Tesla driver killed in auto pilot

Jimmy_Sloan
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7/2/2016 9:13am
The auto-pilot feature is turned off by default on Tesla's. When the user turns it on, they have to read and accept the terms and agreements which specifically state that the driver still must be paying attention to the road and other drivers.
seth505
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7/2/2016 1:40pm
Are there people who post on here that are Tesla salesmen or just pretend to be?
Jimmy_Sloan
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7/2/2016 2:20pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
One doesn't have to be a Tesla salesman to know that the Tesla is an excellent vehicle.
MR. X
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7/2/2016 2:25pm
The Tesla is such an amazing car that they're only losing 4000 dollars for every unit they sell now.

The Shop

seth505
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7/2/2016 4:29pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
One doesn't have to be a Tesla salesman to know that the Tesla is an excellent vehicle.
I haven't driven one so I don't assume it's excellent. That said, the fastest I've ever seen a car take off at a light was a Tesla next to me that wanted to cut over 3 lanes. He went so fast he had like 50 yards room on everyone to cut over, impressive.
MR. X
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7/2/2016 4:38pm
5 billion in government assistance for the owner doesn't hurt either between his 3 businesses .
Krallang
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7/2/2016 5:50pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2016 5:55pm
If you have a child with autism, a disability or you yourself are disabled the self driving car will give you a freedom that was never even imaginable. Being able to have a car that is only set up to go to work for your kid and come home, can be monitored from your phone and will simply pull over if something goes wrong with the system... I look forward to that day, and it gives me hope.

When the horse and buggy was on its way out, many people argued against the idea as well. Will there be a few mistakes along the way? I'm sure. But when this is a reality none of us will miss driving to work.
Krallang
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7/2/2016 5:53pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
That can already happen with modern cars today and most of them are out of date as far as security goes. Someone could hack your car now and make the cruise control go crazy.
SCR
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7/2/2016 8:53pm
Are you saying you would put a disabled child in an unmanned vehicle by themselves and send them on their way ?

Also, if something goes wrong with the system I wouldn't assume it would simply pull over. More likely it would stop dead in the middle of the freeway.

GeorgiePorgie
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7/3/2016 6:14am
Even when these things use the brakes to slow the car down to avoid an accident I feel like someone's nose is gonna get slammed off the steering wheel.

Nothing like cruising at 70 and all the sudden brake check and the car decides it's time to stop and your limp seating sitting self goes right into the steering wheel.


I feel like auto driving cars are 50 years or more away. Atleast ones that won't have too many hiccups.
SCR
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7/3/2016 11:21am
Even when these things use the brakes to slow the car down to avoid an accident I feel like someone's nose is gonna get slammed off...
Even when these things use the brakes to slow the car down to avoid an accident I feel like someone's nose is gonna get slammed off the steering wheel.

Nothing like cruising at 70 and all the sudden brake check and the car decides it's time to stop and your limp seating sitting self goes right into the steering wheel.


I feel like auto driving cars are 50 years or more away. Atleast ones that won't have too many hiccups.
I agree. I feel like all this drive assist stuff is dangerous forget about full self driving cars. Maybe in a parking lot at 10 MPH it could be of value. But I think about driving at 70MPH and a bag or sheet of cardboard flies up and the car hits the brakes and the guy tailgating me rams and spins me out and we have a NASCAR pile up because the computer panicked because of a piece of cardboard.

I have been had a number of close calls over almost 40 years of driving and I would say less than half of them involved simply hitting the brakes. Some involved hitting the gas to get out of the way as well as making a number of decisions about where to steer the car. I don't think people realize how many decisions the brain can make in a split second. Every situation in a car is unique and new.

Unless every single vehicle on the road is self driving and has the same operating system and can communicate with each other as well as tons of information outside the car I just don't see it.

What really fascinates me though is that so many people like this idea of not actually having to drive the car. I don't get it. The idea of driving down the road staring out my windshield with nothing to do. Looking over and seeing someone reading a book. Honestly the whole thing freaks me out.

I was reading about the cars that Google is testing in CA. They drive around and map info and let the car go back and forth from auto to manual and log all kind of info. The head of the division said they had a number of slow speed accidents. But they were the fault of other drivers running into them. He said they had a surprising number of people rear end them. I wasn't surprised to hear that at all in fact it seemed obvious to me that would be the case.

In fact. It turns out that these self driving cars are 2 times as likely to be involved in an accident than regular cars. Interestingly the problem is that other people are hitting these cars. Apparently the cars are too timid. Then are fine in a very controlled situation. But in the real world they are scared and unsure what to do, so they just stop or slow down and wait to see what all the other moving things are going to before they make a decision. Think of an 89 year old driver who no longer has any business driving.

GeorgiePorgie
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7/3/2016 12:19pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2016 12:24pm
If 4 auto cars show up at a 4 way at the same time. What happens ? Who goes ?


Traffic came to a stand still one time. I look in the rear view mirror and see this semi just haulin ass. I'm like oh shit and run right off the road. Look to my right and he came to a stop where I was sitting and narrowly missed the car that was in front of me.

That takes some good code to write to get a car to respond like that. But it could be done. How do write an algorithm to make that many decisions. Well first it's gotta sort through all of them. And find the right one. That's a lot of if then statements to cycle through. But technology is pretty sweet. It can be done. He'll look at Watson playing jeopardy. That was cool.
JW381
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7/3/2016 12:32pm
500guy wrote:
They say the camera or the driver could see the semi because of the sunlight , that is scary stuff. A person would think they would...
They say the camera or the driver could see the semi because of the sunlight , that is scary stuff.

A person would think they would also have some other type of sensors like radar or sonar ?

it's really cool technology but I think it's has to many draw backs.
Too many? As opposed to the 32,675 people who were killed in auto fatalities in 2014 -all of which were human operated vehicles? The cocaine in...
Too many?

As opposed to the 32,675 people who were killed in auto fatalities in 2014 -all of which were human operated vehicles?

The cocaine in the grocery store analogy is poor...
Think of it like this - you get a flat and have to use your spare donut. It states specifically don't go above 55mph. What does everyone do - they drive on it like a normal tire. When it blows up the perception is it failed. Wrong, you exceeded the design limitations.
Tesla advises against handsfree driving using this tech. BETA means the bugs aren't worked out. By using it you're agreeing to helping work those kinks out.
Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

If the tractor trailer was being operated by autopilot it wouldn't have made the illegal left turn.

Can't wait for this driverless tech to go full public in a few years.
Haven't read thru the rest, but this.
SCR
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7/3/2016 1:22pm
If 4 auto cars show up at a 4 way at the same time. What happens ? Who goes ? Traffic came to a stand still...
If 4 auto cars show up at a 4 way at the same time. What happens ? Who goes ?


Traffic came to a stand still one time. I look in the rear view mirror and see this semi just haulin ass. I'm like oh shit and run right off the road. Look to my right and he came to a stop where I was sitting and narrowly missed the car that was in front of me.

That takes some good code to write to get a car to respond like that. But it could be done. How do write an algorithm to make that many decisions. Well first it's gotta sort through all of them. And find the right one. That's a lot of if then statements to cycle through. But technology is pretty sweet. It can be done. He'll look at Watson playing jeopardy. That was cool.
I was doing some reading about these cars yesterday. They talked about the 4 way stop. If all four cars can communicate with each other it works out OK. with one or two auto cars it becomes a problem. Just this one scenario I think you would have to come up with many thousands of responses and decisions to avoid a auto car from deciding to play it safe and just stop half way into the intersection. There is a million situations much more complicated than the 4 way stop. I cant see how these can all be programmed to work.

I think about road rage also. People freaking out because the car isn't doing what they think it should. Or people in regular cars losing their minds because the auto car is going to slow getting in the way, being to cautious and causing a dangerous situation. I read some politicians went for a ride with some auto pilot car company in Washingtion DC. It got on the on ramp then had to negotiate three lanes of traffic and exit on other side of freeway. The car couldn't deal with it and signaled for the driver to take control.

Another big problem they talked about was how the Google cars are programmed to follow all speed limits and rules of the road. The car can only think and drive from this point of view so it cant make a decision to break the speed limit or cross a double yellow line or any other thousand of things. So they are saying somehow they need to program it to make decisions of how and when to disregard the rules of the road so that it can operate in the real world. So how do you program a computer to use common sense ?

This stuff is brand new and obviously its possible take it a whole lot farther. I don't know shit about the technology but I know about driving and human behavior and I can just see so many issues with it.

I guess I really struggle with the why. Sure there is many people that see a great opportunity to do work and make use of their time management I guess. I see millions more people that will lose jobs. To the people in Silicon Valley these jobs might not be important but to the people that lose them they are everything. It sounds like one of Googles plans is to put millions of Google taxis on the road which I guess would put the Uber guys out of work.


How about the trucking companies. They deliver the product with no driver but who unloads it ? I guess they make Google robots ? Crazy shit.

What if your in a situation you need to evacuate your house quickly because a fire is coming and your car takes it time to get safely down the road. Or you need to rush someone to the Hospital. Can they program a urgency button ? Probably not because it would be used by everyone everyday.

Im older and admit I do not like a lot of new technology and can see negative impacts in a lot of things that I think other people dismiss. I realize Im probably in the minority and that will be the case more and more every year. But this car thing I believe will result in disaster before it get very far.

Anyway it will be interesting.




SCR
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7/3/2016 1:38pm
We got that earlier about the terms and agreements. Obviously we are talking about these cars going forward right. The intention of Tesla and a number of other companies is to have fully self driving cars.

Also how are current cars communicating with each other now. Are you talking about communication as it applies to operation on the road.
Krallang
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7/3/2016 4:50pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2016 4:55pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
Once they fine tune self driving cars and it's a proven system, yes. Like the iPhone, I won't be buying the first version because the first always has problems.
One Last Comeback
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7/3/2016 5:03pm
A big problem with auto-drive cars is that they would be programmed to follow speed limits. But you could adjust the speed limits. Passenger trains travel at high speeds.
Transportation needs to evolve like everything else. Especially considering how much time we waste in traffic.
SCR
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7/3/2016 5:56pm
If you read the things Musk has said its clear they are all in on building a full autonomous car. He said its very high on the priority list. Also said right now their driver assist is better at driving on the highway than a human driver. He said they would have a fully autonomous car in 5 years then doubled down and said 2 years. I think your right though people like the car they build for what it is without any driver assist. As much as I am not on board with this self driving car business I do admire Musks tenacity to do stuff. I don't want to compare him to JFK but saying they will get this done in two years reminds me of JFK saying they will put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. That was a hell of a thing to say at the time.

I did read some about the V2V, etc. Mostly what I read was prototype testing stuff the bigger car Manufactures were doing. I didn't know what they actually had already operating on the road other than the obvious stuff like like sensing front end collision. I guess once they have the platform or infrastructure or whatever they call it in the car they can update software on the fly. I guess that's already happening. Looks like the car Manufacturers are looking at it from V2V communication as critical, and Google is focused on building maps of the physical world currently driving cars around Mt. View CA. mapping everything including sidewalk heights, etc.

Seems like some of the car Manufacturers are a bit pissed at Musk and think he was jumping the gun with the way he put out the Auto Pilot thing and the death of the guy that hit the truck might set things back with regulators. The car Manufacturers seem more conservative than the tech guys like Musk and Google. Makes sense I guess sense they know first hand about class action liability law suits and working with regulators on these things.

Seems to me that there would have to be some kind of consistency with the operating programs of all Manufactueres for this to work. Im sure that would happen some way thru the regulation over the years.
Falcon
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7/4/2016 5:56pm
I predict lots of problems.
500guy
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7/4/2016 6:10pm
Sure it's cool technology but the transition might be painful and what about the people still driving 55 Chevy's or Model T's ?

They going to say the Tesla didn't recognize it?
vetmxr
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7/4/2016 6:55pm
I barely feel comfortable with anyone behind the wheel that's not me. I just don't like to put my life in other peoples hands......I'm guessing I may never get on board with an inanimate computer making my life of death decisions for me. I'm not willing to die for someone else's mistakes if I can avoid them. I'm sure I'm not alone.
GeorgiePorgie
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7/4/2016 7:45pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2016 7:46pm
500guy wrote:
Sure it's cool technology but the transition might be painful and what about the people still driving 55 Chevy's or Model T's ? They going to...
Sure it's cool technology but the transition might be painful and what about the people still driving 55 Chevy's or Model T's ?

They going to say the Tesla didn't recognize it?
Those dudes driving those works of art will recognize when they're rear ended by a tesla.....
How will it deal with terrible weather conditions ? Like a blizzard white out. Or torrential Down pours ?
Mr. G
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7/5/2016 4:43pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
Right. Shouldn't it be So Cal Tesla? Edison was the DC guy.
kzizok
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7/5/2016 5:59pm
Im just gonna say it. Until this post came out, I had no idea that auto-pilot was even a "thing" yet.
SCR
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7/5/2016 10:25pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if he picks his date up in one of these.




PalerBlue
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7/5/2016 11:44pm
SCR wrote:
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if...
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if he picks his date up in one of these.




I've got to say I would trust that thing more than some of the taxi drivers I've been driven by over the years. I would also prefer to see elderly and slow witted people in one of those, rather than in a couple of of tons of out of control steel. For sure I trust my own judgement but my safety also depends on the people around me and nobody can deny there's no shortage of dangerous idiots out there.
kzizok
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7/6/2016 12:22am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2016 12:33am
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
SCR wrote:
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if...
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if he picks his date up in one of these.




I knew about the Google car but it's still in the testing phase. Doesnt it operate autonomously?

I had no clue that there was any car currently on the market that was fitted w/auto pilot.
motoxracer723
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7/6/2016 8:36am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2016 8:38am
PalerBlue wrote:
I've got to say I would trust that thing more than some of the taxi drivers I've been driven by over the years. I would also...
I've got to say I would trust that thing more than some of the taxi drivers I've been driven by over the years. I would also prefer to see elderly and slow witted people in one of those, rather than in a couple of of tons of out of control steel. For sure I trust my own judgement but my safety also depends on the people around me and nobody can deny there's no shortage of dangerous idiots out there.
This.

I feel safer with the autonomous system than I do with 75% of people I see on the road. Between the elderly, distracted driving (texting, on the phone, yelling at the kids), and just poor drivers I'm all about the changeover.

In fact, try to fast forward to a point where this system is integrated and functional everywhere. Similar to a taxi or uber, you walk out of your house and the car you 'requested' is waiting to take you. You jump in and away you go - there is no driver and you simply wait doing other things (work, phone, etc) until you get to your destination. Then you get out, the car leaves to pickup someone else.
It will be a whole fleet of 'transportation robots' as opposed to personal vehicles. No maintenance, no changing tires, etc - it's all handled by the transportation industry - similar to trains or aircraft
The car returns to some garage to plug in when no one is requesting it. No more drunk driving, no more traffic jams...

Is there the potential for a big brother takeover where you can't get anywhere unless "they" say its OK - Absolutely. That scares me more than the basic idea of autonomous driving. I'm trying to stay positive tho
Krallang
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7/6/2016 9:53am
500guy wrote:
Sure it's cool technology but the transition might be painful and what about the people still driving 55 Chevy's or Model T's ? They going to...
Sure it's cool technology but the transition might be painful and what about the people still driving 55 Chevy's or Model T's ?

They going to say the Tesla didn't recognize it?
Cameras and computers can tell us if they did or did not.
Krallang
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7/6/2016 9:54am
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
SCR wrote:
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if...
Yea it's a thing. Here is Googles neat little car. I gotta think it's gonna be tough for an 18 yr old to get laid if he picks his date up in one of these.




If an 18 year old picks a girl up in one of those he's got a really important father or millions of dollars. He wont struggle to get laid.

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