STIC Metering block Jetting

STIC
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STIC 9/23/2018 1:27pm
9/23/2018 1:27pm
Yotam: I believe we have your issue resolved; just waiting for your decision. George
Hcallz5
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Hcallz5 9/23/2018 9:00pm
9/23/2018 9:00pm
I'd love to try one of these things but it seems like people are having a hell of a time.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 9/23/2018 9:19pm
9/23/2018 9:19pm
No more of a hell of a time than the numerous jetting threads for the other carbs out there.
STIC
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STIC 9/23/2018 9:35pm
9/23/2018 9:35pm
I am proud to say for the most part the STIC metering block is plug and play right out of the box when you purchase direct from STIC HEADQUARTERS. The only problem is understanding how it works; this is a completely new invention that will bring Two- Stroke engines to a new level of performance. The new STIC can be ordered with a new Keihin A/S 38mm carburetor carburetor with the STIC metering block installed. Even though the STIC will fit the 36mm carburetor; the carburetor should be a 38mm. The only reason some manufacturers use the smaller carburetor is due to a weak differential pressure. The STIC creates its own differential pressure; it does not require wings, no power jets. As you see the hundreds of reviews you will be shocked as to how good it is; just folllow the instructions and be prepared to learn this new system; call or email for details and a new experi in the ultimate in performance. George

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CSAR FE
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CSAR FE 9/24/2018 6:36pm
9/24/2018 6:36pm
Hcallz5 wrote:
I'd love to try one of these things but it seems like people are having a hell of a time.
Its not a hell of a time if you change your thought process on jetting. The STIC is not the same, but once you figure it out (or just listen to George in the first place), its no worse than jetting a normal carb. If anything, its probably easier.
Yotam
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Yotam 11/15/2018 1:51pm
11/15/2018 1:51pm
Hi everybody along this period i did few things to make the STIC run.

so, as George recommended i moved the to PWK 38mm.
it was taken off Yamaha YZ 2017, i did deactivated the power jet as i have been told and then installed the STIC whilst making sure it sits well in its groove nice and sealed.

the initial set up was 190 main, 52 pilot & N3EJ second clip, this is the set up that Derek Haris told me for the 38 (for 36 he said 180main & rest the same) and it was terrible the bike didnt run as good.
i started to go leaner and leaner now i am on 182 main. 48 pilot & N3EJ second clip it became better but stll feels like the bike is too rich down low.
checked reeds, air box and all the staff around, the OEM carb still feels better with throttle response on low RPMs
but i still insist to make this STIC work because except of the low RPMs the bike runs very clean.

so my question is: how lean can i go without risking my engine?
can i go to 180 main, NOZH needle (does NOZH consider as leaner than the N3EJ?)?
the 36mm carb with same settings felt better than now.
how can i tell weather i am too lean or not?
is there any rules i should fall when i am jetting my carb with STIC?

BR8ES
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BR8ES 11/15/2018 3:08pm
11/15/2018 3:08pm
How many turns out?
809
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809 11/15/2018 3:44pm
11/15/2018 3:44pm
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith at KP Racing. I haven't seen an issue like this that wasn't easily resolved. What is your fuel/oil and ratio? Have you done a leak down test to make sure the engine is solid?
Yotam
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Yotam 11/15/2018 11:29pm
11/15/2018 11:29pm
BR8ES wrote:
How many turns out?
4 turns
Bog when you hit full throttle means it is too lean or too rich?
Yotam
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Yotam 11/15/2018 11:33pm
11/15/2018 11:33pm
809 wrote:
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith...
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith at KP Racing. I haven't seen an issue like this that wasn't easily resolved. What is your fuel/oil and ratio? Have you done a leak down test to make sure the engine is solid?
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it
The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more
Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got improved (i ride enduro)
My bike is CR125 has 160 hours since new from the box

My only problem is big bog when i hit full throttle on low RPM.
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 12:38am
11/16/2018 12:38am
809 wrote:
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith...
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith at KP Racing. I haven't seen an issue like this that wasn't easily resolved. What is your fuel/oil and ratio? Have you done a leak down test to make sure the engine is solid?
Yotam wrote:
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got...
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it
The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more
Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got improved (i ride enduro)
My bike is CR125 has 160 hours since new from the box

My only problem is big bog when i hit full throttle on low RPM.
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main, and a 48 pilot ?
Yotam
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Yotam 11/16/2018 12:52am
11/16/2018 12:52am
809 wrote:
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith...
I have to believe there is something else going on. I have researched these things for a while now, and even talked to George and Keith at KP Racing. I haven't seen an issue like this that wasn't easily resolved. What is your fuel/oil and ratio? Have you done a leak down test to make sure the engine is solid?
Yotam wrote:
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got...
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it
The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more
Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got improved (i ride enduro)
My bike is CR125 has 160 hours since new from the box

My only problem is big bog when i hit full throttle on low RPM.
digger wrote:
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main...
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main, and a 48 pilot ?
Yep
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 1:05am
11/16/2018 1:05am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2018 1:06am
Yotam wrote:
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got...
The problem is me trying to learn jetting thats it
The STIC is awesome, the bike revs more
Feel lot crisp and even fuel consumption got improved (i ride enduro)
My bike is CR125 has 160 hours since new from the box

My only problem is big bog when i hit full throttle on low RPM.
digger wrote:
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main...
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main, and a 48 pilot ?
Yotam wrote:
Yep
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make work in that bike, Honda cr125,with a 38mm PWK AS, with the #7 slide, was the single taper series CCK or the slightly leaner CCL needle. With the single taper CCK or CCL needle you'll want to start out with that 52 pilot and at least a 192 main when using a the STIC jet block.
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Yotam 11/16/2018 1:08am
11/16/2018 1:08am
digger wrote:
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main...
Are you saying the bike bogs when you open the throttle quickly from an idle, with the jetting you have listed above,N3EJ needle #2, 182 main, and a 48 pilot ?
Yotam wrote:
Yep
digger wrote:
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make...
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make work in that bike, Honda cr125,with a 38mm PWK AS, with the #7 slide, was the single taper series CCK or the slightly leaner CCL needle. With the single taper CCK or CCL needle you'll want to start out with that 52 pilot and at least a 192 main when using a the STIC jet block.
If i am too lean, then why going down from 190 main 52 pilot to: 182 main and 48 pilot maid the bike run little more clean?
(Same needle)
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 2:08am
11/16/2018 2:08am
Yotam wrote:
Yep
digger wrote:
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make...
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make work in that bike, Honda cr125,with a 38mm PWK AS, with the #7 slide, was the single taper series CCK or the slightly leaner CCL needle. With the single taper CCK or CCL needle you'll want to start out with that 52 pilot and at least a 192 main when using a the STIC jet block.
Yotam wrote:
If i am too lean, then why going down from 190 main 52 pilot to: 182 main and 48 pilot maid the bike run little more...
If i am too lean, then why going down from 190 main 52 pilot to: 182 main and 48 pilot maid the bike run little more clean?
(Same needle)
The 48 pilot and 182 main are the right sized for that series needle, to get it to run decent, with the exception of the OIH, off idle hesitation, but you are never going to be able to get rid of the bog on the lower throttle settings with that series needle, and especially with that J starting diameter. I have tried using an N3EG needle, which is 3 steps richer than the N3EJ, with no success in an 07' cr125.
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Yotam 11/16/2018 2:17am
11/16/2018 2:17am
digger wrote:
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make...
The needle that you are using, N3EJ, is too lean on the starting diameter. The only currently available needle that I was ever able to make work in that bike, Honda cr125,with a 38mm PWK AS, with the #7 slide, was the single taper series CCK or the slightly leaner CCL needle. With the single taper CCK or CCL needle you'll want to start out with that 52 pilot and at least a 192 main when using a the STIC jet block.
Yotam wrote:
If i am too lean, then why going down from 190 main 52 pilot to: 182 main and 48 pilot maid the bike run little more...
If i am too lean, then why going down from 190 main 52 pilot to: 182 main and 48 pilot maid the bike run little more clean?
(Same needle)
digger wrote:
The 48 pilot and 182 main are the right sized for that series needle, to get it to run decent, with the exception of the OIH...
The 48 pilot and 182 main are the right sized for that series needle, to get it to run decent, with the exception of the OIH, off idle hesitation, but you are never going to be able to get rid of the bog on the lower throttle settings with that series needle, and especially with that J starting diameter. I have tried using an N3EG needle, which is 3 steps richer than the N3EJ, with no success in an 07' cr125.
So what is the solution?
I need to get reed off the OIH what ever it takes
Should I replace the needle with NOZH or NOZG?
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 2:38am
11/16/2018 2:38am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2018 2:39am
Yotam wrote:
So what is the solution?
I need to get reed off the OIH what ever it takes
Should I replace the needle with NOZH or NOZG?
Those needles won't work for you either, for various reasons. Yes, I've tried that series needle as well.
You need a CCK needle to start out with and also get the slightly leaner CCL as well. CCK https://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/017_463_su.html
CCL https://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/017_464_su.html
Yotam
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Yotam 11/16/2018 7:56am
11/16/2018 7:56am Edited Date/Time 11/16/2018 7:58am
Yotam wrote:
So what is the solution?
I need to get reed off the OIH what ever it takes
Should I replace the needle with NOZH or NOZG?
digger wrote:
Those needles won't work for you either, for various reasons. Yes, I've tried that series needle as well. You need a CCK needle to start out...
Those needles won't work for you either, for various reasons. Yes, I've tried that series needle as well.
You need a CCK needle to start out with and also get the slightly leaner CCL as well. CCK https://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/017_463_su.html
CCL https://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/017_464_su.html
Well, I’ve been told by George & Derek that all the troubles starts and end with the carb diameter and N3EJ needle so That’s what i did.
I also live in Israel and every time i need something exotic like this i need to find someone who ship overseas and then wait 1 month until i get it...
so i rather try to solve it with what i have now
N3EW, N3CW, NOZH, NECJ, NOZG, N1EF, N1EG
165-190 main
42,48,52 pilot
That’s what i have, and first i need to start by knowing what causes boging on low RPM, is it too lean or too rich

Pit Row

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digger
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digger 11/16/2018 12:05pm
11/16/2018 12:05pm Edited Date/Time 11/16/2018 5:51pm
Yotam wrote:
Well, I’ve been told by George & Derek that all the troubles starts and end with the carb diameter and N3EJ needle so That’s what i...
Well, I’ve been told by George & Derek that all the troubles starts and end with the carb diameter and N3EJ needle so That’s what i did.
I also live in Israel and every time i need something exotic like this i need to find someone who ship overseas and then wait 1 month until i get it...
so i rather try to solve it with what i have now
N3EW, N3CW, NOZH, NECJ, NOZG, N1EF, N1EG
165-190 main
42,48,52 pilot
That’s what i have, and first i need to start by knowing what causes boging on low RPM, is it too lean or too rich
They are correct.The needle is the most important tuning aspect in the carb. EVERYTHING gets tuned around it. Unfortunately for you none of the needles you have listed above will get rid of the OIH you are experiencing now. The NOZx and N1Ex needle are the exact tapers with the N1Ex being 1/2 clip position richer than the NOZx needles. Both are triple taper needles. The N3Ew and N3Cw needle are merely 1/2 clip position difference needles, and the NECJ is similar, taper wise to the NOZx and N1Ex needles,but has a longer straight section and a leaner starting diameter, but tapers 2 and 3 are the exact same. The only needles that I know of that really work except able to me, in the 38mm Keihin AS equipped cr125 are the CCK and CCL needles along with a Honda 685/ 289 or the leaner 294 version of that needle. That needle is now obsolete through Honda. JD jetting also makes a needle that works well in the Keihin equipped Honda cr125 as well.
809
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809 11/16/2018 3:47pm
11/16/2018 3:47pm
I may have a Honda 289 needle, if you're interested I will check
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 5:55pm
11/16/2018 5:55pm
809 wrote:
I may have a Honda 289 needle, if you're interested I will check
He would need a 685 needle. The 289 and 294 refer to the clip height of the needle. All of the usable Honda triple taper needles, regardless of starting diameter have either a 289 or 294 clip height.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 11/16/2018 7:42pm
11/16/2018 7:42pm
the N3EJ works very in my 125 and 250 with a STIC equipped Keihin. Hope Yotam gets it sorted, may want to go back to stock for now if it that stressful. Not sure what is happening.
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 8:55pm
11/16/2018 8:55pm
BR8ES wrote:
the N3EJ works very in my 125 and 250 with a STIC equipped Keihin. Hope Yotam gets it sorted, may want to go back to stock...
the N3EJ works very in my 125 and 250 with a STIC equipped Keihin. Hope Yotam gets it sorted, may want to go back to stock for now if it that stressful. Not sure what is happening.
I'm betting you are not using a J diameter needle in a Honda cr125 ? An N3EJ in a cr250 works very well, but is borderline lean in sub 60 deg temps. The cr125 just isn't efficient enough at low rpm's to be able to use that series needle in a J diameter or any diameter. The only small bore you could get away with that series needle in a J diameter is a KTM/ Husky. They have a much more efficient design.
1
Yotam
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Yotam 11/16/2018 9:13pm
11/16/2018 9:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/16/2018 9:17pm
Thanks 809
If digger is right, i guess 289 won’t work for me

Digger: i can put my hand on complete JD jet kit for keihin
Is it worth trying?
What set up could work?

BR8ES: it’s too late to go back now after purchasing 2 new carbs and STIC block isn’t it?
any way, Derek also recommended to go with the N3EJ, but it doesn’t work...
Maybe they’re experience is mainly with the 250’s i am not sure
Any way, i am not experienced with jetting this might be the main route cause, I didn’t even know the CCK, CCL series
digger
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digger 11/16/2018 10:37pm
11/16/2018 10:37pm
Yotam wrote:
Thanks 809 If digger is right, i guess 289 won’t work for me Digger: i can put my hand on complete JD jet kit for keihin...
Thanks 809
If digger is right, i guess 289 won’t work for me

Digger: i can put my hand on complete JD jet kit for keihin
Is it worth trying?
What set up could work?

BR8ES: it’s too late to go back now after purchasing 2 new carbs and STIC block isn’t it?
any way, Derek also recommended to go with the N3EJ, but it doesn’t work...
Maybe they’re experience is mainly with the 250’s i am not sure
Any way, i am not experienced with jetting this might be the main route cause, I didn’t even know the CCK, CCL series
I believe it's an optional needle that he sells specifically for small bore bikes using a Keihin PWK carb. You will need to call or email JD jetting to find out which kit it is in. I was given that needle to try and it works very well. The guy I got the needle from didn't know what bike the needle was made for, as he was sent only the needle from JD to try.
Talisker
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Talisker 11/17/2018 4:06am
11/17/2018 4:06am
Can you run the STIC on pump gas? Is race gas required?
H4L
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H4L 11/17/2018 6:30am
11/17/2018 6:30am
Talisker wrote:
Can you run the STIC on pump gas? Is race gas required?
It really depends on the comp. of the engine. The STIC is a fuel metering block that helps enhance the fuel delivery system in the carb.. Based on the info on the net I've seen it requires the MJ to be moved 3-4 sizes richer.
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BR8ES 11/17/2018 8:47am
11/17/2018 8:47am
BR8ES wrote:
the N3EJ works very in my 125 and 250 with a STIC equipped Keihin. Hope Yotam gets it sorted, may want to go back to stock...
the N3EJ works very in my 125 and 250 with a STIC equipped Keihin. Hope Yotam gets it sorted, may want to go back to stock for now if it that stressful. Not sure what is happening.
digger wrote:
I'm betting you are not using a J diameter needle in a Honda cr125 ? An N3EJ in a cr250 works very well, but is borderline...
I'm betting you are not using a J diameter needle in a Honda cr125 ? An N3EJ in a cr250 works very well, but is borderline lean in sub 60 deg temps. The cr125 just isn't efficient enough at low rpm's to be able to use that series needle in a J diameter or any diameter. The only small bore you could get away with that series needle in a J diameter is a KTM/ Husky. They have a much more efficient design.
No, I am not. You know your stuff for sure
BR8ES
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BR8ES 11/17/2018 8:51am
11/17/2018 8:51am
No, I am not. You know your stuff for sure

Edit. There is a guy on another board running the N3EJ on a Honda and says it runs great, but that must isolated? Yotam should listen to Digger. Worth trying at the minimum.
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Yotam 11/17/2018 8:57am
11/17/2018 8:57am Edited Date/Time 11/17/2018 8:59am
BR8ES wrote:
No, I am not. You know your stuff for sure Edit. There is a guy on another board running the N3EJ on a Honda and says...
No, I am not. You know your stuff for sure

Edit. There is a guy on another board running the N3EJ on a Honda and says it runs great, but that must isolated? Yotam should listen to Digger. Worth trying at the minimum.
BR8ES, what do you recommend?
Tomorrow i am gonna spend the whole day for try different jettings
So, i will be glad to hear what you think that could be the best first step
Current set up; 182, 48, N3EJ 2nd clip, 4 turns on air screw
As i said Bike is boging when i hit the throttle on very low rpms, if i let it rise up a little the rpms it goes good

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