Electric cars and pollution

CR500Rider
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CR500Rider 12/26/2014 12:55am
12/26/2014 12:55am Edited Date/Time 12/26/2014 12:59am
vanillaice782 wrote:
The point is that that emissions are generated when that electricity is produced. It may not come out of the cars tail pipe but it still...
The point is that that emissions are generated when that electricity is produced. It may not come out of the cars tail pipe but it still has to come from somewhere, thus defeating the purpose of the zero emissions car. It's actually pretty comical to think about. All that money that has been put into electric cars and it is at least just as bad as the petroleum emissions. Hilarious.
FYI, Those are cooling towers at a nuke plant. The only thing they are "emitting" is steam.

The Rock
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The Rock 12/26/2014 6:38am
12/26/2014 6:38am Edited Date/Time 12/26/2014 6:40am
Titan1 wrote:
I've got nothing against electric gas, or CNG cars, or goo ol' gas/diesel cars...I like them all. I'm only biased against the argument that electric cars...
I've got nothing against electric gas, or CNG cars, or goo ol' gas/diesel cars...I like them all.

I'm only biased against the argument that electric cars are "zero emissions"...its a full on lie. There is no such thing as "zero emissions"...every aspect of our modern, civilized, industrialized society pollutes. Every aspect.

So lets call a spade a spade...we humans are going to destroy the earth (unless 70% of the human population on earth is eliminated anyway). Essentially we are all on life support...so lets just do whatever it takes to make ourselves as comfortable as possible (a cheapest form of energy "morphine drip", if you will) so we can enjoy our lives until the end.

I met a man two months ago that has a solar recharging station for his Tesla.

Zero emissions?

EDIT: Nuclear power for cars? Yeah what could possible go wrong there?
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Hut
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Hut 12/26/2014 10:17am
12/26/2014 10:17am
The future is compact fusion reactors.
XXVoid MainXX
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XXVoid MainXX 12/26/2014 1:58pm
12/26/2014 1:58pm
the_wood109 wrote:
Speaking of solar. Have you seen the "solar freaking roadway video, and it's rebuttal? I thought it was common knowledge that energy to power electric cars...
Speaking of solar. Have you seen the "solar freaking roadway video, and it's rebuttal?

I thought it was common knowledge that energy to power electric cars has to come from somewhere, as in our existing infrastructure. While it's wrong to advertise electric cars as zero emission, I think the purpose was mainly to force fossil fuel companies into advancing technology.

Rebuttal to solar roadways:


Never heard of these solar roadways before but good video.

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Matt Fisher 12/28/2014 7:47pm
12/28/2014 7:47pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
And I'd say we are probably as close to zero emissions as currently possible on a large scale. Electricity obviously gets mixed, but I'd guess we...
And I'd say we are probably as close to zero emissions as currently possible on a large scale. Electricity obviously gets mixed, but I'd guess we are more than 90% hydro and those dams are already built so any co2 emissions used by them are probably constant, not too much variable per unit of energy created. So in effect, using more electricity from them would probably lower the emissions per unit produced. Couple that with the trend to charge cars overnight, usually during lower demand hours, and it's actually a near-perfect scenario here.

Our power rates are what makes the Tesla kind of a cool idea for us, but I know that if we do happen to choose to move south like we have been thinking, then the power cost advantage can flip dramatically. I need to make a career decision by July that'll probably decide if we pull the trigger on a Tesla or not.

borg wrote:
There's a "rub of the green" so to speak with electric rates that low. My room mate wants to install some solar panels. Again, he has...
There's a "rub of the green" so to speak with electric rates that low. My room mate wants to install some solar panels. Again, he has a built in advantage because I'm a construction guy. Anyway, he doesn't want the solar panels to charge his car, he wants them to offset the higher tier rates on the house meter. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The rate for charging his car is .11/kwh. The rate on the house meter starts at .15 and goes even higher. Where you live, nobody would be dumb enough to install solar panels to charge anything. Also, solar doesn't really afford any air quality issues over what you already have. Besides, do you guys ever get any sunshine? LOL.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Sunshine? Sort of..... Eastern Washington is basically a desert. For comparison, Norwalk CA averages 13.88 inches of annual rainfall. Wenatchee WA, where I live, averages 8.01...
Sunshine? Sort of.....

Eastern Washington is basically a desert. For comparison, Norwalk CA averages 13.88 inches of annual rainfall. Wenatchee WA, where I live, averages 8.01 inches. Phoenix gets more average annual rainfall than we do.

We get a little bit of sun, although our winters are definitely cold.
Cold is good for solar, the panels are less efficient when it's hot outside.
Shade, on the other hand, is the enemy of solar.

APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 12/28/2014 11:15pm
12/28/2014 11:15pm
borg wrote:
There's a "rub of the green" so to speak with electric rates that low. My room mate wants to install some solar panels. Again, he has...
There's a "rub of the green" so to speak with electric rates that low. My room mate wants to install some solar panels. Again, he has a built in advantage because I'm a construction guy. Anyway, he doesn't want the solar panels to charge his car, he wants them to offset the higher tier rates on the house meter. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The rate for charging his car is .11/kwh. The rate on the house meter starts at .15 and goes even higher. Where you live, nobody would be dumb enough to install solar panels to charge anything. Also, solar doesn't really afford any air quality issues over what you already have. Besides, do you guys ever get any sunshine? LOL.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Sunshine? Sort of..... Eastern Washington is basically a desert. For comparison, Norwalk CA averages 13.88 inches of annual rainfall. Wenatchee WA, where I live, averages 8.01...
Sunshine? Sort of.....

Eastern Washington is basically a desert. For comparison, Norwalk CA averages 13.88 inches of annual rainfall. Wenatchee WA, where I live, averages 8.01 inches. Phoenix gets more average annual rainfall than we do.

We get a little bit of sun, although our winters are definitely cold.
Matt Fisher wrote:
Cold is good for solar, the panels are less efficient when it's hot outside.
Shade, on the other hand, is the enemy of solar.

I'm not an expert on solar, but I've been told that solar can still work with significant cloud cover too.



As for the original topic of this thread, I don't remember if the analysis included the emissions generated from refining petroleum into gasoline.
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One Last Comeback 12/29/2014 6:43am
12/29/2014 6:43am
The intermittent problems of solar and wind will be greatly alleviated by energy storage (batteries), which is coming on strong. Then you will be able to charge by day using solar panels and use it at night.

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borg
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borg 12/29/2014 7:20am
12/29/2014 7:20am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'm not an expert on solar, but I've been told that solar can still work with significant cloud cover too. As for the original topic of...
I'm not an expert on solar, but I've been told that solar can still work with significant cloud cover too.



As for the original topic of this thread, I don't remember if the analysis included the emissions generated from refining petroleum into gasoline.
Cloud density is the biggest factor. Thin light clouds have little effect, thick deep clouds can reduce the output by as much as 90%.

As to refinery emissions, it would certainly be fair to include that in the study. I don't know if the study that was referred to in the link did. The purpose of the article and my reason for posting it however, was to point out that electric cars are not zero emission.
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borg
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borg 12/29/2014 7:33am
12/29/2014 7:33am
One Last Comeback wrote:
The intermittent problems of solar and wind will be greatly alleviated by energy storage (batteries), which is coming on strong. Then you will be able to...
The intermittent problems of solar and wind will be greatly alleviated by energy storage (batteries), which is coming on strong. Then you will be able to charge by day using solar panels and use it at night.

At least for residential applications, batteries are not the way to go unless you want to be totally off grid. In SoCal, we have what's called net metering. The excess electricity you produce during the day is sold back to the utility at full retail price. If you live in a sunny area and do a good job at conserving, you can have a zero electric bill without the batteries. If you want to be off grid then yes, you have to have batteries.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 12/29/2014 8:30am
12/29/2014 8:30am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'm not an expert on solar, but I've been told that solar can still work with significant cloud cover too. As for the original topic of...
I'm not an expert on solar, but I've been told that solar can still work with significant cloud cover too.



As for the original topic of this thread, I don't remember if the analysis included the emissions generated from refining petroleum into gasoline.
borg wrote:
Cloud density is the biggest factor. Thin light clouds have little effect, thick deep clouds can reduce the output by as much as 90%. As to...
Cloud density is the biggest factor. Thin light clouds have little effect, thick deep clouds can reduce the output by as much as 90%.

As to refinery emissions, it would certainly be fair to include that in the study. I don't know if the study that was referred to in the link did. The purpose of the article and my reason for posting it however, was to point out that electric cars are not zero emission.
I understand the purpose for the article and posting, just don't agree with the premise itself.

The cars themselves are zero emissions. The manufacturing pricy and the energy process used to charge the batteries may not be, but that doesn't change the fact that the cars themselves are zero emissions.

The emissions from energy production itself can obviously vary widely by area. As I pointed out, the juice running through our wires is pretty clean compared to an area that needs to burn coal for electricity.

The emissions produced in refining gasoline are pretty significant, but the author doesn't ever mention that so it appears that he's only measuring emissions from the tail pipe of the combustion engine vehicle, yet wants to go back to trace every step of energy production in the EV. That makes the issue look a lot more agenda-based, rather than a true, honest comparison.
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Matt Fisher 12/29/2014 9:20am
12/29/2014 9:20am
Nothing is zero emissions of some type. Heck the solar panels I sell "emitted" some amount of emissions while they were being manufactured, shipped, etc. Long term it's a pittance compared to most forms of energy production, but it's there nonetheless.

The popularity of battery storage systems will depend almost entirely on what local power companies do. If they jack the rates way up and go to time of use billing, batteries will increase in popularity. In today's market, they aren't really cost effective. The same could be said of solar systems several years ago. The cost of the systems vs the cost to just buy power from the grid didn't make sense. A combination of more efficient panels, lower cost of the system and rising utility costs have made it a great option for some consumers.

Electric cars are the future. What we use to charge them is the question, imo.
mxracer816
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mxracer816 4/9/2021 5:21am
4/9/2021 5:21am
My biggest concern is how much more electricity is going to be consumed when every house in America along with every business has multiple cars charging every evening? We already have rolling blackouts in some of the more densely populated areas now, imagine a 500% spike in usage during peak periods. No way the current grid can carry the energy as it stands today. What size and what material is capable of carrying those large amounts of electricity that can be replaced affordably in the same ROW's that the current electricity grid operates on now. Still seems like a pipe dream to me. Doable, but impossible within 10 years IMO.
Dirtydeeds 4/9/2021 12:11pm
4/9/2021 12:11pm
mxracer816 wrote:
My biggest concern is how much more electricity is going to be consumed when every house in America along with every business has multiple cars charging...
My biggest concern is how much more electricity is going to be consumed when every house in America along with every business has multiple cars charging every evening? We already have rolling blackouts in some of the more densely populated areas now, imagine a 500% spike in usage during peak periods. No way the current grid can carry the energy as it stands today. What size and what material is capable of carrying those large amounts of electricity that can be replaced affordably in the same ROW's that the current electricity grid operates on now. Still seems like a pipe dream to me. Doable, but impossible within 10 years IMO.
Also, when these cars shit the bed or are totaled, where ya gonna put all the batteries?
SandProtege 4/9/2021 12:34pm
4/9/2021 12:34pm
mxracer816 wrote:
My biggest concern is how much more electricity is going to be consumed when every house in America along with every business has multiple cars charging...
My biggest concern is how much more electricity is going to be consumed when every house in America along with every business has multiple cars charging every evening? We already have rolling blackouts in some of the more densely populated areas now, imagine a 500% spike in usage during peak periods. No way the current grid can carry the energy as it stands today. What size and what material is capable of carrying those large amounts of electricity that can be replaced affordably in the same ROW's that the current electricity grid operates on now. Still seems like a pipe dream to me. Doable, but impossible within 10 years IMO.
Great Video

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