A joke of a track

yz133rider
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2/7/2021 4:44pm
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much...
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much because they’re the top guys. They know how to ride defensively. Why is this a conversation every week?
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was good for passing?

A track that’s good for passing allows riders within 1% of each others speed to find another line and make a pass.

When you are 10-20% faster of course you can make passes, because your sight lap is faster than the riders race pace you’re against.

Colt Nichols passed everyone no problem until he got to Jett Lawrence. He was without a doubt faster than Jett, seeing as he caught him from way way back. And yet it took him several laps and help from lappers to make the pass on Jett, without the lapper I doubt he makes the pass.

So once colt got to a rider even remotely close to his speed he couldn’t make a pass on this track. Of course he could blow by the other guys before Jett, look at the speed difference - no track on earth could deny that type of difference.

How tough is this to see?

Brayton made passes in the lcq so it’s ok for passing. Still laughing at that. Brayton could ride the track without a clutch or brake lever and win the lcq.
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Austin_Rankin
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2/7/2021 5:34pm
I guess we all have to remember this is a show and and advertisement space, is better than having passing zones, cause at the end of the day its only 20 riders fighting over the same 8 spots that only pay 230 thousand after taxes.

But if you want to watch some racing mxgp is where its at,

Herlings made 4.5 million at 24 yrs old in 2018!
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4
2/8/2021 9:50am
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much...
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much because they’re the top guys. They know how to ride defensively. Why is this a conversation every week?
yz133rider wrote:
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was...
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was good for passing?

A track that’s good for passing allows riders within 1% of each others speed to find another line and make a pass.

When you are 10-20% faster of course you can make passes, because your sight lap is faster than the riders race pace you’re against.

Colt Nichols passed everyone no problem until he got to Jett Lawrence. He was without a doubt faster than Jett, seeing as he caught him from way way back. And yet it took him several laps and help from lappers to make the pass on Jett, without the lapper I doubt he makes the pass.

So once colt got to a rider even remotely close to his speed he couldn’t make a pass on this track. Of course he could blow by the other guys before Jett, look at the speed difference - no track on earth could deny that type of difference.

How tough is this to see?

Brayton made passes in the lcq so it’s ok for passing. Still laughing at that. Brayton could ride the track without a clutch or brake lever and win the lcq.
I just find your guys arguments contradict themselves. So guys that are faster can pass slower guys, but fast guys can’t pass fast guys on these tracks?? What are we even arguing that’s racing? Staying in front of someone and holding your line is a part of racing even if the guy behind you is faster.
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APLMAN99
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Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/8/2021 10:37am
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much...
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much because they’re the top guys. They know how to ride defensively. Why is this a conversation every week?
yz133rider wrote:
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was...
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was good for passing?

A track that’s good for passing allows riders within 1% of each others speed to find another line and make a pass.

When you are 10-20% faster of course you can make passes, because your sight lap is faster than the riders race pace you’re against.

Colt Nichols passed everyone no problem until he got to Jett Lawrence. He was without a doubt faster than Jett, seeing as he caught him from way way back. And yet it took him several laps and help from lappers to make the pass on Jett, without the lapper I doubt he makes the pass.

So once colt got to a rider even remotely close to his speed he couldn’t make a pass on this track. Of course he could blow by the other guys before Jett, look at the speed difference - no track on earth could deny that type of difference.

How tough is this to see?

Brayton made passes in the lcq so it’s ok for passing. Still laughing at that. Brayton could ride the track without a clutch or brake lever and win the lcq.
So if the goal is to not have any obstacle to passing and to always have the "fastest" riders immediately get in front of a rider of "comparable" speed without the rider in front being able to ride defensively, why not just run time trials?

The fact that Jett was able to slow him down had a lot to do with Jett's skill level just as Colt's ability to pass those other riders had a lot to do with theirs.

There were places to make passes. Every track is different. The obstacles in front of a rider (track and other riders) change each moto. The sport should not come down to a straight time trial.
1

The Shop

Teej317
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Colstrip, MT, USA
2/8/2021 10:43am Edited Date/Time 2/8/2021 10:44am
Zycki11 wrote:
Lots of right hand 90 degree corners with maybe MAYBE two spots to pass. For all of the resources that exist ie. (older successful designs, rider...
Lots of right hand 90 degree corners with maybe MAYBE two spots to pass. For all of the resources that exist ie. (older successful designs, rider input) one would think they would be smarter than this.
Don't look now but looks like we have another one line, 46 second track for Orlando 1 & 2....

Looking forward to ATL
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2/8/2021 11:01am
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much...
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much because they’re the top guys. They know how to ride defensively. Why is this a conversation every week?
yz133rider wrote:
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was...
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was good for passing?

A track that’s good for passing allows riders within 1% of each others speed to find another line and make a pass.

When you are 10-20% faster of course you can make passes, because your sight lap is faster than the riders race pace you’re against.

Colt Nichols passed everyone no problem until he got to Jett Lawrence. He was without a doubt faster than Jett, seeing as he caught him from way way back. And yet it took him several laps and help from lappers to make the pass on Jett, without the lapper I doubt he makes the pass.

So once colt got to a rider even remotely close to his speed he couldn’t make a pass on this track. Of course he could blow by the other guys before Jett, look at the speed difference - no track on earth could deny that type of difference.

How tough is this to see?

Brayton made passes in the lcq so it’s ok for passing. Still laughing at that. Brayton could ride the track without a clutch or brake lever and win the lcq.
APLMAN99 wrote:
So if the goal is to not have any obstacle to passing and to always have the "fastest" riders immediately get in front of a rider...
So if the goal is to not have any obstacle to passing and to always have the "fastest" riders immediately get in front of a rider of "comparable" speed without the rider in front being able to ride defensively, why not just run time trials?

The fact that Jett was able to slow him down had a lot to do with Jett's skill level just as Colt's ability to pass those other riders had a lot to do with theirs.

There were places to make passes. Every track is different. The obstacles in front of a rider (track and other riders) change each moto. The sport should not come down to a straight time trial.
I just feel like what you guys are arguing about isn’t track layout but actually data if every rider is within one second and they can go to the pits and look at the exact right line to take to have their best lap time everybody’s going to take that line. This sport is going the way of formula one in the sense that it’s the race to the first corner. I’m not arguing with that but I don’t think it’s because of a lack of destruction inducing bowl turns it’s because everyone is tied to a computer that optimizes their ride. On top of that b class guys at your local track can scrub now. So why wouldn’t everyone.
2/8/2021 11:15am
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much...
Do you guys watch the races? Brayton started at 8 in the LCQ and passed guys all over the track. The top guys don’t pass much because they’re the top guys. They know how to ride defensively. Why is this a conversation every week?
yz133rider wrote:
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was...
Justin Brayton who’s won a main event, made passes on several 3 digit riders in the lcq, and this proves to you that the track was good for passing?

A track that’s good for passing allows riders within 1% of each others speed to find another line and make a pass.

When you are 10-20% faster of course you can make passes, because your sight lap is faster than the riders race pace you’re against.

Colt Nichols passed everyone no problem until he got to Jett Lawrence. He was without a doubt faster than Jett, seeing as he caught him from way way back. And yet it took him several laps and help from lappers to make the pass on Jett, without the lapper I doubt he makes the pass.

So once colt got to a rider even remotely close to his speed he couldn’t make a pass on this track. Of course he could blow by the other guys before Jett, look at the speed difference - no track on earth could deny that type of difference.

How tough is this to see?

Brayton made passes in the lcq so it’s ok for passing. Still laughing at that. Brayton could ride the track without a clutch or brake lever and win the lcq.
APLMAN99 wrote:
So if the goal is to not have any obstacle to passing and to always have the "fastest" riders immediately get in front of a rider...
So if the goal is to not have any obstacle to passing and to always have the "fastest" riders immediately get in front of a rider of "comparable" speed without the rider in front being able to ride defensively, why not just run time trials?

The fact that Jett was able to slow him down had a lot to do with Jett's skill level just as Colt's ability to pass those other riders had a lot to do with theirs.

There were places to make passes. Every track is different. The obstacles in front of a rider (track and other riders) change each moto. The sport should not come down to a straight time trial.
I’m just not seeing any real viable solutions being presented in these forums every week after the races. I don’t know if motocross fans feel they’re special, but you can argue than “analytics and data” has taken the rough edge off of almost every sport.

I think another thing not being discussed is the difference between the success of James Stewart vs someone like Dungey. Dungey was a beast but rode extremely calculated. I can think of him as boring, but you can never argue that he threw away championships. James on the other hand was maybe the most entertaining rider to watch week in and week out, he was willing to put it all on the line to make that pass anywhere on the track. But in hindsight he cost himself more championships than he won riding like that. The class of today were all juniors and in training clubs watching that, so what do you think they’ll be modeling their riding mentality off of. Seems like the racers today are more satisfied with letting the race come to them instead of attacking. I can’t blame them for that but I think a byproduct of that is people complaining about track layout like that’s the one thing to fix our sport.
Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
2/8/2021 12:48pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Off season: I can’t wait for racing. SX season: I hate these tracks. The rider didn’t deserve the win. I’m over it. I’m never watching racing...
Off season: I can’t wait for racing.

SX season: I hate these tracks. The rider didn’t deserve the win. I’m over it.
I’m never watching racing again.
Well, boohoo. At least be happy there’s racing considering all things.
Small track or not, there’s something to look forward to each week.
Zycki11 wrote:
Reads through thread
Posts something that gives zero insight and is a vital standard

Anybody can do what you did. Provide something useful
Chance1216 wrote:
I did. I said we could be happy just having races to watch. I didn’t quote you for the reason of trying to stay civil and...
I did. I said we could be happy just having races to watch.
I didn’t quote you for the reason of trying to stay civil and light hearted.
But, since you quoted me, what’s the difference between your posts and every other one complaining?
Read through the thread. I gave examples as to why the track is a negative as well as ways to slow down and improve the tracks. I do agree with the aspect of at least they are racing.
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2/8/2021 1:01pm
Leeham wrote:
When we get a track that is over 55 seconds it will be legit racing, fewer lappers and the track wont get trashed nearly as fast
Can someone explain to me please exactly how a longer lap time makes better racing?

The only thing I can come up with is fewer lappers. But there must be something else enough of you bang on about it.
Brent
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Temecula, CA, USA
2/8/2021 1:09pm
TeamGreen wrote:
So, is the site called “Vital MX Bitching”? :lol: I just watched a guy pass 19 riders; so, that covers the “one line” or “no passing”...
So, is the site called “Vital MX Bitching”?
Grinning
I just watched a guy pass 19 riders; so, that covers the “one line” or “no passing” bs.
Hey were you at Fox today on a Honda off road 450 by chance?
2/8/2021 1:41pm
Why don’t they re-use past tracks that provided great racing? Why the need to always come up with a new design each and every race.
yz133rider
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Avondale, PA, USA
2/8/2021 1:47pm
bodean123 wrote:
Why don’t they re-use past tracks that provided great racing? Why the need to always come up with a new design each and every race.
Bingo that’s what I’ve been saying.
f052zy8002
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West Milford, NJ, USA
2/8/2021 1:51pm
chad_111 wrote:
They need to get creative
They need to get creative

Tracks in this era were awesome, I wish we could have some similar features like the on/off with the bridge.
Leeham
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Rochester, WA, USA
2/8/2021 1:51pm
Leeham wrote:
When we get a track that is over 55 seconds it will be legit racing, fewer lappers and the track wont get trashed nearly as fast
Can someone explain to me please exactly how a longer lap time makes better racing? The only thing I can come up with is fewer lappers...
Can someone explain to me please exactly how a longer lap time makes better racing?

The only thing I can come up with is fewer lappers. But there must be something else enough of you bang on about it.
Usually the longer lap times, better sections for passing. That isnt always the case but it seems to trend like that. But all these top level guys in this stacked field all catch on to the best line so REGARDLESS of the track its going to get one lined for the most part. So unless there is a crazy quad or some unorthodox line, they mostly do the same thing.

With last rounds layout, the best passing corners were indeed left turns and it showed. Aside from jumping deep into right 90 turns, that was it unless it was in the air.

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