Herlings Corner Speed

8/28/2017 10:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 10:16pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
* 2nd moto he'd of [sic] lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed. *

Wait a second, you're taking Musquin's crash out but leaving Herlings' crash in? That's your analysis?

Had Herlings had anything like a normal/clean start (say Top 10), he'd have dusted off Musquin same as everyone else. Anyone who tried to match that pace was either going to back off or crash.



8/28/2017 10:26pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed."

You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell right??
aeffertz
Posts
12428
Joined
7/16/2015
Location
La Crosse, WI US
8/28/2017 10:30pm
jemcee wrote:
Actually no the first guy through is Marvin, Herlings is about 4th through
Oh. You are correct! Impressive riding.

The Shop

jemcee
Posts
12635
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
8/28/2017 10:31pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Yeah it's definitely a stretch to say he dominated.. It's not like his Quali time was 2secs faster and won the first race handily then came from last to win the second race

jemcee
Posts
12635
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
8/28/2017 10:33pm
aeffertz wrote:
Oh. You are correct! Impressive riding.
haha definitely I only realised cause I watched it about 20 times and kept pausing to see exactly how he got through there so seemingly effortlessly
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 10:35pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
* 2nd moto he'd of [sic] lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed. * Wait a second, you're taking Musquin's crash out...
* 2nd moto he'd of [sic] lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed. *

Wait a second, you're taking Musquin's crash out but leaving Herlings' crash in? That's your analysis?

Had Herlings had anything like a normal/clean start (say Top 10), he'd have dusted off Musquin same as everyone else. Anyone who tried to match that pace was either going to back off or crash.



From the 2nd lap (after his crash when he was in like 21st place) until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 20 seconds between herlings and Musquin. He didn't close the gap at all after getting up from his crash until Marvin put it on cruise control. Then the gap dropped to 10 seconds until the crash. And Marvin tracked down a charging Herlings after the crash and was ready to take the lead back before he stalled his bike. Their lap times were very close even after Herlings got into 2nd.

Besides I'm not Saying he didn't deserve the win...he earned it.

And he didn't dust Musquin the 1st moto when he had a good start...he won by like 6 seconds.

Anyway, my point is that before I watched the race, reading everyones comments here I was expecting him to be like 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone! And he wasn't. He was basically the same speed as Marvin, and had no other competition (Tomac riding for the title, and Bagget has the thumb issue, Roczen out, Anderson Out)...he was impressive, he's a bad dude, on the podium for fastest men in the world, and would easily battle for a championship here, but I think a lot of people are making a lot more of his performance than it warrants (just my opinion, anyone is free to disagree).
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 10:39pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed." You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell...
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed."

You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell right??
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same.

Speaking of Herlings crash...is there any footage of it any place? I haven't seen it. I saw on Tab he made it through the first turn.
Sodipop
Posts
863
Joined
5/10/2016
Location
Petaluma, CA US
8/28/2017 10:41pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed." You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell...
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed."

You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell right??
Titan1 wrote:
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same. Speaking of...
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same.

Speaking of Herlings crash...is there any footage of it any place? I haven't seen it. I saw on Tab he made it through the first turn.
You are on glue if you think Marvin was in cruise control. Herlings got faster later in the race.
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 10:45pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
jemcee wrote:
Yeah it's definitely a stretch to say he dominated.. It's not like his Quali time was 2secs faster and won the first race handily then came...
Yeah it's definitely a stretch to say he dominated.. It's not like his Quali time was 2secs faster and won the first race handily then came from last to win the second race

Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and Bagget are on Herlings level on their best day anyway though) all he had was Marvin...look at the lap times, very very close, Marvin has his pace. And he only won the first moto by like 6 seconds, I don't call that "handily"...but even if you do, "handily" isnt dominating (right...which is my point)?

Look at the gaps between Herlings and Musquin from lap 2 until Marvin puts it on cruise control with about 2 or 3 laps left. The gap fluctuated between 15 and 20 seconds. Only after Marvin put it on cruise control did the gap drop to 10 seconds (before his crash). Marvin has Herlings pace.
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 10:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 10:58pm
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed." You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell...
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed."

You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell right??
Titan1 wrote:
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same. Speaking of...
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same.

Speaking of Herlings crash...is there any footage of it any place? I haven't seen it. I saw on Tab he made it through the first turn.
Sodipop wrote:
You are on glue if you think Marvin was in cruise control. Herlings got faster later in the race.
He admitted that he did. I'm basing that on what he said.


And look at his last 6 laps...and 2:10's...prior to that he was 2:09's or 2:08's (with 3 exceptions early in the race)...lap times show he backed it down...he had a 2:21 the lap he crashed...cost him 10 seconds.
kongols
Posts
24220
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga LV
8/28/2017 10:56pm
Titan1 wrote:
Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and...
Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and Bagget are on Herlings level on their best day anyway though) all he had was Marvin...look at the lap times, very very close, Marvin has his pace. And he only won the first moto by like 6 seconds, I don't call that "handily"...but even if you do, "handily" isnt dominating (right...which is my point)?

Look at the gaps between Herlings and Musquin from lap 2 until Marvin puts it on cruise control with about 2 or 3 laps left. The gap fluctuated between 15 and 20 seconds. Only after Marvin put it on cruise control did the gap drop to 10 seconds (before his crash). Marvin has Herlings pace.
Not that it matter to you, but Herlings was doing Marvins pace coming through the pack, battling some of the fastest USA has to offer.
He put on a beautiful show, I don`t understand the need to belittle what he did. All this searching for excuses is very unamerican. Accept the truth and come out swinging next week. If anything, this should put a fire in guys.
pilotdude
Posts
3829
Joined
1/12/2009
Location
Vancouver, WA US
8/28/2017 10:58pm
Titan1 wrote:
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same. Speaking of...
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same.

Speaking of Herlings crash...is there any footage of it any place? I haven't seen it. I saw on Tab he made it through the first turn.
Sodipop wrote:
You are on glue if you think Marvin was in cruise control. Herlings got faster later in the race.
Titan1 wrote:
He admitted that he did. I'm basing that on what he said. And look at his last 6 laps...and 2:10's...prior to that he was 2:09's or...
He admitted that he did. I'm basing that on what he said.


And look at his last 6 laps...and 2:10's...prior to that he was 2:09's or 2:08's (with 3 exceptions early in the race)...lap times show he backed it down...he had a 2:21 the lap he crashed...cost him 10 seconds.
Bravo Titan, for looking at this race objectively. I applaud you for your common sense and analysis.

You will be stoned to death by those who cannot, and will not do the same. And some of the statements made here in the past 48 hours are so far past ridiculous they are off the charts.

Herlings rode great, no doubt whatsoever. But some just can't let it be that and have to take it to another level.

Thanks again for the refreshing perspective.
Sideways
Posts
1880
Joined
9/8/2012
Location
SE
8/28/2017 11:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 11:04pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed." You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell...
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed."

You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell right??
Titan1 wrote:
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same. Speaking of...
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same.

Speaking of Herlings crash...is there any footage of it any place? I haven't seen it. I saw on Tab he made it through the first turn.
Herlings was in dead last. At one point he was 20+ sec after musquin. He went through everyone like they were lappers. He passed tomac/webb/craig and by the finishline he had a minute gap on them. He was 6sec behind musquin when he crashed and was catching him FAST. And he was consistenly faster than Musquin through the entire moto. 1-2 sec per lap going through traffic. Who else has come from dead last to 1st since like bubba or RC?
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 11:02pm
Titan1 wrote:
Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and...
Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and Bagget are on Herlings level on their best day anyway though) all he had was Marvin...look at the lap times, very very close, Marvin has his pace. And he only won the first moto by like 6 seconds, I don't call that "handily"...but even if you do, "handily" isnt dominating (right...which is my point)?

Look at the gaps between Herlings and Musquin from lap 2 until Marvin puts it on cruise control with about 2 or 3 laps left. The gap fluctuated between 15 and 20 seconds. Only after Marvin put it on cruise control did the gap drop to 10 seconds (before his crash). Marvin has Herlings pace.
kongols wrote:
Not that it matter to you, but Herlings was doing Marvins pace coming through the pack, battling some of the fastest USA has to offer. He...
Not that it matter to you, but Herlings was doing Marvins pace coming through the pack, battling some of the fastest USA has to offer.
He put on a beautiful show, I don`t understand the need to belittle what he did. All this searching for excuses is very unamerican. Accept the truth and come out swinging next week. If anything, this should put a fire in guys.
I'm not belittling what he did. I'm just saying it wasn't as dominating as so many were claiming on here on Saturday and Sunday (before I watched the race). I didn't watch the rave until Monday and based on comments here I was expecting him to be like 2 seconds faster and win by over a minute, that wasn't the case...so I'm not belittling what he did, just the commenters/comments about what he did (make sense)?

He killed it! One of the Three fastest men in the world. He's a bad dude! He deserved the win.
kongols
Posts
24220
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga LV
8/28/2017 11:05pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 11:07pm
Titan1 wrote:
I'm not belittling what he did. I'm just saying it wasn't as dominating as so many were claiming on here on Saturday and Sunday (before I...
I'm not belittling what he did. I'm just saying it wasn't as dominating as so many were claiming on here on Saturday and Sunday (before I watched the race). I didn't watch the rave until Monday and based on comments here I was expecting him to be like 2 seconds faster and win by over a minute, that wasn't the case...so I'm not belittling what he did, just the commenters/comments about what he did (make sense)?

He killed it! One of the Three fastest men in the world. He's a bad dude! He deserved the win.
There is huge difference doing 2.08`s while out front and doing the same coming through the pack. Isn`t it? That is why people were commenting the way they were commenting. You look at the lap times and it shows totally different picture.
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 11:10pm
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed." You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell...
"He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed."

You DO know Herlings crashed in that second moto aswell right??
Titan1 wrote:
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same. Speaking of...
I'm looking at the gap from the 2nd lap, to where it was when Marvin put it on cruise control...it stayed basically the same.

Speaking of Herlings crash...is there any footage of it any place? I haven't seen it. I saw on Tab he made it through the first turn.
Sideways wrote:
Herlings was in dead last. At one point he was 20+ sec after musquin. He went through everyone like they were lappers. He passed tomac/webb/craig and...
Herlings was in dead last. At one point he was 20+ sec after musquin. He went through everyone like they were lappers. He passed tomac/webb/craig and by the finishline he had a minute gap on them. He was 6sec behind musquin when he crashed and was catching him FAST. And he was consistenly faster than Musquin through the entire moto. 1-2 sec per lap going through traffic. Who else has come from dead last to 1st since like bubba or RC?
I say it was more like 10 seconds when he crashed, but even so there was a lap and a half left and he had-as you say-a 6 second lead...he was managing the moto...Herlings was running 1-2 seconds per lap faster...he had it in the bad.
8/28/2017 11:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 11:14pm
Herlings said himself that he couldn't do the triple going through the pack because of the slower riders in 25th to 40th place in front and that must have slowed his progress a lot. Something that neither #3 or #25 had to contend with.

Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 11:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 11:15pm
Titan1 wrote:
I'm not belittling what he did. I'm just saying it wasn't as dominating as so many were claiming on here on Saturday and Sunday (before I...
I'm not belittling what he did. I'm just saying it wasn't as dominating as so many were claiming on here on Saturday and Sunday (before I watched the race). I didn't watch the rave until Monday and based on comments here I was expecting him to be like 2 seconds faster and win by over a minute, that wasn't the case...so I'm not belittling what he did, just the commenters/comments about what he did (make sense)?

He killed it! One of the Three fastest men in the world. He's a bad dude! He deserved the win.
kongols wrote:
There is huge difference doing 2.08`s while out front and doing the same coming through the pack. Isn`t it? That is why people were commenting the...
There is huge difference doing 2.08`s while out front and doing the same coming through the pack. Isn`t it? That is why people were commenting the way they were commenting. You look at the lap times and it shows totally different picture.
He didn't run 2:08's coming through traffic...he was running 2:10's and 2:11'a (with one exception...one 2:09) until lap 8 (after he was through traffic).

After lap 8 he ran 3 2:08's...one 2:10...and 5 2:09's.
kongols
Posts
24220
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga LV
8/28/2017 11:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 11:21pm
Titan1 wrote:
He didn't run 2:08's coming through traffic...he was running 2:10's and 2:11'a (with one exception...one 2:09) until lap 8 (after he was through traffic). After lap...
He didn't run 2:08's coming through traffic...he was running 2:10's and 2:11'a (with one exception...one 2:09) until lap 8 (after he was through traffic).

After lap 8 he ran 3 2:08's...one 2:10...and 5 2:09's.
I just looked at the lap times and do not see Marvin dropping the pace. By mid race he hit the lappers and was doing 2.10`s. Constant 2.10`s. In fact, he has only 4 laps faster than his last 8 laps.
Titan1
Posts
9407
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
8/28/2017 11:22pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 11:24pm
Titan1 wrote:
He didn't run 2:08's coming through traffic...he was running 2:10's and 2:11'a (with one exception...one 2:09) until lap 8 (after he was through traffic). After lap...
He didn't run 2:08's coming through traffic...he was running 2:10's and 2:11'a (with one exception...one 2:09) until lap 8 (after he was through traffic).

After lap 8 he ran 3 2:08's...one 2:10...and 5 2:09's.
kongols wrote:
I just looked at the lap times and do not see Marvin dropping the pace. By mid race he hit the lappers and was doing 2.10`s...
I just looked at the lap times and do not see Marvin dropping the pace. By mid race he hit the lappers and was doing 2.10`s. Constant 2.10`s. In fact, he has only 4 laps faster than his last 8 laps.
He said he dropped the pace...his last 6 laps all in the 2:10's all but three laps (laps 2,3,4 if memory serves me correctly) prior to that he was 2:09's and a 2:08...

I'll take his word for it that he was cruising to the win. It's the logical thing to do. Lap times support it.

Herlings was coming through the pack running 2:10's and 2:11's...while Marvin was putting in consistent 2:09's for the first half of the race. He built up a huge lead...then backed it down to 2:10's while Herlings was dropping the hammer with a clear track and running 2:09's and a couple 2:08's.

Marvin was managing the gap.

Again, none of this is to diminish what Herlings accomplished. He was the fastest guy Saturday. It's just some perspective for everyone that said he dominated.
jemcee
Posts
12635
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
8/28/2017 11:24pm
Titan1 wrote:
Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and...
Against one rider on his level...Tomac has the speed but wanted the title...Anderson and roczen are out, Baggett had the busted thumb...(I'm not convinced Anderson and Bagget are on Herlings level on their best day anyway though) all he had was Marvin...look at the lap times, very very close, Marvin has his pace. And he only won the first moto by like 6 seconds, I don't call that "handily"...but even if you do, "handily" isnt dominating (right...which is my point)?

Look at the gaps between Herlings and Musquin from lap 2 until Marvin puts it on cruise control with about 2 or 3 laps left. The gap fluctuated between 15 and 20 seconds. Only after Marvin put it on cruise control did the gap drop to 10 seconds (before his crash). Marvin has Herlings pace.
Yeah I don't think I'm gonna change your mind but his day seems fairly dominant to me, and we are talking about whether he was dominant on that day so who wasn't there or who wasn't prepared to run with him is irrelevant..
kongols
Posts
24220
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga LV
8/28/2017 11:26pm
Titan1 wrote:
He said he dropped the pace...his last 6 laps all in the 2:10's all but three laps (laps 2,3,4 if memory serves me correctly) prior to...
He said he dropped the pace...his last 6 laps all in the 2:10's all but three laps (laps 2,3,4 if memory serves me correctly) prior to that he was 2:09's and a 2:08...

I'll take his word for it that he was cruising to the win. It's the logical thing to do. Lap times support it.

Herlings was coming through the pack running 2:10's and 2:11's...while Marvin was putting in consistent 2:09's for the first half of the race. He built up a huge lead...then backed it down to 2:10's while Herlings was dropping the hammer with a clear track and running 2:09's and a couple 2:08's.

Marvin was managing the gap.

Again, none of this is to diminish what Herlings accomplished. He was the fastest guy Saturday. It's just some perspective for everyone that said he dominated.
Bullshit. Let me get a screengrab.
kongols
Posts
24220
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga LV
8/28/2017 11:28pm


8/29/2017 12:58am
Are you crazy? ET had his pace for about a lap and hit the deck. Couldn't keep up and That's the end of it. ET finished...
Are you crazy? ET had his pace for about a lap and hit the deck. Couldn't keep up and That's the end of it.

ET finished 45 secs behind which I'm sure you know, a crash that cost him about 7 seconds and he finished 45 behind, yeah he had the pace Laughing

Moto 2 JH was dead last after the crash, he was basically 20 seconds behind at one point and he won, again Tomac was a massive way behind after being overtaken and basically taunted mid air. Tomac had a title to win, nothing wrong wth how he did it but don't claim he had the pace, he had nothing for Musquin or Bagget, never mind Herlings Whistling

Never mind MM would have won, he crashed and he came second, that's racing and there is no if this or that.

Or we could play the game just for fun

IF JH didn't crash he would have won moto 2 by 30 seconds easily, does that make sense?
An important piece of information you seem to be forgetting is that Tomac's goal was not to beat Jeffrey, maybe for a brief second that was...
An important piece of information you seem to be forgetting is that Tomac's goal was not to beat Jeffrey, maybe for a brief second that was his goal but overall it was to win the title. He said he didn't feel like he was riding out of his mind to stay with Herlings which is what led him to make some kind of make a pass attempt, where he landed like a foot too far to the left and dug the front.

I'm not trying to say Tomac would have passed him, I'm not trying to say Tomac would have won, I'm not trying to take anything away from Herlings at all as his performance was nothing short of incredible but you seem to be having a field day here with this and I think you need to come back to reality.. under normal circumstances you really think Tomac just has nothing at all for Herlings?
not at all, i acknowledged that mid paragraph - you can see if you read it.

This day he had nothing for him that is clear - the clock doesn't lie - say what you like, every day is different and that's why they race - on another day a different result maybe.
RG1
Posts
4661
Joined
7/12/2015
Location
GB
8/29/2017 1:24am
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Forget it was Herlings for a second. When someone/anyone is fastest in both practices sessions and wins both races, they have dominated the event.

I know Herlings got a big slice of luck at the end of Moto 2 with Marvin going down, but still, to even get into position to be the guy who took advantage of that was an amazing performance. Saying that he dominated is not a stretch at all. Zach O dominated the 250 class, Herlings dominated the 450 class
Prejump
Posts
221
Joined
8/4/2017
Location
GB
8/29/2017 2:24am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2017 2:26am
Titan1 wrote:
He said he dropped the pace...his last 6 laps all in the 2:10's all but three laps (laps 2,3,4 if memory serves me correctly) prior to...
He said he dropped the pace...his last 6 laps all in the 2:10's all but three laps (laps 2,3,4 if memory serves me correctly) prior to that he was 2:09's and a 2:08...

I'll take his word for it that he was cruising to the win. It's the logical thing to do. Lap times support it.

Herlings was coming through the pack running 2:10's and 2:11's...while Marvin was putting in consistent 2:09's for the first half of the race. He built up a huge lead...then backed it down to 2:10's while Herlings was dropping the hammer with a clear track and running 2:09's and a couple 2:08's.

Marvin was managing the gap.

Again, none of this is to diminish what Herlings accomplished. He was the fastest guy Saturday. It's just some perspective for everyone that said he dominated.
Do you race ? Have you ever slid out at the start of a moto, picked bike up & dealt with passing slower guys every corner? Your analysis suggests your haven't as anyone who races would know the difference in running up front & coming through the pack.

With all the extra stress of fighting his way though, to earn the chance at the lead when MM gave up a few secs, it would not have been unusual for Herlings or any top rider to fade a bit as their moto would have cost more energy then the leader, so for Herlings to hold MM off for those last 2 laps is even more impressive.

kongols
Posts
24220
Joined
9/22/2009
Location
Riga LV
8/29/2017 2:54am
Prejump wrote:
Do you race ? Have you ever slid out at the start of a moto, picked bike up & dealt with passing slower guys every corner...
Do you race ? Have you ever slid out at the start of a moto, picked bike up & dealt with passing slower guys every corner? Your analysis suggests your haven't as anyone who races would know the difference in running up front & coming through the pack.

With all the extra stress of fighting his way though, to earn the chance at the lead when MM gave up a few secs, it would not have been unusual for Herlings or any top rider to fade a bit as their moto would have cost more energy then the leader, so for Herlings to hold MM off for those last 2 laps is even more impressive.

There was nothing to hold off. He was still faster those last two laps.






kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
8/29/2017 2:57am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2017 2:57am
Herlings put a beat down to end all beat downs on those guys!

Marvin is a Euro also........

Post a reply to: Herlings Corner Speed

The Latest