Attendance?

yak651
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Appleton, WI US
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4/4/2016 2:22pm
Put them all on 250's. The 450's are too much for the stadiums, everyone on 250s would lead to more action, can make sections that not everyone can do, etc.
PRM31
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4/4/2016 2:51pm
Live TV and stadiums that are pain in the A$$ to get out of afterwards. Oh, and mains that last about 15 min. Firing up the grill and the big screen at home looks pretty inviting all the sudden. I love live sporting events, but I've found the satisfaction level has dropped below the hassle level. A personal beef, but SX is starting to come across more like a monster truck event than a professional sports event. I don't get that feeling when I'm at Budds Creek for MX.
bsharkey
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Marysville, WA US
4/4/2016 3:19pm
funny seatles has NEVER had attenadance issues ever.
MMCDan
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Beaumont, CA US
4/4/2016 5:03pm
I still have a hard time deciding if SX is a real sport or if it is just entertainment. Whichever it is, I think it fails at both:

As a sport, the only thing we determine each week is who can get the best start. With the track designs, and as talented as these guys are, the rider that holeshots (or starts within the top 5) usually wins. The races are sooo boring.

As entertainment, the show is stale and the races are sooo boring.

I'm not sure what the answer is; chase format, 2 strokes, joker lane, who knows. I watched a bit of a Monster Jam the other night and it was sold out so maybe "dumbing down" the sport/show is what's needed. Or go the other direction and get technical with rules and venues like MotoGP. My middle-aged, non-riding wife sleeps through SX but won't miss a minute of a MotoGP race.

The Shop

yzrider53
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Walnut Creek, CA US
4/4/2016 6:35pm
Didn't read all the pages here, local paper claimed 42k in attendance
4/4/2016 6:46pm
Too Expensive!!!!!!

I paid $90 for 300 level in Dallas, and only $45 for 100 level in Toronto. With the concessions gouging, makes for an expensive night!!
John250
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Xenia, OH US
4/4/2016 8:02pm
Start with the 250 class. Tons of fast guys in the 250 class. Make this more of a production class with VERY strict rules on the bikes. 2 seasons in this class and your no longer eligible. You can still have east / west to keep cost down for the guys in this class.

Increase the MONEY in the 450 class. The top 250 guys not racing in the 250 class will have serious motivation to be in the big boy class. Make the top three mean more in the heat races. Bonus points, and MONEY. Give these guys motivation to battle to be in that top 3. Increase the laps in the main by 5 laps. BIG MONEY and more points to the top 3.

Tracks. MUST be tougher. Right now, every one goes the same speed and does the exact same thing. And I am not talking about bigger triples and quads. You can make more challenging wall jumps, sand sections, off camber corners, etc. The whoops need to be tough too. No more just blitzing the top of them. With the talent level today, and the bikes....big whoops all the same size are just blitzed.

Have a SX champ and MX champ, but also combine the points between the two to have a overall US AMA Motocross Champion. This is the guy that gets the #1 plate for the following SX and MX series. No more SX specialist, or MX specialist. You need to be able to race both.
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA US
4/4/2016 8:02pm
OW38B wrote:
Atlanta 2 was so successful they did it again this year? The Anaheim races always did well until a few years ago when the ticket prices...
Atlanta 2 was so successful they did it again this year?

The Anaheim races always did well until a few years ago when the ticket prices went from $50/60 to the current $90/100. I went to my first Anaheim in 1977 and always went every year until this year.

You get a tad "jaded" when you have been to 50 or so SX's.
GuyB wrote:
Hmm...I've been to something over 150 of them. :) Santa Clara was on the light side for sure. I just look at it as lots of...
Hmm...I've been to something over 150 of them. Smile

Santa Clara was on the light side for sure. I just look at it as lots of elbow room. Wink
150?..........Bragger! Laughing

Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX US
4/4/2016 8:34pm
You want races that mean something?

You want to see the top riders more often?

You want less predictability of results and bar to bar racing?

Do you find a variety of bikes interesting?

Here you go:

1 class any bike (including dropping all rules, to include factory specials, 2 stroke, electric etc. and no homolgation)

80 riders run 4 quarterfinals 10 minutes

40 riders run 2 semifinals 10 minutes

20 rider main event 15 minutes



4/4/2016 8:53pm
Honestly, the main reason I no longer go to a live SX event is I refuse to sit through a 3.5 hour commercial that I have to pay for. It's not about anything else but that.
4/4/2016 9:16pm
Most empty seats I've seen this year.
40k plus out of 60k available

SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout.

Someone forgot to tell Feld that Levi's stadium has a HORRIBLE reputation locally for it's traffic. It's hard to get the locals to want to go to that stadium even for 49ers games let alone a 3rd tier sport.
FastEddy
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💀, FL US
4/4/2016 9:18pm
40k plus out of 60k available SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout. Someone forgot...
40k plus out of 60k available

SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout.

Someone forgot to tell Feld that Levi's stadium has a HORRIBLE reputation locally for it's traffic. It's hard to get the locals to want to go to that stadium even for 49ers games let alone a 3rd tier sport.
Hopefully they can replace that event with one back up in the Northwest.
4/4/2016 9:21pm
OW38B wrote:
Do we think there is any correlation between the ticket prices and/or Live coverage and attendance? All of the California venues prices are 50% higher than...
Do we think there is any correlation between the ticket prices and/or Live coverage and attendance?

All of the California venues prices are 50% higher than they were 5 years ago.

You have Boston and New York Supercross's coming up and that will tell you if it's a California thing or a price thing.


Ask Feld how that second Atlanta race went last year?
Bodieg3 wrote:
Atlanta was pretty full last year considering it was back to back weekends . That was doomed from start but still pulled more fans than a-2...
Atlanta was pretty full last year considering it was back to back weekends . That was doomed from start but still pulled more fans than a-2 or a-3
OW38B wrote:
Atlanta 2 was so successful they did it again this year? The Anaheim races always did well until a few years ago when the ticket prices...
Atlanta 2 was so successful they did it again this year?

The Anaheim races always did well until a few years ago when the ticket prices went from $50/60 to the current $90/100. I went to my first Anaheim in 1977 and always went every year until this year.

You get a tad "jaded" when you have been to 50 or so SX's.
Atlanta 2 was a flop. Rent is so much higher for that stadium than at Anaheim. If they dont do 60k+ Atlanta doesnt pencil out.

Not to mention, any round run in Southern California is world's cheaper for the teams to make happen. That plays a factor.

Also, factor in tourism boards & concessions split % with the venue. It's all negotiable.

Seattle lost it's SX and it had NOTHING to do with poor attendance. There are several variables. Sometimes the ticket prices are a result of higher rent or a new split of the concessions revenue. You never know exactly unless you know the details of those negotiations with the venues.

Expect Nashville and Carolina to get rounds next year.
4/4/2016 9:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/4/2016 9:23pm
40k plus out of 60k available SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout. Someone forgot...
40k plus out of 60k available

SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout.

Someone forgot to tell Feld that Levi's stadium has a HORRIBLE reputation locally for it's traffic. It's hard to get the locals to want to go to that stadium even for 49ers games let alone a 3rd tier sport.
FastEddy wrote:
Hopefully they can replace that event with one back up in the Northwest.
No. Expect some more east coast/southern rounds. Nashville & Carolina is what Im hearing.

Tho, to your point, it's a damn shame Seattle lost it's round. It's blasphemous.
WhipMeister
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Big D, TX US
4/4/2016 11:24pm
40k plus out of 60k available SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout. Someone forgot...
40k plus out of 60k available

SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout.

Someone forgot to tell Feld that Levi's stadium has a HORRIBLE reputation locally for it's traffic. It's hard to get the locals to want to go to that stadium even for 49ers games let alone a 3rd tier sport.
They must've all been in line for the john. That place was better than half-empty to my eye.
JPT
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Cedar Falls, IA US
4/5/2016 6:46am
Repeating myself, but triples and the like are not conducive to close racing. But it is what people want so don't know what you're going to do.
4/5/2016 1:39pm
40k plus out of 60k available SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout. Someone forgot...
40k plus out of 60k available

SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout.

Someone forgot to tell Feld that Levi's stadium has a HORRIBLE reputation locally for it's traffic. It's hard to get the locals to want to go to that stadium even for 49ers games let alone a 3rd tier sport.
They must've all been in line for the john. That place was better than half-empty to my eye.
Cold bay area weather + new stadium with pretty nice amenities in the concourse = Tough to get fans to stay in their seats. So the "look" of the attendance could be deceiving.

Compare that to Anaheim, which is old as fuck (tho renovated) it's still a crowded mess in the concession areas. That sorta forces people to their seats.

Furthermore, if Saturday's race were held at Angels stadium 43k attendance wouldve been damn near a sellout and a win for everyone involved. Anaheim is simply much cheaper to rent and easier for the teams to get too. A stadium set up for 60k in attendance also has to be staffed for a potential 60k fans. If only 2/3 of the building is full, that means they over staffed the event by 33% and considering the way Levi's Stadium does things that is a HUGE expense. That's why Atlanta 2 is no more. only 40k+ showed up for the second one but they were staffed and set up for 70k.

Here's some food for thought, renting a luxury box at Atlanta SX is $2k. Atlanta's dome is set to be replaced here soon but it's not a dump by any means. The stadium is barely of drinking age. That same luxury box at Levi's was $4k and it was better business for them to have it empty than sell it to someone willing to pay $2500. Crazy economics, huh?

And again, we dont know how the revenue split was negotiated between Feld & Levi's. For all we know, Levi's didnt give Feld ANY of the concessions revenue. I can guarantee that Angels stadium offers up a much sweeter deal. It's just so much easier for everyone to make money.

A even better comparison to Levi's is right across the bay to the Oakland coliseum. Renting that venue out is but a FRACTION of the cost of Levi's. And while Oakland coliseum doesnt give up any of it's concession revenue, the rent on the event is probably about $1-2 per ticket (educated guesstimate) and the stadium is setup to hold around 45k spectators so if only 40k show up, that's a big success for everyone involved. Not to mention, locals know that the coliseum isnt a parking nightmare like Levi's is.

Levi's is a big boy venue that only really works for big boy events. SX just doesnt generate the fans/revenue needed. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the new stadium in Atlanta is finished and how that affects the economics of that event. Some of these new venues are pricing out the "smaller" events unfortunately.
WhipMeister
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4/5/2016 2:04pm
40k plus out of 60k available SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout. Someone forgot...
40k plus out of 60k available

SX will not be back to Santa Clara. Rent is too steep to have that bad a turnout.

Someone forgot to tell Feld that Levi's stadium has a HORRIBLE reputation locally for it's traffic. It's hard to get the locals to want to go to that stadium even for 49ers games let alone a 3rd tier sport.
They must've all been in line for the john. That place was better than half-empty to my eye.
Cold bay area weather + new stadium with pretty nice amenities in the concourse = Tough to get fans to stay in their seats. So the...
Cold bay area weather + new stadium with pretty nice amenities in the concourse = Tough to get fans to stay in their seats. So the "look" of the attendance could be deceiving.

Compare that to Anaheim, which is old as fuck (tho renovated) it's still a crowded mess in the concession areas. That sorta forces people to their seats.

Furthermore, if Saturday's race were held at Angels stadium 43k attendance wouldve been damn near a sellout and a win for everyone involved. Anaheim is simply much cheaper to rent and easier for the teams to get too. A stadium set up for 60k in attendance also has to be staffed for a potential 60k fans. If only 2/3 of the building is full, that means they over staffed the event by 33% and considering the way Levi's Stadium does things that is a HUGE expense. That's why Atlanta 2 is no more. only 40k+ showed up for the second one but they were staffed and set up for 70k.

Here's some food for thought, renting a luxury box at Atlanta SX is $2k. Atlanta's dome is set to be replaced here soon but it's not a dump by any means. The stadium is barely of drinking age. That same luxury box at Levi's was $4k and it was better business for them to have it empty than sell it to someone willing to pay $2500. Crazy economics, huh?

And again, we dont know how the revenue split was negotiated between Feld & Levi's. For all we know, Levi's didnt give Feld ANY of the concessions revenue. I can guarantee that Angels stadium offers up a much sweeter deal. It's just so much easier for everyone to make money.

A even better comparison to Levi's is right across the bay to the Oakland coliseum. Renting that venue out is but a FRACTION of the cost of Levi's. And while Oakland coliseum doesnt give up any of it's concession revenue, the rent on the event is probably about $1-2 per ticket (educated guesstimate) and the stadium is setup to hold around 45k spectators so if only 40k show up, that's a big success for everyone involved. Not to mention, locals know that the coliseum isnt a parking nightmare like Levi's is.

Levi's is a big boy venue that only really works for big boy events. SX just doesnt generate the fans/revenue needed. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the new stadium in Atlanta is finished and how that affects the economics of that event. Some of these new venues are pricing out the "smaller" events unfortunately.
That's sure a lot of guesstimating...
Mit12
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4/5/2016 2:11pm
John250 wrote:
Start with the 250 class. Tons of fast guys in the 250 class. Make this more of a production class with VERY strict rules on the...
Start with the 250 class. Tons of fast guys in the 250 class. Make this more of a production class with VERY strict rules on the bikes. 2 seasons in this class and your no longer eligible. You can still have east / west to keep cost down for the guys in this class.

Increase the MONEY in the 450 class. The top 250 guys not racing in the 250 class will have serious motivation to be in the big boy class. Make the top three mean more in the heat races. Bonus points, and MONEY. Give these guys motivation to battle to be in that top 3. Increase the laps in the main by 5 laps. BIG MONEY and more points to the top 3.

Tracks. MUST be tougher. Right now, every one goes the same speed and does the exact same thing. And I am not talking about bigger triples and quads. You can make more challenging wall jumps, sand sections, off camber corners, etc. The whoops need to be tough too. No more just blitzing the top of them. With the talent level today, and the bikes....big whoops all the same size are just blitzed.

Have a SX champ and MX champ, but also combine the points between the two to have a overall US AMA Motocross Champion. This is the guy that gets the #1 plate for the following SX and MX series. No more SX specialist, or MX specialist. You need to be able to race both.
They had that back in the 80's. David Bailey won it 2 or 3 times. It was the grand national Champion and they ran a Blue back ground plate the next year. So it was possible to have 2 number 1 plates at the races. Was confusing to the fans so the AMA dropped the idea.
dkg
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4/5/2016 3:35pm
OW38B wrote:
Atlanta 2 was so successful they did it again this year? The Anaheim races always did well until a few years ago when the ticket prices...
Atlanta 2 was so successful they did it again this year?

The Anaheim races always did well until a few years ago when the ticket prices went from $50/60 to the current $90/100. I went to my first Anaheim in 1977 and always went every year until this year.

You get a tad "jaded" when you have been to 50 or so SX's.
GuyB wrote:
Hmm...I've been to something over 150 of them. :) Santa Clara was on the light side for sure. I just look at it as lots of...
Hmm...I've been to something over 150 of them. Smile

Santa Clara was on the light side for sure. I just look at it as lots of elbow room. Wink
My first one was one of the early Mickey Thompson Coliseum events. Cant remember the year, but, want to say it was 1976. Does anyone remember what the ticket prices were back then?
twizzler
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CA US
4/5/2016 4:09pm
I met my wife in 2007, introduced her to mx and SX racing. I took her to her first ever SX January 2008 and she loved it. We went together to every SoCal race for the first 4 years. But she was becoming bored with the racing and the race format. So she stopped wanting to go saying it's too boring and same ole same ole every race. She knew nothing about the sport, got hooked on it and now is bored of it. That says something needs to change. Some here have some good ideas. The Chase Format may help, time will tell. But something needs to be done.
WFO!
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Beverly Hills, CA US
4/5/2016 4:51pm
OW38B wrote:
Do we think there is any correlation between the ticket prices and/or Live coverage and attendance? All of the California venues prices are 50% higher than...
Do we think there is any correlation between the ticket prices and/or Live coverage and attendance?

All of the California venues prices are 50% higher than they were 5 years ago.

You have Boston and New York Supercross's coming up and that will tell you if it's a California thing or a price thing.


Ask Feld how that second Atlanta race went last year?
Well, I can tell you this.

I have fond memories of the Boston SX. (Photo below I took in 1983 at Foxboro)

And with that said I have no desire at all to go this year.

The action (or lack of it) doesn't justify the expense and effort to go to the stadium anymore. Not even close.

When real fans are skipping SX events - especially rare ones like Boston after all these years - that says something is wrong.

PNWOffroad
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Bend, OR US
4/5/2016 5:39pm
Bring SX back to Oregon and Washington, both states have a HUGE moto scene and seats would sell fast IMO
4/5/2016 7:36pm
That's sure a lot of guesstimating...
The only guestimate is the price of Oakland Coliseum's rent to hold an event there.

And I make that guess based on the known/easily verifiable figures they charge for other events such as pro baseball & football.
crfby
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Prairie Du Sac, WI US
4/5/2016 7:55pm
Having big triples are OK for raceing if that's what the newbie fan wants to see, just don't put them 10 feet out of a bowl turn. How stupid are these track builders . I can watch the dumb ass ps3 hot lap and tell u the one corner which will provide a passing opportunity . sorry drunk text
WhipMeister
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Big D, TX US
4/5/2016 8:07pm
That's sure a lot of guesstimating...
The only guestimate is the price of Oakland Coliseum's rent to hold an event there. And I make that guess based on the known/easily verifiable figures...
The only guestimate is the price of Oakland Coliseum's rent to hold an event there.

And I make that guess based on the known/easily verifiable figures they charge for other events such as pro baseball & football.
So you *know* Anaheim's buyout fee. And Levi's buyout fee. And Atlanta's buyout fee. Wow. Had no idea you are so well-connected. Put 'em out there. I'm sure we'd all like to know the figures. And about that revenue split. You really know that, too?
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA US
4/5/2016 9:21pm
dkg wrote:
My first one was one of the early Mickey Thompson Coliseum events. Cant remember the year, but, want to say it was 1976. Does anyone remember...
My first one was one of the early Mickey Thompson Coliseum events. Cant remember the year, but, want to say it was 1976. Does anyone remember what the ticket prices were back then?
From 1978:

VIP = $12
Reserved = $9
Reserved = $6

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