Is SX really worth it..

kkawboy14
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1/23/2017 9:42am
Moto810 wrote:
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run...
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run SX sooner or later the money that supports this sport will be gone!

However, I for one have never felt those in charge of the sport have the business sense to understand the dynamic of this sport and how the core portion of the MX sport allows those being paid to do what they do. Simply put without motocross outdoor racing SX days are numbered as well.
IMO hard core mxers will support sx if mx disappears. It will be all that's left. The average fan doesn't now that much about the outdoors.
Moto810
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1/23/2017 9:45am
I can't see the core sport going all SX. I see tracks shutting down and riders going trail riding at best.
Sully22
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1/23/2017 9:49am
When the riders and team say they're for the extended SX, I think you have to take a really hard look at some of the challenges they face when it comes to deciding what's better for exposure and the bottom line. Would you rather fly into major metropolitan cities and spend a day or two there, get great exposure from local media and TV who only have to travel minimally to get to these huge stadiums with bright lights and big crowds packed in tightly that can see the whole track, or would you rather spend time in BF nowhere, getting up at the asscrack of dawn to get to the tracks, and spend a couple days during the summer in hot, humid, dry, dirty, dusty all day long sessions where you have to walk all over and the viewing isn't that great? I'm not asking as a fan, because the majority of fans are die hard and love the outdoors, myself included, but ask as a potential investor, team, rider. At the same time I think it's a double edged sword in that it can push core fans away or not bring in new fans...because where is it most everyday people ride, outdoors. You can't cut off your nose to spite one's face.
Skidaddle
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1/23/2017 9:53am
JAFO92 wrote:
Its always the same thing: jumps. Young people give us old guys hell, but we are right. Jumps do the vast majority of serious injuries. Whats...
Its always the same thing: jumps. Young people give us old guys hell, but we are right. Jumps do the vast majority of serious injuries.

Whats more, jumps get tiresome and are over-rated anyway.
It's rhythm sections and whoops.
Both of Roczens recent were rhythm sections.

MCs race and XGames SX had massive triples compared to regular Sx.
In my mind, if you can jump, outside of contact with another, or a mechanical, in the air is one of the safest places to be.



The Shop

RG1
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1/23/2017 9:53am
jeffro503 wrote:
I think the added rounds next year , are the first step forward to changing the entire format of the SX series. I see the chase...
I think the added rounds next year , are the first step forward to changing the entire format of the SX series. I see the chase system being involved , some way , shape or form.

I'm not totally against it or anything , but it I sure hope to hell it doesn't affect the MX series.
I'm not totally against it either, but let's give the guys out there the best chance of getting through to the end. If half the guys are out injured, it's not going to make any difference whether the chase format comes in or not. I'm with you, it would be a disaster if the outdoors suffer because of any changes
1/23/2017 9:54am
As much as i love watching SX, i do think that the amount of injuries over the years is increasing. I made a post about it last year toward the end of the season, the amount of downed riders was scary.

As for a solution, i have no idea, i'm not a pro racer, or pro track builder, i wouldn't know where to start. Maybe tame down the rhythm sections a bit? Either way, it wouldn't hurt to take a deeper look into the whole ordeal.
Moto810
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1/23/2017 10:04am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 10:17am
Sully22 wrote:
When the riders and team say they're for the extended SX, I think you have to take a really hard look at some of the challenges...
When the riders and team say they're for the extended SX, I think you have to take a really hard look at some of the challenges they face when it comes to deciding what's better for exposure and the bottom line. Would you rather fly into major metropolitan cities and spend a day or two there, get great exposure from local media and TV who only have to travel minimally to get to these huge stadiums with bright lights and big crowds packed in tightly that can see the whole track, or would you rather spend time in BF nowhere, getting up at the asscrack of dawn to get to the tracks, and spend a couple days during the summer in hot, humid, dry, dirty, dusty all day long sessions where you have to walk all over and the viewing isn't that great? I'm not asking as a fan, because the majority of fans are die hard and love the outdoors, myself included, but ask as a potential investor, team, rider. At the same time I think it's a double edged sword in that it can push core fans away or not bring in new fans...because where is it most everyday people ride, outdoors. You can't cut off your nose to spite one's face.
All true yes. However, that is a few. Few meaning just those teams and few pro riders. I want everyone to remember something and this is VERY important. Feld and Mx Sports are promoters! They control this whole sport and they are not a sanctioning body. Our AMA has no teeth anymore and thus the sport will go in the direction of a few rather than the greater percentage.

When was the last time Feld or Mx Sports did something to address the negative direction the sport has been taking? Lower db sound levels, safety, track closings, high costs, or getting more kids in the sport? I know they always blame the economy but can they really say the rules they put in place via private deals to kill two strokes or to change the sport had nothing to do with the decline? Everyone here knows it has had an effect yet they refuse to change their rules to help the riders of the sport who are leaving it.

I know they will say they help provide data for concussion studies and all that but honestly that is not what I am talking about. The AMA was or should be spending our money to help our sport. Somewhere the train went off the tracks and now we have two promoters running the sport instead of the riders who pay the dues to the AMA.

Would the real AMA please step up?
JAFO92
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1/23/2017 10:14am
Moto810 wrote:
All true yes. However, that is a few. Few meaning just those teams and few pro riders. I want everyone to remember something and this is...
All true yes. However, that is a few. Few meaning just those teams and few pro riders. I want everyone to remember something and this is VERY important. Feld and Mx Sports are promoters! They control this whole sport and they are not a sanctioning body. Our AMA has no teeth anymore and thus the sport will go in the direction of a few rather than the greater percentage.

When was the last time Feld or Mx Sports did something to address the negative direction the sport has been taking? Lower db sound levels, safety, track closings, high costs, or getting more kids in the sport? I know they always blame the economy but can they really say the rules they put in place via private deals to kill two strokes or to change the sport had nothing to do with the decline? Everyone here knows it has had an effect yet they refuse to change their rules to help the riders of the sport who are leaving it.

I know they will say they help provide data for concussion studies and all that but honestly that is not what I am talking about. The AMA was or should be spending our money to help our sport. Somewhere the train went off the tracks and now we have two promoters running the sport instead of the riders who pay the dues to the AMA.

Would the real AMA please step up?


TXDirt
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1/23/2017 10:22am
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are seen as franchise players who make millions per year. Frankly, rider safety is as much a business decision as anything.

Having Ken injured is bad for business. That's a fact. The entire SX series just got immensely less interesting. Less interest means less ticket sales and less eyeballs. Less ticket sales and less eyeballs means less money.
1/23/2017 10:24am
Jt$ wrote:
Dream on. If you hate SX, it's going to get worse for you, not better.
cheers_22 wrote:
If true, former pros like yourself should really express your opinion if you feel that is a bad idea. I'm not going to express my view...
If true, former pros like yourself should really express your opinion if you feel that is a bad idea. I'm not going to express my view on it. The only thing I will say is the last thing this sport needs is an extended Supercross season. It will ruin the sport.
ML512 wrote:
A lot of riders and teams are for the extended Supercross series, as they feel like outdoors isn't worth the time and investment on their end.
And most of the riders prefer SX over MX . Better money,better conditions,etc etc
Skidaddle
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1/23/2017 10:25am
Dungeys outdoor neck break was a fluke.
McElraths wrist was a product of the shear speed involved when he crashed.
Same for Stewarts Colorado crash.

Outdoors are far too fast, and ask any rider in SX where they crash.
Forkners bike went backwards when he nosed that last whoop. Roczen wadded twice in rhythms.

James Stewart has disconnected from his bike numerous times in whoops and rhythms.




Moto810
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1/23/2017 10:26am
TXDirt wrote:
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are...
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are seen as franchise players who make millions per year. Frankly, rider safety is as much a business decision as anything.

Having Ken injured is bad for business. That's a fact. The entire SX series just got immensely less interesting. Less interest means less ticket sales and less eyeballs. Less ticket sales and less eyeballs means less money.
This! Not to mention think about how many mom's watched that and said "hell no" my kid is not doing that! lol


I do not even watch X Games or anything like that anymore just because of what I know is going to happen sooner or later. Of course we can't prevent all the injuries or anything like that but we can make sure we are working to improve the sport in the areas we know are hurting it currently.
Phillip_Lamb
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1/23/2017 10:28am
cutting out mx would be a huge mistake. I feel that reality is both series are suffering.

Supercross has become relatively stale, with tracks that have no imagination, a tired racing format, and no way to effectively build the skills necessary for new or inexperienced riders.

Motocross requires a lot of travel, to the middle of nowhere for failing ticket sales


This was bound to happen when the two series were no longer under one promoter, and sx has always had a bigger crowd draw than mx.

If this happens you'll see something like what is in europe, where you have the SX series equal to GP's and the MX series will be = to the EMX series.

Im curious as to where they want to hold a few rounds? maybe a few more in the NE area and the South? 5 rounds at Anaheim???


1/23/2017 10:28am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 10:29am
TXDirt wrote:
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are...
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are seen as franchise players who make millions per year. Frankly, rider safety is as much a business decision as anything.

Having Ken injured is bad for business. That's a fact. The entire SX series just got immensely less interesting. Less interest means less ticket sales and less eyeballs. Less ticket sales and less eyeballs means less money.
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out wont make any difference on ticket sales or money and the show will go on.
TXDirt
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1/23/2017 10:32am
TXDirt wrote:
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are...
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are seen as franchise players who make millions per year. Frankly, rider safety is as much a business decision as anything.

Having Ken injured is bad for business. That's a fact. The entire SX series just got immensely less interesting. Less interest means less ticket sales and less eyeballs. Less ticket sales and less eyeballs means less money.
lostboy819 wrote:
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out...
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out wont make any difference on ticket sales or money and the show will go on.
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top talent out makes it better and more interesting.
Motofinne
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1/23/2017 10:33am
cutting out mx would be a huge mistake. I feel that reality is both series are suffering. Supercross has become relatively stale, with tracks that have...
cutting out mx would be a huge mistake. I feel that reality is both series are suffering.

Supercross has become relatively stale, with tracks that have no imagination, a tired racing format, and no way to effectively build the skills necessary for new or inexperienced riders.

Motocross requires a lot of travel, to the middle of nowhere for failing ticket sales


This was bound to happen when the two series were no longer under one promoter, and sx has always had a bigger crowd draw than mx.

If this happens you'll see something like what is in europe, where you have the SX series equal to GP's and the MX series will be = to the EMX series.

Im curious as to where they want to hold a few rounds? maybe a few more in the NE area and the South? 5 rounds at Anaheim???


You could argue that the AX series is or could be the EMX of US. And that is a good thing.


ledger
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1/23/2017 10:33am
I would like to see two event's held as Retro SX Night , change the track's to a mid 80's design and add in the throwback bike's, maybe let Emig wear his old gear, lol. Honestly, it's past time for new track's and it's time to hit the reset button to keep the sport alive.
Phillip_Lamb
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1/23/2017 10:35am
Skidaddle wrote:
Dungeys outdoor neck break was a fluke. McElraths wrist was a product of the shear speed involved when he crashed. Same for Stewarts Colorado crash. Outdoors...
Dungeys outdoor neck break was a fluke.
McElraths wrist was a product of the shear speed involved when he crashed.
Same for Stewarts Colorado crash.

Outdoors are far too fast, and ask any rider in SX where they crash.
Forkners bike went backwards when he nosed that last whoop. Roczen wadded twice in rhythms.

James Stewart has disconnected from his bike numerous times in whoops and rhythms.




you mention outdoors being too fast? like overall or just some of the tracks are getting out of hand, like Glen helen for instance.

do you think they should slow the tracks down, make em more technical like Euro tracks?
Moto810
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1/23/2017 10:43am
you mention outdoors being too fast? like overall or just some of the tracks are getting out of hand, like Glen helen for instance. do you...
you mention outdoors being too fast? like overall or just some of the tracks are getting out of hand, like Glen helen for instance.

do you think they should slow the tracks down, make em more technical like Euro tracks?
Did you see the interview of Villopoto where he is talking about taking over a local track in the state of Washington? He talks about the first things he is going to do is slow down the track and make the track safer as well as more fun for all the riders.


That is one of the sports fastest riders clearly understanding that safety is very important to the success of the sport and that track.
1/23/2017 10:48am
TXDirt wrote:
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are...
When NLF teams had top QB's start going down with injuries, you know what they did? They changed the rules to protect them more. QB's are seen as franchise players who make millions per year. Frankly, rider safety is as much a business decision as anything.

Having Ken injured is bad for business. That's a fact. The entire SX series just got immensely less interesting. Less interest means less ticket sales and less eyeballs. Less ticket sales and less eyeballs means less money.
lostboy819 wrote:
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out...
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out wont make any difference on ticket sales or money and the show will go on.
TXDirt wrote:
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top...
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top talent out makes it better and more interesting.
It keeps right on rolling no matter who is in or who is out. Happens every year but feel free to quit watching if you have lost interest.
tcallahan707
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1/23/2017 10:48am
Imagine that Red Bull knockout race indoors. I'd love to find a cost effective way to drop a beach in the middle of a stadium and let them go at it. No need to try and build a fun "stadium mx" track, since those usually suck when compared to a killer natural outdoor track. Just throw a few rollers in here and there and let it develop. Hell, it may even be cheaper since they spend so much time and diesel building the SX track. You'd get all the benefits of location, media, ticket sales, blah blah blah without as much risk and staleness as SX. The tracks just aren't different enough and they don't change much throughout the night, unless it's pretty wet.
TXDirt
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1/23/2017 10:57am
lostboy819 wrote:
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out...
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out wont make any difference on ticket sales or money and the show will go on.
TXDirt wrote:
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top...
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top talent out makes it better and more interesting.
lostboy819 wrote:
It keeps right on rolling no matter who is in or who is out. Happens every year but feel free to quit watching if you have...
It keeps right on rolling no matter who is in or who is out. Happens every year but feel free to quit watching if you have lost interest.
Who said it didn't stop rolling on? Of course the show goes on. Having top riders out is bad for business. That's all.
hvaughn88
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1/23/2017 11:08am
Maybe I'm just too easily amused, but I don't find SX stale in the slightest (or outdoors, for that matter). Is it a bit predictable? Perhaps. But that's just the nature of sports sometimes (and more particularly, racing). I don't need to tell anyone here motorcycles are dangerous. And yes, if it can be made safer than go for it. Speaking for myself, the appeal of watching supercross racing for me is to see people doing stuff that I could never do. Like I said, it's dangerous. You can be bit at any time. But that's what makes it so impressive, too. Someone brought up the football example earlier. I'm a huge football fan and have been since I was able to comprehend what it was. I played growing up. But guess what, I haven't watched as much in the last few years and it's solely because they are regulating the violence (for lack of a better term) out of the game. Again, I like seeing people do what I can't. I will never be able to be 6'4" 250 lbs with the capabilities of using my body as a weapon to absolutely demolish another guy that's 6'4" 250 lbs. So when you take that away, it's just another game that I don't really care if I miss or not.

Anyways, that's just my $0.02. Yes, I'm a jock. Yes, I enjoy a little bit of violence every now and then. No, I don't wear a flat bill, dickies or skate shoes. No, I don't like monster energy. Yes, I do like supercross. Yes, I do like outdoors. Go ahead, tell me to stop dragging my knuckles and evolve.
JAFO92
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1/23/2017 11:11am
TXDirt wrote:
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top...
So with a major top rider out things just got more interesting? I couldn't disagree more. I don't know of any sport where having the top talent out makes it better and more interesting.
I probably wont be watching the remaining rounds, just read VitalMX for the highlights on Sunday.
1/23/2017 11:12am
Great post. Thinking back I can't remember a single rider ever getting injured in outdoors...
kkawboy14 wrote:
Ricky Johnsons career was ended at Gatorback Outdoor National
And too many others. One as recent as last MX season, if you will recall...
1/23/2017 11:30am
Most guys that post on here are race fans. We like to see a proper battle, block passes, race craft. I doubt so much much we get a thrill out of watching the constant hopping over steep jumps, which dont usually create big speed differences. The way i see it a track could be made in a stadium that provided the challenge, created good racing, battles but without such steep unforgiving sections.

Bad crashes will always happen, but why not try to make a safer track that could still provide the racing battles which is all we really want to see.
JSmith
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1/23/2017 11:52am
Eh, if I had a gun held to my head I would take my chances crashing on a supercross track doing 28mph instead of crashing on...
Eh, if I had a gun held to my head I would take my chances crashing on a supercross track doing 28mph instead of crashing on a motocross track doing 50mph. There was more devastating injuries in motocross last year than there was in supercross.
Exactly. Plenty of guys have had their year ended/career ended outdoors as well. There is nothing safe about the outdoors. Pick your poison, get tossed in...
Exactly. Plenty of guys have had their year ended/career ended outdoors as well. There is nothing safe about the outdoors. Pick your poison, get tossed in SX at 28mph or cross rutt at 50mph Outdoors.
This
ACBraap
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Fantasy
1/23/2017 12:01pm
Moto810 wrote:
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run...
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run SX sooner or later the money that supports this sport will be gone!

However, I for one have never felt those in charge of the sport have the business sense to understand the dynamic of this sport and how the core portion of the MX sport allows those being paid to do what they do. Simply put without motocross outdoor racing SX days are numbered as well.
Sure, but that's a change that has been happening over time anyway, as SX moves from an extension of MX, which has historically been a participant driven, enthusiast sport, where marketing is based on selling to those participants, to an entertainment event marketed to anyone that wants to watch. While the vitalmx forum may be riders, Feld is looking to the dollars of the nonriding crowd. It used to be what wins on Sunday sells on Monday. Now it's what is advertised on Saturday night sells on Sunday.
Starcrossed
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1/23/2017 12:15pm
Let Moto810guy fix everything...that's my answer.
Moto810
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1/23/2017 12:20pm
Moto810 wrote:
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run...
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run SX sooner or later the money that supports this sport will be gone!

However, I for one have never felt those in charge of the sport have the business sense to understand the dynamic of this sport and how the core portion of the MX sport allows those being paid to do what they do. Simply put without motocross outdoor racing SX days are numbered as well.
ACBraap wrote:
Sure, but that's a change that has been happening over time anyway, as SX moves from an extension of MX, which has historically been a participant...
Sure, but that's a change that has been happening over time anyway, as SX moves from an extension of MX, which has historically been a participant driven, enthusiast sport, where marketing is based on selling to those participants, to an entertainment event marketed to anyone that wants to watch. While the vitalmx forum may be riders, Feld is looking to the dollars of the nonriding crowd. It used to be what wins on Sunday sells on Monday. Now it's what is advertised on Saturday night sells on Sunday.
Yes correct. That is my point. Feld only cares about the money and that is fine. However, they and Mx Sports also have gotten involved in the rules in order to influence what the riders buy. When you step into the rules and try to influence the sports direction your taking on a much larger role than a promoter. They did that with the four strokes and now they refuse to return to the equal displacement rule. This is only one example of it where they stepped in to influence the sports core. During this the AMA was minimized and no longer yields any control of the sport.

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