Stroupe? Don't know if its true

3/20/2016 9:59pm
The Rock wrote:
It is easy for you and me not to take them. Beyond that it depends on whether or not you believe in addictive personality types. In...
It is easy for you and me not to take them.

Beyond that it depends on whether or not you believe in addictive personality types. In my experience some people cannot control their urges for opiates and alcohol while others obviously can.

I'm not perfect so can accept that others don't possess the same self control over drugs and alcohol that I have. Doesn't make me better or smarter just fortunate.


Quite an air of superiority you have there..."I am strong...they are weak"...etc. It is not as much about people not being able to control their impulses...
Quite an air of superiority you have there..."I am strong...they are weak"...etc. It is not as much about people not being able to control their impulses or personality types, or willpower as you think.

You are assuming that what the person who is pre-disposed to addiction feels, and what you feel is the same. It is not even close. The intensity of the high that some people get from drugs is dramatically higher than others. I too do not have any issues with drugs or booze, but I have no illusions that it is because I am stronger, etc. The high I get (booze, pot, stimulants, opiates) is simply not that intense. It is a lot easier to have the power to overcome the temptation when the feeling is not that great to you.

If the high felt 10x a good, and the low felt 10x as bad....we both might be be one moment of experimentation away from a screwed up life. When that one moment comes as a result of opiate/pain med withdrawals from a MX injury, it is even more sad.
I think at the core u and Rock are both saying the same thing.

He doesnt see himself as "superior" in his decision making. Just fortunate in the genetic hand he was dealt.
3/20/2016 10:05pm Edited Date/Time 3/20/2016 10:08pm
Yeah, maybe that was an unfair interpretation. The "In my experience some people cannot control their urges for opiates and alcohol while others obviously can" comment, to me, was way off base.

Again, it assumes that what the "addict" feels and what we feel is the same. It is not. It is not even close. It is not just about some people being able to control it, and others not. This assumes the "it" (the highs/lows that drive addiction) is the same for all of us. They are not, and the difference in intensity in these feelings is huge between different people.

You can tell yourself you have better control, but the reality is you are not trying to control the same thing as the addict.
3/20/2016 10:50pm Edited Date/Time 3/20/2016 10:52pm
Yeah, maybe that was an unfair interpretation. The "In my experience some people cannot control their urges for opiates and alcohol while others obviously can" comment...
Yeah, maybe that was an unfair interpretation. The "In my experience some people cannot control their urges for opiates and alcohol while others obviously can" comment, to me, was way off base.

Again, it assumes that what the "addict" feels and what we feel is the same. It is not. It is not even close. It is not just about some people being able to control it, and others not. This assumes the "it" (the highs/lows that drive addiction) is the same for all of us. They are not, and the difference in intensity in these feelings is huge between different people.

You can tell yourself you have better control, but the reality is you are not trying to control the same thing as the addict.
Correct.

And I bet when Rock responds, he will agree with you.

Poor interpretation, or maybe poor choice of words on his part. I saw his use of the term more as a "figure of speech". But I understand your seeking clarification as the semantics are quite important on this topic.
The Rock
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3/20/2016 10:55pm
This ^^^^^

The Shop

JW381
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3/21/2016 3:04pm
This side dialogue on willpower vs. the "autopilot" mode Jabroni referred to has really opened my eyes the past day or two. Its amazing how impulsively we act without really knowing it. There is a box of Oreos in the cupboard rigt now it's taking every ounce of effort to not go dig into them. Sort of a personal test, I guess.
disbanded
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3/21/2016 3:28pm
JW381 wrote:
This side dialogue on willpower vs. the "autopilot" mode Jabroni referred to has really opened my eyes the past day or two. Its amazing how impulsively...
This side dialogue on willpower vs. the "autopilot" mode Jabroni referred to has really opened my eyes the past day or two. Its amazing how impulsively we act without really knowing it. There is a box of Oreos in the cupboard rigt now it's taking every ounce of effort to not go dig into them. Sort of a personal test, I guess.
Do it
BobbyM
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3/21/2016 3:33pm
rcannon wrote:
Whats hard to explain is this. I've never talked to an addict who was not taking it for "the last time" or a drinker who was...
Whats hard to explain is this. I've never talked to an addict who was not taking it for "the last time" or a drinker who was not having "his last drink"

My brother died from an alcohol/pill interaction. A very small amount of each, really, but that night , it was enough.

His closet had 15 empty 1/2 pint bottles of whiskey, empty.

My friend said, "You'll have to excuse me for asking such an asshole question, but this is driving me nuts. Why did he have so many small bottles when its so much cheaper by the half gallon?"

Anyone who was an addict would understand each little bottle represented the LAST one.

You could hear that in Stroups interview when he was asked why he did not continue this year....

The logic registers, and we understand. Its just that the "last day, last drink, last pill" never quite happens.





Great post. What's harder to explain IMO is the functioning addict. The vast majority of those addicted to any substance (sugar, coke, heroine, pills, meth, etc)...
Great post.

What's harder to explain IMO is the functioning addict. The vast majority of those addicted to any substance (sugar, coke, heroine, pills, meth, etc) are all FUNCTIONING ADDICTS that dont fit the mold of the stereotypical drug user.

The meth heads we see on TV and walking the street have the missing teeth and fucked up skin. Those are the obvious cases. The steroid users that we see at the gym with the crazy acne and "roid rages" are again, another example of the obvious case. Another? Fat people arent the only people who eat unhealthy. In general (disclaimer: gross generalization in all of this) they eat just as poorly as the rest of America, and exercise just as little, their bodies just react differently.

What most dont realize is those cases, make up a much smaller portion of the actual number of addicts out there than anyone could even imagine. If every drug addict ended up in jail and on the streets, it wouldnt be a multi-billion dollar black market industry. It's the functioning addicts that make Budweiser billions, not the face down drunks that cant stay employed. McDonalds would never be in business if only 350lb people ate there.

For every Austin Stroupe that "didnt have the will power" or "couldnt handle his drugs" there are 7 or 8 raging coke or MDMA heads working in the pits for a major SX/MX team as staff or as riders. They function just fine from the outside looking in. Win races even. Nobody notices because the stereotype is not visible. We have to be honest about this if we really want to find out the causes and cures for addiction. If you are only going to analyze or even acknowledge the small % of addicts that have extreme reactions to a drug, youre NEVER going to get close to solving the riddle.

Why some end up in a downward spiral in life in reaction to drugs is a complex web of variables. But it's not a given. And it's far from in anyone's control. Ive been there, had my own brother crying in my arms... miserable at himself for his addictions. Wanting so badly to quit. There were times in my life when I ignorantly thought he was "weak" and all the other shallow descriptions some of y'all have used to describe addicts. Thru research and a willingness to learn Ive realized that despite his addictions, my brother might be the strongest person I know. Not because he continues to lose the battle to addiction, but that he continues to survive and get back up and try to fight it time and time again despite MANY failed attempts.

That's not me making excuses for him. It's me being honest that he and I are different. Different upbringing/experiences/traumas. And different genetics. IMO, a addict not only has to want to quit (like you said, they mostly all do) but they have to realize that want all they may, they must realize that it's also largely out of their control. Accepting that is how one accepts the help needed.

JW381 wrote:
Your posts have been great insight on this issue.
No doubt.. Rational and logical. But for every one of him there's 8 or 9 dumbfucks... Dumb as rocks.
Celine
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3/21/2016 4:02pm
Jabroni has the right perspective. Addiction is extremely complicated.

But maybe, also, some people just like it. They would not change even if they could.
The Rock
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3/21/2016 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2016 4:38pm
Absolutely "some" like it but the fact remains "some" realize it's killing them but they're driven to continue for a myriad of reasons. Ranging from being weak to some and being an addict to others to being a strong willed person but apparently still unable able to deal with a childhood trauma or other painful life event without the numbing that alcohol and drugs provide for them.

It is gut wrenching and a painful memory remembering being on the phone and hearing a friend drunk out of his mind keep repeating "I can't stop. I can't stop. I can't stop" over and over and over.

The topic of addiction is reaching two stroke debate status and I have noting more to add on either topic.
3/30/2016 5:11am
Scientist here: I don't mean to stir the pot but I do want to inject some facts into this discussion (which I think is important discussion to have). One way to study drinking, smoking and drug use is to allow inbred mice free access to these things. Inbred mice are used because they have been mated together so many times that they are identical genetically (think dog breeds but even more extreme). It's clear that certain strains of mice (with unique genetics) prefer alcohol/avoid alcohol, prefer meth/avoid meth, etc. Some strains of mice party and some are teetotalers.

I think it's important to keep this in mind when thinking about people struggling with addiction. I don't want to say they aren't in some ways responsible for falling into the hole they fall into. But it's clear that there are strong genetic contributions to how much risk we all take, how much we enjoy (or are poisoned and hate) a given drug/liquor/nicotine, etc. and in many cases we know which receptor (or part of the receptor) in someone's brain is responsible for it. (Receptor=small switch on the outside of brain cell which can "activate" that brain cell.)

I think this review will back that up for the interested, and I am happy to interpret any science-speak that make it indecipherable. We scientists use tons of jargon that even we struggle with. It's annoying.

kkawboy14
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3/30/2016 5:18am Edited Date/Time 3/30/2016 5:21am
I have a lot of pain......but heroin wouldn't ever be one of the solutions!

How does a person do heroin the first time?
Insider347
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3/30/2016 5:33am
I'm clean now but it took me 10 years of Suboxone and 6 weeks inpatient treatment. It's so easy to get trapped even when you know what you are doing is hurting yourself. I will battle this forever. I was up to 250 mgs of hydrocodone daily. Sure it's a choice but when you get trapped it's a bitch. Opiates are by far the toughest to stop. I've been told this by several addiction doctors. It takes a lot of commitment and support. I have at least 2-3 appointments a week with docs, along with groups to help me continue clean. In this sport it's easy just to take a pill and you're pain is gone. I ruined myself from enjoying racing and being competitive. I try to ride now but it's not the same. I can relate to anybody in the same position but you can stop. It's very very tough but you gotta want it. Best of luck.
Insider347
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3/30/2016 5:39am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have a lot of pain......but heroin wouldn't ever be one of the solutions!

How does a person do heroin the first time?
I should have included this above but I promised myself I would never do heroin and never have but when you get trapped it's harder and harder to get pills. Now it's the deep Web that is so easy but it's very expensive and heroin is very available and cheap so I can see how it happens.
hillbilly
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3/30/2016 5:54am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have a lot of pain......but heroin wouldn't ever be one of the solutions!

How does a person do heroin the first time?
Snort it, but be careful,its like brillcreme,a little dab will do ya.

I've had my times,but before marriage back in 91 92 ,I was livin like wild. I would think I've seen it all,probably not.

I've watched guys run a needle in their arm,hit the floor and flop like a fish. Seen their kids playing with broke off syringes.

How far a man can fall . I never stuck a needle in me,I knew that would be it cause there was not a limit.

Most of those people are dead,od to car wrecks to gunshots. The person that quits is a rare rare person.

I got together and racing again,the only thing that gives the same death defying rush.

AS has a long way to fall if he chose dope over that bike.

hillbilly
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3/30/2016 6:00am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have a lot of pain......but heroin wouldn't ever be one of the solutions!

How does a person do heroin the first time?
Insider347 wrote:
I should have included this above but I promised myself I would never do heroin and never have but when you get trapped it's harder and...
I should have included this above but I promised myself I would never do heroin and never have but when you get trapped it's harder and harder to get pills. Now it's the deep Web that is so easy but it's very expensive and heroin is very available and cheap so I can see how it happens.
There is a show "drugs inc." And one was on heroin in philly I think. The guy cutting it was using a food processor and throwing in gobs of benadril,capsule and all. Later in the show a guy shoots up and knows its going wrong,takes off in an explorer toward the hospital and hits a lightpole a block away.

Its a hell of a show,the drug world today is far different than when i was off the rails.
Camp332
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3/30/2016 6:14am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have a lot of pain......but heroin wouldn't ever be one of the solutions!

How does a person do heroin the first time?
When the pill connections are dry, withdrawals are setting in hardcore, go to the hood risking it all for a bundle, dump it out on a plate, and snort it.
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3/30/2016 7:19am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have a lot of pain......but heroin wouldn't ever be one of the solutions!

How does a person do heroin the first time?
Camp332 wrote:
When the pill connections are dry, withdrawals are setting in hardcore, go to the hood risking it all for a bundle, dump it out on a...
When the pill connections are dry, withdrawals are setting in hardcore, go to the hood risking it all for a bundle, dump it out on a plate, and snort it.
I think it varies from person to person, but most people who have become addicted to pain pills are running in the same circles as those using heroin. They may have it offered to them frequently by the same people who they get their pills from, along with the assurance that the heroin is cheaper and more effective. Heroin has made it's way out of the hood, and many users and dealers live in better neighborhoods these days. Your succinct post is very accurate, none the less, in my estimation, with the exception of the risk (in most cases). In my area, heroin is present at methadone clinics, suboxone clinics, NA and AA meetings, etc...
Camp332
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3/30/2016 7:34am Edited Date/Time 3/30/2016 7:35am
I think it varies from person to person, but most people who have become addicted to pain pills are running in the same circles as those...
I think it varies from person to person, but most people who have become addicted to pain pills are running in the same circles as those using heroin. They may have it offered to them frequently by the same people who they get their pills from, along with the assurance that the heroin is cheaper and more effective. Heroin has made it's way out of the hood, and many users and dealers live in better neighborhoods these days. Your succinct post is very accurate, none the less, in my estimation, with the exception of the risk (in most cases). In my area, heroin is present at methadone clinics, suboxone clinics, NA and AA meetings, etc...
Everyone's story is different. With a similar ending.
Insider347
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3/30/2016 8:01am
A lot of the heroin use now is white kids from middle to upper class families. It's all over the schools now. New Hampshire has a huge problem today. Now they slide some fentynal in with heroin and it's so easy to od. Sad state today.
It ends up costing you a lot. I have spent $30k on treatment and probably 10K on on drugs and legal problems.
3/30/2016 9:14am
Any word on how Stroupe is doing? You would think since this is his second offence he might be seeing some serious jail time but maybe not. Might be the best thing for him.
colintrax
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3/30/2016 9:35am
Any word on how Stroupe is doing? You would think since this is his second offence he might be seeing some serious jail time but maybe...
Any word on how Stroupe is doing? You would think since this is his second offence he might be seeing some serious jail time but maybe not. Might be the best thing for him.
He went to chic fil a the other day lol
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3/30/2016 9:45am
Insider347 wrote:
A lot of the heroin use now is white kids from middle to upper class families. It's all over the schools now. New Hampshire has a...
A lot of the heroin use now is white kids from middle to upper class families. It's all over the schools now. New Hampshire has a huge problem today. Now they slide some fentynal in with heroin and it's so easy to od. Sad state today.
It ends up costing you a lot. I have spent $30k on treatment and probably 10K on on drugs and legal problems.
We don't have problems with middle to upper middle class in my area. Pretty much have problems with the same ol' drug addicts. We do get rare cases of "normal" people with jobs and "normal" lives buying and using heroin. But typically it's your average drug user who has been using any form of controlled substance they could get their hands on since they were teenagers.
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3/30/2016 9:57am
Insider347 wrote:
A lot of the heroin use now is white kids from middle to upper class families. It's all over the schools now. New Hampshire has a...
A lot of the heroin use now is white kids from middle to upper class families. It's all over the schools now. New Hampshire has a huge problem today. Now they slide some fentynal in with heroin and it's so easy to od. Sad state today.
It ends up costing you a lot. I have spent $30k on treatment and probably 10K on on drugs and legal problems.
agn5009 wrote:
We don't have problems with middle to upper middle class in my area. Pretty much have problems with the same ol' drug addicts. We do get...
We don't have problems with middle to upper middle class in my area. Pretty much have problems with the same ol' drug addicts. We do get rare cases of "normal" people with jobs and "normal" lives buying and using heroin. But typically it's your average drug user who has been using any form of controlled substance they could get their hands on since they were teenagers.
Yes you do you are just choosing not to see it......"Normal" people all over are caught up in this.

http://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/advocacy/opioid-addiction-disea…

"Four in five new heroin users started out misusing prescription painkillers. As a consequence, the rate of heroin overdose deaths nearly quadrupled from 2000 to 2013.

94% of respondents in a 2014 survey of people in treatment for opioid addiction said they chose to use heroin because prescription opioids were “far more expensive and harder to obtain.”

People often share their unused pain relievers, unaware of the dangers of nonmedical opioid use. Most adolescents who misuse prescription pain relievers are given them for free by a friend or relative. The prescribing rates for prescription opioids among adolescents and young adults nearly doubled from 1994 to 2007.
3/30/2016 10:14am
Question.

If an addict or a Drunk woke up on Gilligans island alone and naked with nobody else on the island would he try to make heroin out of grass and twigs and make a needle out of a hollow twig, and shoot some mulch, or would he not even think about it other than what to find to eat and drink?

Or does he inject coconut water with the hollow twig instead of drinking it?
Does he start each plant on fire by rubbing twigs and smoke every plant looking for something to get high off?

IMO.....addiction is more of an access issue than a real addiction issue.




The Rock
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3/30/2016 11:49am
Scientist here: I don't mean to stir the pot but I do want to inject some facts into this discussion (which I think is important discussion...
Scientist here: I don't mean to stir the pot but I do want to inject some facts into this discussion (which I think is important discussion to have). One way to study drinking, smoking and drug use is to allow inbred mice free access to these things. Inbred mice are used because they have been mated together so many times that they are identical genetically (think dog breeds but even more extreme). It's clear that certain strains of mice (with unique genetics) prefer alcohol/avoid alcohol, prefer meth/avoid meth, etc. Some strains of mice party and some are teetotalers.

I think it's important to keep this in mind when thinking about people struggling with addiction. I don't want to say they aren't in some ways responsible for falling into the hole they fall into. But it's clear that there are strong genetic contributions to how much risk we all take, how much we enjoy (or are poisoned and hate) a given drug/liquor/nicotine, etc. and in many cases we know which receptor (or part of the receptor) in someone's brain is responsible for it. (Receptor=small switch on the outside of brain cell which can "activate" that brain cell.)

I think this review will back that up for the interested, and I am happy to interpret any science-speak that make it indecipherable. We scientists use tons of jargon that even we struggle with. It's annoying.

Sorry but our anecdotal evidence/personal experiences trump your scientific data. Accordingly unless those mice you speak of start posting I will hold the thought addicts are just weak people. They could get better just don't want to.

(Insert sarcasm emoticon for entire post)
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3/30/2016 12:02pm
Question. If an addict or a Drunk woke up on Gilligans island alone and naked with nobody else on the island would he try to make...
Question.

If an addict or a Drunk woke up on Gilligans island alone and naked with nobody else on the island would he try to make heroin out of grass and twigs and make a needle out of a hollow twig, and shoot some mulch, or would he not even think about it other than what to find to eat and drink?

Or does he inject coconut water with the hollow twig instead of drinking it?
Does he start each plant on fire by rubbing twigs and smoke every plant looking for something to get high off?

IMO.....addiction is more of an access issue than a real addiction issue.




The Heroin addict would be in deep trouble, physically speaking. Opium and its related products make the human body physically dependent.
Pot, alcohol, meth, etc. are mostly just mentally addictive and won't cause an actual physical reaction from withdrawal. Heroin addicts can actually die from withdrawal from what I understand.
3/30/2016 12:10pm
Falcon wrote:
The Heroin addict would be in deep trouble, physically speaking. Opium and its related products make the human body physically dependent. Pot, alcohol, meth, etc. are...
The Heroin addict would be in deep trouble, physically speaking. Opium and its related products make the human body physically dependent.
Pot, alcohol, meth, etc. are mostly just mentally addictive and won't cause an actual physical reaction from withdrawal. Heroin addicts can actually die from withdrawal from what I understand.
Don't spread that false info man. Opiate wd can't kill you even with a bad habit. You may feel like you want to die but are in no real danger. Alcohol and benzo/barbituate wd will kill you. Anything that activates gaba receptors will kill you.
KennyT
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3/30/2016 12:33pm
Falcon wrote:
The Heroin addict would be in deep trouble, physically speaking. Opium and its related products make the human body physically dependent. Pot, alcohol, meth, etc. are...
The Heroin addict would be in deep trouble, physically speaking. Opium and its related products make the human body physically dependent.
Pot, alcohol, meth, etc. are mostly just mentally addictive and won't cause an actual physical reaction from withdrawal. Heroin addicts can actually die from withdrawal from what I understand.
Don't spread that false info man. Opiate wd can't kill you even with a bad habit. You may feel like you want to die but are...
Don't spread that false info man. Opiate wd can't kill you even with a bad habit. You may feel like you want to die but are in no real danger. Alcohol and benzo/barbituate wd will kill you. Anything that activates gaba receptors will kill you.
Tell that to my friends family after he died in the hospital from heroin withdrawal. if you can die while in a hospital bed I am sure there are many more who died from withdrawals trying to do it on their own

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