Mugen cr 125 cylinders

Banana_oil
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11/20/2015 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2015 1:27pm
Sounds nice, my friend who will arrange the dyna has access to a messico pipe that we will evalute it together with my HGS and DEP pipes.

I will also try to measure the porting and compare with stock and my YZs.
luckynino
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11/20/2015 1:31pm
Banana_oil wrote:
Sounds nice, my friend who will arrange the dyna has access to a messico pipe that we will evalute it together with my HGS and DEP...
Sounds nice, my friend who will arrange the dyna has access to a messico pipe that we will evalute it together with my HGS and DEP pipes.

I will also try to measure the porting and compare with stock and my YZs.
i hope you have a Messico "Racing" as they offer different versions...
Banana_oil
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11/20/2015 1:37pm
luckynino wrote:
i hope you have a Messico "Racing" as they offer different versions...
yes, it is the racing pipe
Tracktor
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11/20/2015 3:08pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
If a mugen cylinder will make a cr comparable to a Yz or Ktm id pay 2500 for a new in box cylinder all day. Beats...
If a mugen cylinder will make a cr comparable to a Yz or Ktm id pay 2500 for a new in box cylinder all day. Beats a 8,000 out the door 125 all day in my opinion. I was quoted 8300 for a Ktm 150. I can build an all titanium bolted, A kit suspension , mugen cylinder cr 125 for 6k and still have parts to resale in the future if needed.
I dunno, I let a couple YZ125 owners ride our '02 Cr125 with the HPP cylinder and every single one liked it better. I let one of my son's competitors race it when his blew up and he was blown away how much faster it was. If a Mugen is even better than that it should be a no brainer.

Best pipe we found was the '03 KX125 pipe. Cheap, easy to fit and makes more rideable power than anything else we tried..................

The Shop

RyanLester761
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11/24/2015 4:43pm
Ryan there's plenty on youtube! Search for mugen CR125 Smile
I found the videos. Thanks! Boy, does that bike scream!
Hasletjoe
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11/26/2015 8:28am
Chasing a rumor here, was there ever Mugen cylinders for the 75-77 CR 250 that made them into 400's?
Dutchman
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11/26/2015 11:54am
Hasletjoe wrote:
Chasing a rumor here, was there ever Mugen cylinders for the 75-77 CR 250 that made them into 400's?
As far as I know these don't exist.
This webpage give an overview of all Mugen Power kits made: http://mugen125.tripod.com/kits.htm
arvid
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11/27/2015 8:48am


Look what i found!
Hasletjoe
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11/27/2015 8:50am
Thanks for the link Dutch....
billyslad
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11/27/2015 10:00am
where on earth did you find that !
arvid
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11/27/2015 10:26am
billyslad wrote:
where on earth did you find that !
I bought it from a friend today and a cr 125 1992 bike.
luckynino
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11/27/2015 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 11/27/2015 2:01pm
arvid wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/27/112748/s1200_DSC_0057.jpg[/img] Look what i found!


Look what i found!
Congrats - cool find!

I suggest you keep those Mugen pistons and use other pistons instead! Those pistons are "unobtainium". I personally use Vertex 22190 pistons which also come without the window on the intake side just as the Mugen pistons. I just add 2 small holes to the exhaust side for lubrication of the exhaust bridge.

Vertex 22190


You want to use 98/99 HPP valves as those are the best HPP valves for all those engines. Don't use the stock 90-92 valves as those definitely hinder best performance (lack of top-end)!

98/99 HPP valves with that unique L-shape which makes for better seal when closed. The stock 90-92 ones are too restrictive for top-end and still have blow-by when closed (in the area where the red arrow points to). You'll get more revs and top-end with newer HPP valves and as mentioned best low-end as well by using the 98/99 ones.


And keep also an eye on the o-rings of the head as those go bad with time. Esapecially the inner one. I found some modern replacements (and also kept the original ones untouched)

arvid
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11/27/2015 11:39pm
Hi Nino thanx for the info.

Are these Mugen pistons with windows ?
luckynino
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11/28/2015 4:44am Edited Date/Time 11/28/2015 4:45am
arvid wrote:
Hi Nino thanx for the info.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/27/112848/s1200_DSC_0058.jpg[/img] Are these Mugen pistons with windows ?
Hi Nino thanx for the info.

Are these Mugen pistons with windows ?
No idea what these are...they seem shorter in overall height.
I wouldn't use such pistons.

There is a reason why Mugen pistons don't come with the window. There is no need for any experiments. Just follow my suggestions and you'll be rewarded with a fast engine mith awesome power.
arvid
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11/28/2015 5:47am
Ok im will use vertex pistons .
Lasse
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11/29/2015 4:57am
At those prices it would seem profitable to have new ones cast Smile
Banana_oil
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11/29/2015 10:08am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2015 10:10am
arvid wrote:
Hi Nino thanx for the info.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/27/112848/s1200_DSC_0058.jpg[/img] Are these Mugen pistons with windows ?
Hi Nino thanx for the info.

Are these Mugen pistons with windows ?
The rear skirts are probably made shorter to not restrict the intake flow at bottom dead center. The srs pistons have another solution - they have a narrower but thicker material skirt.

The windows have come and gone through the years on the YZs so my guess is that it does not make a significant difference. In theory they will allow flow from the boost port into the crankcase but at that time the piston should be close to top dead center so the intake and crankcase pressure would be very similar and hence the flow will be low.
arvid
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11/30/2015 10:15am
Hey Banan do you have any idea what subframe this is?It was on my 1992 cr 125

Got no marks.
billyslad
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11/30/2015 12:03pm
VRP ?
Banana_oil
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11/30/2015 2:11pm
arvid wrote:
Hey Banan do you have any idea what subframe this is?It was on my 1992 cr 125[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/30/113152/s1200_DSC_0063.jpg[/img] Got no marks.
Hey Banan do you have any idea what subframe this is?It was on my 1992 cr 125

Got no marks.
Vrp are the only ones I know of, very rare! Do you know who the original owner of your bike was? Very few riders in Sweden had mugen or vrp.
Dutchman
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11/30/2015 2:17pm
It's a VRP subframe. Apparently not all VRP product were marked, see examples below.





luckynino
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11/30/2015 2:22pm
Yes-that's most probably a VRP

Varlo Verona did those in 1990 for the CR250 which already had the larger plastic airbox. It fits 1990-1992.

I had it in 1990 on my VRP already where you usually still had the smaller airbox that was covered by the numberplates. But to be even more ahead i not only changed chassis but also the plastics and mounted those of the 250 to have a completely different CR 125 than my competition Wink



Here's the spacier looking '89-'90 VRP airbox with integrated airbox which already had the bigger volume of the plastic airbox offered in years to come. VRP was really ahead of the time.


12/1/2015 12:20am
arvid wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/27/112748/s1200_DSC_0057.jpg[/img] Look what i found!


Look what i found!
luckynino wrote:
Congrats - cool find! I suggest you keep those Mugen pistons and use other pistons instead! Those pistons are "unobtainium". I personally use Vertex 22190 pistons...
Congrats - cool find!

I suggest you keep those Mugen pistons and use other pistons instead! Those pistons are "unobtainium". I personally use Vertex 22190 pistons which also come without the window on the intake side just as the Mugen pistons. I just add 2 small holes to the exhaust side for lubrication of the exhaust bridge.

Vertex 22190


You want to use 98/99 HPP valves as those are the best HPP valves for all those engines. Don't use the stock 90-92 valves as those definitely hinder best performance (lack of top-end)!

98/99 HPP valves with that unique L-shape which makes for better seal when closed. The stock 90-92 ones are too restrictive for top-end and still have blow-by when closed (in the area where the red arrow points to). You'll get more revs and top-end with newer HPP valves and as mentioned best low-end as well by using the 98/99 ones.


And keep also an eye on the o-rings of the head as those go bad with time. Esapecially the inner one. I found some modern replacements (and also kept the original ones untouched)

Hi Nino!

Is it correct that pistons for Mugen is flat top?


On my -90 CR125 piston has a dome, flat top came stock in -92 if I recall correctly?

Regards Marco
luckynino
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12/1/2015 12:52am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2015 12:59am
Hi Nino! Is it correct that pistons for Mugen is flat top? On my -90 CR125 piston has a dome, flat top came stock in -92...
Hi Nino!

Is it correct that pistons for Mugen is flat top?


On my -90 CR125 piston has a dome, flat top came stock in -92 if I recall correctly?

Regards Marco
Yes that's correct. These Mugens had flat top pistons. Easily recognizeable by looking at the heads. The shape of round top piston heads is different.

On round top heads the squish has already an angle and the overall design is "rounder" while on flat-top heads the squish seems flat with more of an angle to the dome.

Flat-top Mugen head:


Domed Mugen head:


Mugens have their own head design with 6 bolts instead of 5-bolts that come on stock heads. So you are forced to use those heads. And obviously over time also the heads are becoming rare. And doing head work on such precious items "hurts". When i bought one of my Mugens on Ebay it got delivered with the "wrong" head: a older Mugen head for round top pistons so useless for the '90 Kit i had in hand. Rather then waiting weeks to get hold of the correct flat-top head i decided to have that head modified. I now have a replaceable dome in that Mugen head which allows me to change shapes/compressions....it's good to know old Tuners with vast knowledge on twostroke engines Wink



12/1/2015 12:57am
Wich Mugens had domed pistons?

Pre HPP?

Regards Marco

luckynino
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12/1/2015 1:12am
Wich Mugens had domed pistons?

Pre HPP?

Regards Marco

If i remember correct it's already in '89 that they had flat top pistons. The last of the ATAC engines. I'm about to get a '89 Mugen kit so i'll let you know...Wink
12/1/2015 1:19am
'90/91 HPP motors had domed Pistons.
'92 on we're flat-topped.

Surprised all the mugen kits weren't for domed Pistons, as they're supposed to be more efficient at high revs than a flattie.
luckynino
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12/1/2015 1:23am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2015 1:23am
'90/91 HPP motors had domed Pistons. '92 on we're flat-topped. Surprised all the mugen kits weren't for domed Pistons, as they're supposed to be more efficient...
'90/91 HPP motors had domed Pistons.
'92 on we're flat-topped.

Surprised all the mugen kits weren't for domed Pistons, as they're supposed to be more efficient at high revs than a flattie.
Just try a Mugen and then tell me flat top pistons are "bad" for top-end Smile Smile Smile
12/1/2015 1:40am
Not denying that. But as you know, an engine is the sum of all its parts.
They obviously do two variants, a flat top and a domed top. I would expect if you changed just the piston and head alone, whilst keeping the other variables constant, the flat top piston would make slightly better mid range, and the domed one more up top.

The differences are small, but looking at the attention you pay to the details, you know as well as I do, that a lot of small improvements add up.
luckynino
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12/1/2015 3:01am
Not denying that. But as you know, an engine is the sum of all its parts. They obviously do two variants, a flat top and a...
Not denying that. But as you know, an engine is the sum of all its parts.
They obviously do two variants, a flat top and a domed top. I would expect if you changed just the piston and head alone, whilst keeping the other variables constant, the flat top piston would make slightly better mid range, and the domed one more up top.

The differences are small, but looking at the attention you pay to the details, you know as well as I do, that a lot of small improvements add up.
I know-but actually riding these engines speaks volumes. And if you look at Honda RS 125 GP pistons you also see they are flat-top. Also the HRC kit pistons. Those engines were all about top-speed as well...

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