KTM Committed to Two-Strokes

Tiki
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Edited Date/Time 1/21/2012 6:42pm
From Dirt Rider
No "Either-Or" Principle

KTM 'Ready To Race' In The Future With Modern Two-Strokes!

Ktm Motorcycles Two Strokes Ktm Ceo Stefan Pierer

Sports motorcycles driven by a two-stroke engine traditionally play an important role at KTM. For this reason, KTM CEO Stefan Pierer continues to place the emphasis on this efficient motor principle for the future, above all in motor sports and in the company's support of the next generation of competitors.

The Austrian sports motorcycle manufacturer underlines its commitment to two-stroke technology. KTM boss Stefan Pierer continues to see meaningful applications for the light power pack and has constantly promoted further development in this area of engine technology.

Costs and efficiency
"It was always clear to us that the two-stroke engine would play an important role, also in the future. For example with regards to the next generation of offroad riders - and here we are speaking about a very influential target group of consumers for whom the two-stroke is unbeatable in terms of efficiency and costs. For this reason we have never hesitated in continuing to further develop this technology - the potential for which is by far not exhausted," commented Stefan Pierer. "Currently two-strokes make up almost half of all offroad motorcycles. More than 20,000 customers who decided for a two-stroke just in the last financial year are certainly the best evidence for the continual demand of this technology. Above all, this is especially valid for young offroad riders. They want to train a lot and are particularly dependent on being able to know exactly what they have to spend."

Ktm Motorcycles Two Strokes Taddy Blazusiak

First choice for extreme Enduro races
Stefan Pierer continues: "There are also areas in serious motor sports where it is difficult not to go for two stroke technology. One of the most obvious examples is the increasingly popular Extreme Enduro events. Also, we have to welcome the FIM decision that from next season there will again be a junior class on 125 cc two-strokes as part of the MX1/MX2 Motocross World Championships."

No "either-or" principle
In principle, KTM takes the position that in the medium term it will be legitimate to have various engine concepts on the market. Stefan Pierer: "There is no "either-or". In the coming years, sophisticated two-stroke engines will find as many takers as modern four-strokes - but also completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less than two years.

Ktm Motorcycles Two Strokes Sportminicycles Action

There will be good opportunities for all of this technology. Also with the range of engine development we must consider a market situation that will be more intensely specialised and directed towards niches. "

Finally, the motor sport enthusiast KTM boss underlines: "At KTM the two-stroke will continue to remain an integral part of the future model planning. We have already recognised new topics and initiated the development of even more powerful, quieter and above all less polluting two-stroke sports models within the framework of a specific project grouping."
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TimbuK758
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6/9/2009 4:15pm
i liked seeing that...

"completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less than two years. "
Shocked
DrSweden
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6/9/2009 4:16pm
KTM rules!!! Maybe the others will pic up the torch as well?
MX7MX
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6/9/2009 4:21pm
nobody else cares!
Tiki
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6/9/2009 4:25pm
TimbuK758 wrote:
i liked seeing that... "completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less...
i liked seeing that...

"completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less than two years. "
Shocked
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.

The Shop

race
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MX7MX wrote:
nobody else cares!

STFU! You're just a dumb-bot anyway.

Gibby, turn the thing off. It's just too annoying.

calimxer91
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MX7MX wrote:
nobody else cares!
GuyB
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6/9/2009 4:36pm
Funny, that's on the homepage here, too. Wink
Void Main
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6/9/2009 4:38pm
TimbuK758 wrote:
i liked seeing that... "completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less...
i liked seeing that...

"completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less than two years. "
Shocked
Tiki wrote:
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's...
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.
KTM absolutely puts as much into their 2-strokes as they do their 4-stroke. They even have electric start and dual mapped ignition. They make a SWEET woods bike!
Shenzi
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6/9/2009 4:39pm
when I was in Europe a month ago there were rumors in the media that yam and Kawi are working on modern 125cc 2-strokes, following the FIM's project of Junior 2-stroke class for 2010.
motogrady
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6/9/2009 4:46pm


Attending a GNCC a few years back, I was taking to the KTM guys. They had
a hell of a rig. All the riders were cool and easygoing. Up walks this big
blond guy, I took him as manager or something 'cause everyone kinda
clammed up. Green had quit the 2 and it was Zooks last year with it.
"So, how long before KTM stops making 2 strokes?" I ask, just making
conversation.

Freaking guy turns and looks me straight in the eye.
I could feel the contempt. There was hatred in those blue eyes.
I mean, he was ready to rumble. Noise to some, music to me..............

"VEE AT KTM VILL ALLLVAYS MAKE DA 2 STROOKE!"

redalert144
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6/9/2009 4:50pm
i think the 250f is too big of a step for the kids coming off 85s. ama and mxsports should consider having a 125 class too
Void Main
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motogrady wrote:
Attending a GNCC a few years back, I was taking to the KTM guys. They had a hell of a rig. All the riders were cool...


Attending a GNCC a few years back, I was taking to the KTM guys. They had
a hell of a rig. All the riders were cool and easygoing. Up walks this big
blond guy, I took him as manager or something 'cause everyone kinda
clammed up. Green had quit the 2 and it was Zooks last year with it.
"So, how long before KTM stops making 2 strokes?" I ask, just making
conversation.

Freaking guy turns and looks me straight in the eye.
I could feel the contempt. There was hatred in those blue eyes.
I mean, he was ready to rumble. Noise to some, music to me..............

"VEE AT KTM VILL ALLLVAYS MAKE DA 2 STROOKE!"

Smile
Tiki
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6/9/2009 4:53pm
GuyB wrote:
Funny, that's on the homepage here, too. Wink
Im Slackin!

The current two stroke design is dated Void. Electric start is cool but lets get to injection reduce the size of the crank, work on the frame. No need for the gas to be way up high. Reverse the air intake and fuel ah-la Husaberg. Honda left us with electronic ports, enhance that idea.

Its tough with electric motor technology just emerging.
JOHN CHOATE
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6/9/2009 5:15pm
There were several riders on KTM two strokes at the Loretta Regional Qualifier last week in AL that were freakin' flying. It was impressive to say the least.
Void Main
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6/9/2009 5:27pm
GuyB wrote:
Funny, that's on the homepage here, too. Wink
Tiki wrote:
Im Slackin! The current two stroke design is dated Void. Electric start is cool but lets get to injection reduce the size of the crank, work...
Im Slackin!

The current two stroke design is dated Void. Electric start is cool but lets get to injection reduce the size of the crank, work on the frame. No need for the gas to be way up high. Reverse the air intake and fuel ah-la Husaberg. Honda left us with electronic ports, enhance that idea.

Its tough with electric motor technology just emerging.
1) injection - Maybe, not sure I want that if it adds cost and complexity. It may be a good thing though.
2) reduce the size of the crank?
3) Frame? How is that a 2-stroke issue? The same effort is put into the frames of both the 2 and the 4 at KTM as far as I know.
4) Reversing air intake is not a 2-stroke issue, why not do that on the 4-stroke too?

I don't know, it's hard to improve something that is already near perfect.
RMZ819
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6/9/2009 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2009 6:05pm
TimbuK758 wrote:
i liked seeing that... "completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less...
i liked seeing that...

"completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less than two years. "
Shocked
Tiki wrote:
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's...
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.
Late 80's my ass Tiki. The 250SX is awesome. That bike handles as good as any jap bike out there.
Motorz
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6/9/2009 6:35pm
I like the orange color scheme. I've always thought KTM bikes look really nice since I first saw one.
Moto East Mag
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6/9/2009 6:44pm
TimbuK758 wrote:
i liked seeing that... "completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less...
i liked seeing that...

"completely new engines, like for example an electric engine that we will see on the market for a sports Enduro in less than two years. "
Shocked
Tiki wrote:
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's...
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.
RMZ819 wrote:
Late 80's my ass Tiki. The 250SX is awesome. That bike handles as good as any jap bike out there.
You have to understand. Even acknowledging the potential of 2 bangers in any way is a big step forward for Tiki.

We've got him on the 12-step program.

My man Mike Farmer ran down the 50+ A Class at Tomahawk on Sunday on his YZ144. After crashing in the first turn and getting up last. Against 450s.
RACERX69
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6/9/2009 7:13pm
Tiki wrote:
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's...
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.
RMZ819 wrote:
Late 80's my ass Tiki. The 250SX is awesome. That bike handles as good as any jap bike out there.
You have to understand. Even acknowledging the potential of 2 bangers in any way is a big step forward for Tiki. We've got him on the...
You have to understand. Even acknowledging the potential of 2 bangers in any way is a big step forward for Tiki.

We've got him on the 12-step program.

My man Mike Farmer ran down the 50+ A Class at Tomahawk on Sunday on his YZ144. After crashing in the first turn and getting up last. Against 450s.
Awesome!!!! I love hearing stories like that. It warms my heart to see someone on a 125/144 hand it to some dip shit on a four stroke that thinks he's fast. Even better when someone does it to a whole class of them, i.e Malcom Stewart at Gainsville.
Larry
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6/9/2009 7:52pm
Tiki wrote:
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's...
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.
Tiki have you had a chance to ride a 300 XC? Its a much better bike than the 250SX.
I am with you though if they put serious effort into a 2 stroke it would be worlds better than anything else out there.
The problem is that they have to sell them in America and the AMA will not allow KTM to race that bike in National Competition.
oldx
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6/9/2009 8:12pm
KTM 300 E start is the best 2 stroke ever built IMHO.
race
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6/9/2009 9:02pm
oldx wrote:
KTM 300 E start is the best 2 stroke ever built IMHO.
Do you really need e-start on a two-stroke?

Just sounds like extra weight.
ninety3
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6/9/2009 9:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:20am
oldx wrote:
KTM 300 E start is the best 2 stroke ever built IMHO.
race wrote:
Do you really need e-start on a two-stroke?

Just sounds like extra weight.
For Off-Road & Enduros it's a big plus, In MX, not so much.
andymoto
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6/9/2009 10:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:20am
DI engine tech for two strokes as all know have passed stringent CARB testing year in/out..

Have to see again, but think in '08 DI two stroke category got another CARB(Cal Air Resources Board) award for least pollution emitting engine in small engine category think which would include MX sized engines.

Some boat motor makers have had it for some years; Yamaha included.

Isn't current EPA using some of Calif EPA(or CARCool rules since Bush or Arnold sued?

Cal has the most stringent emission rules in the US and thought BO admin adopted them.

Tiki
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Tiki wrote:
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's...
If they put the effort into two strokes they did into the new MX four stroke, I might like them more. Currently they are late 80's in design and vibrate like a dentist drill.
EFI (against AMA rule) twin cylinder. Constant variable transmission. All the technology is out there, they could make some cool stuff.

They are going to have an uphill battle with the EPA though. I really hate that agency.
Larry wrote:
Tiki have you had a chance to ride a 300 XC? Its a much better bike than the 250SX. I am with you though if they...
Tiki have you had a chance to ride a 300 XC? Its a much better bike than the 250SX.
I am with you though if they put serious effort into a 2 stroke it would be worlds better than anything else out there.
The problem is that they have to sell them in America and the AMA will not allow KTM to race that bike in National Competition.
Yes, I have ridden an 09 300. They still vibrate more then four strokes and have more abrupt power. That is tuneable but still they are more of a switch then "electric" power.

It is possible to make a still better two cycle motor. And they are FAR FAR FAR away from perfect. The modern design is the same as it has been since, well the late 80's. Case reed, lower ports, mechanical power valves all are from near three decades ago. Understanding the idea behind the engine you will see the logic in what I am talking about.

In 1995 four stroke mx bikes were based on long stroke, heavy slow engines. When Yamaha wanted to build a competitive four stroke engine they looked at different ways of getting the job done. Take that same idea behind the 1980 two stroke and I bet a smooth power churning, clean burning motor will exist.

If you go to the factory two strokes, they were smooth and tractors that made horsepower from bottom to top. Not switches that the public was given.
motogrady
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6/10/2009 4:08am
Tiki wrote:
Yes, I have ridden an 09 300. They still vibrate more then four strokes and have more abrupt power. That is tuneable but still they are...
Yes, I have ridden an 09 300. They still vibrate more then four strokes and have more abrupt power. That is tuneable but still they are more of a switch then "electric" power.

It is possible to make a still better two cycle motor. And they are FAR FAR FAR away from perfect. The modern design is the same as it has been since, well the late 80's. Case reed, lower ports, mechanical power valves all are from near three decades ago. Understanding the idea behind the engine you will see the logic in what I am talking about.

In 1995 four stroke mx bikes were based on long stroke, heavy slow engines. When Yamaha wanted to build a competitive four stroke engine they looked at different ways of getting the job done. Take that same idea behind the 1980 two stroke and I bet a smooth power churning, clean burning motor will exist.

If you go to the factory two strokes, they were smooth and tractors that made horsepower from bottom to top. Not switches that the public was given.


Not entirely true Tiki.
The public was offered low end 2 strokes. My '72 250 Husky had a pipe
with a stinger the size of a silver dollar. Nothing but low end. Great bike.
But, you could get more hp if you played with ports and expansion chambers.
You lost some low end, but you gained it on top. Harder to ride, but yes, faster.

And that's what guys did.


Anyone remember the Kawasaki Green Streak?
Probally a 200 rpm powerband, but when yer in it, yer on it.

Kinda funny really, 15 years of working the 4 stroke, and to this day,
head to head the 2 eats it alive.

Advertising at it's finest................

Tiki
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6/10/2009 9:11am
Grady, your post needs photos for full effect. Thanks for sharing that.
TJ 755
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6/10/2009 9:48am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2009 9:49am
Preemie in 5..4..3..
motogrady
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6/10/2009 9:52am

The last I saw all my old racin' pic's, they were in an album that vanished
along with a bitch that couldn't take a joke.

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