You can't have your cake and eat it.....

[quote="flarider":1fctcu7s]Guess that depends on each individual company and decision maker[/quote:1fctcu7s]


Let's just say in the case of BBMX.....

Do you think their drink sponsor is more bothered more by, and perhaps contributes less to them because of, the fact that they are stifled in their marketing efforts throught the team or because another racer might not have a semi truck?

None of the energy drink companies are happy, none....DNA, Red Bull, Fusion, etc...none
and they don't care about pick up truck privateers at this point

[quote="flarider":1taiylja]None of the energy drink companies are happy, none....DNA, Red Bull, Fusion, etc...none
and they don't care about pick up truck privateers at this point[/quote:1taiylja]


Did they ever? Really?

[quote="flarider":3lizzsn6]Double edged sword, guys.

Everyone wants bigger purses, but no one wants the sport to grow.
How can you expect bigger purses without growth?

Some of you need to make up your minds about what you want, because you can't have it both ways.
Either the sport grows, changes and adapts in order to increase revenues to pay the desired higher purses or you stagnate growth and keep the sport status quo

Choose[/quote:3lizzsn6]

Atlanta was sold out or close to it right?

There are 8 Super Suites, 164 executive suites, the Penthouse Suite and 4,600 club seats. The Dome's permanent seating capacity is 71,250. x 30.00 = $2,137,500 bucks. I made a wild guess at the average ticket prices. Most of the top riders are a bunch of whiney aces anyway, except for jonnyO in his pickup truck. Heck I'm going out to big Cedar this weekend and will see more racing while having a better time for less money. I'll support local Moto.

[quote="Crash82":1y3afckj]

Atlanta was sold out or close to it right?

There are 8 Super Suites, 164 executive suites, the Penthouse Suite and 4,600 club seats. The Dome's permanent seating capacity is 71,250. x 30.00 = $2,137,500 bucks. I made a wild guess at the average ticket prices. Most of the top riders are a bunch of whiney aces anyway, except for jonnyO in his pickup truck. Heck I'm going out to big Cedar this weekend and will see more racing while having a better time for less money. I'll support local Moto.[/quote:1y3afckj]
OK math genius, what are the estimated total costs of operating a SX?

[quote="flarider":3m8trpj7][quote="Crash82":3m8trpj7]

Atlanta was sold out or close to it right?

There are 8 Super Suites, 164 executive suites, the Penthouse Suite and 4,600 club seats. The Dome's permanent seating capacity is 71,250. x 30.00 = $2,137,500 bucks. I made a wild guess at the average ticket prices. Most of the top riders are a bunch of whiney aces anyway, except for jonnyO in his pickup truck. Heck I'm going out to big Cedar this weekend and will see more racing while having a better time for less money. I'll support local Moto.[/quote:3m8trpj7]
OK math genius, what are the estimated total costs of operating a SX?[/quote:3m8trpj7]

$564,394.32 operating cost, can we factor in 156,432 beers at 9.00 a pop?

I spoke to Jerry Rackliffe, vice president of finance and affairs at Georiga State and he said rental and operating costs at the Dome would come to about $47,000 per home game. Ok not really but this figure came from this article,

http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewA ... LID=860637

Now go take care of Matt it's his juice time.

So you don't know

OK

DOME STADIUM
Supercross/
Tractor Pull/Rodeo
Concert-Stage East End
Concert-in-the-Round

DOME STADIUM $55,000
or
15% of net paid admission receipts,*
whichever is greater

http://www.gadome.com/booking/documents ... dules3.pdf

I think 500,000 will cover track building and all, whatever Fla, we know you are in it for the love of the sport.

That's it?
That's all?

So, like I said, you don't know.

Go back to attacking people's permanently disabling injuries

Another thing to think about is that the average Nascar fan pays what.... $75 a ticket to see a race?
Football fans pay hundreds of dollars for one ticket. I'm sure this plays a big part in the money equation.
The question in my mind is will the average motocross fan ever be willing to pay that much to see a SX or MX race?

Matt, I'll ask you the same question as Dave.

Which do you think "holds back" the money train in the sport more, deals like with BBMX where they can't fully market their product, or a local guy showing up to try to qualify?

[quote="APLMAN":es8lrz45]Matt, I'll ask you the same question as Dave.

Which do you think "holds back" the money train in the sport more, deals like with BBMX where they can't fully market their product, or a local guy showing up to try to qualify?[/quote:es8lrz45]

Answer: the lack of a decent TV package is what is killing the "growth" of the sport.

I just want to see Hillbilly jump a SX triple in the mud!! How can we enter Hillbilly for the Seattle SX???

the question is what are ya gonna do about home slice?

short of the top 20 riders forming a union and going the way that the bull riders did you gotta take it up the ass and LIKE it.

next.....

Matt I agree on most of that, i particularly agree with running things as a business no question there. Owning a riding park and a race track I understand that perception. thats why I made the promoters comment.

bobby is right [quote:1a98agx8]short of the top 20 riders forming a union and going the way that the bull riders did you gotta take it up the ass and LIKE it.

next.....[/quote:1a98agx8]


Eickel tried something like that 10 years ago and got nailed for it if I remember correctly. my opinion is that these riders are taking a huge risk, and deserve a better paycheck, now how does this happen isn't something I can say "do this " and it will be fixed.

dave you have to admit that a stadium full of people and that kind of purse money doesn't add up ? no i don't know what it costs, but I have found out over the years that misconceptions both ways are huge, and if i was a betting man, I would bet that LN could, and AMa should get the purse into a reasonalbe area and that they could do it. my example is simple, we have a little race series that pays a lot more purse then any track around,(17 years now) we did it for years before we had "great turn outs", (300+ average for a night sx track all summer long) it's maybe not exact sience, but if the promoter truely respected the racer, the purse issue wouldn't have come up over and over for the last 20 years. I think if the "pro am" races start to do better and those kind of venues like even arenacross become more popular, gas stays 3 bucs, many riders make way more money staying closer to home, and riding local......

As long as the factories control the top talent, it will remain the same no mater who the promoter is. The factories want to sell bike, quads, genrerators, etc and could care less about energy drinks or the privateer. The promoters need the top talent that the factories have and can get buy with whoever else shows up. That leaves the promoter to go after any big bucks out there in regard to ad dollars and lets them compete with teams like the BBMX guys. If you are a big company and can get a sign in every arena or at every track where the series goes, why would you sponsor a rider who may get hurt or can't hand out stickers in the pits.

The reason NASCAR works is the teams own the talent and there are bigger ad dollars available from sponsors other than auto makers. Also, NASCAR knows it doesn't need every dollar out there. They make it attractive for corp. to sponsor teams. The more diverse the teams, drivers, and sponsors are, the more people they have watching and the more the TV package is worth. The MX/SX deal is the exact opposite.

All motorcycle sports at the top level will remain as they are. I don't see any promoter raising the level of exposure to the point that someone other than the OEM's control the top talent. If that were to happen, the promoters would be giving the top riders the ability to compete for add dollars that the promoters would much rather keep for themselves.

If you want an example, look at Live Nation and their Monster Truck shows. They own the whole deal clear down to the trucks and drivers. You want to advertise to the Monster Truck crowd? Who would you write the check to? I wonder why the TV package for Monster Truck is way better than SX?

No one, not even LN denies that they make a profit, it's what they're in business for.
The reason I always ask those who bring up income if they know costs, is that I don't think (and from what I know) they're not making as much as people think, and you do need to keep perspective on "as much as people think." What seems like a lot to you and I, could be fractional to a multi-billion dollar company.
MXFreak has gone through the CCE/LN SEC Filing and posted it, showing that LN's Motorsports division (SX, Monster Jam, IHRA) LOST a few million dollars in the year prior and SX was the lowest attended event of the three. That might explain why the LN MS division is up for sale, huh?
People also seem to forget or do not know that LN pays more, over two times more, than the contracted purse in series ending bonuses...they pay MORE than contracted to do, a lot more.
I'm not defending LN in stating this, only informing.

Has it been mentioned anywhere if anyone has offered to buy the MS division from LN?

Month or so ago a rumor went crazy saying it was sold, or more specifically SX had been sold (but I think it's all a package deal)

With the current economic difficulties I would suffice to say that an offer to buy might not come to fruition very quickly or at all. Many "series/event" sponsors have and continue to pull out of other sports events. Could be troubling times ahead. Not that that's a surprise to anyone. Plus with SX being the lowest MS on the totem pole financially for LN, that is unattractive to a potential buyer as well. Something like that may deter a potential buyer to not want to buy the entire "MS division". Leaving SX as the stepchild and lone entity.

TFS is spot on. BBMX nor Jason Thomas could market their T shirts at an SX or national either. With a recession coming you'll see companies looking long and hard about where they will put thier racing doallars. Sooner or later something will givw. Nice rant Matt but it's "here" and "shoo" and not "hear" and "shoe"!

A new promoter needs to come in and handle things like a professional sport. Do you think the New York Yankees set the contracts for the players? No, they are contracted to MLB and the teams agree to honor said contract. Also there is a league minimum. If we cut out anyone not in a semi with a professional look then theres not enough riders, plenty of talent, just not enough rigs. So we make a league minimum, where each rider at least gets paid enough to go to each race and not worry about how they are going to pay for dinner that night. So now if we have each rider that qualifies to have their SX license contracted for X amount of money to do the entire series you will see the entries begin to rise.

If LN, or whoever isn't allowing proper promotion of sponsors, pulls their head out of their ass then maybe someone call pull in some real sponsors. Panasonic for example, they sponsor plenty of action sports athletes, but no MXers.. why? Red Bull and Monster are great, but they are a drop in the bucket to what SX/MX could be pulling down. More sponsors, more money, more TV.

As far as the talent, there is plenty of talent. The problem is there is no where for non factory riders to get on a SX track and get comfortable. Why are there umpteen amounts of pro baseball players? Well for starters there are 4 or 5 baseball fields in every town. So now that these guys at least make some money for becoming a professional athlete they can afford to go to MTF, GPF or build their own SX track to practice on.

[quote="Twizzler":24e5ql3k]Plus with SX being the lowest MS on the totem pole financially for LN, that is unattractive to a potential buyer as well. Something like that may deter a potential buyer to not want to buy the entire "MS division". Leaving SX as the stepchild and lone entity.[/quote:24e5ql3k]


A good businessmen buys a struggling business for cheap and makes it grow.

[quote="flarider":15pv4ugy][quote="Crash82":15pv4ugy]

Atlanta was sold out or close to it right?

There are 8 Super Suites, 164 executive suites, the Penthouse Suite and 4,600 club seats. The Dome's permanent seating capacity is 71,250. x 30.00 = $2,137,500 bucks. I made a wild guess at the average ticket prices. Most of the top riders are a bunch of whiney aces anyway, except for jonnyO in his pickup truck. Heck I'm going out to big Cedar this weekend and will see more racing while having a better time for less money. I'll support local Moto.[/quote:15pv4ugy]
OK math genius, what are the estimated total costs of operating a SX?[/quote:15pv4ugy]

well Dave you got your non-answer. Time for you to enlighten us. How much for an SX? How much for an MX?

[quote="evsracer912":2skavge8][quote="Twizzler":2skavge8]Plus with SX being the lowest MS on the totem pole financially for LN, that is unattractive to a potential buyer as well. Something like that may deter a potential buyer to not want to buy the entire "MS division". Leaving SX as the stepchild and lone entity.[/quote:2skavge8]


A good businessmen buys a struggling business for cheap and makes it grow.[/quote:2skavge8]
Yup

Look at UFC
When the Fertitta's bought it, UFC was weeks from bankruptcy, now it's making huge money and is the fastest growing thing going in sport

[quote="evsracer912":2tcb9tc4][quote="Twizzler":2tcb9tc4]Plus with SX being the lowest MS on the totem pole financially for LN, that is unattractive to a potential buyer as well. Something like that may deter a potential buyer to not want to buy the entire "MS division". Leaving SX as the stepchild and lone entity.[/quote:2tcb9tc4]


A good businessmen buys a struggling business for cheap and makes it grow.[/quote:2tcb9tc4]

Yeah, I know that. But the current SX model of "too many cooks in the kitchen" may detract potential buyers. A LOT of change is needed to make SX a windfall of a success. That we all know. I'm not saying it cannot be done. But it will take an act of God.

[quote="flarider":1txagpql]No one, not even LN denies that they make a profit, it's what they're in business for.
The reason I always ask those who bring up income if they know costs, is that I don't think (and from what I know) they're not making as much as people think, and you do need to keep perspective on "as much as people think." What seems like a lot to you and I, could be fractional to a multi-billion dollar company.
MXFreak has gone through the CCE/LN SEC Filing and posted it, showing that LN's Motorsports division (SX, Monster Jam, IHRA) LOST a few million dollars in the year prior and SX was the lowest attended event of the three. That might explain why the LN MS division is up for sale, huh?
People also seem to forget or do not know that LN pays more, over two times more, than the contracted purse in series ending bonuses...they pay MORE than contracted to do, a lot more.
I'm not defending LN in stating this, only informing.[/quote:1txagpql]

judging by how many are going to overlook this post...

...you could post the costs of running a stadium sx and people would still argue.

someone here said it best:
"you cannot reason with people who didnt use logic/reason to form their beliefs in the first place"

NASCAR works with it's teams and so does the TV. "Hey Bobby Gofast is having a good run in the 20th place XYZ sponsored Dodge today" Now compare that to SX where they just show the leader. NASCAR knows how to spread things out and even if they take a smaller cut of all the dollars thay can make more money by having more and more dollars roll in. Now the SX /MX folks are a small greedy few who are scared to death to give up or change their little bit of the pie.

12 min mains don't give much time for anything.