Seat Bounce. Fact or Fiction?

raddad
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3/11/2009 5:56pm
I could probably solve all this with telemetry but I really don't care enough.............
I remember you trying to set up a test a few years ago, what happened? Sick of the whole thing?Smile
Slow ~ Pro
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3/11/2009 6:11pm
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd
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3/11/2009 6:28pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
Old Mate
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3/11/2009 6:40pm
Old Mate wrote:
Pushing the backwheel in from a short run off can give extra drive right thru to the last tip of the upramp,without having to change body...
Pushing the backwheel in from a short run off can give extra drive right thru to the last tip of the upramp,without having to change body position from a corner, the preload of the spring can help you stand up and attack again. Just what i coach in Aus anyway.
This looks like he is stopping the preload with his butt to level the bike, It looks like a step on. Take off ramp, then on to the table. I missed the origanal bennifit of a seatbounce thread,so what was the final conclusion.

The Shop

Camp332
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3/11/2009 6:45pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
Slo-Know-It-Not
CR250Rider
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3/11/2009 7:18pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
a plane would NOT take off if it were on a conveyor belt, btw.....
JeffreyD
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La Mirada, CA, USA
3/11/2009 7:41pm
I think we need to coin a new phrase.

Some guys were hitting the first bump, and clearing that whole section.

I think he was 450ing the whole section.
Racetime
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3/11/2009 7:43pm
Does a seat bounce only exist as a metaphysical concept?
KAWboy14
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3/11/2009 7:47pm
JeffreyD wrote:
I think we need to coin a new phrase. Some guys were hitting the first bump, and clearing that whole section. I think he was 450ing...
I think we need to coin a new phrase.

Some guys were hitting the first bump, and clearing that whole section.

I think he was 450ing the whole section.
oh they were scared of the middle? Smile
Void Main
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3/11/2009 7:59pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2009 8:02pm
Looks a little like the way you hit whoops (big whoops) except he's working the hell out of that shock! Looks like a great way to clean the mud off the bottom of your rear fender too. Is that the "Stairway to Heaven"?
txmxer
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3/11/2009 8:00pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
look who shows up...just for a seat bounce thread...careful. You'll get sucked in to the vortex!!!

Once again...go take a physics class and learn just a minuscule bit about Hookes law.

Not saying that the spring always returns energy to the system, but it's definitely possible. In the case of the photos, he using his body weight to keep the rear end fully loaded past the crest of the jump and prevent the spring from unloading.

Hookes law
groggylbc
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Long Beach, CA, USA
3/11/2009 8:54pm
not a seat bounce, just charging!!! to seat bounce, you sit on the seat,(hense "seat" bounce) load the rear suspension and accellerate. as the bike leaves the face of the jump the suspension unloads and springs you farther.
Slow ~ Pro
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3/11/2009 9:09pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2009 9:14pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
Oh...And in that 1/8 second, they remodeled the background ?



Must be Hollywood !

Second half of a double, ...I can see that.
Void Main
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3/11/2009 9:39pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Oh...And in that 1/8 second, they remodeled the background ?



Must be Hollywood !

Second half of a double, ...I can see that.
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove:

https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg

Void Main
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3/11/2009 9:43pm
As a matter of fact the dude's head above the back wheel in the middle of the pic was in exactly the same position in both pictures so either he's a statue or those pictures were taken in a very short time span (somewhere around 1/8 of a second sounds plausible). Smile
manering
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3/11/2009 9:56pm
would have been better with jlaw in the pics
WORCSRacer
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3/11/2009 10:00pm
Who really cares about the physics of the "seatbounce" anyway? Whatever it is it works.
DSteg222
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3/11/2009 10:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:54pm
I would say seat bounce is a fact




super rat
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3/11/2009 10:10pm
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Oh...And in that 1/8 second, they remodeled the background ?



Must be Hollywood !

Second half of a double, ...I can see that.
Void Main wrote:
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove: https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg [img]https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg[/img]
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove:

https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg

The guys name is slowpro, no need to kick a retard when he's down.
DSteg222
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3/11/2009 10:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:54pm
Sorry... changed my mind.... it is fiction... cant be done





Void Main
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3/11/2009 10:14pm
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Oh...And in that 1/8 second, they remodeled the background ?



Must be Hollywood !

Second half of a double, ...I can see that.
Void Main wrote:
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove: https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg [img]https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg[/img]
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove:

https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg

super rat wrote:
The guys name is slowpro, no need to kick a retard when he's down.
He can't help it, he rides a 4-stroke. I filled in the blank parts:

https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no2.jpg

Slow ~ Pro
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3/12/2009 12:27am
Void Main wrote:
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove: https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg [img]https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg[/img]
Actually if you scale the second image to the same scale as the first they fit together like a glove:

https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no.jpg

super rat wrote:
The guys name is slowpro, no need to kick a retard when he's down.
Void Main wrote:
He can't help it, he rides a 4-stroke. I filled in the blank parts: https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no2.jpg [img]https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no2.jpg[/img]
He can't help it, he rides a 4-stroke. I filled in the blank parts:

https://biglenny.gets-it.net/i/seatbounce_no2.jpg

Yep...this completely got past me HA !

I received it as two different photos on two different jumps...I don't know why I just couldn't see it.

Thanx Void...And yes, today I ride a 4-stroke...That's what they give me.
WORCSRacer
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3/12/2009 1:11am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:54pm




Chad's technique on this jump is perfectly described and shown in this clip...
Racetime
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3/12/2009 3:23am
Slow ~ Pro wrote:
Two different jumps !
Two different ways he attacked it...
Nerd wrote:
Actually, those are two photos in sequence, shot less than 1/8 of a second apart, on the same jump.
txmxer wrote:
look who shows up...just for a seat bounce thread...careful. You'll get sucked in to the vortex!!! Once again...go take a physics class and learn just a...
look who shows up...just for a seat bounce thread...careful. You'll get sucked in to the vortex!!!

Once again...go take a physics class and learn just a minuscule bit about Hookes law.

Not saying that the spring always returns energy to the system, but it's definitely possible. In the case of the photos, he using his body weight to keep the rear end fully loaded past the crest of the jump and prevent the spring from unloading.

Hookes law
Hooke's law doesn't help.

It only describes force. The spring pushes against parts of the bike, not the ground.

The system is what we are interested in, and it contains a damped spring, not a perfect spring.

Plus you want to do an energy balance, and set the system up right, not calculate forces.

We used to make fun of you guys in engineering school.

Smile


Racetime
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3/12/2009 3:44am
WORCSRacer wrote:




Chad's technique on this jump is perfectly described and shown in this clip...
Good video, incorrect explanation.

The subject technique is the opposite of a seat bounce. He's getting his CG high instead of low. This minimizes the amount of work required to get over the jump. Less work required equals less energy consumed. Its done to stay low and maintain horizontal momentum.

"Seat bounces" are when you get your weight low, forcing the bike/rider to require more work to get past the jump. Mork work means more energy consumed (actually, translated to increase vertical momentum).

To seat bounce, what you are doing by staying low on the face of a jump is is forcing the system to translate more horizontal momentum to vertical. You could do it without a spring.

The amount of energy released by the spring is equal to the amount of energy consumed in compressing it. The balance is zero. That's why airplanes have wings and engines and not springs.

Notice in the pics, the wheel is at the rear fender, but Reed is standing up. The rebound is exactly the same as if he were sitting and leaning back to "seat bounce." It is impossible that in one case the bike stays level and in one case it leaps up due to the spring when the wheel does exactly the same thing each time relative to the bike.

Its amazing how far an incorrect explanation of physics will go!
moto111
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3/12/2009 4:32am
Discovery Channel have a program where they slow things up using hi speed cameras. They then replay it in slow motion. If a seat bounce were on this program you would see the wheel rim buckle and spring back to shape causing lift independant to the absorption affect stroke
WSR
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3/12/2009 4:56am
Once again, Teffus claims to be the authority on the seat bounce.
I'll be right back, I'm going to get some popcorn.
flarider
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3/12/2009 5:10am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2009 5:10am
No offense to any pro rider, but most all of them have minimum educations, do you really expect any of them to be able to effectively understand and explain mechanical engineering and physics?
Racetime
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3/12/2009 5:14am
moto111 wrote:
Discovery Channel have a program where they slow things up using hi speed cameras. They then replay it in slow motion. If a seat bounce were...
Discovery Channel have a program where they slow things up using hi speed cameras. They then replay it in slow motion. If a seat bounce were on this program you would see the wheel rim buckle and spring back to shape causing lift independant to the absorption affect stroke
Incorrect setup of the problem. It takes energy to buckle the wheel as well. Net effect = zero.
Racetime
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3/12/2009 5:15am
WSR wrote:
Once again, Teffus claims to be the authority on the seat bounce.
I'll be right back, I'm going to get some popcorn.
Damn right!

Everyone believed the magic spring lifting nonsense until I called BS.

I changed history!

Smile

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