicate.
When my pain doc was giving me injections to isolate the nerves, I felt great for about a week, but I never really tested it like I am now. Maybe I gave him erroneous information which is why the ablation and epidural had minimum effect.
Doesn't matter. He threw up his hands. The spine specialist has not contacted me yet.
Is this your specialty? You seem to know a lot.
I am now disabled with my own medical issues. I have something different, but overall I doubt the actual pathophysiology of my back pain stiffness, is all that much different. Been that way for about 4 years now this past thanksgiving.
Anyway most times, I am long winded. I ended up typing a much more concise answer to what I thought might help you and why and of course something else took my attention.
I swiped the wrong way and the browser skipped back. Hate when that happens.
backing up a bit. I know the ablation can work, along with the steroid injections. Both the steroid and ablation are often given along with lidocaine, just to cut down on the pain involved with the steroid and ablation.
In any event, Sometimes the ablation works, kill the nerve, kill the pain. However the nerves can often regenerate over time and it does nothing to help the underlying inflammation.
The MRI mentions an "active" Schmorl's node. To me this means that there is an active evolving inflammatory process ongoing. Think of it as the bone is remodeling in a way due to pressure from the disc. That is what they are seeing on the MRI.
Do they become inactive?, Not Sure. This might actually be somewhat positive.
Meaning that it is likely the source of or at least a source of your dull pain. Now not my specialty, but I do watch a lot medical drama's on Sling TV and my kidneys are still beating.
Perhaps this node will become, "inactive". Meaning the formation of the node, remodeling scarring of the bone. might stop.
So perhaps everything will help to some extent, with time, removing pressure, and inflammation.
So the conservative approach, Anti-inflammatory meds, Perhaps even a short course of oral steroids ie prednisone,
This is a difficult one because many doctors are hesitant. My issues were different auto immune related, and my GP, kinda said he saw enough and put me on them until I could get on other meds.
Injections, spinal decompression inversion device, avoiding pro inflammatory triggers, ( in other words, doc it hurts when I do this) ...Hmmm don't do that. Now with work depending on what you do, rest, avoiding triggers may not be possible.
With these changes/time you might find yourself back to your old baseline or better..
You are doing the meds, have done the injections, you may need it again. But you are not doing the decompression, inversion thing.
AZ35 above tried it and it helped. My thought is maybe it speeds healing decreases inflammation etc.
If the above doesn't work and I know how miserable back pain can be, then a surgical solutions become your only options. See your specialist doc whomever, you see, don't get too upset over their concerns regarding any other symptoms, numbness, tingling, weakness, pain, sensation type stuff.
They are just looking to see if you have something more serious neurological deficits that might make you a more emergent surgical candidate and is crucially important. There are many people who write off things as just back pain, take a pain pill 2 glasses of wine , whatever go to sleep and have serious sometime irreversible problems in the morning.
Take care guys good luck all.
I sometimes get nerve pain (below injury level) which is normally a sore arse, pain in my abdomen, burning lower legs or floating legs when in bed which doesn't sound too bad but it fucken sucks haha.. It's usually not too bad but sometimes it flares up and cause it's in my head nothing really fixes it.. Like you'd think getting off my arse would ease the pain but no it makes zero difference..
Aaaanyway I take Lyrica 75mg once a day and 150mg once a day, which really helps the nerve pain.. good thing about it it's not a opioid so you can up it if you're struggling.. I dunno how it all works over there though so it might be very expensive
Also Baclofen for my spasms
Multilevel cervical degenerative disc disease, most pronounced from C4
through C7 with disc height loss and endplate osteophyte formation as well
as uncovertebral hypertrophy and facet arthropathy. There is moderate
spinal canal and severe bilateral foraminal stenosis at C4-C5 and severe
spinal canal and bilateral foraminal stenosis at C5-C6.
L1-L2: Left asymmetrical bulge. Superimposed central protrusion measures 4 mm. Bilateral facet arthropathy and ligamentum
flavum hypertrophy. Moderate left spinal canal narrowing. Moderate left foraminal narrowing. Right foramen is intact.
L2-L3: Left asymmetrical bulge. Left facet arthropathy. Bilateral ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Moderate to severe left spinal canal
narrowing moderate left foraminal narrowing. Mild right foraminal narrowing.
L3-L4: Mild right asymmetrical bulge. Right facet arthropathy and ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Severe right foraminal narrowing.
Possible impingement on the right transiting nerve root. Mild left foraminal narrowing. Mild to moderate spinal canal narrowing.
L4-L5: Right asymmetrical bulge. Superimposed right central protrusion measures 4 mm. Bilateral facet arthropathy and ligamentum
flavum hypertrophy. Severe spinal canal narrowing. Severe right foraminal narrowing and right lateral recess narrowing. Moderate to
severe left foraminal and lateral recess narrowing.
L5-S1: Right asymmetric disc osteophyte complex. Bilateral facet arthropathy and ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Moderate to
severe spinal canal narrowing. Severe narrowing of both foramina and lateral recesses.
I had my eyes closed in pain for Anaheim 3 main events. Then I did my bowl care program and passed out. Came to the hospital and got xray, mri, and ct scan of my L spine and abdomen...all negative relating to back pain. BUT...
They found my appendix was about to blow! Went in for surgery an hour later to get that taken out.
Doc said it *could* be the cause of my back pain, but that doesnt seem to be any different yet this morning. I was told my appendix was "lower and deeper" than normal (I'm guessing because of lack of abdominal muscles, I'm just a bag of organs). Doc said that can cause the back muscles to be inflamed and spastic from the inside.
Listen to your body people!
No nausea, or pain. No change in bowel or bladder. Just my lower back pain (not typically a symptom).
I do have sensation below my SCI. I did not feel any pain in my abdomen, but I sure feel it now after surgery.
There is sort of a phenomenon called referred pain whereby pain from one area gets sort of confused with another. One way of explaining it in simplified form is that these pain signals enter the spine at some level. the brain interprets these signals. This why someone may experience arm, neck pain numbness, etc when they are actually having a heart attack. The brain has no reference for hey my heart hurts and interprets it as something else. Glad you got to the bottom of it. stay vigilant
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