'Making a Murderer' on Netflix - Thoughts?

Firefly47
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Firefly47 12/31/2015 10:59am
12/31/2015 10:59am
DanDunes818 wrote:
Yeah, that's what I get from all the "locals" i've chatted with online. The problem is, a lot of these stories stem and continued from the...
Yeah, that's what I get from all the "locals" i've chatted with online. The problem is, a lot of these stories stem and continued from the BS rape case. It's hard to erase the stigma that was stuck on him for the 18 years he was in prison for something he didn't do. Sure, some may believe he didn't rape that woman (a lot still believe he did it despite his unimpeachable exoneration) but all the other stories that sprouted due to the rape charge are still all true in most of their minds.

I live in a small town of 600 in rural Oregon and I totally understand how families get a reputation and how that reputation travels throughout the tree. I moved here back in 2012 and have heard "oh, he's from the such and such family and they're all pieces of shit" more times than I can count. I manage nine rental properties in town and had someone from one of those "such and such" families apply to live in one of our houses. I called for references and heard stuff like "I would never rent to any of the such and suches, they're all scumbags." Or, "you would be crazy to rent to them because all the such and suches are tweakers." Instead of going off that, we simply did an interview with them, ran a background check and treated them like anyone else. The kid was in college at Pacific U and seemed to be a good kid, with a new family and just stuck with an unjust stigma. He even explained to me how they got that reputation and it was by simply pissing off the wrong person (the town major, who's family was also the sheriff and city council president) 25 years ago (before he was born) and one of his cousins getting in trouble for statutory rape (kid was 18 girl was 17, both in same high school) exacerbated the situation.

We checked out his story and his background and ended up letting the very qualified applicant rent from us. Two and a half years later, that family was honestly one of the best renters we ever had, they got their full deposit back and I've tried changing their reputation when I can. I still hear the same shit about them, though. And, because I've only been here a few years, my outsider opinion doesn't carry much weight.

Like Shane said, though, labeling an entire family and convicting them of local crimes based on that label, is a very slippery slope. Definitely not one I'll ever slide down and one I will try to detour my kids around.
All the locals you've chatted with online?
I hope it's more reliable and trustworthy than your supercross/motocross "reporting".
Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 12/31/2015 6:32pm
12/31/2015 6:32pm
I just spent two days watching the documentary. I really liked it, but I have two more episodes left. I do sense a lot of bias in the documentary, and there is a lot which is being left out. I'd like to see more of the prosecutors ending statements in regards to how he sums up the evidence pointing to Avery, and how it still withstands the test even if you look past the key of the RAV4. Also, there is very little shown of the prosecutors questioning. I'd like to see more of that as I am sure they had some good point. We mostly got to see the good points the defence had.

My impression based on only what I've seen in the doc:
1. The prosecutor was incredibly unprofessional in the way he dealt with the case in the media and the information he gave out. He seened almost theatrical and created a narrative for the media to use.

2. You get to see the power the media has

3. The ex boyfriend was the first and only person I suspected. Randomly guessing the password on her voicemail and importsnt voicemails gone is beyond fishy. The girl having a bothersome person she hated trying to get ahold of her constantly. And the boyfriend leading the search which accidentally found the car... BUT, You can't know anything of value from a show, you need to know everythibg to even remotely have a chance to make a qualified guess
Harry Backmon 1/1/2016 8:25am
1/1/2016 8:25am
Sunhouse wrote:
I just spent two days watching the documentary. I really liked it, but I have two more episodes left. I do sense a lot of bias...
I just spent two days watching the documentary. I really liked it, but I have two more episodes left. I do sense a lot of bias in the documentary, and there is a lot which is being left out. I'd like to see more of the prosecutors ending statements in regards to how he sums up the evidence pointing to Avery, and how it still withstands the test even if you look past the key of the RAV4. Also, there is very little shown of the prosecutors questioning. I'd like to see more of that as I am sure they had some good point. We mostly got to see the good points the defence had.

My impression based on only what I've seen in the doc:
1. The prosecutor was incredibly unprofessional in the way he dealt with the case in the media and the information he gave out. He seened almost theatrical and created a narrative for the media to use.

2. You get to see the power the media has

3. The ex boyfriend was the first and only person I suspected. Randomly guessing the password on her voicemail and importsnt voicemails gone is beyond fishy. The girl having a bothersome person she hated trying to get ahold of her constantly. And the boyfriend leading the search which accidentally found the car... BUT, You can't know anything of value from a show, you need to know everythibg to even remotely have a chance to make a qualified guess
Good points, Sunhouse. I have to admit I was pretty angry after watching this. The main point of anger for me was the way they railroaded that kid. He didn't have a chance. An IQ of 70. A verbal IQ of 69. One very telling point for me was when his mom told him that the police found his statements "inconsistent."

He replies, "What does that mean?"

Mom replies, "I don't know."
Hut
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Hut 1/1/2016 8:51am
1/1/2016 8:51am Edited Date/Time 1/1/2016 9:10am
Welp; if we are going to start passing out lifetime prison sentences based on public opinion; a good start.





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eeazye
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eeazye 1/1/2016 2:36pm
1/1/2016 2:36pm
I think it's a shame it ever got that far. Should've gone for the death penalty on the piece of garbage when he admitted to throwing a live animal into a fire. And in the same manner. Unbelievable
1
GeorgiePorgie 1/1/2016 5:05pm
1/1/2016 5:05pm Edited Date/Time 1/1/2016 5:09pm
Man if we locked people up based on capability id get the electric chair. Help people would accuse me of trying to kill off the low life's.

Which--obviously, and I wouldn't and don't. But I'm sure the sex crazed DA could pin something on me that I didn't do. Maybe get my DNA on a syringe I used, but no DNA shows up from The injected patient....

Due process needs to be protected and not fucked with like this whole Avery case.


The cat in the fire thing is bad, but the guy owned up to that and did his time. It's like damn once people do the time we gotta try to get on with it and treat them to the day not to the past. Unless they didn't serve time, then judge them all you want until there is some justice.
Hut
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Hut 1/1/2016 5:27pm
1/1/2016 5:27pm
I somehow missed the throwing a live animal into a fire incident. No penalty severe enough for that sort of thing.
I still don't believe that justifies all the crooked shit the prosecution pulled. Especially when the real killer is most likely still free.
1
DanDunes818 1/1/2016 10:05pm
1/1/2016 10:05pm
Sunhouse wrote:
I just spent two days watching the documentary. I really liked it, but I have two more episodes left. I do sense a lot of bias...
I just spent two days watching the documentary. I really liked it, but I have two more episodes left. I do sense a lot of bias in the documentary, and there is a lot which is being left out. I'd like to see more of the prosecutors ending statements in regards to how he sums up the evidence pointing to Avery, and how it still withstands the test even if you look past the key of the RAV4. Also, there is very little shown of the prosecutors questioning. I'd like to see more of that as I am sure they had some good point. We mostly got to see the good points the defence had.

My impression based on only what I've seen in the doc:
1. The prosecutor was incredibly unprofessional in the way he dealt with the case in the media and the information he gave out. He seened almost theatrical and created a narrative for the media to use.

2. You get to see the power the media has

3. The ex boyfriend was the first and only person I suspected. Randomly guessing the password on her voicemail and importsnt voicemails gone is beyond fishy. The girl having a bothersome person she hated trying to get ahold of her constantly. And the boyfriend leading the search which accidentally found the car... BUT, You can't know anything of value from a show, you need to know everythibg to even remotely have a chance to make a qualified guess
Harry Backmon wrote:
Good points, Sunhouse. I have to admit I was pretty angry after watching this. The main point of anger for me was the way they railroaded...
Good points, Sunhouse. I have to admit I was pretty angry after watching this. The main point of anger for me was the way they railroaded that kid. He didn't have a chance. An IQ of 70. A verbal IQ of 69. One very telling point for me was when his mom told him that the police found his statements "inconsistent."

He replies, "What does that mean?"

Mom replies, "I don't know."
Harry, even worse was when his mom answered Brendan's question with, " I don't know". Or, "i'm not sure". Yeah, Brendan's whole deal had me so pissed. I just couldn't believe it when his own attorney had him sit with his own investigator, who treated him worse than the cops. Then, simply turned all that over to the prosecutor. It's also incredible that, after his attorney was fired for doing that, the judge still allowed that all to be used at trial as evidence against the poor kid.
DanDunes818 1/1/2016 10:08pm
1/1/2016 10:08pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
Man if we locked people up based on capability id get the electric chair. Help people would accuse me of trying to kill off the low...
Man if we locked people up based on capability id get the electric chair. Help people would accuse me of trying to kill off the low life's.

Which--obviously, and I wouldn't and don't. But I'm sure the sex crazed DA could pin something on me that I didn't do. Maybe get my DNA on a syringe I used, but no DNA shows up from The injected patient....

Due process needs to be protected and not fucked with like this whole Avery case.


The cat in the fire thing is bad, but the guy owned up to that and did his time. It's like damn once people do the time we gotta try to get on with it and treat them to the day not to the past. Unless they didn't serve time, then judge them all you want until there is some justice.
I 100% agree. Kind of like OJ Simpson getting a crazy amount of time for his Las Vegas BS crime. That crime would normally have gotten him county time, but because he never served time for the murder most know he committed, they threw the book at him. That, i'm okay with. But, if somebody owned up for it and served their time, it's done in my eyes.
Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 1/2/2016 1:29am
1/2/2016 1:29am
DanDunes818 wrote:
Harry, even worse was when his mom answered Brendan's question with, " I don't know". Or, "i'm not sure". Yeah, Brendan's whole deal had me so...
Harry, even worse was when his mom answered Brendan's question with, " I don't know". Or, "i'm not sure". Yeah, Brendan's whole deal had me so pissed. I just couldn't believe it when his own attorney had him sit with his own investigator, who treated him worse than the cops. Then, simply turned all that over to the prosecutor. It's also incredible that, after his attorney was fired for doing that, the judge still allowed that all to be used at trial as evidence against the poor kid.
Most of these issues would not have been able to happen had the US ratified the UN convention on childrens rights. And in Avery's case his case would not have stood the test had they ratified the right to a fair trial. It is worth considering that the US government does not ratify conventions which give its citizens increased protection from abusive state or federal power. One of the reasons being so they can torture and/or interrogate and imprison terrorists with disregard to fundmental human rights the rest of the civilized world gives its people. All the while telling you it is to make you safer. the result is ofthis policy is very clear in this documentary
reinvented 1/2/2016 6:12am
1/2/2016 6:12am
"That, i'm okay with. But, if somebody owned up for it and served their time, it's done in my eyes".

Should there ever be a "time" a murderer should be set free again? Huh
reinvented 1/2/2016 6:18am
1/2/2016 6:18am
"It is worth considering that the US government does not ratify conventions which give its citizens increased protection from abusive state or federal power. One of the reasons being so they can torture and/or interrogate and imprison terrorists with disregard to fundmental human rights the rest of the civilized world gives its people. All the while telling you it is to make you safer."

So now YOU know what it takes to make us safer from terrorists.?Huh
What about the disregard the terrorists have for human rights.....or life?

Kind of hard to relate parts and pieces of this case to terrorism by the islamo-nazis!
Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 1/2/2016 7:49am
1/2/2016 7:49am
reinvented wrote:
[b]"It is worth considering that the US government does not ratify conventions which give its citizens increased protection from abusive state or federal power. One of...
"It is worth considering that the US government does not ratify conventions which give its citizens increased protection from abusive state or federal power. One of the reasons being so they can torture and/or interrogate and imprison terrorists with disregard to fundmental human rights the rest of the civilized world gives its people. All the while telling you it is to make you safer."

So now YOU know what it takes to make us safer from terrorists.?Huh
What about the disregard the terrorists have for human rights.....or life?

Kind of hard to relate parts and pieces of this case to terrorism by the islamo-nazis!
I don't think you understand what I am saying. If that is a sacrifice you are willing to make, that is none of my business. I merely point out that justice is something you give up if you deem search for potential terrorists on the other side of the world more important than the fundamental rights and freedoms of your people. I find it odd from a cultural point of view that it is OK to deny fundamental human rights to people, and they are ok with it. But touch the subject of stricter gun laws and everyone cries out about big government and freedom. Nothing is more dangerous than a government or system which denies its citizens fundamental rights which are given to most other civilized countries. Little do they know that their most important freedoms are not protected, and it seems like some people are ok with that. Personally I find that very strange and IMO that information and perspective is not given to the masses by the media. Again, I am not trying to bash anyone or turn this into a gun debate or a cultural. I am just trying to put what I was trying to convey into perspective. Especially when you see how the little man so easily can be mistreated by the strong. Human rights conventions are there to protect the individual from such abuse of power
reinvented 1/2/2016 9:10am
1/2/2016 9:10am
^^^Oh , I agree there are times when the power is abused...no doubt in my mind!!!...and it is very unfortunate when it happens because of people in to much of a hurry to please the public or admit when they are getting it wrong!

But having said that....You only hear of when it goes drastically wrong or when power is abused. (as in Averys rape case)
And even then you get the media slant of whatever side that media source leans to.

Im all for putting violent offenders away for good. IMO, penalties for violent crimes against other people are not anywhere near harsh enough! Not even close!
You want to reduce gun crime..?....make the penalty for ANY crime against another person with a gun life in prison.(provided its provable beyond reasonable doubt of course)

Terrorists....?....How they ever get let back out is mind boggling to me.Dry

Regardless of the times our system is abused/misused....we have to trust in SOME SORT of legal system because without one in place we turn into Syria or worse.
GeorgiePorgie 1/2/2016 10:49am
1/2/2016 10:49am
reinvented wrote:
[b]"It is worth considering that the US government does not ratify conventions which give its citizens increased protection from abusive state or federal power. One of...
"It is worth considering that the US government does not ratify conventions which give its citizens increased protection from abusive state or federal power. One of the reasons being so they can torture and/or interrogate and imprison terrorists with disregard to fundmental human rights the rest of the civilized world gives its people. All the while telling you it is to make you safer."

So now YOU know what it takes to make us safer from terrorists.?Huh
What about the disregard the terrorists have for human rights.....or life?

Kind of hard to relate parts and pieces of this case to terrorism by the islamo-nazis!
Sunhouse wrote:
I don't think you understand what I am saying. If that is a sacrifice you are willing to make, that is none of my business. I...
I don't think you understand what I am saying. If that is a sacrifice you are willing to make, that is none of my business. I merely point out that justice is something you give up if you deem search for potential terrorists on the other side of the world more important than the fundamental rights and freedoms of your people. I find it odd from a cultural point of view that it is OK to deny fundamental human rights to people, and they are ok with it. But touch the subject of stricter gun laws and everyone cries out about big government and freedom. Nothing is more dangerous than a government or system which denies its citizens fundamental rights which are given to most other civilized countries. Little do they know that their most important freedoms are not protected, and it seems like some people are ok with that. Personally I find that very strange and IMO that information and perspective is not given to the masses by the media. Again, I am not trying to bash anyone or turn this into a gun debate or a cultural. I am just trying to put what I was trying to convey into perspective. Especially when you see how the little man so easily can be mistreated by the strong. Human rights conventions are there to protect the individual from such abuse of power
The problem is kids today (16-22) haven't seen a world like our great grandparents and grandparents when the nazis took rights away from everyone. they got nothing better to do than dress like a hipster, listen to their liberal college professors and stick up for what they think are real problems. Like gay marriage and transgenders. And gun control! Who needs a gun? These sheltered kids don't. But if one of those sheltered kids was a Jew when hitler came to town they woulda been burned before they knew their own fate.

Govt can get that out of control again. And the kids that feel safe at night don't know a lot about giving up rights because they never needed to use their rights. College history classes need to teach this tyrannical govt mentalities. Mine didn't. All my history professor kept drilling into my head is the tea party are a bunch of tea-baggers

Ugh. End rant sorry. Off topic
RMT
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RMT 1/3/2016 12:38pm
1/3/2016 12:38pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
The problem is kids today (16-22) haven't seen a world like our great grandparents and grandparents when the nazis took rights away from everyone. they got...
The problem is kids today (16-22) haven't seen a world like our great grandparents and grandparents when the nazis took rights away from everyone. they got nothing better to do than dress like a hipster, listen to their liberal college professors and stick up for what they think are real problems. Like gay marriage and transgenders. And gun control! Who needs a gun? These sheltered kids don't. But if one of those sheltered kids was a Jew when hitler came to town they woulda been burned before they knew their own fate.

Govt can get that out of control again. And the kids that feel safe at night don't know a lot about giving up rights because they never needed to use their rights. College history classes need to teach this tyrannical govt mentalities. Mine didn't. All my history professor kept drilling into my head is the tea party are a bunch of tea-baggers

Ugh. End rant sorry. Off topic
Just curious how old you are? You talk about these current day hipsters and then say your professors talked about the tea party which has only been around since 08-09.
JB 19
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JB 19 1/4/2016 4:57am
1/4/2016 4:57am Edited Date/Time 1/4/2016 5:10am
I hate to make blanket statements, but these cases make that whole area look like a bunch of inbred cronies. I sure hope that everyone around there isn't that way. There was so much wrong doing that it was as if a group of teenagers thought the whole scenario up......and then the cronie judge, prosecutors, and everyone else turned a blind eye and allowed it to happen.

The Steven Avery deal is terrible, but what they did to that kid is despicable. Old world cronism in full effect.

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ocscottie
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ocscottie 1/4/2016 5:11pm
1/4/2016 5:11pm
This story is on Nancey Grace right now, she is GOING OFF!
DanDunes818 1/4/2016 5:23pm
1/4/2016 5:23pm
ocscottie wrote:
This story is on Nancey Grace right now, she is GOING OFF!
If there's somebody on Earth I dislike more than Nancy Grace, I have not met them yet. Anyone accused by the state is guilty til proven innocent with that chick. She also has absolutely no shame in her decisions on which cases she wants to sensationalize.
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JB 19 1/4/2016 5:27pm
1/4/2016 5:27pm
ocscottie wrote:
This story is on Nancey Grace right now, she is GOING OFF!
Which side is she on this time? Because normally she tries to make every man out to be a manical woman hater/ killer.
JB 19
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JB 19 1/4/2016 5:34pm
1/4/2016 5:34pm
A federal court from a more enlightened area should at the very least have to reinvestigate the case against Brendan Dassy. That poor kid. Everyone involved should be beaten to death with a whuffle ball bat.
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motosmith 1/4/2016 6:03pm
1/4/2016 6:03pm
JB 19
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JB 19 1/4/2016 6:25pm
1/4/2016 6:25pm
motosmith wrote:
[img]https://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Krachinsky-e1451873956501.jpg[/img]
The knuckle head probably didn't even know he was their number one pawn.
Hut
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Hut 1/4/2016 6:45pm
1/4/2016 6:45pm
ocscottie wrote:
This story is on Nancey Grace right now, she is GOING OFF!
JB 19 wrote:
Which side is she on this time? Because normally she tries to make every man out to be a manical woman hater/ killer.
Yea I am also curious where she stands on all this one.
Hut
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Hut 1/4/2016 6:47pm
1/4/2016 6:47pm
motosmith wrote:
[img]https://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Krachinsky-e1451873956501.jpg[/img]
This guy should be locked up for the good of society.
Firefly47
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Firefly47 1/4/2016 8:09pm
1/4/2016 8:09pm
I still think this documentary is leaving stuff out.
Let's see how this plays out.
GeorgiePorgie 1/4/2016 8:21pm
1/4/2016 8:21pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
The problem is kids today (16-22) haven't seen a world like our great grandparents and grandparents when the nazis took rights away from everyone. they got...
The problem is kids today (16-22) haven't seen a world like our great grandparents and grandparents when the nazis took rights away from everyone. they got nothing better to do than dress like a hipster, listen to their liberal college professors and stick up for what they think are real problems. Like gay marriage and transgenders. And gun control! Who needs a gun? These sheltered kids don't. But if one of those sheltered kids was a Jew when hitler came to town they woulda been burned before they knew their own fate.

Govt can get that out of control again. And the kids that feel safe at night don't know a lot about giving up rights because they never needed to use their rights. College history classes need to teach this tyrannical govt mentalities. Mine didn't. All my history professor kept drilling into my head is the tea party are a bunch of tea-baggers

Ugh. End rant sorry. Off topic
RMT wrote:
Just curious how old you are? You talk about these current day hipsters and then say your professors talked about the tea party which has only...
Just curious how old you are? You talk about these current day hipsters and then say your professors talked about the tea party which has only been around since 08-09.
29. I'm a kid myself. But my generation is severely uninformed. The cool thing is to be stupid I guess. It blows my mind how many uninformed people there are. Or just won't take the time to make their own informed decision about something. They believe what they're told not what they investigate.
KTMShane699
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KTMShane699 1/5/2016 3:16am
1/5/2016 3:16am
Firefly47 wrote:
I still think this documentary is leaving stuff out.
Let's see how this plays out.
Without a doubt the documentary is leaving things out. It's how any documentary is done in that it's usually designed to shape your view after watching it.

But regardless of what was left out, the one constant is that rights were violated and due process ignored. This didn't happen just once to Steven Avery, but twice. Brendan's rights were violated in how they coerced his confession, and how they made him think they were helping him. His lawyer (who has a legal responsibility to act in his clients best interest) never did him any favors and should be disbarred for how he handled the case.

Due process does not include having the same judge who presided over the trial hearing the appeals too. There is zero impartiality in this case, and that's where the case is flawed regardless of guilt or innocence.

If Steven Avery committed this murder, and there's more that was left out of the documentary; why would there be so many flaws in the process? A good case is a good case that will stand on its own. It doesn't need help or the same team weaving its way through the entire thing and along two cases to try to make it stand.

I don't think he did it, personally. He owned up to his other crimes. He never admitted guilt in the rape, because he wasn't guilty. He's never admitted guilt in the murder. He has too much to lose by committing this crime. There's no way he didn't know that. My opinion is also that there's no way he's smart enough to have cleaned the house and garage as well as he would have had to to in order to get rid of all the evidence. They found nothing in the house in a timely manner or on a first search. Everything was missed until long after. Doesn't make sense, does it? I get missing something. But missing everything until then?

Shane
bob567
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bob567 1/5/2016 3:36am
1/5/2016 3:36am
It was interesting to watch. In the end the fact that is undeniable is the entire Manitowoc, WI police department is corrupt and unlawful.

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