"Wings of Change"...( a 250 is a 250...! )

Ozzy
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Santa Clarita, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 11:00pm
"Winds of Change".......?

I beg to differ.

I'm not trying to "ruffle" any feathers, but coming to a

race track soon could be some "new" rules.

I like change. I've said it many a time, that change is good.

However, change is good only when you don't know what

your getting, so you give it the "old school try".

In my opinion, here you clearly do.......

The powers that be, on the pro side & amateur side feel this is

a just direction. They're wrong I'm afraid. I can't believe they haven't

realized it as yet as they have tried it in the amateur ranks recently.

They say, "We believe a 250 is a 250, period". Wow, brilliant!

But so wrong.......!

To quote a young & fast Malcolm Stewart, brother of James,

"On the 2stk., it's faster than a 250F right out of the box.

They have something like 7 more horsepower than a 250F"....

So I ask you, where's the logic here?

In the amateur's the 2stks. left the 4stks.

It's not an "even Steven deal", it's not.

What it is, is a huge mistake.

Again, I can't believe they don't see it.

Power to weight, everything's wrong with it.

Experience tells me so.

250F's belong with themselves, period!

250 2stks. belong with themselves, period!

Mixing the 2 will certainly turn into a joke.

The better guys on 2stks. will reign supreme.

I hope they reconsider.

Dave O. Wink
|
Sondy132001
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Mission Viejo, CA, USA
1/30/2009 5:12pm
My rules are 125 2-stroke can race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes can race with 450f's and thats it.

S
KAWboy14
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1/30/2009 5:13pm
i thought it was "winds of change"?
davis224
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Fantasy
1/30/2009 5:13pm
I disagree. I know several people that are faster on 250fs than a 2 banger.They may not be pros, but I think most top guys with factory support will be on 250fs anyway, this will only help the privateers bridge the engine gap IMO.
flarider
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1/30/2009 5:15pm
But Dave, you know as well as I, HP numbers are not the ultimate solution to the equation, you have to factor in tractability and usability.

Even if a 2stk makes 7 more HP, the 4stk is easier to ride and has better tractability.

I agree with the 250 to 250 rule.

The present rule was written for when 4 strokes were heavy and slow, with little technology behind them.
Now, they're lighter, faster, more powerful and entering into a fuel injection phase.
In a short period of time, 4 strokes have come a long way and we all know that they've only just begun.
In another short period of time, they'll be even more even, if not the 4 stroke surpassing the 2 stroke in HP to weight

The Shop

Team Ideal
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Ste. Marie, IL, USA
1/30/2009 5:20pm
smokes are dead. just ask the big three. (honda, suzuki, kawasaki) they won't be back because the factories (esp. honda) won't let them PERIOD. yes I would like to eat my words, but it won't happen. certian people are faster on smokes, but if factories won't produce they have no choice for the future in the pro's. look what Maclom is riding this year.
mxpimp
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Seattle, WA, USA
1/30/2009 5:32pm
A 250 is a 250. Let the smoker have the advantage this time.
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
1/30/2009 5:37pm
Four stroke handicapping will kill this sport. I have a Pro friend that blew up three 250F's in one year. $6k in parts alone.
crowe176
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1/30/2009 5:42pm
Hey ozzy, do you post from a cell phone or is that supposed to be one of them haiku things?
Highsider
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1/30/2009 5:45pm
KAWboy14 wrote:
i thought it was "winds of change"?
Honda's "Wings" of Change??
fastener
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USA
1/30/2009 5:53pm
My rules are 125 2-stroke can race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes can race with 450f's and thats it.

S
I know CMC doesn't allow 250f's in the 450 class, where almost all other sanctioning bodies do. What's the reason CMC doesn't?
And no, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious.
Ozzy
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1/30/2009 6:03pm
Quote....
"i thought it was "winds of change"?"

My bad................
BobbyM
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1/30/2009 6:05pm
right on....ozzy, you have to accept change my friend!Smile
fastener
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1/30/2009 6:11pm
I know GFI allowed 250 smokers in the 250f class during 2008. It was a disaster! Starting January 1st in the 250f class you can only run a 250f or a 125 smoker. In the 450 class you can run any 250cc machine or a 450. Guys that had a 250 smoker were running up front in the pro and inro classes and now that they are back on 250f's they are lucky to be in the top 5. Anyway, imo if the AMA were to allow 250 smokers in the 250f pro class, you would see a flood of smokers out there. BUT, this will never happen because too many factories have already folded the smoker production line.
500 Mike
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1/30/2009 6:21pm
Once again proof that the 2 stroke engine is superior cc per cc.

Now we have to make the rules FAIR for the 4 strokes?? Give me a break!
WORCSRacer
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1/30/2009 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 1/30/2009 6:23pm
My rules are 125 2-stroke can race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes can race with 450f's and thats it.

S
Hey good for you! You can say that you helped to kill the sport at the grass roots level. You should be proud.
BobbyM
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1/30/2009 6:24pm
Team Ideal wrote:
smokes are dead. just ask the big three. (honda, suzuki, kawasaki) they won't be back because the factories (esp. honda) won't let them PERIOD. yes I...
smokes are dead. just ask the big three. (honda, suzuki, kawasaki) they won't be back because the factories (esp. honda) won't let them PERIOD. yes I would like to eat my words, but it won't happen. certian people are faster on smokes, but if factories won't produce they have no choice for the future in the pro's. look what Maclom is riding this year.
that can fucking change in an instant...how old are you?
lrantan
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Edgewood, NM, USA
1/30/2009 6:30pm
So to be really fair then anyone with a full mod 250F making more than 7 to 10 HP than a stocker should be put with the 250 2s and 450's?
Ozzy
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1/30/2009 6:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:14pm
Quote..."500 Mike"....
"Now we have to make the rules FAIR for the 4 strokes?? Give me a break!"

That's not what I'm after at all.
At times or events, or really depending on the situation,
sure you can "mix 'em up" some. Say like a "WORCS"
race for example. But at top amateur & pro races, unless
it's an "Open class" I don't think so.
Bike for bike, I know the 2stks. will rein supreme.
However, if that's what it takes to get the 2stks. back
then I'll change my thinking.
Dave O.









BobbyM
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1/30/2009 6:42pm
My rules are 125 2-stroke can race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes can race with 450f's and thats it.

S
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hey good for you! You can say that you helped to kill the sport at the grass roots level. You should be proud.
wow...what a big bad bully cocksucker you are. then again the peters have helped moto more than yer whole existence has helped cocksuckers....maybe.
WORCSRacer
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1/30/2009 6:44pm
My rules are 125 2-stroke can race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes can race with 450f's and thats it.

S
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hey good for you! You can say that you helped to kill the sport at the grass roots level. You should be proud.
BobbyM wrote:
wow...what a big bad bully cocksucker you are. then again the peters have helped moto more than yer whole existence has helped cocksuckers....maybe.
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called out when she's wrong.
BobbyM
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1/30/2009 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:14pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hey good for you! You can say that you helped to kill the sport at the grass roots level. You should be proud.
BobbyM wrote:
wow...what a big bad bully cocksucker you are. then again the peters have helped moto more than yer whole existence has helped cocksuckers....maybe.
WORCSRacer wrote:
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called...
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called out when she's wrong.
fuck off...maybe she's wrong but why belittle her and her stake in moto?

and you know what i look like...wanna beat me up? go ahead....i go to a lot of races.

no bottle you dork...i just got home from work.
WORCSRacer
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1/30/2009 6:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:14pm
BobbyM wrote:
wow...what a big bad bully cocksucker you are. then again the peters have helped moto more than yer whole existence has helped cocksuckers....maybe.
WORCSRacer wrote:
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called...
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called out when she's wrong.
BobbyM wrote:
fuck off...maybe she's wrong but why belittle her and her stake in moto? and you know what i look like...wanna beat me up? go ahead....i go...
fuck off...maybe she's wrong but why belittle her and her stake in moto?

and you know what i look like...wanna beat me up? go ahead....i go to a lot of races.

no bottle you dork...i just got home from work.
I could easily kick your ass with your leg off. Relax homo.


But then again you know me too, drop the gloves when you see me and I'll be glad to go.
BobbyM
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1/30/2009 7:04pm Edited Date/Time 1/30/2009 7:07pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called...
I'm sure you're a big mean bad ass behind the bottle and your computer screen. Fuck you Bobby, she's wrong and she needs to be called out when she's wrong.
BobbyM wrote:
fuck off...maybe she's wrong but why belittle her and her stake in moto? and you know what i look like...wanna beat me up? go ahead....i go...
fuck off...maybe she's wrong but why belittle her and her stake in moto?

and you know what i look like...wanna beat me up? go ahead....i go to a lot of races.

no bottle you dork...i just got home from work.
WORCSRacer wrote:
I could easily kick your ass with your leg off. Relax homo. But then again you know me too, drop the gloves when you see me...
I could easily kick your ass with your leg off. Relax homo.


But then again you know me too, drop the gloves when you see me and I'll be glad to go.
have absolutely no clue who you are or what you look like...don't much care.

nice touch with the "homo" comment.....graduate soon?
Lightning78
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1/30/2009 7:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:14pm
One thing most are overlooking is that if they let 250t's run in the 250f class in the nats, the first time a rider like searle or whoever of that status wins on a 250t the "Big 3" that aren't making them especially Honda will protest faster than you can say #$& and the AMA will repeal the rule and just as fast as it came it will go.....
BobbyM
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1/30/2009 7:28pm
One thing most are overlooking is that if they let 250t's run in the 250f class in the nats, the first time a rider like searle...
One thing most are overlooking is that if they let 250t's run in the 250f class in the nats, the first time a rider like searle or whoever of that status wins on a 250t the "Big 3" that aren't making them especially Honda will protest faster than you can say #$& and the AMA will repeal the rule and just as fast as it came it will go.....
possible good points.
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
1/30/2009 8:28pm
Ozzy wrote:
"Winds of Change".......? I beg to differ. I'm not trying to "ruffle" any feathers, but coming to a race track soon could be some "new" rules...
"Winds of Change".......?

I beg to differ.

I'm not trying to "ruffle" any feathers, but coming to a

race track soon could be some "new" rules.

I like change. I've said it many a time, that change is good.

However, change is good only when you don't know what

your getting, so you give it the "old school try".

In my opinion, here you clearly do.......

The powers that be, on the pro side & amateur side feel this is

a just direction. They're wrong I'm afraid. I can't believe they haven't

realized it as yet as they have tried it in the amateur ranks recently.

They say, "We believe a 250 is a 250, period". Wow, brilliant!

But so wrong.......!

To quote a young & fast Malcolm Stewart, brother of James,

"On the 2stk., it's faster than a 250F right out of the box.

They have something like 7 more horsepower than a 250F"....

So I ask you, where's the logic here?

In the amateur's the 2stks. left the 4stks.

It's not an "even Steven deal", it's not.

What it is, is a huge mistake.

Again, I can't believe they don't see it.

Power to weight, everything's wrong with it.

Experience tells me so.

250F's belong with themselves, period!

250 2stks. belong with themselves, period!

Mixing the 2 will certainly turn into a joke.

The better guys on 2stks. will reign supreme.

I hope they reconsider.

Dave O. Wink
My two cents..... Two-stroke engineering (all-be-it stagnant for a decade) is the way to go for this sport. I have never rode or raced motocross because it is easy and I don't care what bike makes it easier....it is fun because it is difficult and crazy. It is more fundimental and vital than what you are pecking the keyboard about... Why are four-stroke bikes selling and what is it doing to our sport? I don't know but here is my Two-stroke sense"

Lets just make the pocket in billiards bigger...

Lets make a tennis-ball bigger for morons,, or lengthen the racket ...

Lets enlarge the holes on golf courses to "make it easier".....

Lets downsize the NBA basketball but not the hoop......

Lets get pit-bikes and race them so moto is fun again...... Eh,,, wait that was happening... (notice how minibikes were never popular when we all could race or ride two-stroke bikes like the 125)

Fuck easy...... you want easy? For what? The guy next to you on the line will buy 'easier'..

If this sport was a woman,,, it'd buy higher high-heels every chance it got,,, like a dumb fuck'n stripper who thinks 'we care' about 'shoes'....

Four-stroke bikes are a nice option,,, and at double the displacement - great for getting 'a good start'....... now that they make up the whole gate,,, they are a liability to All....
(well, not me.... I ride a two-stroke)

This sport needs controls other then those imposed by four Asian companies!

If Nascar was as poorly run as our sport... Every team would be fighting over the latest E.FI. or ABS systems.... (Carburetors are MANDATORY of participants in Nascar,,,not by accident)

With our sport,, E.F.I and the resulting control will lead to even more expenses and watchdog antics looking for traction control etc....... I'm tired,,,, good night...
Regards, Patrick

PS.... Two-stroke bikes are still an option (barely) Go buy one... you can even buy used... the resulting loss of a four-stroke sale will send the same message... Any of you sheep that have a "support the troops" stickers on your Toyota truck... kindly remove it....... you can "hump the American dream" all you want,,,, but please do it in an American car.
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
1/30/2009 8:32pm
flarider wrote:
But Dave, you know as well as I, HP numbers are not the ultimate solution to the equation, you have to factor in tractability and usability...
But Dave, you know as well as I, HP numbers are not the ultimate solution to the equation, you have to factor in tractability and usability.

Even if a 2stk makes 7 more HP, the 4stk is easier to ride and has better tractability.

I agree with the 250 to 250 rule.

The present rule was written for when 4 strokes were heavy and slow, with little technology behind them.
Now, they're lighter, faster, more powerful and entering into a fuel injection phase.
In a short period of time, 4 strokes have come a long way and we all know that they've only just begun.
In another short period of time, they'll be even more even, if not the 4 stroke surpassing the 2 stroke in HP to weight
Ice Ice Baby.....
The word "easier",,,, nice. Who cares! Fourteen minute main events..... obnoxious noise and eighty-grand two bike team costs.....Overheating four-stroke bikes..(is that why the love affair with them,,, you sell coolant to address the issue?) The four-stroke motocross engine is not what this sport needs going forward... it is what the manufacturers think they need (save for KTM), Good night.
flarider
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1/30/2009 8:35pm
"love affair with them?"

Read comprehension an issue?
stillwelding
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1/30/2009 8:37pm
Ozzy wrote:
"Winds of Change".......? I beg to differ. I'm not trying to "ruffle" any feathers, but coming to a race track soon could be some "new" rules...
"Winds of Change".......?

I beg to differ.

I'm not trying to "ruffle" any feathers, but coming to a

race track soon could be some "new" rules.

I like change. I've said it many a time, that change is good.

However, change is good only when you don't know what

your getting, so you give it the "old school try".

In my opinion, here you clearly do.......

The powers that be, on the pro side & amateur side feel this is

a just direction. They're wrong I'm afraid. I can't believe they haven't

realized it as yet as they have tried it in the amateur ranks recently.

They say, "We believe a 250 is a 250, period". Wow, brilliant!

But so wrong.......!

To quote a young & fast Malcolm Stewart, brother of James,

"On the 2stk., it's faster than a 250F right out of the box.

They have something like 7 more horsepower than a 250F"....

So I ask you, where's the logic here?

In the amateur's the 2stks. left the 4stks.

It's not an "even Steven deal", it's not.

What it is, is a huge mistake.

Again, I can't believe they don't see it.

Power to weight, everything's wrong with it.

Experience tells me so.

250F's belong with themselves, period!

250 2stks. belong with themselves, period!

Mixing the 2 will certainly turn into a joke.

The better guys on 2stks. will reign supreme.

I hope they reconsider.

Dave O. Wink
Takin the dogs for a walk. Tongue

Ozzy
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1115
Joined
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Location
Santa Clarita, CA, USA
1/30/2009 8:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:14pm
Hey "BobbyM" & "WORCSRacer",
Guys Please chill.............Whistling
this is just a harmless "opinionated" discussion
of issues I/we don't/can't control anyway.
Shoot, almost a waste of perfectly good time.
"Peace".............Woohoo
Dave O.Wink

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