Seat Bounce. Fact or Fiction?

Alex
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3/12/2009 5:25am
your funny
txmxer
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3/12/2009 6:01am
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
txmxer wrote:
look who shows up...just for a seat bounce thread...careful. You'll get sucked in to the vortex!!! Once again...go take a physics class and learn just a...
look who shows up...just for a seat bounce thread...careful. You'll get sucked in to the vortex!!!

Once again...go take a physics class and learn just a minuscule bit about Hookes law.

Not saying that the spring always returns energy to the system, but it's definitely possible. In the case of the photos, he using his body weight to keep the rear end fully loaded past the crest of the jump and prevent the spring from unloading.

Hookes law
Racetime wrote:
Hooke's law doesn't help. It only describes force. The spring pushes against parts of the bike, not the ground. The system is what we are interested...
Hooke's law doesn't help.

It only describes force. The spring pushes against parts of the bike, not the ground.

The system is what we are interested in, and it contains a damped spring, not a perfect spring.

Plus you want to do an energy balance, and set the system up right, not calculate forces.

We used to make fun of you guys in engineering school.

Smile


geezus...idiot time.

A damped spring can't rebound? Where did you get your degree? Sesame street?

It only describes force. The spring pushes against parts of the bike, not the ground.

Ever hear of a lever genius? Do you really work as an engineer again? In 20 years as a professional engineer I've never met anyone that is both as arrogant and yet incompetent as you are.

Smile

Yep...all the fat kids with borderline personalities in engineering school that spent there time spanking it and trying understand why I made better grades than them were making fun of me...yep...you bet.
Racer92
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3/12/2009 6:04am
Fight - Fight - Fight
Racetime
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3/12/2009 6:06am
Nice try.

I'm right.

Look at the problem again.

I aced my dynamics class, BTW. I know what I'm talking about, you don't.

The Shop

txmxer
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3/12/2009 6:21am
Racetime wrote:
Nice try.

I'm right.

Look at the problem again.

I aced my dynamics class, BTW. I know what I'm talking about, you don't.

show me your report card...

an energy balance? How would you possibly account for losses? You couldn't. It would be pointless.

And it is a simple matter of forces. The only question out there is if the compressed spring can do work. You don't need an energy balance to that. It's extremely simple.

Maybe you are just too smart...we all know really smart guys that don't have a lick of common sense. They see the car isn't running...tear it down to the pistons to find out they didn't have any gas in the tank.

You got nothing in your argument other than arrogance.

Can a compressed spring do work? Easy question...should be an easy answer. Can you do it???
CamP
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3/12/2009 6:34am
Teefus is right for the most part. The seat bounce technique does nothing more than allow the bike to leave the jump face at an angle equal to the steepest part of the jump, whereas a standing rider's legs absorb some of the vertical lift off the jump face which lowers the trajectory of the bike.
Racetime
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3/12/2009 6:36am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:54pm
Can a compressed spring do work?


Work = force times distance, of course.


You neglect the reality of the problem. It takes work to compress the spring already. Then the release of the spring is damped. This is to prevent the wheel from hopping. Oddly enough, the old seat bounce argument is really saying that the wheel suddenly hops.


It makes no sense.


MX bikes don't pogo, because they are designed not to.


You guys talk among yourselves and I will be back later to check your work. I gotta go make rockets for America.... "Oh say can you seee..."

flarider
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3/12/2009 6:44am
Seat bounce is not achieved through a "bounce," but is achieved through trajectory change and acceleration.
Sitting down and compressing the rear suspension creates a more vertical angle of the bike on the jump face, that, combined with acceleration (thrust), creates a more vertical (and higher) leap.
If the spring and its stored energy were capable of creating such rebounding force that it could bounce bike and man over jumps, it would also flip ass over end in the whoops when the rear suspension compressed and rebounded, unless of course your believe that rear suspension magically knows the difference between whoops, jumps and when it's "seat bounce time"
CamP
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3/12/2009 6:46am
What Dave said...
Camp332
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3/12/2009 6:53am
Seat Bounce!
GIwasB4
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3/12/2009 6:56am
You guys talk among yourselves and I will be back later to check your work. I gotta go make rockets for America.... "Oh say can you seee..."

I stated that there were a lot of Motosnoozer's in here lurking as of late. I think its recession related.

I agree with Flarider
txmxer
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3/12/2009 7:00am
sort of...what you said Cam...there are two parts to the suspension. The bikes and the riders. If the legs aren't absorbing the energy from the spring you get your flying W.

Imagine hitting the whoops at full tilt. Legs locked. What happens? Over the bars you go.

It's not a "magic" spring. And it's not about where the energy comes from. It's simple physics. If the spring is loaded to the point it cannot over come the forces applied, it will have no affect. Damping is irrelevant. If spring is not overloaded, then it will have an affect. Are there other elements to the technique? Yes. Altering the trajectory? Sure.

Ever hear of the suspension packing up? That's due to an over damped spring or too soft.
ToddO
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3/12/2009 7:04am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2009 7:05am
Looks like a single-to-table with induced baby arm. End of story.
WORCSRacer
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3/12/2009 7:09am
flarider wrote:
No offense to any pro rider, but most all of them have minimum educations, do you really expect any of them to be able to effectively...
No offense to any pro rider, but most all of them have minimum educations, do you really expect any of them to be able to effectively understand and explain mechanical engineering and physics?
Yep most Pro riders are more interested in riding and the practical applications of technique rather than worrying if they can explain the science behind it.

WORCSRacer
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3/12/2009 7:25am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:54pm
Racetime wrote:
Can a compressed spring do work? Work = force times distance, of course. You neglect the reality of the problem. It takes work to compress the...
Can a compressed spring do work?


Work = force times distance, of course.


You neglect the reality of the problem. It takes work to compress the spring already. Then the release of the spring is damped. This is to prevent the wheel from hopping. Oddly enough, the old seat bounce argument is really saying that the wheel suddenly hops.


It makes no sense.


MX bikes don't pogo, because they are designed not to.


You guys talk among yourselves and I will be back later to check your work. I gotta go make rockets for America.... "Oh say can you seee..."

How do you account for the spring being set for rider weight and when that rider unweights himself from the bike or using momentum to direct his accelerated body mass into the bike's spring and there by overload it compared to the otherwise ambient force of the obstacle?


No the spring isn't going rocket you up but you cannot dispute it does in fact return, in a controlled fashion, its stored energy (less energy converted to heat in the shock) and that can and does affect your jump.
88sdad
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3/12/2009 7:45am
GIwasB4 wrote:
[i]You guys talk among yourselves and I will be back later to check your work. I gotta go make rockets for America.... "Oh say can you...
You guys talk among yourselves and I will be back later to check your work. I gotta go make rockets for America.... "Oh say can you seee..."

I stated that there were a lot of Motosnoozer's in here lurking as of late. I think its recession related.

I agree with Flarider
x2
Racetime
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3/12/2009 8:00am
I agree with flarider....

Smile
stillwelding
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3/12/2009 8:23am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2009 8:25am
flarider wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/assets/stories/13433/1581/popup/Reed-Daytona-Cox-2009-050.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.racerxonline.com/assets/stories/13433/1581/popup/Reed-Daytona-Cox-2009-051.JPG[/img] Discuss




Discuss
TFS is rollin' over in his Space Shuttle sarcophagus. Tongue Sorry Teefus. Didn't see your post. Alive and well in Alabama. Any jobs in Rocket City for former Rocketdyne weldors?
stillwelding
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3/12/2009 8:28am
txmxer wrote:
geezus...idiot time. A damped spring can't rebound? Where did you get your degree? Sesame street? [i]It only describes force. The spring pushes against parts of the...
geezus...idiot time.

A damped spring can't rebound? Where did you get your degree? Sesame street?

It only describes force. The spring pushes against parts of the bike, not the ground.

Ever hear of a lever genius? Do you really work as an engineer again? In 20 years as a professional engineer I've never met anyone that is both as arrogant and yet incompetent as you are.

Smile

Yep...all the fat kids with borderline personalities in engineering school that spent there time spanking it and trying understand why I made better grades than them were making fun of me...yep...you bet.
TMxer, I can tell from your comment about Teefus that you've never worked at a NASA facility. Sick
stillwelding
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3/12/2009 8:30am
Racetime wrote:
Can a compressed spring do work? Work = force times distance, of course. You neglect the reality of the problem. It takes work to compress the...
Can a compressed spring do work?


Work = force times distance, of course.


You neglect the reality of the problem. It takes work to compress the spring already. Then the release of the spring is damped. This is to prevent the wheel from hopping. Oddly enough, the old seat bounce argument is really saying that the wheel suddenly hops.


It makes no sense.


MX bikes don't pogo, because they are designed not to.


You guys talk among yourselves and I will be back later to check your work. I gotta go make rockets for America.... "Oh say can you seee..."

"Oh say can you seeee..." why the Challenger blew up. With engineers like this behind the wheel. Laughing
SteveS
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3/12/2009 8:42am
Blow up? Heck, this week they couldn't even get one off the ground because it was leaking.
peelout719
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3/12/2009 8:44am
i seat bounced my chick this morning before leaving for work.

fact.
txmxer
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3/12/2009 8:55am
seriously, it's an over complication of simple question. Can the spring do work. The answer is yes. The follow up question is does it do work. The answer to that is "depends". Which is the flaw in TFS/Dave/Cam's and everyone else logic. It's choosing an absolute when there are these odd little things called variables.


Racetime
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3/12/2009 8:57am
SteveS-
Dont be messin with America's space bus!

We are werkin on the new one here anyway.
FreshTopEnd
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3/12/2009 9:00am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:54pm
Racetime wrote:
I agree with flarider....

Smile
The correct terminology is "you're right."

Tongue
Racer92
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3/12/2009 9:00am
Racetime wrote:
SteveS-
Dont be messin with America's space bus!

We are werkin on the new one here anyway.
4-stroke with EFI? Wink
Racetime
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3/12/2009 9:21am
Yeah right.

No EFI, no carb. This thing, you light it and hang on for 2 minutes, no shutoff.
ocscottie
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3/12/2009 9:28am
Racer92
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3/12/2009 9:31am
Racetime wrote:
Yeah right.

No EFI, no carb. This thing, you light it and hang on for 2 minutes, no shutoff.
You know, if you think about it - its downright neanderthal to shoot human beings straight up in the sky on the end of a ballistic missile that is trying its best to come apart and find the weakest link of its construction. To keep doing it is more like russian roulette than cutting edge science.

Slow ~ Pro
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3/12/2009 9:32am
peelout719 wrote:
i seat bounced my chick this morning before leaving for work.

fact.
Yeah, but you didn't get her to the Checkered flag !

DNF !!!

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