You don't race so you don't know..

seth505
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3/1/2016 11:58am
GrapeApe wrote:
Testing . . .
...
SweetDaddy
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3/1/2016 11:58am
#Free FreshTopEnd - too soon?
BSmooth13
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3/1/2016 12:04pm
Interesting....let me pose a question here:

If a person "A" has a high level degree and training -- M.S. or Ph.D -- in Kinesiology or Sport Psychology, for instance, does their opinion about a riders physical training/abilities or mental strengths/weaknesses carry less weight than person "B" who has/does race?
3/1/2016 12:14pm
BSmooth13 wrote:
Interesting....let me pose a question here: If a person "A" has a high level degree and training -- M.S. or Ph.D -- in Kinesiology or Sport...
Interesting....let me pose a question here:

If a person "A" has a high level degree and training -- M.S. or Ph.D -- in Kinesiology or Sport Psychology, for instance, does their opinion about a riders physical training/abilities or mental strengths/weaknesses carry less weight than person "B" who has/does race?
I don't have an answer for that but I do know several people who are educated far beyond their intelligence level.Cool

The Shop

huck
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3/1/2016 12:18pm
SweetDaddy wrote:
#Free FreshTopEnd - too soon?
Why would FTE not be free?
IWreckALot
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3/1/2016 1:02pm
SweetDaddy wrote:
#Free FreshTopEnd - too soon?
huck wrote:
Why would FTE not be free?
Initially when I read it, I thought he was talking about giving FTE the boot too but I think GuyB was more relating to his opinion that the assholes have gotten out of hand. I think Steve was just letting him know he's working on it. Could be wrong.
3/1/2016 1:20pm
Not just racing, but a young crazy kid racing. Old farts like myself race... carefully
FreshTopEnd
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3/1/2016 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2016 1:36pm
I didn't mean that to advocate dinging anyone generally or in particular. I'm probably just being a grumpy old man, but the solution to that probably is to stay away from what makes me grumpy. I can look back at a couple of seasons here in which I am not really that keen on the attitude I see in myself regardless if I am "correct" or in tune with the trolling nature of this place.

And to be clear, that has nothing to do with motogrady. This is the type of thread that is going to end with driving their tent pegs deeper. I've written what I think and thought it through pretty well before I wrote it. At some point the back and forth is pointless.
FreshTopEnd
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3/1/2016 1:39pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2016 1:40pm
IWreckALot wrote:
Initially when I read it, I thought he was talking about giving FTE the boot too but I think GuyB was more relating to his opinion...
Initially when I read it, I thought he was talking about giving FTE the boot too but I think GuyB was more relating to his opinion that the assholes have gotten out of hand. I think Steve was just letting him know he's working on it. Could be wrong.
I've tried to make a lot of deposits over the years so I don't bounce checks if I lapse and go full jerk mode.
philG
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3/1/2016 1:46pm
There is a saying that goes ' Better a racer for a day , than a spectator for life' ..

While that may seem harsh , i have the utmost respect for those that support the sport from a place on the sidelines, but it puts into perspective not just the difference between riders and non riders, but riders and racers..

I cant just go ride any more, it bores me, i cant make the judgement calls that i need to make to ride well , well it doesnt matter. However small the race is , doesnt matter, the fact that you are going bar to bar with another guy to win a $2 peice of plastic, makes you do stuff you dont do when you are just turning laps.

So unless you have tried to pass someone hard on the brakes , and had the gap just shut, and know what that feels like , and the pain , and the other guy punching you in the head after you both go down , you cant get it.

In the same way i can never get what fascinates people about guns, those that get giddy over them get it , but those that get it and dont actually have to shoot in anger , can have no idea what it is like to be in a shoot or be shot deal .. and this is the same kinda thing.

Unless you have been there you cant possibly know.

And before people say i look down on people who dont race , quite the opposite , riders, racers, watchers , we all love the sport in the way we choose, and thats what matters
TeamGreen
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3/1/2016 1:53pm
Not just racing, but a young crazy kid racing. Old farts like myself race... carefully
"Methodically"
hillbilly
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Afton, TN US
3/1/2016 1:59pm
You don't have to be stupid to know what stupid is.

My vital IQ actually went up today.
Prntscrn
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3/1/2016 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2016 2:09pm
What I think people who doesn't race might have a hardtime understanding is how you have to think. How you set yourself up for the next section the corner, or even corners before the actual section.

Look at the JS/MM incident for example. When I saw them both in the woops I still can't figure out why the fuck JS didn't hug the inside in the turn. I was sure he was going to do it and Marvin probably thought so too. That would have been to keep his lapper line not to get out in middle of the track again.
Jspazz
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3/1/2016 2:07pm
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw...
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw out the "do you even race?" or "You can tell who's never thrown their leg over a bike" comments when somebody throws out there opinion. While some of people's posts on here seem to be from another planet, others seem to be pretty legit regardless if the person rides, races or just drinks beer on the couch on Saturdays (like myself). As a person who no longer rides, and honestly never raced when I did ride due to a variety of reasons, why do us "non-racers" opinions/insight not matter? I don't think Jeanie Carmichael, Colleen Milsaps or Aldon baker can throw their leg over a bike and lay down laps faster than the riders that they coach, but they have rider wins under their belts. I don't think Mike Mcarthy or Gary Kubiak can play better football than their players but they know how to coach their players to win. So tell me, why do the hardcore moto posters on here feel like you need to ride or race to know what you're talking about when it comes to opinions and insight on riders?
I think the OP opinion and especially FTE's posts are the word.

Given the 2016 level of racing and the stacked field in all 3 pro championships, that would leave Jeff Alessi or the odd anonymous-account current SX pro as the only experts allowed to comment on the Atlanta race, think about that.

And cheers to Jeff for his new ride, wish more 2016 pros would post on vital beyond the AMA sessions, which were cool.

From what I understand, current pro MX/SX racer's opinions are not shared, rather some just like trolling all of us along anonymously and laughing amongst themselves.
3/1/2016 2:19pm
philG wrote:
There is a saying that goes ' Better a racer for a day , than a spectator for life' .. While that may seem harsh...
There is a saying that goes ' Better a racer for a day , than a spectator for life' ..

While that may seem harsh , i have the utmost respect for those that support the sport from a place on the sidelines, but it puts into perspective not just the difference between riders and non riders, but riders and racers..

I cant just go ride any more, it bores me, i cant make the judgement calls that i need to make to ride well , well it doesnt matter. However small the race is , doesnt matter, the fact that you are going bar to bar with another guy to win a $2 peice of plastic, makes you do stuff you dont do when you are just turning laps.

So unless you have tried to pass someone hard on the brakes , and had the gap just shut, and know what that feels like , and the pain , and the other guy punching you in the head after you both go down , you cant get it.

In the same way i can never get what fascinates people about guns, those that get giddy over them get it , but those that get it and dont actually have to shoot in anger , can have no idea what it is like to be in a shoot or be shot deal .. and this is the same kinda thing.

Unless you have been there you cant possibly know.

And before people say i look down on people who dont race , quite the opposite , riders, racers, watchers , we all love the sport in the way we choose, and thats what matters
I didnt know i had a twin brother across the pond, well said. Cool
philG
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3/1/2016 2:30pm
philG wrote:
There is a saying that goes ' Better a racer for a day , than a spectator for life' .. While that may seem harsh...
There is a saying that goes ' Better a racer for a day , than a spectator for life' ..

While that may seem harsh , i have the utmost respect for those that support the sport from a place on the sidelines, but it puts into perspective not just the difference between riders and non riders, but riders and racers..

I cant just go ride any more, it bores me, i cant make the judgement calls that i need to make to ride well , well it doesnt matter. However small the race is , doesnt matter, the fact that you are going bar to bar with another guy to win a $2 peice of plastic, makes you do stuff you dont do when you are just turning laps.

So unless you have tried to pass someone hard on the brakes , and had the gap just shut, and know what that feels like , and the pain , and the other guy punching you in the head after you both go down , you cant get it.

In the same way i can never get what fascinates people about guns, those that get giddy over them get it , but those that get it and dont actually have to shoot in anger , can have no idea what it is like to be in a shoot or be shot deal .. and this is the same kinda thing.

Unless you have been there you cant possibly know.

And before people say i look down on people who dont race , quite the opposite , riders, racers, watchers , we all love the sport in the way we choose, and thats what matters
lostboy819 wrote:
I didnt know i had a twin brother across the pond, well said. Cool
you must be a damn good looking guy , and fast with it too...Tongue
Spartacus
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3/1/2016 2:52pm
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw...
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw out the "do you even race?" or "You can tell who's never thrown their leg over a bike" comments when somebody throws out there opinion. While some of people's posts on here seem to be from another planet, others seem to be pretty legit regardless if the person rides, races or just drinks beer on the couch on Saturdays (like myself). As a person who no longer rides, and honestly never raced when I did ride due to a variety of reasons, why do us "non-racers" opinions/insight not matter? I don't think Jeanie Carmichael, Colleen Milsaps or Aldon baker can throw their leg over a bike and lay down laps faster than the riders that they coach, but they have rider wins under their belts. I don't think Mike Mcarthy or Gary Kubiak can play better football than their players but they know how to coach their players to win. So tell me, why do the hardcore moto posters on here feel like you need to ride or race to know what you're talking about when it comes to opinions and insight on riders?
Insecurity and the desire for superiority. ......
Brapp
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3/1/2016 2:55pm
I get lapped every weekend-
Big Lenny
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Compton, CA US
3/1/2016 3:16pm
early wrote:
Bro, does your girlfriend even race?
I'd throw her on a bike but she'd probably whiskey throttle. Reason why I'm really pushing the fact for her to get on the 110. But...
I'd throw her on a bike but she'd probably whiskey throttle. Reason why I'm really pushing the fact for her to get on the 110.

But my girlfriend who is a casual fan said that Stewart did nothing wrong last weekend while she was cooking in the kitchen.
I called my wife from the other room, who was knitting me some socks, even said he did nothing wrong...
Big Lenny
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3/1/2016 3:36pm
Butterywaffles you make some good points, these Cats that race act like it's some kind of Jedi mind trick.."Hold your line Brother"...
Rupert X
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3/1/2016 3:56pm
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw...
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw out the "do you even race?" or "You can tell who's never thrown their leg over a bike" comments when somebody throws out there opinion. While some of people's posts on here seem to be from another planet, others seem to be pretty legit regardless if the person rides, races or just drinks beer on the couch on Saturdays (like myself). As a person who no longer rides, and honestly never raced when I did ride due to a variety of reasons, why do us "non-racers" opinions/insight not matter? I don't think Jeanie Carmichael, Colleen Milsaps or Aldon baker can throw their leg over a bike and lay down laps faster than the riders that they coach, but they have rider wins under their belts. I don't think Mike Mcarthy or Gary Kubiak can play better football than their players but they know how to coach their players to win. So tell me, why do the hardcore moto posters on here feel like you need to ride or race to know what you're talking about when it comes to opinions and insight on riders?
You make some good points. For the record, Colleen and daughter Brianna Millsaps both raced Lorettas, just wanted to throw that 13mm T handle into the toolbox.

bh84
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Peterborough , ON CA
3/1/2016 4:04pm
Its not like its some convoluted way of thinking thats impossible to understand. But there is a certain thought process that makes you think hurtling yourself along with a 250lb machine 30 feet in the air just to beat another guy for a trophy is a good idea. To the average person we all look insane, but to us its just part of it.

There's also the appreciation bit, I don't, nor have I ever claimed to be on these guys' level. If I was, I'd be out there and you'd be talking about what a goon I am. But having lined up on a gate and spent 20 minutes manhandling a machine twice the size of me within inches of other riders, I understand how difficult and taxing it is to go the speed I do, and how easily a mistake can be made. At the level these guys are at, its a razor edge, One mistake and you're taking a nap in the dirt.

It was funny the episode of Ridiculousness that just aired with RV, they showed the GoPro from his MEC crash.

Rob "what happened here?"

RV "My foot slipped off the peg"

Rob "did you hit that guy?"

Ryan "I don't know, I was asleep."

If all it takes to KO yourself is your foot slipping, imagine how small a mistake it takes to accidentally hit someone. You can imagine it all you want, but until you experience it, its really hard to judge.

I'm not hating on people who don't race. TBH they're more than likely the smarter ones, Just saying, if you haven't lined up, its hard to appreciate just how difficult it really is.

KennyT
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Fantasy
3/1/2016 4:13pm
The average IQ of MXers is in close proximity to that of a donkey....one that's been kicked in the head more than once. I would say if you never raced then your opinion should be highly regarded
GIwasB4
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3/1/2016 4:18pm
hillbilly wrote:
To get a rise out of a member and get said member to waste time typing out a super long paragraph of big words most of...
To get a rise out of a member and get said member to waste time typing out a super long paragraph of big words most of us cant read anyways.
I feel the same way about 95% of your posts, but when I finally crack the hillbilly code, you post some pretty informative shit. Beer for...
I feel the same way about 95% of your posts, but when I finally crack the hillbilly code, you post some pretty informative shit. Beer for you.
hillbilly wrote:
I guess most that have been on since freshdirt got use to me.

16 yrs ,damn,

Swig of shine back at ya.
freshdirt...............that brings unwarranted floods of many good and bad memories
GIwasB4
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3/1/2016 4:19pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Butterywaffles you make some good points, these Cats that race act like it's some kind of Jedi mind trick.."Hold your line Brother"...
Hold your line brother until next year
3/1/2016 4:24pm
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw...
It seems like every time there is an incident during the races on the weekends or with a racer, there is always some posters who throw out the "do you even race?" or "You can tell who's never thrown their leg over a bike" comments when somebody throws out there opinion. While some of people's posts on here seem to be from another planet, others seem to be pretty legit regardless if the person rides, races or just drinks beer on the couch on Saturdays (like myself). As a person who no longer rides, and honestly never raced when I did ride due to a variety of reasons, why do us "non-racers" opinions/insight not matter? I don't think Jeanie Carmichael, Colleen Milsaps or Aldon baker can throw their leg over a bike and lay down laps faster than the riders that they coach, but they have rider wins under their belts. I don't think Mike Mcarthy or Gary Kubiak can play better football than their players but they know how to coach their players to win. So tell me, why do the hardcore moto posters on here feel like you need to ride or race to know what you're talking about when it comes to opinions and insight on riders?
When your insight and/or opinion of something race related doesn't really grasp what took place is it so far fetched to think it is because you've never been in that situation? I'm sure most of us have said at some point "hey I've never been through that, I don't really know what that guy is going through, I can only imagine." Watching every weekend is not the same as actually being out there. This doesn't just apply to MX.

Gary Kubiak played in the NFL and he coaches in the NFL. Mike McCarthy played in college. These guys weren't just fans.
3/1/2016 4:32pm
When your insight and/or opinion of something race related doesn't really grasp what took place is it so far fetched to think it is because you've...
When your insight and/or opinion of something race related doesn't really grasp what took place is it so far fetched to think it is because you've never been in that situation? I'm sure most of us have said at some point "hey I've never been through that, I don't really know what that guy is going through, I can only imagine." Watching every weekend is not the same as actually being out there. This doesn't just apply to MX.

Gary Kubiak played in the NFL and he coaches in the NFL. Mike McCarthy played in college. These guys weren't just fans.
Have you lead a 450 main event for 19 laps with the points leader right behind you? I don't think any of us can relate to that or other instances that have occurred the weekends. I've ridden in the past, I've been through it when my good friend came from 125 novice to earn his pro license. I know it is not easy and I know how demanding it is. Do I know personally exactly what it feels like to be leading a pro race? Hell no, but if that's what it takes for insight to be credible, then 99% of the posts on here are invalid.
3/1/2016 4:42pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2016 4:44pm
....Colleen millsapps could throw down some laps for sure. Her technique would be on point. Technique gets your speed quicker. If that makes sense.

Amit of us haven't lead a 450 main. But I bet many have been in die hard battles with someone locally. And you're still feeling the same pressure. You know the guy is breathing down your neck. So it makes it easier to form an educated opinion on what the hell is happening at the pro level. End opinion.
3/1/2016 4:52pm
Sorry guys, but unless you've won a 250 SX race, you know absolutely nothing about racing and your opinion is worthless! Laughing

skip to 9:45 or just watch the whole thing....


https://youtu.be/1zmcJnkPOdQ
BSmooth13
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3/1/2016 4:54pm
In techy terms, binary logic. I like this, great points.

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