Chase format

Johnny Depp
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8/4/2016 3:44pm
7 gate drops in the 4-2-1 format is less than now.

8/4/2016 6:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2016 6:34pm
I would rather see top 16 in qualifying go to main and have 2 - 5-lap LCQ's back to back taking 4 then 2 riders from each class then 2 mains of 10-laps(250) and 12 laps(450) for each class. I would also like to see the nationals go to a 30 minute open practice at 8:30am. Then do 1 timed qualifying for each class and have 3 - 18 minute +2 laps moto's for each class plus a 125cc pro-am/vet race at each event.
Johnny Depp
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8/4/2016 6:49pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2016 6:51pm
Scooter,

You would let the fast guys rest while everyone else beats themselves up trying to make the show? Factory Favoritism.

The fans have to watch the slow guys fight it out and only get to see the fast guys in the mains? I won't buy that ticket.

I'm not getting into outdoors, that IS tradition.

If a "filler" race is held, it needs to be distinctly different than the main show bikes visibly and audibly. Super Mini's would be my 1st choice. 125cc high school kids 2nd.(they are full size and therefore look the same to casual fans)
8/4/2016 7:39pm
Johnny,
Right now your seeing the fast guys do 8 laps (heat) with that being very anti-climatic watered down racing, the LCQ's tend to be very racy, and LOL at tiring out in a 5 minute sprint. at least with this you get 2 mains at full sprint speed and everyone close. the back half of these SX races will put anyone to sleep.

As for nationals it is the same thing, typically when the 20 minute mark is there the moto is determined. I remember the 40 minute moto's used to be snore fest's (tradition???) we used to race 2 strokes that needed to be finessed around the track now its these tractors that my gramma can hit the triples with.

The Shop

Johnny Depp
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8/4/2016 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2016 8:30pm
You may not have read my proposal:

4 quarterfinals where 1/2 the field advances
2 semifinals where 1/2 the field advances
1 main

I want to see the top guys race more, not less. We don't buy tickets to see a bunch of guys who just just got their name and number on a jersey race.

Totally agree the races have been too long (and therefore boring) and could be shorter. Shorter races would mean more different winners since not everybody is a fitness fiend with Aldon as a trainer.

Paying points in the quarter and semi finals would stop the lollygagging once you are in a qualifying position. Gate picks are not a big enough motivator, and should be random anyway to keep the same people from always winning.
holeshot413
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8/4/2016 8:46pm
Beast666 wrote:
For fucks sake not this shit again. If its not broke don't mess with it.
cjg23307 wrote:
Completely agree, This Bernie sanders chase crap is annoying! Let's take away a guys points lead and give it to someone who didn't work as hard...
Completely agree, This Bernie sanders chase crap is annoying! Let's take away a guys points lead and give it to someone who didn't work as hard or get the results he needed. DUMB
exactly THIS!!
Johnny Depp
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8/4/2016 9:11pm
Repeating this for the people that don't read the thread:

It is broke.

Less dirt bikes are sold every year. Tracks are closing. SX races like Houston are dropped after decades due to empty seats. You can't watch it on TV without cable. That is not success.

SX is about entertainment, and always was; that's why they put it in a stadium. It started with Flat track in the Astrodome, and where is that these days?

We aren't alone. Nike announced today that they won't make Golf equipment any more since Millennial's aren't taking up the sport.

Don't change, and see what you get. Left behind.
Johnny Depp
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8/4/2016 9:15pm
This was around before Supercross. So were Demolition Derbies, and Evel Kneivel. Things change.

Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 7:01am Edited Date/Time 8/5/2016 7:19am
Here's a Chase proposal:

All year long points are based on the position you finish compared to the number of riders on the gate. 25 riders and you get 1st is 25, 2nd 24 and so on.

Points awarded for all night show results, quarter finals, semi finals and main. No points for loser races or consolation LCQ etc. Don't even run that crap.

1 throwaway per season of your lowest score. (includes quarter and semi and main)

The 3rd and 2nd to last races of the Season pay DOUBLE POINTS and the last race of the Season pays TRIPLE POINTS, there is no reset or erasing of points earned all year.

There is your CHASE.

8/5/2016 7:03am
FastGzus wrote:
I don't know the fix but I hate that sx takes 3 hours of my Saturday for only 25-35 min of racing that really means anything
I feel exactly the same. I dont mind a 3 hour show, as long as it is a good show. I can watch 3 NFL games in a day, but every minute and every play matters. If SX can do that for me, it would be awesome.
wreckitrandy
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8/5/2016 10:13am
I find it peculiar that sx not only survived but thrived during the absolute thrashing that MC put on everyone all those years and now, everyone is bored with someone having the series sown up before the last race. You 'chase' people are putting a bandaid on the wrong thing. It's not the actual competition that needs fixing. Ticket sales being down 'could' be attributed to a number of factors. The thing that keeps me at home, glued to the tv until the wee hours, is the stupid ticket prices. The thing that stops me from buying a new bike is the stupid new bike prices. A chase format isn't going to address those issues. If your issue with sx is that you're bored with the outcome, look in the mirror. To loosely quote the late, great, Frank Zappa,,,, 'You're trying to treat dandruff by decapitation.'
FastGzus
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8/5/2016 10:40am
I would like more meaningful racing throughout the night. The heat and semis do nothing for me considering the racing is generally a mere formality for the guys who may win a main event. These guys know they can win the main from any gate so they will not race hard unless it's absolutely necessary. Get track time and get through is their focus.
TDeath21
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8/5/2016 11:02am
Again I ask you "chase supporters":

What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every track, in which there is a ton of variety in, and then seeing who has the most points when the series ends?
FastGzus
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8/5/2016 11:17am
TDeath21 wrote:
Again I ask you "chase supporters": What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every...
Again I ask you "chase supporters":

What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every track, in which there is a ton of variety in, and then seeing who has the most points when the series ends?
I think the fairest way is to give points every week and see who has the most. I just wish they'd change how and how much are distributed to make the entire nights racing a little more intense and interesting
JM485
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8/5/2016 12:33pm
If you really want to change something, look at the night show schedule for endurocross. No chase BS, just a small amount of points paid based off of heat wins and a hot laps session to determine gate pick for the main. Watching the top 10 qualifiers do a sprint lap for gate pick would be epic, not to mention it would literally take 10 minutes to complete.
Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 1:01pm
I find it peculiar that sx not only survived but thrived during the absolute thrashing that MC put on everyone all those years and now, everyone...
I find it peculiar that sx not only survived but thrived during the absolute thrashing that MC put on everyone all those years and now, everyone is bored with someone having the series sown up before the last race. You 'chase' people are putting a bandaid on the wrong thing. It's not the actual competition that needs fixing. Ticket sales being down 'could' be attributed to a number of factors. The thing that keeps me at home, glued to the tv until the wee hours, is the stupid ticket prices. The thing that stops me from buying a new bike is the stupid new bike prices. A chase format isn't going to address those issues. If your issue with sx is that you're bored with the outcome, look in the mirror. To loosely quote the late, great, Frank Zappa,,,, 'You're trying to treat dandruff by decapitation.'
Ok, then let's go back to the gold standard. that should fix it for you. INFLATION is your enemy.

When die hard lifelong fans are begging for a change, it is beyond boredom, it is a damn ReLOVEution!
Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 1:07pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Again I ask you "chase supporters": What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every...
Again I ask you "chase supporters":

What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every track, in which there is a ton of variety in, and then seeing who has the most points when the series ends?
FastGzus wrote:
I think the fairest way is to give points every week and see who has the most. I just wish they'd change how and how much...
I think the fairest way is to give points every week and see who has the most. I just wish they'd change how and how much are distributed to make the entire nights racing a little more intense and interesting
No one is suggesting anything has or would be UNFAIR. Same track and points for everyone.

it is the ENTERTAINMENT value we are seeking. And using the Nascar term "CHASE" is just a stir the pot politically incorrect way of describing a review of the points system (which has been revised about 5 times already in the history of the sport). It infers that the season would have a complete reset going into the "Playoff's" and that is merely speculation at this point. I don't want that either, so I am offering some alternatives rather than just bitching about change.
Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 1:09pm
JM485 wrote:
If you really want to change something, look at the night show schedule for endurocross. No chase BS, just a small amount of points paid based...
If you really want to change something, look at the night show schedule for endurocross. No chase BS, just a small amount of points paid based off of heat wins and a hot laps session to determine gate pick for the main. Watching the top 10 qualifiers do a sprint lap for gate pick would be epic, not to mention it would literally take 10 minutes to complete.
Endurocross is a superior "Entertainment" product.

Not a fan of hot laps for gate picks which don't mean much anyways. It's about like the rider introductions with fireworks and wheelies etc. to me.
Flip109
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8/5/2016 1:41pm
Here's a Chase proposal: All year long points are based on the position you finish compared to the number of riders on the gate. 25 riders...
Here's a Chase proposal:

All year long points are based on the position you finish compared to the number of riders on the gate. 25 riders and you get 1st is 25, 2nd 24 and so on.

Points awarded for all night show results, quarter finals, semi finals and main. No points for loser races or consolation LCQ etc. Don't even run that crap.

1 throwaway per season of your lowest score. (includes quarter and semi and main)

The 3rd and 2nd to last races of the Season pay DOUBLE POINTS and the last race of the Season pays TRIPLE POINTS, there is no reset or erasing of points earned all year.

There is your CHASE.

Like
FastGzus
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8/5/2016 3:18pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Again I ask you "chase supporters": What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every...
Again I ask you "chase supporters":

What more fair way is there to crown a champion than to have everyone compete against everyone else at every track, in which there is a ton of variety in, and then seeing who has the most points when the series ends?
FastGzus wrote:
I think the fairest way is to give points every week and see who has the most. I just wish they'd change how and how much...
I think the fairest way is to give points every week and see who has the most. I just wish they'd change how and how much are distributed to make the entire nights racing a little more intense and interesting
No one is suggesting anything has or would be UNFAIR. Same track and points for everyone. it is the ENTERTAINMENT value we are seeking. And using...
No one is suggesting anything has or would be UNFAIR. Same track and points for everyone.

it is the ENTERTAINMENT value we are seeking. And using the Nascar term "CHASE" is just a stir the pot politically incorrect way of describing a review of the points system (which has been revised about 5 times already in the history of the sport). It infers that the season would have a complete reset going into the "Playoff's" and that is merely speculation at this point. I don't want that either, so I am offering some alternatives rather than just bitching about change.
I wasn't referring to anyone's suggested chase/points structure
Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 4:08pm
What I said was, What I meant was...

Not you Gzus, "Fair" is directed to TDeath21
kiwifan
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8/5/2016 4:23pm
Here's a Chase proposal: All year long points are based on the position you finish compared to the number of riders on the gate. 25 riders...
Here's a Chase proposal:

All year long points are based on the position you finish compared to the number of riders on the gate. 25 riders and you get 1st is 25, 2nd 24 and so on.

Points awarded for all night show results, quarter finals, semi finals and main. No points for loser races or consolation LCQ etc. Don't even run that crap.

1 throwaway per season of your lowest score. (includes quarter and semi and main)

The 3rd and 2nd to last races of the Season pay DOUBLE POINTS and the last race of the Season pays TRIPLE POINTS, there is no reset or erasing of points earned all year.

There is your CHASE.

Flip109 wrote:
Like
Makes sense to me too
kiwifan
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8/5/2016 4:30pm
Repeating this for the people that don't read the thread: It is broke. Less dirt bikes are sold every year. Tracks are closing. SX races like...
Repeating this for the people that don't read the thread:

It is broke.

Less dirt bikes are sold every year. Tracks are closing. SX races like Houston are dropped after decades due to empty seats. You can't watch it on TV without cable. That is not success.

SX is about entertainment, and always was; that's why they put it in a stadium. It started with Flat track in the Astrodome, and where is that these days?

We aren't alone. Nike announced today that they won't make Golf equipment any more since Millennial's aren't taking up the sport.

Don't change, and see what you get. Left behind.
There lies the problem, a lot of people complaining about the chase format are the ones who are not turning up to the stadiums to support their sport, they are the ones who are forcing a change (due to the empty seats) yet they are the ones complaining about the change, the irony is massive

What sponsor wants to back a sport where the seats are empty, thank god (at this stage) we still get airplay...something HAS to be done or this sport will die...so lets all embrace the change and hope more seats get filled ok? Lets all support the sport instead of thinking we all know better than the organisers who are getting less and less sales at the gate and less sales at the stadiums themselves (merchandise, food, drinks, etc).
Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 6:59pm
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can still be influenced. I began my campaign a long time ago. Part of it is to get the choices out there.



What Point System would be the most Entertaining to you?

1. A full reset of points at the end of the season and allowing the top 10 rider's to compete for the title

2. A more random compilation of points throughout the season and a huge end of season points bounty

Has anyone got others?
kiwifan
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8/5/2016 7:17pm
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can...
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can still be influenced. I began my campaign a long time ago. Part of it is to get the choices out there.



What Point System would be the most Entertaining to you?

1. A full reset of points at the end of the season and allowing the top 10 rider's to compete for the title

2. A more random compilation of points throughout the season and a huge end of season points bounty

Has anyone got others?
I dont mind #1 or #2...perhaps to me #1 adds a little more tension and excitement to the title.
akillerwombat
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8/5/2016 7:47pm
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can...
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can still be influenced. I began my campaign a long time ago. Part of it is to get the choices out there.



What Point System would be the most Entertaining to you?

1. A full reset of points at the end of the season and allowing the top 10 rider's to compete for the title

2. A more random compilation of points throughout the season and a huge end of season points bounty

Has anyone got others?
I'd like to see a seeded point reset with four races left. Current points leaded would start with 25 points, second 23, third 21, etc.

It would tighten things back up, reward the current leaders (literally keeping the same running order), and give you four races to prove you're the champ. Not to mention it would add some much needed excitement to the finale in Vegas as no one could clinch the title a race or two out.
Johnny Depp
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8/5/2016 8:41pm
Great concept Hodaka. A reset with a slight advantage given to the deserving. Like a home field advantage.
FastGzus
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8/5/2016 9:28pm
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can...
So Mathis or someone? has everybody believing a change is inevitable. It hasn't been released yet. Nor have we elected a new president yet. Things can still be influenced. I began my campaign a long time ago. Part of it is to get the choices out there.



What Point System would be the most Entertaining to you?

1. A full reset of points at the end of the season and allowing the top 10 rider's to compete for the title

2. A more random compilation of points throughout the season and a huge end of season points bounty

Has anyone got others?
I'd like to see a seeded point reset with four races left. Current points leaded would start with 25 points, second 23, third 21, etc. It...
I'd like to see a seeded point reset with four races left. Current points leaded would start with 25 points, second 23, third 21, etc.

It would tighten things back up, reward the current leaders (literally keeping the same running order), and give you four races to prove you're the champ. Not to mention it would add some much needed excitement to the finale in Vegas as no one could clinch the title a race or two out.
Wouldn't he have already proven he deserves to be the champ by whooping them asses the previous 12 or 13 rounds?
The Rock
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8/5/2016 10:11pm
Key to a successful chase is a straight forward easy to follow concept. How about everyone getting one or two throwaway races. There is a catch however.

You have to start the race to be able to throw it away. You don't use them for injuries.....or maybe one throwaway for injury and one throwaway for a bad finish in the main. If you don't qualify you can't throw it away.

akillerwombat
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8/5/2016 10:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2016 10:16pm
FastGzus wrote:
Wouldn't he have already proven he deserves to be the champ by whooping them asses the previous 12 or 13 rounds?
I get a lot of flak on the boards comparing Supercross to "team" sports but I look at it like Baseball, Basketball, Football, Soccer, and nearly every other sport out there that has found a way to maintain (if not build excitement) as the season progresses. If you look at the team records of the aforementioned sports going into the playoffs 99 out of a 100 times one team has a better record than all others in the league while having played everyone in the league at least once and should, based on their record, be the champion but as proven over and over with supercross it leads to an incredibly boring end to the season.

Maybe I stand alone on this one but feel like no one discredits the NFL or NBA champions for winning while using a point reset system (and they have 2 resets!). For example take a look at the Golden State Warriors. They went into the playoffs with one of the best season records ever but lost to the Cavs. Not only were those 7 games exciting as all hell to watch but you don't hear anyone saying "but Golden State's record was so good!" to discredit the Cav's win because Golden State had 7 opportunities to prove they were the best and couldn't do it.

I know having a seeded reset "is not as pure" as it has been but if we can provide an opportunity for the athletes to prove themselves on fair grounds (not a single "winner takes all" race at the end, IE the Superbowl, but 4 or 5 races") I see no issue in trying to increase the entertainment value for everyone going into the later part of the season. At the end of the day Supercross is entertainment. Yes, it's about finding the best indoor rider on a man made track under the lights with fireworks, hype guys, rider intros, and huge fire balls but we have Motocross – the most pure form of dirt bike racing – to be our rock for dirt bike racing so let's spice our Saturday nights up.

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