09 kx250f problems after rebuild

kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
Looking for some experienced help because im out of ideas. Just finished building this bike and cannot get it to start. It ran perfectly fine before.

What its doing:
Gets gas, gets spark, every few kicks it blows flames out of the exhaust. - sounds like a valve timing issue..but the cams are correct. Have reinstalled them at least 10 times. Even tried rotating a tooth both directions to be sure...

Valve clearance is .15mm on the intakes and .2mm on the exhaust which is hotcams’ spec for their cams.

Leakdown test is showing zero leakage past the valves and 10% leak through the piston.

Cylinder is replated from powerseal and was matched with a new piston.

I reset the TPS resistance according to the service manual - this didnt make a difference.

The carb’s jetting is the same as it was before teardown. Fuel screw is 1.5 out & the slide height on the air box side is .125”

The flywheel key is not sheared - i just put it together.

The cam gears do not appear to have rotated on the shaft while they were sitting in a box over the duration of the rebuild.

The decompressor on the exhaust cam is functioning properly.


Pretty lost at this point. Im hoping someone can suggest something i havent tried yet. The bike sounds like it wasnt to catch, but doesnt.
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Paw Paw
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678
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12/24/2011
Location
Benton, LA, USA
5/31/2020 5:38am
Plugged pilot jet?
Are you getting fuel to the carb?
Using correct timing marks for cam timing?
Fuel screw set too lean?
I have always found the valve settings from Hot Cams to be too tight and give starting issues. You may want to try stock settings.
New cam chain?
Bright Blue spark?

Paw Paw
1
kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
5/31/2020 6:02am
Paw Paw wrote:
Plugged pilot jet? Are you getting fuel to the carb? Using correct timing marks for cam timing? Fuel screw set too lean? I have always found...
Plugged pilot jet?
Are you getting fuel to the carb?
Using correct timing marks for cam timing?
Fuel screw set too lean?
I have always found the valve settings from Hot Cams to be too tight and give starting issues. You may want to try stock settings.
New cam chain?
Bright Blue spark?

Paw Paw
Plugged pilot jet?
-no it looked nice and clean before i cleaned the carb

Are you getting fuel to the carb?
-Yes, the spark plug gets plenty wet

Using correct timing marks for cam timing?
-Yes. Its the two marks on the flywheel next to each other, and im using the most clockwise mark if those two marks.

Fuel screw set too lean?
-Im not sure, 1.5 turns out is more screwed in than before i took it apart. Before i believe it was 3 turns out or so.

I have always found the valve settings from Hot Cams to be too tight and give starting issues. You may want to try stock settings.
-stock is .10-.15 on the intake and .15-.2 on the exhaust. My clearances are at the loose ends of those ranges. Additionally, these clearances are what i ran before teardown. The bike always started 1st kick.

New cam chain?
Yes, OEM.

Bright Blue spark?
Yes. It seems like a strong spark, it jumped from the plug to the frame over a 1/2” gap
jessdr1
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CA
5/31/2020 10:38am
Are you really at TDC when doing your timing?
1
kb228
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5/31/2020 12:48pm
jessdr1 wrote:
Are you really at TDC when doing your timing?
Yes, ive verified with the marks on the flywheel and also watching an allen wrench in the spark plug hole. Dots line up perfectly with 28 pins dot to dot
1

The Shop

walent215
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2526
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12/6/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA, USA
5/31/2020 5:10pm
Rebuilt complete motor? Top/bottom? New valves etc? Wiring all plugged in tight? Disconnect kill switch? Coil mounted up tight? Try a new plug?
Factor E
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So Cal, CA, USA
5/31/2020 5:38pm
If sat for awhile.
You can have a brand new clean pilot in it, if the body passage is still blocked no fuel or little.
Clear passage

Backfire, could be timing
kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
5/31/2020 8:03pm
walent215 wrote:
Rebuilt complete motor? Top/bottom? New valves etc? Wiring all plugged in tight? Disconnect kill switch? Coil mounted up tight? Try a new plug?
Yes to all of that. The current cylinder head is identical to what it was before teardown. Its still like-new. 30 hours total on stainless valves.
Factor E
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5/31/2020 9:30pm
Crank position sensor
kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
6/1/2020 3:03am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2020 3:14am
Factor E wrote:
Crank position sensor
Is that something that can be installed incorrectly? It has been in a plastic bag with the stator while the engine was torn down
RGaede
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Albuquerque, NM, USA
6/1/2020 7:36am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2020 8:02am
Have you taken the air filter off and seen if it will run for a couple seconds on starting fluid? If it does, you'd be able to narrow the issue to fuel delivery, if it doesn't, then you'd know to look into timing (valve or spark).
Factor E
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6/1/2020 9:11am
pull off and turn around and try it
kb228
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6/1/2020 9:31am
RGaede wrote:
Have you taken the air filter off and seen if it will run for a couple seconds on starting fluid? If it does, you'd be able...
Have you taken the air filter off and seen if it will run for a couple seconds on starting fluid? If it does, you'd be able to narrow the issue to fuel delivery, if it doesn't, then you'd know to look into timing (valve or spark).
Yea i havent even put an air filter on yet
kb228
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6/1/2020 9:32am
Factor E wrote:
pull off and turn around and try it
What exactly does that change? If its backwards does it not spark at the correct time or something?
Paul_Pitzonka
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Grand Terrace, CA, USA
6/1/2020 9:53am
Ran into a Very similar problem on this exact model during a rebuild... one of the pins in the connector from the stator assembly to the main harness backed out of the connector... symptoms were very similar to what you are describing... worth a look
kb228
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6/1/2020 10:15am
Ran into a Very similar problem on this exact model during a rebuild... one of the pins in the connector from the stator assembly to the...
Ran into a Very similar problem on this exact model during a rebuild... one of the pins in the connector from the stator assembly to the main harness backed out of the connector... symptoms were very similar to what you are describing... worth a look
Ill take a look at that. Do you know functionality wise what that would do the ignition system? Does it allow a spark initially and then due to an open circuit the cdi stops any further spark? Im just trying to make sense of things
Paul_Pitzonka
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6/1/2020 10:19am
When I ran into the problem... sometimes the bike would start, sometimes it would just pop and never start... I found it when I got the bike to fire again... I just sat there moving the wiring harness/connectors around until it stalled...
kb228
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6/1/2020 10:35am
Another thing ill look at while im there..wanted to just throw this out there. Can the stator be installed to the ignition cover flipped 180? Would that cause issues as well?
RGaede
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6/1/2020 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 6/1/2020 1:55pm
Depending on how the ignition system is set, it could be firing on overlap instead of compression. I don't know how this ignition system is setup to work, but on a lot of four strokes it only sparks once every two rotations of the crank (some are like a two stroke and fire everytime the piston is at TDC). If the ignition timing is seeing that your st TDC when your actually on overlap, then it could act as described. If the stator and crank sensor are not adjustable, you could try taking the cams out, rotating the crank 1 revolution, then re-installing the cams.
526
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Colgate, WI, USA
6/1/2020 2:11pm
You don't have a rag stuffed in the exhaust or intake ?
Factor E
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6/1/2020 5:15pm
Use the marks on flywheel for positive TDC
RGaede
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Albuquerque, NM, USA
6/1/2020 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 6/1/2020 6:42pm
He already says he is. My suggestion would still use this mark. Im not sure on how the kx spark timing is set. If it fires every time the piston is at tdc it won't matter. If it fires every other time, then my suggestion would come into play.
DynoDan22
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Victorville, CA, USA
6/1/2020 6:17pm
Is the plate on the carb slide installed correctly? It is possible to install it upside down and make starting a pain.
Austin_Rankin
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Georgetown, KY, USA
6/1/2020 10:46pm
Stator, they are known for shitting on kawis especially 2006-2010!!!!


Went through, 2008 model 2009 model and 2010 model

Back when D-K was king of thumpertalk.!!!!

Trust me the stator will spark even if its bad!
kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
6/2/2020 2:57am
DynoDan22 wrote:
Is the plate on the carb slide installed correctly? It is possible to install it upside down and make starting a pain.
Yes, square side down
526
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Colgate, WI, USA
6/3/2020 4:56am
Any Updates ?
kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
6/3/2020 5:55am
526 wrote:
Any Updates ?
Ill be doing tests today on everything mentioned so far and will report back
1
kb228
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Mansfield, OH, USA
6/28/2020 5:06pm
Finally made some progress.

Neutral switch wire does not have continuity to the frame.

I have continuity from the wire to the harness connector.

I have continuity from the harness connector to the CDI harness plug.

I have continuity from the proper lead in the CDI harness to the frame if i jump the connection without the CDI installed. This is from the terminal on the neutral switch all the way to the frame.

I do not have continuity to frame if i plug in the CDI box.

I do not have continuity on the male cdi box pins either.

Not sure how the cdi went bad from sitting on the shelf, possibly from condensation from heating the garage in the winter?



jorgetorres
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2
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10/16/2024
Location
Homestead, FL, USA
10/16/2024 9:00pm
kb228 wrote:
Looking for some experienced help because im out of ideas. Just finished building this bike and cannot get it to start. It ran perfectly fine before...
Looking for some experienced help because im out of ideas. Just finished building this bike and cannot get it to start. It ran perfectly fine before.

What its doing:
Gets gas, gets spark, every few kicks it blows flames out of the exhaust. - sounds like a valve timing issue..but the cams are correct. Have reinstalled them at least 10 times. Even tried rotating a tooth both directions to be sure...

Valve clearance is .15mm on the intakes and .2mm on the exhaust which is hotcams’ spec for their cams.

Leakdown test is showing zero leakage past the valves and 10% leak through the piston.

Cylinder is replated from powerseal and was matched with a new piston.

I reset the TPS resistance according to the service manual - this didnt make a difference.

The carb’s jetting is the same as it was before teardown. Fuel screw is 1.5 out & the slide height on the air box side is .125”

The flywheel key is not sheared - i just put it together.

The cam gears do not appear to have rotated on the shaft while they were sitting in a box over the duration of the rebuild.

The decompressor on the exhaust cam is functioning properly.


Pretty lost at this point. Im hoping someone can suggest something i havent tried yet. The bike sounds like it wasnt to catch, but doesnt.

Old thread, new to the community hello everyone. I am 31 y.o and have been in the industry since 17 y.o. long story short I finally decided to create an account and share my knowledge they way you all have not just here but on other sites as well. In my experience I ran into a 07 kx250f for tuning the carb and some aesthetics. Turned out to be a nightmare. I even met the previous mechanic and shared knowledge with the next. All very knowledgeable and knew exactly what they were doing. Idk how to explain this but I figured out the problem to be a bad frame. I don't even know how to explain this but I've come across certain black spray paints because the majority of people do that 😐 even on new bikes and for some reason it affects the engines electrical

jorgetorres
Posts
2
Joined
10/16/2024
Location
Homestead, FL, USA
10/16/2024 9:05pm
kb228 wrote:
Looking for some experienced help because im out of ideas. Just finished building this bike and cannot get it to start. It ran perfectly fine before...
Looking for some experienced help because im out of ideas. Just finished building this bike and cannot get it to start. It ran perfectly fine before.

What its doing:
Gets gas, gets spark, every few kicks it blows flames out of the exhaust. - sounds like a valve timing issue..but the cams are correct. Have reinstalled them at least 10 times. Even tried rotating a tooth both directions to be sure...

Valve clearance is .15mm on the intakes and .2mm on the exhaust which is hotcams’ spec for their cams.

Leakdown test is showing zero leakage past the valves and 10% leak through the piston.

Cylinder is replated from powerseal and was matched with a new piston.

I reset the TPS resistance according to the service manual - this didnt make a difference.

The carb’s jetting is the same as it was before teardown. Fuel screw is 1.5 out & the slide height on the air box side is .125”

The flywheel key is not sheared - i just put it together.

The cam gears do not appear to have rotated on the shaft while they were sitting in a box over the duration of the rebuild.

The decompressor on the exhaust cam is functioning properly.


Pretty lost at this point. Im hoping someone can suggest something i havent tried yet. The bike sounds like it wasnt to catch, but doesnt.
Old thread, new to the community hello everyone. I am 31 y.o and have been in the industry since 17 y.o. long story short I finally...

Old thread, new to the community hello everyone. I am 31 y.o and have been in the industry since 17 y.o. long story short I finally decided to create an account and share my knowledge they way you all have not just here but on other sites as well. In my experience I ran into a 07 kx250f for tuning the carb and some aesthetics. Turned out to be a nightmare. I even met the previous mechanic and shared knowledge with the next. All very knowledgeable and knew exactly what they were doing. Idk how to explain this but I figured out the problem to be a bad frame. I don't even know how to explain this but I've come across certain black spray paints because the majority of people do that 😐 even on new bikes and for some reason it affects the engines electrical

For the love of God it doesn't make any sense to me. I've cleaned contact points to the state of a brushed aluminum finish and I've seen the problem on the kx250fs of 06-8 and on raptor 700s 14 and up also banshees. The case on the banshees have been after powder coated frames and or engine cases. Fixed by simply retappi g the frame and sanding for a better ground to not just frame but engine as well. On the kx250fs and those years of raptor when ever I've come across some one spray painting it with a certain black paint your lucky if the bike even fires up once per 50 tries.

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