Tesla driver killed in auto pilot

SCR
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http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
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500guy
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7/1/2016 9:44am
They say the camera or the driver could see the semi because of the sunlight , that is scary stuff.

A person would think they would also have some other type of sensors like radar or sonar ?

it's really cool technology but I think it's has to many draw backs.
TailSoHard
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7/1/2016 10:32am
What do you call a stolen Tesla?!




An Edison!!





Sorry, bad joke, I'll see myself out...
Hut
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7/1/2016 10:39am


motoxracer723
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7/1/2016 10:53am
500guy wrote:
They say the camera or the driver could see the semi because of the sunlight , that is scary stuff. A person would think they would...
They say the camera or the driver could see the semi because of the sunlight , that is scary stuff.

A person would think they would also have some other type of sensors like radar or sonar ?

it's really cool technology but I think it's has to many draw backs.
Too many?

As opposed to the 32,675 people who were killed in auto fatalities in 2014 -all of which were human operated vehicles?

The cocaine in the grocery store analogy is poor...
Think of it like this - you get a flat and have to use your spare donut. It states specifically don't go above 55mph. What does everyone do - they drive on it like a normal tire. When it blows up the perception is it failed. Wrong, you exceeded the design limitations.
Tesla advises against handsfree driving using this tech. BETA means the bugs aren't worked out. By using it you're agreeing to helping work those kinks out.
Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

If the tractor trailer was being operated by autopilot it wouldn't have made the illegal left turn.

Can't wait for this driverless tech to go full public in a few years.

The Shop

Falcon
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7/1/2016 11:06am
I hate the idea of driverless cars so much that I think I may never ride in one. I'll certainly never own one.

Then again, it might be better than riding with an idiot driver...
motoxracer723
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7/1/2016 11:15am
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention...


7/1/2016 12:07pm
A report on the radio today said the driver was possibly watching a movie at the time of the accident.
7/1/2016 12:11pm
AHRMA361 wrote:
A report on the radio today said the driver was possibly watching a movie at the time of the accident.
Tesla says you cannot watch movies on the dash screen.
A reporter asked the truck driver if he saw a movie screen, and he said no, he just heard it.
In the Tesla guy's videos, he was often listening to audiobooks. So it was likely an audiobook.
This looks like bad information that got picked up by news outlets.
SCR
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7/1/2016 1:10pm
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/07/01/141796/s1200_imrs.php.jpg[/img]
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention...


Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But common sense says that it most cases the driver will see what the truck is doing and take action to avoid the accident or at the least be able attempt to do something that may save their life.

Forget about what may have happened and looked at what did happen. I guy who had all the faith in world in technology turned over his own control of the car to a computer chip programmed by who ????. The computer never sees a truck ( not a squierrel, not a child on a bike, not an old lady J-walking, not a small car but the side of a giant truck. And the computer keeps driving full speed right thru it and never hits the breaks and drives thru two fences and hits a power pole. Lucky no one else was killed. Did it ever hit the breaks or get off the gas.

If it cant sort out the side of a tractor trailer how is it going to sort out a school crossing, or parking lot. Forget about the many thousands of unique situations that happen on the road that the human brain reacts to consciously and subconsciously that keeps people from getting into accidents. I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he rides his Segway to work to save the planet from global warming, writing the program for my auto pilot car that is supposed to take into account all the possible situations on the road.

I say if your aren't up to actually driving the car yourself and taking that responsibility than take the bus.



Falcon
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7/1/2016 1:25pm
It is, however, 1 more than the number of fatal auto accidents I've even been in.
Falcon
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7/1/2016 1:26pm
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/07/01/141796/s1200_imrs.php.jpg[/img]
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention...


SCR wrote:
Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But...
Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But common sense says that it most cases the driver will see what the truck is doing and take action to avoid the accident or at the least be able attempt to do something that may save their life.

Forget about what may have happened and looked at what did happen. I guy who had all the faith in world in technology turned over his own control of the car to a computer chip programmed by who ????. The computer never sees a truck ( not a squierrel, not a child on a bike, not an old lady J-walking, not a small car but the side of a giant truck. And the computer keeps driving full speed right thru it and never hits the breaks and drives thru two fences and hits a power pole. Lucky no one else was killed. Did it ever hit the breaks or get off the gas.

If it cant sort out the side of a tractor trailer how is it going to sort out a school crossing, or parking lot. Forget about the many thousands of unique situations that happen on the road that the human brain reacts to consciously and subconsciously that keeps people from getting into accidents. I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he rides his Segway to work to save the planet from global warming, writing the program for my auto pilot car that is supposed to take into account all the possible situations on the road.

I say if your aren't up to actually driving the car yourself and taking that responsibility than take the bus.



This.
7/1/2016 1:49pm
AHRMA361 wrote:
A report on the radio today said the driver was possibly watching a movie at the time of the accident.
Tesla says you cannot watch movies on the dash screen. A reporter asked the truck driver if he saw a movie screen, and he said no...
Tesla says you cannot watch movies on the dash screen.
A reporter asked the truck driver if he saw a movie screen, and he said no, he just heard it.
In the Tesla guy's videos, he was often listening to audiobooks. So it was likely an audiobook.
This looks like bad information that got picked up by news outlets.
They mentioned that as well about the Tesla's dash screen in the news piece but said it was a portable device that they say he might have been watching.
Homey55
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7/1/2016 1:54pm
Does anyone else see the problem with an untrained consumer performing Beta testing on a product with this much liability?

I'm sure this is what the reaction was when the first auto fatality happened a 100 years ago.
7/1/2016 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2016 1:55pm
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/07/01/141796/s1200_imrs.php.jpg[/img]
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention...


SCR wrote:
Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But...
Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But common sense says that it most cases the driver will see what the truck is doing and take action to avoid the accident or at the least be able attempt to do something that may save their life.

Forget about what may have happened and looked at what did happen. I guy who had all the faith in world in technology turned over his own control of the car to a computer chip programmed by who ????. The computer never sees a truck ( not a squierrel, not a child on a bike, not an old lady J-walking, not a small car but the side of a giant truck. And the computer keeps driving full speed right thru it and never hits the breaks and drives thru two fences and hits a power pole. Lucky no one else was killed. Did it ever hit the breaks or get off the gas.

If it cant sort out the side of a tractor trailer how is it going to sort out a school crossing, or parking lot. Forget about the many thousands of unique situations that happen on the road that the human brain reacts to consciously and subconsciously that keeps people from getting into accidents. I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he rides his Segway to work to save the planet from global warming, writing the program for my auto pilot car that is supposed to take into account all the possible situations on the road.

I say if your aren't up to actually driving the car yourself and taking that responsibility than take the bus.



This one sentence says it all, bro: "I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he rides his Segway to work to save the planet from global warming, writing the program for my auto pilot car that is supposed to take into account all the possible situations on the road.'

Autonomous and electric cars in a very short time will sweep away "motor culture" entirely. I predict that certain Americans will hate this idea. But being a "car guy" is going to be about as relevant as a telegraph operator or steam engine mechanic in 25 years. Hot rod culture etc. will be viewed as a quaint and odd practice of yesteryear. Motocross too. The internal combustion engine is quite simply doomed IMO.

My daughter is 2 years old and I doubt she will ever drive a car. I hope she doesn't, because putting teenage girls in control of multi-ton equipment that can travel at high speed is downright stupid. But we have to do it. Someday we will look back and view it as pretty ridiculous that we used to go around smashing into each other and causing incalculable pain and suffering because somebody had to update their Twatter.
Titan1
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7/1/2016 2:02pm
One death out of how many Tesla's on auto pilot, compared to 32,000 deaths out of how many man operated vehicles?
SCR
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7/1/2016 2:23pm
A Tesla on autopilot drove straight into the side of a fucking truck and never got off the gas or hit the brakes. From the looks of the accident report it appears that the computer wasn't smart enough to know it even hit a truck and continued on its Sunday drive thru two fences and doesn't stop until after it hits a power pole. You might as well put a blind man in the car.

I just did a little reading on this. So obviously its not a fully operating self driving car. It can sorta can drive itself down the road without getting in too much trouble as long as nothing to complicated happens. So you are supposed to have your hands on the wheel and be at the ready. OK so what is the point. This shit has no place on the road at this point. I mean common sense about human nature tells you that people are going to get into trouble with this. Its hard for me to believe that this is allowed on the road. What is the plan to make incremental steps in the technology as issues like this come up. " Oh so the car cant detect the side of a truck and some dude got killed" That's not good so we put that on the list of things to fix on the next software update.

Oh yea. The 15" computer screen on the dashboard is awesome. No, its not a safety issue at all because we put a disclaimer that the driver must pay attention to the road and not play around with all the buttons. And yes apparently people are already hacking it so they can play videos.

I don't know I guess its just me.

Its just gonna such when someone kid gets run over by one of these things and it just keeps driving down the road because the sensor only recognized it as a speed bump.
Falcon
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7/1/2016 2:24pm
How many times has your computer crashed, frozen, or slowed down in your lifetime?

How many times has Google returned a search result that wasn't at all what you intended?

How many times have you had to make a sudden change of direction because someone else on the road screwed up?

Can you imagine making a "lesser of two evils" decision, like plunging into a ditch so you won't crash into a schoolbus full of kids?


There are so many ways in which computers will never be as competent as humans that I can't even begin to explain them all. There will be accidents with driverless cars, and some of those will be because the computer made the wrong decision. For some reason I find it acceptable to be killed by a careless driver or plain dumb luck, but infuriating that I might get killed by a soulless computer.
Titan1
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7/1/2016 2:32pm
Look humans can barely talk on the phone and drive at the same time...give them a false sense of security with something called "auto pilot" (which is a pseudo-auto pilot, at best), and it magnifies the problem of distracted driving.

This tech will be our future...but right now, it's not even close to there yet...and it won't be until all of the cars on the road have it (a true auto pilot would have prevented the truck from turning in front of the car).
SCR
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7/1/2016 2:35pm
Falcon wrote:
How many times has your computer crashed, frozen, or slowed down in your lifetime? How many times has Google returned a search result that wasn't at...
How many times has your computer crashed, frozen, or slowed down in your lifetime?

How many times has Google returned a search result that wasn't at all what you intended?

How many times have you had to make a sudden change of direction because someone else on the road screwed up?

Can you imagine making a "lesser of two evils" decision, like plunging into a ditch so you won't crash into a schoolbus full of kids?


There are so many ways in which computers will never be as competent as humans that I can't even begin to explain them all. There will be accidents with driverless cars, and some of those will be because the computer made the wrong decision. For some reason I find it acceptable to be killed by a careless driver or plain dumb luck, but infuriating that I might get killed by a soulless computer.
For some reason I find it acceptable to be killed by a careless driver or plain dumb luck, but infuriating that I might get killed by a soulless computer.

That's how I feel also. And I cant really say why.
Falcon
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7/1/2016 2:50pm
Now we're splitting hairs. I'll concede your logic about the fact that a Tesla is different than a Google car, and that the driver should have been paying more attention.
I think my problem is with cars that have no contingency for manual operation, or that are primarily designed to auto-drive.
SCR
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7/1/2016 2:51pm
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/07/01/141796/s1200_imrs.php.jpg[/img]
For reference, the police sketch of the accident. May have resulted in a similar situation even if the guy was paying attention...


SCR wrote:
Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But...
Sure its always possible that a driver could continue driving at speed and never hit the breaks and drive straight into the truck. It happens. But common sense says that it most cases the driver will see what the truck is doing and take action to avoid the accident or at the least be able attempt to do something that may save their life.

Forget about what may have happened and looked at what did happen. I guy who had all the faith in world in technology turned over his own control of the car to a computer chip programmed by who ????. The computer never sees a truck ( not a squierrel, not a child on a bike, not an old lady J-walking, not a small car but the side of a giant truck. And the computer keeps driving full speed right thru it and never hits the breaks and drives thru two fences and hits a power pole. Lucky no one else was killed. Did it ever hit the breaks or get off the gas.

If it cant sort out the side of a tractor trailer how is it going to sort out a school crossing, or parking lot. Forget about the many thousands of unique situations that happen on the road that the human brain reacts to consciously and subconsciously that keeps people from getting into accidents. I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he rides his Segway to work to save the planet from global warming, writing the program for my auto pilot car that is supposed to take into account all the possible situations on the road.

I say if your aren't up to actually driving the car yourself and taking that responsibility than take the bus.



This one sentence says it all, bro:[i] "I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he...
This one sentence says it all, bro: "I don't like the idea of some 28 year old kid that never drove a car before because he rides his Segway to work to save the planet from global warming, writing the program for my auto pilot car that is supposed to take into account all the possible situations on the road.'

Autonomous and electric cars in a very short time will sweep away "motor culture" entirely. I predict that certain Americans will hate this idea. But being a "car guy" is going to be about as relevant as a telegraph operator or steam engine mechanic in 25 years. Hot rod culture etc. will be viewed as a quaint and odd practice of yesteryear. Motocross too. The internal combustion engine is quite simply doomed IMO.

My daughter is 2 years old and I doubt she will ever drive a car. I hope she doesn't, because putting teenage girls in control of multi-ton equipment that can travel at high speed is downright stupid. But we have to do it. Someday we will look back and view it as pretty ridiculous that we used to go around smashing into each other and causing incalculable pain and suffering because somebody had to update their Twatter.
I agree with you on some of that. I thought the smart phone was kinda the tipping point for me until the reality of self driving cars arrived. Next will be robotics in everyday life like we never imagined. I don't see these things as advancements in life on this planet.

I mean what is the goal. The day no one has to go to work because all work will be done by robotics and all citizens will receive stipend credits on their implanted digital hologram screen I-pad. Forget driverless cars. All food and necessities can be delivered by drones to your little 1,000 square foot Govt regulated and paid for apartment. Where you can just sit your 400lb sloth ass on your couch and live a virtual life thru all this great technology. You can watch and participate in virtual sports where no one ever has to actually get hurt again.

Yea. I cant wait for that technology its going to be great.
APLMAN99
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7/1/2016 2:52pm
Are all Model S Teslas equipped with autopilot or did you post without thinking again?
SCR
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7/1/2016 3:27pm
No. that's right Tesla isn't selling it as a full self driving car. Although I read a bit about it earlier and it has a lot more going on than the other manufacturers driver assist. What is has is much worse because it can sort of drive itself to some extent and regardless of what they sayThey know and have seen it, that people are going to do stupid shit.

And I would say the driver assist that is already out there is dangerous IMO. Sure it can hit the brakes and avoid a rear end by someone who is not paying attention, and ring a bell or whatever if you drift toward something.

But I think people get complacent with this stuff. Especially people who are already irresponsible driver that don't pay attention.

I don't want the car hitting the brakes when Im doing 70mph because it mistaked a paper bag for anther car and then I have a tractor trailer rear end me because the computer got confused. Or how about driving along in auto assist mode or whatever and shit hits the fan in front of you and you go to take control of the car and you can see 25 different things the computer cant comprehend and you decide to gas it and turn hard right off of the road, but the computer is fighting you and trying to just hit the brakes and stop.

I don't believe a computer working off of sensors and cameras can be aware of, and make all the conscious and subconscious decisions the brain can.

Im just sayinHuh if you have a self driving car keep it the fuck away from me because if I don't see a driver at the wheel I will subconsciously drive it off the road.
kzizok
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7/1/2016 3:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2016 3:35pm
Around 50 million auto pilot miles for Tesla and around 1.5 million for Google auto pilot.
kzizok
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7/1/2016 3:41pm



Relax. I understand it is from April. Just interjecting.
7/1/2016 3:48pm
Anybody in this thread own shares in Tesla?
7/1/2016 3:53pm
AHRMA361 wrote:
A report on the radio today said the driver was possibly watching a movie at the time of the accident.
Tesla says you cannot watch movies on the dash screen. A reporter asked the truck driver if he saw a movie screen, and he said no...
Tesla says you cannot watch movies on the dash screen.
A reporter asked the truck driver if he saw a movie screen, and he said no, he just heard it.
In the Tesla guy's videos, he was often listening to audiobooks. So it was likely an audiobook.
This looks like bad information that got picked up by news outlets.
AHRMA361 wrote:
They mentioned that as well about the Tesla's dash screen in the news piece but said it was a portable device that they say he might...
They mentioned that as well about the Tesla's dash screen in the news piece but said it was a portable device that they say he might have been watching.
More info on the DVD story...Harry Potter of all things..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autopilot-dvd-idUSKCN0ZH5BW


A digital video disc player was found in the Tesla car that was on autopilot when its driver was killed in a collision with a truck in May, Florida Highway Patrol officials said on Friday.

"There was a portable DVD player in the vehicle," said Sergeant Kim Montes of the FHP in a telephone interview. She said there was no camera found, mounted on the dash or of any kind, in the wreckage.

A lawyer for a truck driver involved in the accident with the Tesla told Reuters his investigators had spoken to a witness who said the DVD player was playing a "Harry Potter" video after the accident, but the lawyer was unable to verify that beyond the witness account.
SCR
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7/1/2016 9:19pm
SCR wrote:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-de…

I didn't know any of these cars were operating already. I cant even begin to express how bad of an idea this on so many levels, IMO.

In a blogpost: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle"

WHAT? you design a autopilot system for the car but expect the driver to keep his hands on the wheel and pay attention? That like selling cocaine over the counter at the grocery store with the expectation that people will use it responsibly. Also what the fuck is " publice beta phase" ?

I know a lot of people cant help themselves when it comes to some new technology and think anything with a micro chip will make the world a better place. But if one of those auto pilot cars even gets close to me, Im going to loose my shit. Woohoo
Ha ha. No, that's good I like it. I read that earlier and I didn't get it.
7/2/2016 7:40am
Wait till we are all driving autopilot cars and some hacker waps them with a virus.

Ever seen the nationwide commercial? RECALCULATING TURN LEFT NMNOOOWWW. craaaaassh.

I'll drive my car.

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