Eye Safety/Tossing Goggles

bobojim
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7/29/2015 8:04pm
Cygnus wrote:
Nope. Then you will have guys just staying out there with next to no vision and maybe getting wrecked out or wrecking another rider out.
Exactly right. The issue is real. The intent of the rule might be good. But it would lead to people riding late in the race with no vision through their goggles rather than taking them off - which may be worse. The rule needs to be smarter.
The Rock
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7/29/2015 8:30pm
Cygnus wrote:
Nope. Then you will have guys just staying out there with next to no vision and maybe getting wrecked out or wrecking another rider out.
bobojim wrote:
Exactly right. The issue is real. The intent of the rule might be good. But it would lead to people riding late in the race with...
Exactly right. The issue is real. The intent of the rule might be good. But it would lead to people riding late in the race with no vision through their goggles rather than taking them off - which may be worse. The rule needs to be smarter.
The rule needs to be smarter.

Is it possible riders need to be smarter?
wsc96
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7/29/2015 9:06pm
I don't think it should be mandatory. If you force people to pit to replace them then they'll push it further with them on and with minimal vision due to the mud, it could lead to other (worse) accidents.
7/30/2015 3:54am
Every time I see it I just wonder why the hell they don't have a spare pair under their Jersey but around their neck, I did wonder if it was illegal over there but I heard somebody carried a spare pair the last race so I suppose not.

The Shop

Spooner
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7/30/2015 7:08am
With as little time it would take to stop for a fresh pair I don't see why they wouldn't be doing this already. I can't imagine you couldn't make up the 20 seconds or so by being able to see vs. other guys squinting with no goggles. And I think if you were required to pit for fresh goggles it would make guys do it more so I think guys would not try to stretch it out so far. The teams would probably find ways to make the stop even faster making the pit stop time even more negligible.
kkawboy14
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7/30/2015 7:46am
Mandatory pit stops for at least goggles and Popsicles
731chopper
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7/30/2015 8:11am
I cannot comprehend the logical opposition to something like this rule.

You have to have goggles on to start a race which shows that the rule makers see it as a mandatory piece of safety gear. However, you can immediately throw your goggles away and race the rest of the race without them? That is contradictory.

Changing the rule would leave 95% of professional motocross racing alone because how often does a rider toss his goggles if it isn't a mudder? It almost never happens. I remember hearing somebody on Pulp MX (don't remember who or if it was just a caller) but somebody brought up something similar to this topic and this person's response was something along the lines of "Well in a mudder it is just mud that is getting roosted - just dirt and water." I thought to myself, holy crap I hope this guy realizes what he just said and I wondered if it was this level of genius that was ultimately controlling things.

Do you guys really think somebody is going to be out there riding around with absolutely no vision blindly crashing into people because he doesn't want to take 15 seconds to stop and get fresh goggles? C'mon guys, that is classic fear mongering! If goggles weren't mandatory at the start of a race then the same thing could be said about people wanting to change the rule but they are mandatory which proves the necessity as a piece of safety equipment.
olds cool
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7/30/2015 8:50am
Competition yellow(s) like the NASCAR boys? Silly
The Rock
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7/30/2015 9:06am
gt80rider wrote:
With all the racers tossing their goggles the last couple of weeks, and with all the safety concerns in the sport right now, I am surprised...
With all the racers tossing their goggles the last couple of weeks, and with all the safety concerns in the sport right now, I am surprised that someone hasn't made it mandatory that if you pitch your goggles, you have to stop for new ones at the end of the lap. If you or I are working in a fab shop and our safety glasses got messed up, we would get fired for continuing to work without eye protection, and quite frankly, it shouldn't take someone losing their vision first before something is done about it.

Pass up the pit lane with no goggles, get docked a lap, pretty simple.
500guy wrote:
I tend to agree with you on this, with the roost these bikes put out I think it's the responsible thing to do.
Off topic but safety related Jay how do you feel about the upper body protection rule next year In MXGP?

Your comment it's the responsible thing to do made me think of this
TXDirt
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7/30/2015 9:08am
731chopper wrote:
I cannot comprehend the logical opposition to something like this rule. You have to have goggles on to start a race which shows that the rule...
I cannot comprehend the logical opposition to something like this rule.

You have to have goggles on to start a race which shows that the rule makers see it as a mandatory piece of safety gear. However, you can immediately throw your goggles away and race the rest of the race without them? That is contradictory.

Changing the rule would leave 95% of professional motocross racing alone because how often does a rider toss his goggles if it isn't a mudder? It almost never happens. I remember hearing somebody on Pulp MX (don't remember who or if it was just a caller) but somebody brought up something similar to this topic and this person's response was something along the lines of "Well in a mudder it is just mud that is getting roosted - just dirt and water." I thought to myself, holy crap I hope this guy realizes what he just said and I wondered if it was this level of genius that was ultimately controlling things.

Do you guys really think somebody is going to be out there riding around with absolutely no vision blindly crashing into people because he doesn't want to take 15 seconds to stop and get fresh goggles? C'mon guys, that is classic fear mongering! If goggles weren't mandatory at the start of a race then the same thing could be said about people wanting to change the rule but they are mandatory which proves the necessity as a piece of safety equipment.
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are fear mongering as well. Can you point to an example where an AMA professional racer has had a serious eye injury (career ending?) from throwing their goggles in a mud race? An example in the last 10 years?

I'm all for safety, but this seems silly and over the top. I think energy and more rules could be better spent on safety issues that are far greater then muddy goggles. I doubt you will be too worried about proper mandated eye-wear when you hit a Kawasaki mule parked on the side of the track.

But hey, lets do this for the children. Won't someone think of the poor children!
731chopper
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7/30/2015 9:16am
TXDirt wrote:
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are...
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are fear mongering as well. Can you point to an example where an AMA professional racer has had a serious eye injury (career ending?) from throwing their goggles in a mud race? An example in the last 10 years?

I'm all for safety, but this seems silly and over the top. I think energy and more rules could be better spent on safety issues that are far greater then muddy goggles. I doubt you will be too worried about proper mandated eye-wear when you hit a Kawasaki mule parked on the side of the track.

But hey, lets do this for the children. Won't someone think of the poor children!
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering.

I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important things that should be taking all of the attention and energy right now but I don't think that is happening either. I don't want to turn this into a neck brace thread that always turns in a long argument with people chiming in on both sides but I think that is a perfect example. An independent, third party professional source should be hired to evaluate the different neck brace designs compared to no brace. I think paralysis and death is more important.

Why is making a rider have to wear goggles for the entire race offensive? I still just don't understand that.
MxRewind
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7/30/2015 9:19am
Well the only thing I can think of is the Lone Ranger, pay check-pay check privateer. I'm sure there are a few pros who do it themselves and have no one to hold goggles for them so they are stuck with the ones they start with. It would be more of a danger racing with smudged mud goggles in my opinion. Usually when I pull goggles I either pull the trigger on the rider in front and look down sorta speak using the visor as protection or just back off.
TXDirt
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7/30/2015 9:35am
TXDirt wrote:
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are...
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are fear mongering as well. Can you point to an example where an AMA professional racer has had a serious eye injury (career ending?) from throwing their goggles in a mud race? An example in the last 10 years?

I'm all for safety, but this seems silly and over the top. I think energy and more rules could be better spent on safety issues that are far greater then muddy goggles. I doubt you will be too worried about proper mandated eye-wear when you hit a Kawasaki mule parked on the side of the track.

But hey, lets do this for the children. Won't someone think of the poor children!
731chopper wrote:
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering. I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important...
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering.

I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important things that should be taking all of the attention and energy right now but I don't think that is happening either. I don't want to turn this into a neck brace thread that always turns in a long argument with people chiming in on both sides but I think that is a perfect example. An independent, third party professional source should be hired to evaluate the different neck brace designs compared to no brace. I think paralysis and death is more important.

Why is making a rider have to wear goggles for the entire race offensive? I still just don't understand that.
There is no example of this being an issue to the point that we need a rule to enforce due to safety concerns. I can't think of any time in my last 20 years of being around the sport where someone has sustained an eye injury because they tossed their goggles in a mud race. Name one on the professional level and I'll gladly shut up.

It doesn't make sense to have a rule for something that isn't happening to begin with. No one has been hurt throwing their goggles in a mud race. So why do we need a rule to make sure they keep their goggles on?

I understand your point. An eye injury would suck and yes you are taking some risk in that when you throw your goggles in a mud race. At the same time, these are professionals and I think they should be allowed to make this decision. Frankly, its more strategy then anything. Take goggles or don't take goggles? Ride without goggles and have to ride more cautions or get a new pair and get back on the throttle. Get new goggles at start of race or towards end of race?

If you make it to the professional level then at some point in time you have raced a mud race and tossed your goggles. RC, Stewart, Reed, Tomac, Ward, Johnson, etc, all have tossed their goggles at some point in their climb to the top of the sport. I don't think they are all stupid. I don't recall an eye injury either.
Calhoun117
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7/30/2015 9:41am
I don't even see the need to pit at all..wouldn't be hard at all to have an extra set around your neck so when you toss the mud covered ones you could just slow down or pull off for two seconds and strap the other pair up. Have some sort of nylon bag or something around the extra set to keep them from getting muddy? Why not?
731chopper
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7/30/2015 10:05am
TXDirt wrote:
There is no example of this being an issue to the point that we need a rule to enforce due to safety concerns. I can't think...
There is no example of this being an issue to the point that we need a rule to enforce due to safety concerns. I can't think of any time in my last 20 years of being around the sport where someone has sustained an eye injury because they tossed their goggles in a mud race. Name one on the professional level and I'll gladly shut up.

It doesn't make sense to have a rule for something that isn't happening to begin with. No one has been hurt throwing their goggles in a mud race. So why do we need a rule to make sure they keep their goggles on?

I understand your point. An eye injury would suck and yes you are taking some risk in that when you throw your goggles in a mud race. At the same time, these are professionals and I think they should be allowed to make this decision. Frankly, its more strategy then anything. Take goggles or don't take goggles? Ride without goggles and have to ride more cautions or get a new pair and get back on the throttle. Get new goggles at start of race or towards end of race?

If you make it to the professional level then at some point in time you have raced a mud race and tossed your goggles. RC, Stewart, Reed, Tomac, Ward, Johnson, etc, all have tossed their goggles at some point in their climb to the top of the sport. I don't think they are all stupid. I don't recall an eye injury either.
Mark Blackwell in the early 70s got hit by a rock after removing his goggles in a mud race. That ultimately led to him losing his vision in that eye and it ended his career. Yes, that was a long time ago but it has happened and it could happen again.

You've made a fair point that there haven't been any of these injuries because of a rider taking his goggles off in recent memory so how important is this? I agree there are a lot of things that should take priority over this but I still just find the rule contradictory that it is mandatory you start a race with goggles but not mandatory that you end a race with them.
7/30/2015 1:13pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
I bet if they made that a rule, there would be a lot of innovation within the goggle industry. I bet someone is scrabbling hard right...
I bet if they made that a rule, there would be a lot of innovation within the goggle industry.

I bet someone is scrabbling hard right now to fix this anyway. The first product to market is 75% successful. The second to market is 25% successful

I agree 100%. Make a rule that you cannot go more than 2 laps without eye protection or else you are docked a position for every lap after.

It doesn't matter if it's racing. They're being paid to do this. If a company says that once a guy breaks his safety glasses he cannot get a new pair until his break because it would hurt production, they would see 6 digits in fines real quick.

Innovate goggles, make a safer, quicker pit area I don't know but do something. I'm surprised no one has lost an eyeball yet.
7/30/2015 1:15pm
TXDirt wrote:
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are...
If it "almost never happens" and this won't effect "95% of professional motocross racing" then why exactly do you need a rule for it? You are fear mongering as well. Can you point to an example where an AMA professional racer has had a serious eye injury (career ending?) from throwing their goggles in a mud race? An example in the last 10 years?

I'm all for safety, but this seems silly and over the top. I think energy and more rules could be better spent on safety issues that are far greater then muddy goggles. I doubt you will be too worried about proper mandated eye-wear when you hit a Kawasaki mule parked on the side of the track.

But hey, lets do this for the children. Won't someone think of the poor children!
731chopper wrote:
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering. I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important...
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering.

I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important things that should be taking all of the attention and energy right now but I don't think that is happening either. I don't want to turn this into a neck brace thread that always turns in a long argument with people chiming in on both sides but I think that is a perfect example. An independent, third party professional source should be hired to evaluate the different neck brace designs compared to no brace. I think paralysis and death is more important.

Why is making a rider have to wear goggles for the entire race offensive? I still just don't understand that.
TXDirt wrote:
There is no example of this being an issue to the point that we need a rule to enforce due to safety concerns. I can't think...
There is no example of this being an issue to the point that we need a rule to enforce due to safety concerns. I can't think of any time in my last 20 years of being around the sport where someone has sustained an eye injury because they tossed their goggles in a mud race. Name one on the professional level and I'll gladly shut up.

It doesn't make sense to have a rule for something that isn't happening to begin with. No one has been hurt throwing their goggles in a mud race. So why do we need a rule to make sure they keep their goggles on?

I understand your point. An eye injury would suck and yes you are taking some risk in that when you throw your goggles in a mud race. At the same time, these are professionals and I think they should be allowed to make this decision. Frankly, its more strategy then anything. Take goggles or don't take goggles? Ride without goggles and have to ride more cautions or get a new pair and get back on the throttle. Get new goggles at start of race or towards end of race?

If you make it to the professional level then at some point in time you have raced a mud race and tossed your goggles. RC, Stewart, Reed, Tomac, Ward, Johnson, etc, all have tossed their goggles at some point in their climb to the top of the sport. I don't think they are all stupid. I don't recall an eye injury either.
Wasn't Broc Tickle hit with a rock in the eye just this past weekend? Luckily he's ok but i'm sure it could have been much more serious.
The Rock
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7/30/2015 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 1:35pm
Calhoun117 wrote:
I don't even see the need to pit at all..wouldn't be hard at all to have an extra set around your neck so when you toss...
I don't even see the need to pit at all..wouldn't be hard at all to have an extra set around your neck so when you toss the mud covered ones you could just slow down or pull off for two seconds and strap the other pair up. Have some sort of nylon bag or something around the extra set to keep them from getting muddy? Why not?
Why not?

1) Racers' gloves would be muddy and possibly nylon bag muddy. How are you supposed to put on fresh goggles in this environment?

2) Just slow down and pull off for two seconds? Pull off where? I have a suggestion: Pull off in the Mechanics Area and be handed fresh gloves and goggles then re enter the race. Stopping on the track brings a host of other potential safety issues into the equation and all of them unnecessary given there is a spot specific for pulling off the track.
The Rock
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7/30/2015 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 2:02pm
731chopper wrote:
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering. I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important...
I explained why I didn't think it was fear mongering.

I never said that this should take top priority. I agree that there are more important things that should be taking all of the attention and energy right now but I don't think that is happening either. I don't want to turn this into a neck brace thread that always turns in a long argument with people chiming in on both sides but I think that is a perfect example. An independent, third party professional source should be hired to evaluate the different neck brace designs compared to no brace. I think paralysis and death is more important.

Why is making a rider have to wear goggles for the entire race offensive? I still just don't understand that.
An independent, third party professional source should be hired to evaluate the different neck brace designs compared to no brace. I think paralysis and death is more important.

If we can't make something as basic and common sense as upper body protection you are operating in a fantasy environment thinking an independent 3rd party professional source will EVER be hired to evaluate neck brace designs. And for the record I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing either given all of the contradictory information out there on neck braces.

Also you are not fear mongering. A wise man once said an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
kkawboy14
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7/30/2015 1:36pm
Get out front and be in first the whole time OR slow down and don't get close to anyone.....boom problem solved!

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