Full Tilt CR250 Build - MXA Two Stroke Hall of Fame

blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 1:12pm
3/16/2016 1:12pm
MXandSXracer21 wrote:
Bummer on the damage! If you need a front number plate I have a brand new cycra one for a 2015 crf450. I have a cycra...
Bummer on the damage! If you need a front number plate I have a brand new cycra one for a 2015 crf450. I have a cycra vented front fender too for same bike, brand new. If Interested let me know.

With that being said...how were the transmission and motor mods??
The trans works perfectly, you cant even tell anything was changed when on the track. The engine is amazing, really linear with tons of over-rev. Bullet fast.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 1:16pm
3/16/2016 1:16pm
xr70 wrote:
Super nice build,man . I like it .Bike sounds great. Recently I finished my build also. 02 frame with 01 engine and 48mm Showa fork with...
Super nice build,man . I like it .Bike sounds great. Recently I finished my build also. 02 frame with 01 engine and 48mm Showa fork with late Showa shock. I won't go in to the details but come out great after lots of work and testing. Project are fun . Here is some pics and two short videos .







Why the 01' engine?
dbrunski125 3/16/2016 1:23pm
3/16/2016 1:23pm
dbrunski125 wrote:
How's the suspension? In particular the rear shock. How does it react with the ti spring?
blackdiamond wrote:
It works really well, we tested with 4 different riders and everybody thought the settings were killer except the lightest rider and he was 50 lbs...
It works really well, we tested with 4 different riders and everybody thought the settings were killer except the lightest rider and he was 50 lbs under the target weight for the valving and spring rate.
That's awesome. I'm curious. And this is not to knock the build. Best thread I've seen on here. More of a compliment to the engineers at ktm. How does this motor compare to the ktm 250sx? I know that the ktm motor can just break 50 hp with a pipe and silencer on 91 pump gas.

The Shop

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blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 1:35pm
3/16/2016 1:35pm
dbrunski125 wrote:
That's awesome. I'm curious. And this is not to knock the build. Best thread I've seen on here. More of a compliment to the engineers at...
That's awesome. I'm curious. And this is not to knock the build. Best thread I've seen on here. More of a compliment to the engineers at ktm. How does this motor compare to the ktm 250sx? I know that the ktm motor can just break 50 hp with a pipe and silencer on 91 pump gas.
I had a Varner built KTM engine a few years ago and this Varner built CR250 is undoubtedly stronger and we haven't even put it on the dyno to fine-tune the ignition and PV maps yet.
RMRider1
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RMRider1 3/16/2016 3:02pm
3/16/2016 3:02pm
Sounds amazing....jetting sounds dialed! Nice work! Keeping the PWK I assume!
JW381
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JW381 3/16/2016 3:08pm
3/16/2016 3:08pm
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white.

So what's the final specs looking like, a recap basically? Engine, transmission, suspension, etc.

Do you find that since the PV is controlled by throttle position that it engine breaks more than other 2 strokes? Its been a long time sine I've ridden the YZ250 I used to own, but I feel like the CR is so much better for me because it's harder to get whiskey throttle on. When I chop the throttle, the bike is ready to start slowing down, rather than running away like a freight train.
xr70
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xr70 3/16/2016 3:09pm
3/16/2016 3:09pm
The shock is pretty much perfect fit , I just little modified the upper tube of the subframe.
xr70
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xr70 3/16/2016 3:14pm
3/16/2016 3:14pm
xr70 wrote:
Super nice build,man . I like it .Bike sounds great. Recently I finished my build also. 02 frame with 01 engine and 48mm Showa fork with...
Super nice build,man . I like it .Bike sounds great. Recently I finished my build also. 02 frame with 01 engine and 48mm Showa fork with late Showa shock. I won't go in to the details but come out great after lots of work and testing. Project are fun . Here is some pics and two short videos .







blackdiamond wrote:
Why the 01' engine?
Honestly I prefer the older Honda engine with the mechanical power valve, I think that was the best engine what Honda ever produced.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 3/16/2016 3:17pm
3/16/2016 3:17pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I had a Varner built KTM engine a few years ago and this Varner built CR250 is undoubtedly stronger and we haven't even put it on...
I had a Varner built KTM engine a few years ago and this Varner built CR250 is undoubtedly stronger and we haven't even put it on the dyno to fine-tune the ignition and PV maps yet.
is the vortex handling the PV maps as well?
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 3:36pm
3/16/2016 3:36pm
RMRider1 wrote:
Sounds amazing....jetting sounds dialed! Nice work! Keeping the PWK I assume!
Without a doubt
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 3:44pm
3/16/2016 3:44pm
JW381 wrote:
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white. So...
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white.

So what's the final specs looking like, a recap basically? Engine, transmission, suspension, etc.

Do you find that since the PV is controlled by throttle position that it engine breaks more than other 2 strokes? Its been a long time sine I've ridden the YZ250 I used to own, but I feel like the CR is so much better for me because it's harder to get whiskey throttle on. When I chop the throttle, the bike is ready to start slowing down, rather than running away like a freight train.
What do you mean final spec?

I don't think the power jet has any affect on deceleration?
JW381
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JW381 3/16/2016 3:50pm
3/16/2016 3:50pm
JW381 wrote:
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white. So...
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white.

So what's the final specs looking like, a recap basically? Engine, transmission, suspension, etc.

Do you find that since the PV is controlled by throttle position that it engine breaks more than other 2 strokes? Its been a long time sine I've ridden the YZ250 I used to own, but I feel like the CR is so much better for me because it's harder to get whiskey throttle on. When I chop the throttle, the bike is ready to start slowing down, rather than running away like a freight train.
blackdiamond wrote:
What do you mean final spec?

I don't think the power jet has any affect on deceleration?
I just wanted a little recap, I can't remember all the mods from 23 pages.

I meant the power valve, since it snaps closed when you shut the Gas off, just something I've noticed on mine, I don't get whiskey the way I did on my YZ.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 3:55pm
3/16/2016 3:55pm
xr70 wrote:
Honestly I prefer the older Honda engine with the mechanical power valve, I think that was the best engine what Honda ever produced.
I know some people feel that way but I have no idea why? That motor makes 3-5 HP less in most cases and is much harder to get hooked up on anything less than chocolate cake loam. Just my opinion of course.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 3:56pm
3/16/2016 3:56pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
is the vortex handling the PV maps as well?
It's not a Vortex Ignition.
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 3/16/2016 3:58pm
3/16/2016 3:58pm
JW381 wrote:
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white. So...
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white.

So what's the final specs looking like, a recap basically? Engine, transmission, suspension, etc.

Do you find that since the PV is controlled by throttle position that it engine breaks more than other 2 strokes? Its been a long time sine I've ridden the YZ250 I used to own, but I feel like the CR is so much better for me because it's harder to get whiskey throttle on. When I chop the throttle, the bike is ready to start slowing down, rather than running away like a freight train.
Is that because you are used to the four strokes?

I don't get that feeling on the YZ's, but I've been riding YZ250 for the past 9 years and I don't like a lot of engine brake feeling.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 3/16/2016 3:59pm
3/16/2016 3:59pm
What ya using instead? Only a handful of programmable ones out there, JD, Vortex, GET
JW381
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JW381 3/16/2016 4:00pm
3/16/2016 4:00pm
JW381 wrote:
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white. So...
Awesome. Fantastic. I love the clean red look.I'm actually about ready to strip mine of graphics and just go all red or red and white.

So what's the final specs looking like, a recap basically? Engine, transmission, suspension, etc.

Do you find that since the PV is controlled by throttle position that it engine breaks more than other 2 strokes? Its been a long time sine I've ridden the YZ250 I used to own, but I feel like the CR is so much better for me because it's harder to get whiskey throttle on. When I chop the throttle, the bike is ready to start slowing down, rather than running away like a freight train.
cwtoyota wrote:
Is that because you are used to the four strokes? I don't get that feeling on the YZ's, but I've been riding YZ250 for the past...
Is that because you are used to the four strokes?

I don't get that feeling on the YZ's, but I've been riding YZ250 for the past 9 years and I don't like a lot of engine brake feeling.
I've been 2 stroke only since late 2009. Hardly remember how to ride a thumper. I guess what I'm getting at is a "feel" thst isn't translating to type very well, so nevermind bros.

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blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 4:28pm
3/16/2016 4:28pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
What ya using instead? Only a handful of programmable ones out there, JD, Vortex, GET
Zeeltronic
1
GG83
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GG83 3/16/2016 4:52pm
3/16/2016 4:52pm
Nice sound for sure !!! But what about the handling ???
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 5:02pm
3/16/2016 5:02pm
GG83 wrote:
Nice sound for sure !!! But what about the handling ???
The Gen 3 CR250's handled awesome bone stock so needless to say it's pretty amazing.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 3/16/2016 5:17pm
3/16/2016 5:17pm
blackdiamond wrote:
Zeeltronic
Very cool. Its between that one and the JD for mine. JD seems to have some pretty poor communication issues due to them being in Italy. I've briefly talked to the guy at Zeel a few times and he seems to be a nice guy.
Any programming issues or delays in communication with it?
RMRider1
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RMRider1 3/16/2016 5:39pm
3/16/2016 5:39pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 5:42pm
GG83 wrote:
Nice sound for sure !!! But what about the handling ???
blackdiamond wrote:
The Gen 3 CR250's handled awesome bone stock so needless to say it's pretty amazing.
No doubt about the Gen 3 CR's... My '06 is point and shoot... Absolutely amazing handling...that's coming from an RM guy nonetheless... Very close to a mountain bike! Literally!
xr70
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xr70 3/16/2016 5:40pm
3/16/2016 5:40pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 5:42pm
xr70 wrote:
Honestly I prefer the older Honda engine with the mechanical power valve, I think that was the best engine what Honda ever produced.
blackdiamond wrote:
I know some people feel that way but I have no idea why? That motor makes 3-5 HP less in most cases and is much harder...
I know some people feel that way but I have no idea why? That motor makes 3-5 HP less in most cases and is much harder to get hooked up on anything less than chocolate cake loam. Just my opinion of course.
I don't know but own them pretty much all 1997 , 99 , 2001 and then I bought the 2005 and I was so disappointed with that motor , i so sold it and purchase for the first time 05 YZ250 . To me just the old motor had so much low end and broader power band and was more fun on the track , not so linear like the reed case motor . To me the reed case motor fell like 125 with lot of midrange . But again we talking stock motors , yours is mod , different story I am sure. Plus the build was more fun like that, not just ordinary CR250 .
JW381
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JW381 3/16/2016 5:48pm
3/16/2016 5:48pm
RMRider1 wrote:
No doubt about the Gen 3 CR's... My '06 is point and shoot... Absolutely amazing handling...that's coming from an RM guy nonetheless... Very close to a...
No doubt about the Gen 3 CR's... My '06 is point and shoot... Absolutely amazing handling...that's coming from an RM guy nonetheless... Very close to a mountain bike! Literally!
Its funny you say that, I rode mountain bikes a lot before I switched over to motors. My 04 CR reminds me so much of the way I used to ride my MTB.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 8:38pm
3/16/2016 8:38pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
Very cool. Its between that one and the JD for mine. JD seems to have some pretty poor communication issues due to them being in Italy...
Very cool. Its between that one and the JD for mine. JD seems to have some pretty poor communication issues due to them being in Italy. I've briefly talked to the guy at Zeel a few times and he seems to be a nice guy.
Any programming issues or delays in communication with it?
I did all of my own programming on the ignition curves from scratch and used some of the baseline PV curves from the manufacturer as a starting point. With that said, I'm sure we will make some adjustments to that as well once we get it on the dyno.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 8:59pm
3/16/2016 8:59pm
xr70 wrote:
I don't know but own them pretty much all 1997 , 99 , 2001 and then I bought the 2005 and I was so disappointed with...
I don't know but own them pretty much all 1997 , 99 , 2001 and then I bought the 2005 and I was so disappointed with that motor , i so sold it and purchase for the first time 05 YZ250 . To me just the old motor had so much low end and broader power band and was more fun on the track , not so linear like the reed case motor . To me the reed case motor fell like 125 with lot of midrange . But again we talking stock motors , yours is mod , different story I am sure. Plus the build was more fun like that, not just ordinary CR250 .
Yea, bone stock the 05-07 needs a little help. A simple $75 head mod drastically changes the engine character and cleans up most of the jetting issues as a bonus.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 3/16/2016 10:14pm
3/16/2016 10:14pm
blackdiamond wrote:
I did all of my own programming on the ignition curves from scratch and used some of the baseline PV curves from the manufacturer as a...
I did all of my own programming on the ignition curves from scratch and used some of the baseline PV curves from the manufacturer as a starting point. With that said, I'm sure we will make some adjustments to that as well once we get it on the dyno.
can the zeel handle PV mapping duty as well or is that a different unit you're using. if so, is it able to have a bar mount hotswap map?
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 3/16/2016 11:34pm
3/16/2016 11:34pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
can the zeel handle PV mapping duty as well or is that a different unit you're using. if so, is it able to have a bar...
can the zeel handle PV mapping duty as well or is that a different unit you're using. if so, is it able to have a bar mount hotswap map?
Yes, and the powerjet can be mapped as well on the TPS short body Keihin. Both the PV and the ignition curve can be set up with a handlebar mounted switch.
theinternetkid 3/17/2016 12:25am
3/17/2016 12:25am
blackdiamond wrote:
Yea, bone stock the 05-07 needs a little help. A simple $75 head mod drastically changes the engine character and cleans up most of the jetting...
Yea, bone stock the 05-07 needs a little help. A simple $75 head mod drastically changes the engine character and cleans up most of the jetting issues as a bonus.
Good call there. I had the base of the cylinder decked and installed an 01 YZ250 carb on my 06. That made such a huge difference.

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