MX track advocates

Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/27/2015 9:10am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2015 9:45am
The racing needs to be fun. Track needs to be ready to go! The moto's need to be limited to a certain number so that your not at the races for 3 days or the whole day. No one wants their final moto to be Sunday at 5pm.

The food needs to be better than most tracks provide and the restrooms need to be cleaner in order to bring the girls in. The women do have a say if the family is going or not. This is not a simple problem but it can be solved for some tracks. Those tracks who want to fix their problems need to consider hiring a real manager. Someone who is not just an ex pro motocross rider. Someone who understands marketing, solving problems, and how to run a tight ship!

Some major tracks can't even water their tracks correctly! How can you run a track for 30 years and then not be able to know how to set up your water crew? Those are faults of a track owner.
7/27/2015 9:18am
Battle of Ohio ar CHILITOWN:

Online registration. (For EVERYTHING. gate fee practice fee race fees etc. )

Seperate line for pre entered people. (I rolled in at 840 and was practicing at 0900 on Saturday before the race) didn't wait in sign up for hours upon end.

Transponders- I've been against these forever until now. They allow you to compare how you stack against people in your class and of different lines help from lap to lap.

$15 gate fee all weekend. $30 for a full hook up. Electric and water. And they have "1000. "

Practice was from 9-3 Saturday. QUAD RACING WAS THAT EVENING. No quads on Sunday but they weren't alienated from the even either! Quads pay money too.

Racing 3 lap practice Sunday morning. Gate dropped at 10 sharp. Raced 3 classes. Hour meter went from 1.8 to 4.1 for the entire weekend. Plenty if seat time. I was home with chipotle in my stomach before dark and I drove 4 hours to get to CHILITOWN

The other two rounds are following this format and I'll be there racing them


This is what you need to do in order to pull entrants. if you can't do it, you can't run races and expect to make money.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/27/2015 9:28am
People from Ohio know what's going on! GeorgiePorgie thanks so much for sharing this common sense success story.
7/27/2015 9:45am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2015 9:45am
722 entries I believe for the Chilitown race.

There are many tracks in ohio struggling as well, it's really all on the promoter.

The Shop

Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/27/2015 10:30am
So I have to ask. If we all agree that track problems are caused mostly (not all) by the owners and promoters then how do you help them?

Or are you only planning on helping those that are under pressure from people trying to shut them down because of noise? If so on the noise issue I think bikes need to run sound inserts, AMA needs to lower sound requirements, tracks need to sound test, and the pipe builders need to think about the future of the sport and make everything a lower db. It would be best for the sport if the bikes were not so loud!


Pirate421
Posts
1826
Joined
7/26/2015
Location
USA
7/27/2015 10:38am
Moto810 wrote:
So I have to ask. If we all agree that track problems are caused mostly (not all) by the owners and promoters then how do you...
So I have to ask. If we all agree that track problems are caused mostly (not all) by the owners and promoters then how do you help them?

Or are you only planning on helping those that are under pressure from people trying to shut them down because of noise? If so on the noise issue I think bikes need to run sound inserts, AMA needs to lower sound requirements, tracks need to sound test, and the pipe builders need to think about the future of the sport and make everything a lower db. It would be best for the sport if the bikes were not so loud!


the tracks should crack down on overly loud bikes (Kawasaki) but a lot of times its irresponsible ownership and riders who don't make sure they are keeping their bikes as quiet as possible with new packing and stock silencers etc. and if they really wanted to be responsible they would buy sound concious two strokes haha problem solved!
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/27/2015 11:05am
It would be so simple to improve the sound issue though. Get the AMA, and Manufactures together and say "what is the lowest sound db we can go down to based upon engineering available! Then do it! Everyone will follow. Sure it reduces HP but we have plenty of HP now.

Can anyone tell me the negative in that? The reduction in noise is a great thing and tracks can spot check people even. If your bike is crazy loud you have to run those noise inserts or not ride. Its good for everyone from what I can see.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/27/2015 11:12am
Glad the sound issue surfaced. This is a mission to help tracks that are in danger of closing plus be a resource for any track to contact for assistance for help fighting the good fight.

This is not a mission to make tracks quieter although there is a correlation in many cases. The take away from my reply is I am good with AMA amateur and AMA/FIM sound levels. Not on a mission to make bikes quieter. Been there done that and once was enough.

BTW industry support is key otherwise this won't be a success.
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/27/2015 11:16am
Now that bikes make so much HP why would the industry not be in favor of quieter bikes? KTM and akrapovic are doing big things in that area. This past weekend the KTM factory bikes were much quieter than all the others.

Maybe it is time for the industry to take a major step forward. Hell even I don't like the loud bikes and I love motocross. Two strokes were much quieter.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/27/2015 11:16am
Moto810 wrote:
It would be so simple to improve the sound issue though. Get the AMA, and Manufactures together and say "what is the lowest sound db we...
It would be so simple to improve the sound issue though. Get the AMA, and Manufactures together and say "what is the lowest sound db we can go down to based upon engineering available! Then do it! Everyone will follow. Sure it reduces HP but we have plenty of HP now.

Can anyone tell me the negative in that? The reduction in noise is a great thing and tracks can spot check people even. If your bike is crazy loud you have to run those noise inserts or not ride. Its good for everyone from what I can see.
The good news is the AMA and FIM have already done their jobs by giving us realistic and obtainable sound limits. Won't be a drop in FIM sound until 2019 then 2020 the 2 db lower limit 112 db will hit AMA/FIM SX also.

It is up to us to keep are silencers and mufflers repacked. The funny thing is it is the cheapest horsepower and torque money can buy.
Cygnus
Posts
14845
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO, USA
7/27/2015 11:20am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2015 11:21am
I bought a cheap DB meter for my place. It's a scosche and think it was about 40$. I can tell when a bike is excessive when I'm sitting in the house and have and will go out and let guys know that I need to do a quick sound check for them and let em know what the DB's are and to make sure to repack or get it quieted down before they come back. Dosnt happen as often as ya think. But when it does it's almost always a Kawasaki.Used to tell people about the DB dawg for an option. Anyone know if they are still made?
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/27/2015 11:41am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2015 11:42am
Unknown about db Dawg availability. I would ask those Kawi riders if they've ever considered getting a slip on? Also ask your riders if they use a wash plug? Keeping packing dry will extend the service interval.

Slip on mufflers make a lot of sense especially if you've bought a used bike with OEM can. Why not start off with fresh packing and have a muffler that you can easily put a spark arrestor and/or sound insert in?

What blows my mind is the people that spend $100 plus to put a spark arrestor on a stock muffler with worn packing.
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/27/2015 5:33pm
In order to force riders to have good packing and good mufflers they will need to have the threat of a test. Even at open practice. Once this takes places people will start showing up prepared with the low noise inserts in. It has to be forced though because riders alone won't do it. This is motocross ya know and many riders just don't give a sh*t!
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/27/2015 7:57pm
Knowledge is power and people like being educated more than they like being threatened.. MXA did an article back in 2007 showing the merits of a repack which is 1.9 hp gain between 7K and 8K RPM and a foot pounds of torque across the powerband

Maybe this performance adding component of a repack has gotten lost amongst the noise no pun intended and needs to be rebroadcast to the masses?

On the tracks in trouble subject I have some ideas I wanted to get feedback on pertaining to the tracks that have been discussed In this thread. Will write more when I'm on my pc later
Johnny Depp
Posts
6433
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
7/27/2015 8:26pm
Way too many classes kill participation due to waiting time and lack of saddle time.

Fill up the damn starting gates, use transponders and put riders the same speed on the track at the same time.

Start on time. Stay on schedule.
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/27/2015 8:54pm
Way too many classes kill participation due to waiting time and lack of saddle time. Fill up the damn starting gates, use transponders and put riders...
Way too many classes kill participation due to waiting time and lack of saddle time.

Fill up the damn starting gates, use transponders and put riders the same speed on the track at the same time.

Start on time. Stay on schedule.
Right! Of course there are plenty of sand baggers but the real problem is to many classes. I hate going to a race and seeing 30+ motos for the day. I am not talking about LL or some other big race. I am talking about your average weekend race. Tracks and promoters think that more classes mean more riders and they are wrong. Less classes equal more riders, full gates, and better track conditions for everyone.

Tracks need to look into making money in other ways. Wash racks, showers, food, and tire changing can all help tracks make a few extra bucks! I am not a fan of the participation trophy handouts. The riders and their families are willing to pay for a better experience.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/28/2015 1:14am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2015 1:41am
moto810 How many riders typically when there are 25 to 30 motos? Do they double gate motos
to speed the program up?

Regardless there are a few common denominators so let's start with the easiest stuff to fix and move on from there. No money required either to split racing programs up for places that are fortunate enough to have enough racers to warrant having 25 to 30 motos. Some compromising will have to be done but having a morning race program and then an afternoon program would shorten families' time at the track. Track could flip flop the sessions so one weekend Group AM races first and Group PM races in the afternoon but the next week they flip flop.

From the comments in this thread people would be more motivated to race if there was less time commitment so split programs address that issue so next.

Short motos. If you're paying the money required to race it is unacceptable to short change competitors with anything under a fifteen minute moto IMHO. I know at the bigger races this is a challenge but what are we selling here? Sprint racing or MX racing? I'm hoping the split program would allow for longer motos. What do you think?

The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
7/28/2015 1:35am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2015 1:45am
Moto810 wrote:
Good point! If people are going to pay to race they expect a well groomed track and clean toilets! The fee to get into the track...
Good point! If people are going to pay to race they expect a well groomed track and clean toilets! The fee to get into the track is only part of the money people spend. They have travel costs, lodging for some, parts, and food. Those tracks who do not prep or care loose customers. We could make a top 10 list of things a track must do to bring in riders and most still would not do it.
We could make a top 10 list of things a track must do to bring in riders and most still would not do it.

I can't accept that as a true statement and instead process the "most still would not do it" as an assumption/negative thinking. I feel you but the thing about generalizations is they're generally not true.

Let's all work together and build the Top 10 Things required to attract MX racers:

1) Split Programs-Not every track has this issue but for the track owners that do please try this ASAP and racers at the next riders meeting bring up the split program idea instead of enduring another marathon day. Speaking up is better than getting burned out on long race days and bailing on the racing program.

2) End tracks competing against each other ASAP and start series races using these former competitors tracks.

3) Online registration. (For EVERYTHING. gate fee practice fee race fees etc. ) We are moving into the non free zone but can we find out what software Chlllitown is using in Ohio so we can spread this information? Tied into online registration could be separate line for pre entered people. You have no how many times I have thought this after I have gotten up at o dark thirty gone WFO to get to the track then sit in line for 20 to 30 minutes to get into the facility. (thank you GeorgiePorgie for this item!)

4) Longer motos-Nuff said.

5)
7/28/2015 4:03am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2015 4:06am
Locally people don't want longer motos.

"5 laps?! Why can't we do 3, I can't hold on after 2." I hear that at ridrrs meetings or something similar more than I would like to admit.

Split programs really only work if you're splitting quads and bikes. Yea in theory having afternoon and mornin split sounds great. But nobody wants to race the afternoon. People say they do, then never show up.


A lot of this lies on the promoters back:
1. Around 2000 hands took OIR from a cowpath into an awesome facility. Lost their lease and now it's almost dead again. The new promoter had a golden egg that all he needed to do was keep polished.


2. hand racing Promotions took a track that I thought was not salvageable and turned it into an event I never miss. A place called big game raceway. Big game sucked on so many levels. The dirt seemed terrible, I hated everything about it. Then hands come in and prepare it. Come to find out the dirt is awesome, layout great and with 13 gate drops we are out of there by 2-4pm. This weekend hands aren't promoting the big game event. So, I won't be there. That's terrible I know, but If I'm racing I want to get the great product I expect that goes with spending my income on....

Plus successful promoters around ohio are offering free classes to draw in new people or just to draw people to actually race. CHILITOWN did this by allowing A riders free entry and a 50cc class free as well. Gate fees for active military were free. Also the U.S. army sponsored the first battle round. Getting decent sponsors helps.


Wasn't the state of moto terrible in California and then transworld boosted the local race scene by promoting an awesome series ? From what I understand the entries exponentially grew at these tracks involved.....?
Johnny Depp
Posts
6433
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
7/28/2015 6:31am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2015 6:35am
Classes should be something like this based on the best lap after open practice:

Race 1. (10 laps) Best times + 10% (top 20 times)

Race 2. (8 laps) Lap times from 80-90% of the best (times 21-40)

Race 3. (6 laps) Lap times from 70-80% of the best (times 41-60)

Race 4. (4 laps) Lap times from 60-70% of the best (times 61-80)

Race 5. (2 laps) Lap times from 50-60% of the best (times 81-100)

If you have more riders the %'s could be changed. Each class has a full gate regardless, adjust the cutoff's.

No need for age and 2/4 stroke and CC classes including mini's.

Way more fun racing with someone your speed. Sandbaggers easily bumped.
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/28/2015 9:19am
Moto810 wrote:
Good point! If people are going to pay to race they expect a well groomed track and clean toilets! The fee to get into the track...
Good point! If people are going to pay to race they expect a well groomed track and clean toilets! The fee to get into the track is only part of the money people spend. They have travel costs, lodging for some, parts, and food. Those tracks who do not prep or care loose customers. We could make a top 10 list of things a track must do to bring in riders and most still would not do it.
The Rock wrote:
[i]We could make a top 10 list of things a track must do to bring in riders and most still would not do it.[/i] I can't...
We could make a top 10 list of things a track must do to bring in riders and most still would not do it.

I can't accept that as a true statement and instead process the "most still would not do it" as an assumption/negative thinking. I feel you but the thing about generalizations is they're generally not true.

Let's all work together and build the Top 10 Things required to attract MX racers:

1) Split Programs-Not every track has this issue but for the track owners that do please try this ASAP and racers at the next riders meeting bring up the split program idea instead of enduring another marathon day. Speaking up is better than getting burned out on long race days and bailing on the racing program.

2) End tracks competing against each other ASAP and start series races using these former competitors tracks.

3) Online registration. (For EVERYTHING. gate fee practice fee race fees etc. ) We are moving into the non free zone but can we find out what software Chlllitown is using in Ohio so we can spread this information? Tied into online registration could be separate line for pre entered people. You have no how many times I have thought this after I have gotten up at o dark thirty gone WFO to get to the track then sit in line for 20 to 30 minutes to get into the facility. (thank you GeorgiePorgie for this item!)

4) Longer motos-Nuff said.

5)
I am not sure how you don't find my comment true? If it were not true then why are tracks having problems? Tracks simply are not doing the right things as a percentage. Notice your looking to help them by providing solutions of how they can run better thus bring in more riders.

A business is a business and businesses fail because of their leaders! A bad leader of a company can destroy even the best of ideas.

Have you ever heard the saying "you can't fix stupid"? Now imagine trying to teach track owners and promoters to go with your ideas? We have tried it and they simply do not want to change. It is an up hill battle. That is why the AMA and AMA road racing in Daytona as well as the FIM need to make some good moves for the industry.
526sBank
Posts
38
Joined
10/23/2009
Location
Brighton, CO, USA
7/28/2015 7:55pm
lostboy819 wrote:
I think a lot of racers just hung it up and quit racing and riding. Colorado is not a cheap place to live and MX is...
I think a lot of racers just hung it up and quit racing and riding. Colorado is not a cheap place to live and MX is getting more expensive so just fewer riders in general. Still lots of trail riders but no where near the numbers that there used to be. Sad
526sBank wrote:
My son and I quit racing 3 years ago. We still get out every weekend and ride at various tracks around the state and I have...
My son and I quit racing 3 years ago. We still get out every weekend and ride at various tracks around the state and I have seen a drastic decrease in riders over the last 2 years. Most of the track owners that I have spoken with are saying the numbers have been cut in half.
twizzler wrote:
I lived in Boulder from 96-06. I bought a mx bike in 98 after last owning one in 93. I started riding at VDR and continued...
I lived in Boulder from 96-06. I bought a mx bike in 98 after last owning one in 93. I started riding at VDR and continued to ride there until the week I left Colorado. VDR always brought in a good practice crowd 90% of the times I rode there. And I rode there a lot! I did start to notice a downturn in riders around 2005. Several of my riding buddies stopped riding due to marriage and kids/family. However, VDR used to belong to SRAC in which for a longtime their races were split race programs. Kids and youth and Novice raced in the morning. Then pros, intermediate and vets raced the afternoon program or vice versa. For many years that schedule was well liked by everyone at the track. But as more Vets started riding when 4 strokes became popular they also had sons who raced. So in the early 2000's vet racers started to complain that they wanted to race the same 1/2 day as there kid and didn't want to spend all day at the track. So SRAC changed to an all day format. With that the day now became long for every racer. That wasn't well received by some racers, including me. So some of us stopped racing. Sorry to hear that VDR may be closed or sold. But not surprised as the urban sprawl has been heading that way for some time and sooer than later that land will be sold to the highest bidder. Unfortunately it won't be bought my a motocross company or rider.
Sorry it took so long to reply, but I have been out spinning laps at our beloved VDR. It is true that it has been sold and it only has about 2 to 3 weeks of life left. I am going to spend as much time out there as my job and my old body will allow. I have been riding there for nearly 40 years now and it is the track where my son, my niece and my nephew all learned how to ride. It is like watching a close family member take their final breath and I promise to be there until the very end.
526sBank
Posts
38
Joined
10/23/2009
Location
Brighton, CO, USA
7/28/2015 8:14pm
526sBank wrote:
My son and I quit racing 3 years ago. We still get out every weekend and ride at various tracks around the state and I have...
My son and I quit racing 3 years ago. We still get out every weekend and ride at various tracks around the state and I have seen a drastic decrease in riders over the last 2 years. Most of the track owners that I have spoken with are saying the numbers have been cut in half.
The Rock wrote:
Thank you for posting. Could you please share the circumstances that led to you guys quitting three years ago? Glad you're continuing to ride with your...
Thank you for posting. Could you please share the circumstances that led to you guys quitting three years ago? Glad you're continuing to ride with your boy.
Rock,
I haven't forgot about you. See my post above for the reason why it took me so long to reply.

We quit racing three years ago because my son, who was in college at the time, contracted an unknown virus that was shutting down his liver and kidneys. He spent quite some time in the hospital fighting it off and came out of there very weak.He recovered very quickly (because he is young and stubborn) and his strength came back immediately. The one thing he has never got back is his stamina, He has tried a lot of different things and he just seems to hit a brick wall when it comes to stamina. He still wants to earn his A plate so we will return if that can get sorted out.

Right now we just enjoy going out to the tracks and spin some laps at our own leisure. Get there when we want, ride as much as we want and leave when we want, Ridin' dirt bikes with your son, it don't get any better than that!
7/28/2015 9:33pm
There is nothing better than VDR when the track has been prepped, you could bend corners so hard that you could drag your bars and not lose traction. I still have my VDR class champion VIP card so I never had to pay gate fees from 1990 on and Pete told me never to lose it because there were very few out there so I laminated it and keep it safe. There were some years that the only races I would run were the VDR races or as the old timers like me call it Berthoud.Smile
Cygnus
Posts
14845
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO, USA
7/28/2015 9:54pm
lostboy819 wrote:
There is nothing better than VDR when the track has been prepped, you could bend corners so hard that you could drag your bars and not...
There is nothing better than VDR when the track has been prepped, you could bend corners so hard that you could drag your bars and not lose traction. I still have my VDR class champion VIP card so I never had to pay gate fees from 1990 on and Pete told me never to lose it because there were very few out there so I laminated it and keep it safe. There were some years that the only races I would run were the VDR races or as the old timers like me call it Berthoud.Smile
Sad to hear it's gonna be gone. I was just going through my old wallet and found my lifetime member card. I was always told don't lose it cause they don't make replacements. Lol

I may have to make a trip up before it's completely done. I was actually thinking i'd do a couple of the HS races this fall. What a drag.
mx510
Posts
1993
Joined
2/26/2011
Location
Gig Harbor, WA, USA
7/28/2015 10:10pm
There is a turn key, ready to go, AWESOME track for sale right now here in WA, Burnt Ridge . The track is about an hour and 45 minutes south of seattle. Its a great location, just need a MX buyer. The place is one of the best up here when prepped correctly.
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/28/2015 11:15pm
mx510 wrote:
There is a turn key, ready to go, AWESOME track for sale right now here in WA, Burnt Ridge[embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOlbBBunGEo[/embed]. The track is about an hour and...
There is a turn key, ready to go, AWESOME track for sale right now here in WA, Burnt Ridge . The track is about an hour and 45 minutes south of seattle. Its a great location, just need a MX buyer. The place is one of the best up here when prepped correctly.
BR is a good track for sure but its a bit of a long drive and has to compete with Washougal, Mountain View, PIR, and about 3 or 4 other tracks in the area. I think that is the issue but not 100% as I am new to the area. Location is everything just about. WA and OR have a bunch of good tracks though!
loftyair
Posts
2907
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA, USA
7/29/2015 8:43am
I know most pros dislike local and even bigger races because too little laps. Pros should do at least 20 min. plus 2. Intermediate 15 min. or so. The rest of us 5 laps is good, and even less for the 50cc bikes.
Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV, USA
7/29/2015 3:29pm
Here is one thing that needs to change.

I recently signed up online for a race two week in advance. One week before the race I found out I could not go to the race and I contacted the track via email to ask for a refund or to see if they could just save my money for the next event. The reply I got was "NO". Nothing else other than "NO".


Now who is going to pay in advance if they refuse to give you a rain check or a refund? Not this guy! Advance signup can help the tracks and the riders but if you can't get a refund then it won't ever work.
Suns_PSD
Posts
989
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Austin, TX, USA
7/29/2015 4:31pm
Way too many classes kill participation due to waiting time and lack of saddle time. Fill up the damn starting gates, use transponders and put riders...
Way too many classes kill participation due to waiting time and lack of saddle time.

Fill up the damn starting gates, use transponders and put riders the same speed on the track at the same time.

Start on time. Stay on schedule.
Bingo!

Post a reply to: MX track advocates

The Latest