High speed better than low speed crash?

The Rock
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Edited Date/Time 2/21/2016 8:39pm
It's a close call but I think I have been injured worse with lower speed crashes. My theory is low speed is generally WHAM and your stuffed into the terra firma like a lawn dart whereas higher speed crashes provide the opportunity to scrub off some speed with the tumbling that usually accompanies higher speed get offs.

What do you think?
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2/21/2016 10:26am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2016 10:26am
Its not the speed of the crash, more how quickly you come to a stop, force and momentum.
The Rock
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2/21/2016 10:34am
Zackly! My point is I've had less sudden stops with higher speed crashes.
jeffro503
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2/21/2016 10:36am
What?

You can get hurt going down at any speed , but generally the high speed get offs are what destroys a guy. Slow speed you can snap something.....high speed , you can snap multiple things. My worst one's were always high speed.
KMC440
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2/21/2016 10:38am
Don't fall down. Blink simple.

The Shop

Bodieg3
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2/21/2016 10:47am
You do realize at some point In high speed crash u are going the same speed as any of the low speed crashes you've had .
The Rock
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2/21/2016 11:01am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2016 11:02am
I realize this but in my experience I've had less sudden stops in higher speed crashes and have been fortunate to tumble and roll absorbing some of the energy before stopping.

For sure there is no one size fits all rule here just curious what other people have experienced.

KMC440-good point

Mit12
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2/21/2016 11:03am
It's not the fall that hurts it's the sudden stop at the end that hurts.
KTMShane699
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2/21/2016 11:07am
Speed is the exponential factor in determining force as related to crashes. Force is equal to mass (weight) times acceleration (speed in this case) squared. So a slight increase in speed is a significantly higher force. That being said, when it comes to the human body any impact has the potential to cause injury (minor to severe).

Given what I know of kinematics of trauma and how they relate to injuries, I'll take my chances with low speed over high speed any day.
KennyT
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2/21/2016 11:07am
My opinion is the same as you Rock. Low speed = thump/splat
High speed= tumble/roll

Prntscrn
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2/21/2016 11:08am
I've only been hurt in high speed so I'm gonna go with that's the worse.

But yeah I have seen a lot of these simple tip over resulting in an broken wrist/arm
jeffro503
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2/21/2016 11:09am
The Rock wrote:
I realize this but in my experience I've had less sudden stops in higher speed crashes and have been fortunate to tumble and roll absorbing some...
I realize this but in my experience I've had less sudden stops in higher speed crashes and have been fortunate to tumble and roll absorbing some of the energy before stopping.

For sure there is no one size fits all rule here just curious what other people have experienced.

KMC440-good point

I get your point Rock. I did however have a buddy of mine way back when ( Name was Grant )....tipped over in a rutted corner and broke his back. Very tall and lanky rider , and he just fell off the bike the wrong way. It ended his riding days.
marx41
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2/21/2016 11:24am
This is purely speculatory, and obviously not the case in every instance, but I think a lot of times in low speed crashed, you try to brace yourself more for impacts causing more tension, etc, whereas in higher speed get offs your body it just loose and "ragdolling" in a sense, letting things move more freely and go where they want. Like I said, this obviously isn't the case in every scenario, and yes there are obviously high speed crashes that are going to just wreck your shit regardless, but this is my theory.
The Rock
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2/21/2016 11:29am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2016 11:31am
Sorry about Grant.

To your point Jimmy Button was probably going the lowest speed they went on the course but landed the wrong way.

Probably six a one half a dozen of the other but I'm not a fan of low speed lawn dart crashes. I had one last month that left me with four broken ribs and a concussion. It was actually probably a little more medium speed but for sure it was a WHAM and lights out for a moment. I was either knocked out or my DVR was knocked offline as I have no recollection of a minute or so. I still was extremely lucky to walk away since the bike landed on me.

It can always be worse.

marx41: ragdoll > lawn dart where > equals better

2/21/2016 11:33am
Wouldnt know, ive never gained enough speed to actually perform a high speed crash Silly
2/21/2016 11:40am
Maybe you guys should do a study.
Hut
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2/21/2016 12:00pm
Broken bones at high speed and torn ACL at corner speed. Weird shit happens sometimes
brimx153
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2/21/2016 12:22pm
The Rock wrote:
It's a close call but I think I have been injured worse with lower speed crashes. My theory is low speed is generally WHAM and your...
It's a close call but I think I have been injured worse with lower speed crashes. My theory is low speed is generally WHAM and your stuffed into the terra firma like a lawn dart whereas higher speed crashes provide the opportunity to scrub off some speed with the tumbling that usually accompanies higher speed get offs.

What do you think?
I really agree with you. I think you tend to roll when your going faster .(most of the time) .At low speed you tend to fall and come to a stop every time lmo
Rexblaster
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2/21/2016 12:47pm
Definitely see your point and i do agree, the only time i think higher would be worse is if you somehow get off the bike in mid air, because then you have gravity and its much harder to just "roll". More of a "splat".
2/21/2016 12:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2016 1:09pm
Really? No one has enough common sense to explain this?

You dont go as fast near obstacles that create a more perpendicular collision path. You are usually going mach speed in a section with smoother obstacles, or no obstacles, so that when you crash, the deceleration is not as great due to the angle of incidence when you hit. You bounce and tumble. I would rather glance off a face at 10 degrees going 40 mph than hit a face at 75 degrees going 18 mph. But hit at a 75 degree angle at 40 mph...?

40*sin(10 degrees) = 7.9 mph (like hitting a wall at 90 degrees at 7.9 mph)
18*sin(75 degrees) = 17.3 mph (like hitting a wall at 90 degrees at 17.3 mph)
Now, if you hit at a 75 degree angle going 40 mph...you are probably dead.

You do not roll because of the speed, you roll because the angle of impact allows you to roll. You are comparing apples and oranges and making stupid conclusions. More speed always means a great potential for rapid deceleration, which equals trauma. Look at road riders when they hit cars, curbs and walls. They die.
kkawboy14
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2/21/2016 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2016 2:53pm
No rythm section is high speed, high speed sections are typicaly flat, so yeah I would rather crash on a flat area as opposed to a triple
ATKpilot99
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2/21/2016 12:59pm
Ryan Hughes said something to this effect in an interview I read sometime ago when comparing SX crashes to outdoors.
2/21/2016 1:10pm
Hut wrote:
Broken bones at high speed and torn ACL at corner speed. Weird shit happens sometimes
I tore my ACL in 4th gear...and I did not even crash. Heel to ground contact for a split second at the wrong time.
Beast666
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2/21/2016 1:57pm
A lot of it has to do with the rider themselves.. I have seen several friends that nearly every time they went down they ended up in the ER I myself have broken 1 bone in 20+ years of racing moto and jet ski's. In that one crash I ended breaking my L collarbone as well as writing off the bike as the damage would have cost more to repair than replacing the entire bike ($900.00 in 1980). That crash was my first big crash (high speed). Later on I had much worse crashes and got up and rode away.

I honestly feel that to many riders tense up and try to break there fall instead of relaxing and going with the flow. Another factor is the riders bone density Mine is currently 3X higher than the density of a typical 21 year old bone density I am currently 52 and had it tested 5 months ago.
The Rock
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2/21/2016 2:24pm
Maybe you guys should do a study.
We are actually conducting a study now to see if we should do a study or not on this issue.
2/21/2016 5:21pm
Maybe you guys should do a study.
The Rock wrote:
We are actually conducting a study now to see if we should do a study or not on this issue.
I say no.

PFitzG38
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2/21/2016 8:05pm
The Rock wrote:
It's a close call but I think I have been injured worse with lower speed crashes. My theory is low speed is generally WHAM and your...
It's a close call but I think I have been injured worse with lower speed crashes. My theory is low speed is generally WHAM and your stuffed into the terra firma like a lawn dart whereas higher speed crashes provide the opportunity to scrub off some speed with the tumbling that usually accompanies higher speed get offs.

What do you think?
I haven't read the whole thread if this has already been mentioned but a few years back Ryno alluded to this. He even used the same analogy "Lawn Dart". His theory was high speed crashes you skip better. Seems to make sense, unless you start spinning then centrifugal force can pull your limbs out to get landed on awkwardly. BTW please don't get started with Ryno theories I was just responding to Rocks question.
Hut
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2/21/2016 8:39pm
Hut wrote:
Broken bones at high speed and torn ACL at corner speed. Weird shit happens sometimes
I tore my ACL in 4th gear...and I did not even crash. Heel to ground contact for a split second at the wrong time.
I know how that feels

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