engaging in any unfair practice, misbehavior, or action detrimental to the sport of motorcycling in general

jbomx363
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Denham Springs, LA US
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 6:03pm
Seriously? You can apply that rule and hand out penalties each week.

As far as the ignoring the black flag goes... okay.

Penalty is over the top for such a minor instance.

From RacerX:
AMA Penalty for Chisolm
|
kcadrenalin
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Turney, MO US
4/28/2009 10:34am Edited Date/Time 4/28/2009 10:43am
Actually, seems like a pretty well reasoned fine. Could have been much worse.
raddad
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4/28/2009 10:37am
Actually, seems like a pretty well reasoned fine. Could have been much worse.
I agree, considering all the circumstances it was quite fair. If he would have done that to someone in 10th place, it would not have been such a mess but this is for all the marbles and the marbles are pretty good sized these days!
jeffro756
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Sycamore, IL US
4/28/2009 10:40am
It was absolutely fair, and I bet the suspension comes in to play because they would be worried about it happening again.

I have said it before, someone like chisolm doesn't do that on his own accord, he was asked or payed to do it. I doubt the stewart camp was involved, but I doubt that it would have stopped there if given another chance. Obviously all of that giberish is just my opinion!
huck
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Mountain Home, AR US
4/28/2009 10:43am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:37pm
jeffro756 wrote:
It was absolutely fair, and I bet the suspension comes in to play because they would be worried about it happening again. I have said it...
It was absolutely fair, and I bet the suspension comes in to play because they would be worried about it happening again.

I have said it before, someone like chisolm doesn't do that on his own accord, he was asked or payed to do it. I doubt the stewart camp was involved, but I doubt that it would have stopped there if given another chance. Obviously all of that giberish is just my opinion!
You think maybe Dean and R-acer paid Kyle to do it?



The Shop

jeffro756
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Sycamore, IL US
4/28/2009 10:50am
Exactly huck...someone had to do it!
ky_savage
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Kentucky, KY US
4/28/2009 11:01am
I say we burn the rule book and let the last man standing take home the trophy
500guy
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AZ US
4/28/2009 11:31am
I thought it was more interesting the suspended him from any AMA or FIM sanctioned events until may 3rd.

So I guess he got more penalty than Lawrence in some ways
ky_savage
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4/28/2009 11:37am
I guess he's AMA's new bastard child
IceMan
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US
4/28/2009 11:42am
I agree 500guy and JLAW executed an actual take out move. KC got a little rubber on the side of Reeds swing arm and everyone is crying take out. I think the move Reed put on James was more then what KC did to Reed. Not saying it was right or not but there have been way worse hits that have gone unpunished. Mudflaps and Alessi hit comes to mind at daytona.
peelout719
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Ogden, UT US
4/28/2009 11:48am
jbomx363 wrote:
Seriously? You can apply that rule and hand out penalties each week. As far as the ignoring the black flag goes... okay. Penalty is over the...
Seriously? You can apply that rule and hand out penalties each week.

As far as the ignoring the black flag goes... okay.

Penalty is over the top for such a minor instance.

From RacerX:
AMA Penalty for Chisolm
you think fining KC five large is harsh?

think of the hundreds of thousands that move "POTENTIALLY" cost Chad Reed.

stfu please
catatonic
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Cape cod, MA US
4/28/2009 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:38pm
Regardless of if KC meant to do it or not.....The penalty sends a message to all the lappers to stay clear of the leaders.
I think its good.
Nobody wants to see this title or any title in the future decided by a lapper.
GoRide2
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El Cajon, CA US
4/28/2009 12:32pm
I guess that you guys don't understand the concept. JLaw, as out of line as his "move" was, was going against a guy that he was racing with. Chisholm was a lap down and messing with the championship. Hepler isn't in any championships. JLaw might have even saved him from an injury that he might have gotten later in the race. People have said that Chisholm also pulled some sketchy moves last week while getting lapped by the GLROAT.
ky_savage
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4/28/2009 12:41pm
I believe most are aware of KC being a lapper, and accept that. I think that 90% are just keeping it going for the fun of it. I'm in the 10% that would like to see a thread that has nothing to do with it come about.
-eagle-
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ZW
4/28/2009 1:00pm
How about 18 punting 800 at daytona and nothing happened.
If that would have been 338, he would have been executed on the spot.
Its convenient to apply vague rules at your own discretion.
jeffro756
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Sycamore, IL US
4/28/2009 1:05pm
riders punting riders for the spot is perfectly 100% acceptable and warranted in my book. Lappers attempting to punt leaders to help teammates, not so much. Although i guess I was never opposed to the stacking the field and people getting in the way mentalitiy of old. I just think it was the lapper part that was a problem for me.
jbomx363
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2008
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Denham Springs, LA US
4/28/2009 1:12pm
peelout719 wrote:
you think fining KC five large is harsh?

think of the hundreds of thousands that move "POTENTIALLY" cost Chad Reed.

stfu please
No.. I don't care about the cash.

I care about the suspension being for an additional for the minimal contact.

This is a case where the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Everyone has their opinion on it, that's mine. If he wanted to punt Reed, he wouldn't have gotten on the binders so hard. I see that people are saying that was an odd line choice going in the turn, well I say Reeds was an odd line choice going in the turn with Bubba. Both worked and I have nothing against either riders actions.
wilcom121
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Frederick, MD US
4/28/2009 1:26pm
catatonic wrote:
Regardless of if KC meant to do it or not.....The penalty sends a message to all the lappers to stay clear of the leaders. I think...
Regardless of if KC meant to do it or not.....The penalty sends a message to all the lappers to stay clear of the leaders.
I think its good.
Nobody wants to see this title or any title in the future decided by a lapper.
I agree with you there.

I don't agree with the penalty in the corner everyone is throwing fit about. He should of been fined for hopping in between james and chad in the section before forcing chad wide. The actual contact in the next corner after looked accidental (he was riding on his front tire) and actually cost chad less time then the corner before.
4/28/2009 1:26pm
The penalty is really a no win. If they don't penalize him, or just give him a slap on the wrist it won't set a precedence that team tactics of that nature aren't allowable. If they penalize him too harshly, it doesn't really fit the crime. I wish there was a way to make it fair to penalize him a whole lot more to make sure something like this never happens again. Honestly, a 1 race vacation and a $5,000 fine that probably was only 1/4 of what he was paid to execute it almost seems too minimal.

I guess if they really want to make sure this doesn't happen again they'll find a way to make a ruling that will punish not only the rider executing the tactic, but the rider he was helping at the same time. Sure it opens up a can of worms, but if Stewart risked a DQ if any team tactics were played out, you can bet they wouldn't even let the thought cross their mind.

Of course that isn't fair either. It's just a really shitty situation all the way around.
Ozzy
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Santa Clarita , CA US
4/28/2009 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:38pm
For me, this is past news.
Onto Vegas!
The "FIM" has balls.
It shows.
They seem to roll strong, & act 1st
rather than later.
The "AMA" is my beef.
No balls.
They roll in every direction,
& act if even at all later & always
questionable.
Been that way for yrs. & yrs.
Again, "Nascar", "No BS allowed".
Huge balls.
Acts quickly, & deep penalties are seen.
Making the same mistakes there isn't common.
Here, it's comical at times.
Over & over, & handled different every time.
That's the problem.
And your correct, infractions happen each & every week.
It's how you handle it all that matters.
That's very fixable!
Dave O.Wink







Void Main
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US
4/28/2009 1:45pm
jeffro756 wrote:
It was absolutely fair, and I bet the suspension comes in to play because they would be worried about it happening again. I have said it...
It was absolutely fair, and I bet the suspension comes in to play because they would be worried about it happening again.

I have said it before, someone like chisolm doesn't do that on his own accord, he was asked or payed to do it. I doubt the stewart camp was involved, but I doubt that it would have stopped there if given another chance. Obviously all of that giberish is just my opinion!
huck wrote:
You think maybe Dean and R-acer paid Kyle to do it?



Cause if they did it might have some bearing on the legitimacy of a particular bet?
huck
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4/28/2009 1:47pm
-eagle- wrote:
How about 18 punting 800 at daytona and nothing happened. If that would have been 338, he would have been executed on the spot. Its convenient...
How about 18 punting 800 at daytona and nothing happened.
If that would have been 338, he would have been executed on the spot.
Its convenient to apply vague rules at your own discretion.
Was 18 down a lap?
SteveS
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WV US
4/28/2009 2:01pm
peelout719 wrote:
you think fining KC five large is harsh?

think of the hundreds of thousands that move "POTENTIALLY" cost Chad Reed.

stfu please
jbomx363 wrote:
No.. I don't care about the cash. I care about the suspension being for an additional for the minimal contact. This is a case where the...
No.. I don't care about the cash.

I care about the suspension being for an additional for the minimal contact.

This is a case where the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Everyone has their opinion on it, that's mine. If he wanted to punt Reed, he wouldn't have gotten on the binders so hard. I see that people are saying that was an odd line choice going in the turn, well I say Reeds was an odd line choice going in the turn with Bubba. Both worked and I have nothing against either riders actions.
The penalty wasn't for the contact. That's where you and so many others are missing the point. The penalty is for not giving the leaders a clear track to race on when you are a lonely lapper being shown the blue flag. The contact just made it that much more flagrant, particularly when you thread the needle between your teammate and his opponent.
jbomx363
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Denham Springs, LA US
4/28/2009 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:38pm
The penalty is for not giving the leaders a clear track to race on when you are a lonely lapper being shown the blue flag


If that was true, you can give out a bunch of penalties throughout the year dude.


I was on the floor in N.O. and there were quite a few that ignored the blue flag completely.


And quite honestly, maybe they should set some type of written penalty for breaking a rule, such as; "if you do this ________, your penalty is this ________" Instead of leaving it (penalty) so wide open for interpretation by some influenced officials.

And with that... I've now let it go. Ha.


IceMan
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US
4/28/2009 2:15pm
Well think about this...what if there were two or three riders fighting for the privateer award in vegas. Do they pull over and let the leaders by with a chance of giving up there posistion? or do they keep racing at race pace even though they are lappers and make the leaders find a way bye? That privateer award is huge for those guys, that could be the difference of them racing the nationals or not in the next month. And if one of them pulls out of the way and the rest dont they could possibly lose there chance at that bonus. The first thing I was taught by my dad when I started riding was stick to your line when you hear someone faster coming up and they will find away by as they are faster then you. What KC did was very immature and flagrant but they need to allow the lappers to race for posistion as well. There has to be a balance of sorts for both sides. The privateers (which are the lappers most of the time) are essential to this sport and they cannot afford to pay that fine if they are racing for posistion and do not move out of the way of the leaders. The leaders are not the only people racing.
txmxer
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Weatherford, TX US
4/28/2009 2:23pm
IceMan wrote:
Well think about this...what if there were two or three riders fighting for the privateer award in vegas. Do they pull over and let the leaders...
Well think about this...what if there were two or three riders fighting for the privateer award in vegas. Do they pull over and let the leaders by with a chance of giving up there posistion? or do they keep racing at race pace even though they are lappers and make the leaders find a way bye? That privateer award is huge for those guys, that could be the difference of them racing the nationals or not in the next month. And if one of them pulls out of the way and the rest dont they could possibly lose there chance at that bonus. The first thing I was taught by my dad when I started riding was stick to your line when you hear someone faster coming up and they will find away by as they are faster then you. What KC did was very immature and flagrant but they need to allow the lappers to race for posistion as well. There has to be a balance of sorts for both sides. The privateers (which are the lappers most of the time) are essential to this sport and they cannot afford to pay that fine if they are racing for posistion and do not move out of the way of the leaders. The leaders are not the only people racing.
I think you are right. It's a tough situation.

That's why they don't have an explicit "If you do this, your penalty is this". It's a judgment call. It's racing. Rarely are these issues going to be black and white.
SteveS
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WV US
4/28/2009 2:59pm
KC may have been in a points race for the season, but in no way was he in a wheel to wheel race on the track at the time the leaders came by. He even took the time to stop for Stewart to go by the corner before the "incident".

Had the riders he was competing with for the privateer award been right with him on the track, racing for position, nobody would say anything if he held up the leaders for a moment or a corner or two because he himself was trying to race someone. That sort of thing happens commonly.
Titan
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Lehi, UT US
4/28/2009 3:04pm
IceMan wrote:
I agree 500guy and JLAW executed an actual take out move. KC got a little rubber on the side of Reeds swing arm and everyone is...
I agree 500guy and JLAW executed an actual take out move. KC got a little rubber on the side of Reeds swing arm and everyone is crying take out. I think the move Reed put on James was more then what KC did to Reed. Not saying it was right or not but there have been way worse hits that have gone unpunished. Mudflaps and Alessi hit comes to mind at daytona.
Neither DM or MA were lappers at the time of the incident...they were racing for position and got together...KC was a lap down, and screwed with one of the two title contenders...that is the difference.
IceMan
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US
4/28/2009 3:32pm
SteveS wrote:
KC may have been in a points race for the season, but in no way was he in a wheel to wheel race on the track...
KC may have been in a points race for the season, but in no way was he in a wheel to wheel race on the track at the time the leaders came by. He even took the time to stop for Stewart to go by the corner before the "incident".

Had the riders he was competing with for the privateer award been right with him on the track, racing for position, nobody would say anything if he held up the leaders for a moment or a corner or two because he himself was trying to race someone. That sort of thing happens commonly.
I didnt say KC was racing or battling with anyone at the time...What i am saying is if this problem happens during a situation like that what will the AMA do? They never make the same ruling and those privateers are racing for something that is as important to them as the championship is to Reed or Stewart. Those two are riding at levels so far above everyone else that there is possibly a chance one of them can go down because of a lapper but the lappers are also riding and racing for points themselves. There are just too many rulings handed out by the AMA that dont make any sense and if that were to happen to another privateer there is no way he could pay the 5000 dollar fine on their own.
Titan
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Lehi, UT US
4/28/2009 3:34pm
SteveS wrote:
KC may have been in a points race for the season, but in no way was he in a wheel to wheel race on the track...
KC may have been in a points race for the season, but in no way was he in a wheel to wheel race on the track at the time the leaders came by. He even took the time to stop for Stewart to go by the corner before the "incident".

Had the riders he was competing with for the privateer award been right with him on the track, racing for position, nobody would say anything if he held up the leaders for a moment or a corner or two because he himself was trying to race someone. That sort of thing happens commonly.
IceMan wrote:
I didnt say KC was racing or battling with anyone at the time...What i am saying is if this problem happens during a situation like that...
I didnt say KC was racing or battling with anyone at the time...What i am saying is if this problem happens during a situation like that what will the AMA do? They never make the same ruling and those privateers are racing for something that is as important to them as the championship is to Reed or Stewart. Those two are riding at levels so far above everyone else that there is possibly a chance one of them can go down because of a lapper but the lappers are also riding and racing for points themselves. There are just too many rulings handed out by the AMA that dont make any sense and if that were to happen to another privateer there is no way he could pay the 5000 dollar fine on their own.
What ever you say Mr. Hepler...
IceMan
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US
4/28/2009 3:40pm
IceMan wrote:
I agree 500guy and JLAW executed an actual take out move. KC got a little rubber on the side of Reeds swing arm and everyone is...
I agree 500guy and JLAW executed an actual take out move. KC got a little rubber on the side of Reeds swing arm and everyone is crying take out. I think the move Reed put on James was more then what KC did to Reed. Not saying it was right or not but there have been way worse hits that have gone unpunished. Mudflaps and Alessi hit comes to mind at daytona.
Titan wrote:
Neither DM or MA were lappers at the time of the incident...they were racing for position and got together...KC was a lap down, and screwed with...
Neither DM or MA were lappers at the time of the incident...they were racing for position and got together...KC was a lap down, and screwed with one of the two title contenders...that is the difference.
Well what DM did was as blatant as what KC did or JLAW did. They both got fined and suspended and DM gets nothing. Its not about the posistion its about the action and a take out is a take out. But DM did what he had to do to get by MA. But if JLAW gets fined and suspended then do the same for DM. Hannah must be shitting his pants right now. He would take out a rider and himself just to prove a point that you dont fuck with him. If that were to happen now everyone would be on here crying how Reed or Stewart got "TAKEN OUT"

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