States cannot ban same sex marriage

the_wood109
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6/29/2015 4:57am
That is complete bullshit. The actual number is less than 4%. http://www.tvguide.com/news/glaad-lgbt-characters-1071960/ Also, you seem to be worried that TV characters will somehow make you gay...
That is complete bullshit. The actual number is less than 4%.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/glaad-lgbt-characters-1071960/

Also, you seem to be worried that TV characters will somehow make you gay. Perhaps you are already gay, and just scared to admit it.

In fact, all of the evidence that we do have indicates that gay people do not have a choice about their sexual orientation. You seem to be sure of your self, so I would assume that you have some evidence that shows that there is a choice.

Nevermind, you're an illiterate redneck. You're a fucking moron.
borg wrote:
I don't agree with HB on this issue but why do you have to be such a prick about it?
That's nothing compared to the things hillbilly has said about me on multiple occasions. Also, its true.
kongols
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6/29/2015 6:46am
Just read a funny joke in russian, so excuse me if it doesn't sound that good in english

-Any minute now we will defeat gays and then we'll rise from our knees as a nation.
- Why are you fighting gays standing on your knees?
BigAl
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6/29/2015 6:04pm
So, is being gay a choice or a genetic disorder?
borg
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6/29/2015 6:49pm
BigAl wrote:
So, is being gay a choice or a genetic disorder?
Are those my only 2 choices?

The Shop

BigAl
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6/29/2015 6:59pm
BigAl wrote:
So, is being gay a choice or a genetic disorder?
borg wrote:
Are those my only 2 choices?
Certainly not, share your theory
borg
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6/29/2015 7:59pm
I'll give it a try. Bear in mind that I'm winging it here. Men are different from women in that we are basically sexual predators. We have a drive that focuses on the visual. I cant imagine having the same attraction to a man that I do with a woman. I could decide to suck a cock but it wouldn't change my sexual drive towards women. Gay men have the same drive but it's towards other men instead of women. So no, it's not a choice. To say then that it's a genetic disorder implies that one is normal and one is not. Was Mozart a genetic disorder? He was certainly rare but a disorder? No.

Women, however, are quite different. I never knew one that wasn't 2 shots of tequila away from going downtown to do some shopping. If you catch my drift.
BigAl
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6/30/2015 8:30am
Everyone is different genetically, some are more gifted at things or possess athletic abilities that others do not have. I don't think you can confuse a drunken "perversion" (for lack of a better word) with someones day to day lifestyle. A lot of people say/do things drunk or under the influence that they would not do sober.

You will never hear anyone mention that it is a genetic disorder because they don't want to be placed in the same "genetic disorder" class as say downs syndrome or something else. You will hear it called "lifestyle" which implies it is a choice, which I don't believe it is.

71Fish
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6/30/2015 8:40am
I use the Andrew Dice Clay model for determining it is not a choice.

"How do you look at another guys hairy ass and say, 'oh, I've got to have that".

There is no way that's a choice.
6/30/2015 10:13am
71Fish wrote:
I use the Andrew Dice Clay model for determining it is not a choice. "How do you look at another guys hairy ass and say, 'oh...
I use the Andrew Dice Clay model for determining it is not a choice.

"How do you look at another guys hairy ass and say, 'oh, I've got to have that".

There is no way that's a choice.
Percentage of women who find a guy's hairy ass attractive: 0
TDeath21
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6/30/2015 6:47pm
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should be able to decide on their own. Theoretically, if I were a state senator, I'd lobby for our state to legalize all marriages as long as they aren't blood related. If I were a U.S. senator, I'd lobby for us as a nation to not legalize all marriages.

I also believe that being gay is a choice. I've worked with children a ton in my career, and never has a 5 year old boy liked another 5 year old boy as more than a friend. They do, however, frequently like 5 year old girls as more than friends. At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

In short, I support marriages between anyone not blood related, but think it should be a state issue instead of a federal issue, and I think people choose to be gay.
71Fish
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6/30/2015 8:18pm
TDeath21 wrote:
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should...
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should be able to decide on their own. Theoretically, if I were a state senator, I'd lobby for our state to legalize all marriages as long as they aren't blood related. If I were a U.S. senator, I'd lobby for us as a nation to not legalize all marriages.

I also believe that being gay is a choice. I've worked with children a ton in my career, and never has a 5 year old boy liked another 5 year old boy as more than a friend. They do, however, frequently like 5 year old girls as more than friends. At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

In short, I support marriages between anyone not blood related, but think it should be a state issue instead of a federal issue, and I think people choose to be gay.
The Constitution is there to protect and ensure rights, not take them away. This was the right decision according to the 14th Amendment.

That same Constitutional protection applies to the 2nd Amendment as well.
benstone
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6/30/2015 8:56pm
Marriage is one of the most powerful symbols we use in our society. Keeping same-sex couples from accessing that symbol by trying to say that civil unions should suffice is the exact same thing as "separate but equal" back in the days of Jim Crow. It was dumb then, it's dumb now.

To give civil unions as a consolation prize to same-sex couples would also continue to legitimize the stigma and second class treatment many folks feel is their right to dish out to gay folks. There's the outright bigotry that would get more traction if we continue to exclude same sex couples from marriage, but there's also this whole religious freedom bullshit people are spouting. If you don't want to provide wedding services to gay people, find another vocation. I hate working on drains so I'll never be a plumber. If you just can't force yourself to sell a cake to Adam and Steve, then go find another business to be in.

I used to cater weddings all the time and I really never gave a shit if the couples were complete assholes or the nicest people I ever met. I cared about the check clearing and trying to do my best job every time. Nobody ever asked me how I FELT about the lifestyle of the couple or their family structure. I am sure I served some couples who beat their kids or embezzled from their work or did all kinds of heinous things. Oddly enough, those things never came up in our planning. Just because the difference with same sex couples is visible, somehow that changes things? I don't get that at all.
SF45
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6/30/2015 8:58pm Edited Date/Time 6/30/2015 9:01pm
Nobody really cares. Only reason you're talking about it is because it's a media driven world and we're all told what to think about at the water cooler. At least, I could care less about who wants to marry who and what the definition of marriage is. And you should think what I think, of course.
6/30/2015 9:44pm
TDeath21 wrote:
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should...
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should be able to decide on their own. Theoretically, if I were a state senator, I'd lobby for our state to legalize all marriages as long as they aren't blood related. If I were a U.S. senator, I'd lobby for us as a nation to not legalize all marriages.

I also believe that being gay is a choice. I've worked with children a ton in my career, and never has a 5 year old boy liked another 5 year old boy as more than a friend. They do, however, frequently like 5 year old girls as more than friends. At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

In short, I support marriages between anyone not blood related, but think it should be a state issue instead of a federal issue, and I think people choose to be gay.
I also believe that being gay is a choice. [...] At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

Not many people have the guts to say that these days. If you were a politician, that would end your career.

I am a woman, and am much more attracted to women than men, and I was not born that way, it developed when I was nearly 20 after many years of being a fitness fanatic in the gym. I worked hard 4 days a week to develop my physical appearance in certain ways. I came to find those physical characteristics attractive. I am not attracted to anyone, male or female, who is not visibly fit. My own actions led to this preference. That is why I find it difficult not to chime in every time this topic comes up on vital. I've never gotten into this topic before because people are going to start thinking I have a crew cut and wear bowling shirts when nothing could be further from the truth.

Back to your post.... I have to say that, in my opinion, whether being gay is a choice or not a choice is a false dichotomy.

Commonly asked: "Is being gay a choice?"

The real question: "Are gay people born gay?"

Maybe an example will illustrate why the questions are different:

Fact: liking dirt bikes is not a choice In all honestly, how many vitards sat down one day and stated "I hereby choose to enjoy riding dirt bikes." Of course you didn't say that. You simply tried it and you liked it and you kept doing it. Of course it wasn't a "choice". Now, using the logic of the gay agenda, the fact that your enjoyment of dirt biking wasn't a choice must mean you were born liking dirt bikes. You must have the dirt bike gene.

As laughable as this is, this is the logic that is being used to justify fundamental changes in our society.

I did not CHOOSE to like Toyotas, dislike GM products, hate hockey and be a neat freak. That does not mean I was born this way.
BigAl
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7/1/2015 11:48am
TDeath21 wrote:
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should...
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should be able to decide on their own. Theoretically, if I were a state senator, I'd lobby for our state to legalize all marriages as long as they aren't blood related. If I were a U.S. senator, I'd lobby for us as a nation to not legalize all marriages.

I also believe that being gay is a choice. I've worked with children a ton in my career, and never has a 5 year old boy liked another 5 year old boy as more than a friend. They do, however, frequently like 5 year old girls as more than friends. At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

In short, I support marriages between anyone not blood related, but think it should be a state issue instead of a federal issue, and I think people choose to be gay.
71Fish wrote:
The Constitution is there to protect and ensure rights, not take them away. This was the right decision according to the 14th Amendment. That same Constitutional...
The Constitution is there to protect and ensure rights, not take them away. This was the right decision according to the 14th Amendment.

That same Constitutional protection applies to the 2nd Amendment as well.
Does not apply to the second amendment. Every state/county/city imposes its own firearms laws at will. so many laws in fact the BATFE publishes a big purple book with the state by state laws in it.

hvaughn88
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7/1/2015 12:37pm
SF45 wrote:
Nobody really cares. Only reason you're talking about it is because it's a media driven world and we're all told what to think about at the...
Nobody really cares. Only reason you're talking about it is because it's a media driven world and we're all told what to think about at the water cooler. At least, I could care less about who wants to marry who and what the definition of marriage is. And you should think what I think, of course.
Ding, Ding, Ding
the_wood109
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7/1/2015 3:44pm
[b]I also believe that being gay is a choice. [...] At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary...
I also believe that being gay is a choice. [...] At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

Not many people have the guts to say that these days. If you were a politician, that would end your career.

I am a woman, and am much more attracted to women than men, and I was not born that way, it developed when I was nearly 20 after many years of being a fitness fanatic in the gym. I worked hard 4 days a week to develop my physical appearance in certain ways. I came to find those physical characteristics attractive. I am not attracted to anyone, male or female, who is not visibly fit. My own actions led to this preference. That is why I find it difficult not to chime in every time this topic comes up on vital. I've never gotten into this topic before because people are going to start thinking I have a crew cut and wear bowling shirts when nothing could be further from the truth.

Back to your post.... I have to say that, in my opinion, whether being gay is a choice or not a choice is a false dichotomy.

Commonly asked: "Is being gay a choice?"

The real question: "Are gay people born gay?"

Maybe an example will illustrate why the questions are different:

Fact: liking dirt bikes is not a choice In all honestly, how many vitards sat down one day and stated "I hereby choose to enjoy riding dirt bikes." Of course you didn't say that. You simply tried it and you liked it and you kept doing it. Of course it wasn't a "choice". Now, using the logic of the gay agenda, the fact that your enjoyment of dirt biking wasn't a choice must mean you were born liking dirt bikes. You must have the dirt bike gene.

As laughable as this is, this is the logic that is being used to justify fundamental changes in our society.

I did not CHOOSE to like Toyotas, dislike GM products, hate hockey and be a neat freak. That does not mean I was born this way.
"I can't find any reason that choice is involved, especially given the fact that I don't have a choice that I'm attracted to other women. I know, I'll change the question!"

That line of thinking is the laughable logic here.

Fact: liking dirt bikes is a choice. It involves multiple layers of choices that change over time as more information comes in. My choices have changed quite drastically over time regarding dirt bikes. The same can be said with which trucks I like. My preference changes based on a pro/con analysis of vehicles. The more you know, the better choice you'll make when buying one.

However, I literally cannot change which gender I'm attracted to. No amount of gay porn, reasoning, logic, or mythology could change that. I literally cannot get aroused by another man.

There is my anecdotal thought process. Does that give me a proper foundation to control who gets married to which gender. No, it doesn't...same as yours. The problem I have is with hard liners that claim their beliefs or experiences are a proper foundation to make that determination. If they really have that ability to determine what is best for society, they better be willing to present a mountain of evidence. Interestingly enough, their foundations usually revolve around magic and superstition. It's always a good day when people stop buying into that farce.
motogeezer
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7/1/2015 4:30pm
TDeath21 wrote:
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should...
While I personally do believe that everyone should have the right to marry whoever they please, I think this is an issue that each state should be able to decide on their own. Theoretically, if I were a state senator, I'd lobby for our state to legalize all marriages as long as they aren't blood related. If I were a U.S. senator, I'd lobby for us as a nation to not legalize all marriages.

I also believe that being gay is a choice. I've worked with children a ton in my career, and never has a 5 year old boy liked another 5 year old boy as more than a friend. They do, however, frequently like 5 year old girls as more than friends. At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.

In short, I support marriages between anyone not blood related, but think it should be a state issue instead of a federal issue, and I think people choose to be gay.
I'm glad to hear that you believe in marriage equality, but you're way off base on homosexuality being a choice.

Yes, five year old boys (who have crushes) have crushes on five year old girls, but some five year old boys just find themselves hanging out with the girls, because they feel more comfortable with them, and some five year old girls feel more comfortable with the boys.

I have a nephew who always spent his time with his girl cousins, and over time, it became obvious that he was gay.

When he was around twelve or thirteen, I asked his mom (my sister) what she thoughtand she damned nearly ripped my head off.

When he graduated college he finally came out of the closet.

Believe me, with two macho older brothers, a mother like my sis, and a lifer Marine for a dad, you don't choose to be gay.

The poor kid was scared to death to tell his folks, but they're good people and they love him unconditionally.
Falcon
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7/1/2015 5:30pm
I'll present you guys with a question: If it's true love, who cares if it was based on an earlier "choice?"
the_wood109
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7/1/2015 6:06pm
Falcon wrote:
I'll present you guys with a question: If it's true love, who cares if it was based on an earlier "choice?"
The people that have been denied the same rights as straight couples care. Plus, the people that believe in "insert holy book" think that the happy same sex couples are leading everyone to doom.

Those people care.

seth505
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7/1/2015 7:19pm
Maybe more tolerant?
seth505
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7/1/2015 7:31pm
I wrote that as a more general statement, havent been readin all the replies
7/1/2015 7:32pm
[i]"I can't find any reason that choice is involved, especially given the fact that I don't have a choice that I'm attracted to other women. I...
"I can't find any reason that choice is involved, especially given the fact that I don't have a choice that I'm attracted to other women. I know, I'll change the question!"

That line of thinking is the laughable logic here.

Fact: liking dirt bikes is a choice. It involves multiple layers of choices that change over time as more information comes in. My choices have changed quite drastically over time regarding dirt bikes. The same can be said with which trucks I like. My preference changes based on a pro/con analysis of vehicles. The more you know, the better choice you'll make when buying one.

However, I literally cannot change which gender I'm attracted to. No amount of gay porn, reasoning, logic, or mythology could change that. I literally cannot get aroused by another man.

There is my anecdotal thought process. Does that give me a proper foundation to control who gets married to which gender. No, it doesn't...same as yours. The problem I have is with hard liners that claim their beliefs or experiences are a proper foundation to make that determination. If they really have that ability to determine what is best for society, they better be willing to present a mountain of evidence. Interestingly enough, their foundations usually revolve around magic and superstition. It's always a good day when people stop buying into that farce.
Your truck analogy is better than the one I chose about liking dirt biking, so let's go with it.

The same can be said with which trucks I like. My preference changes based on a pro/con analysis of vehicles. The more you know, the better choice you'll make when buying one.

These are great points. I like them because they support my argument.

My environment (the information I've read and the mechanics I've spoken to) and my experience with endless repairs to a Sierra work truck had led me to preferring Toyotas over GM trucks.

I do not want to be a Toyota person. In a family of GM owners, it's downright embarrasing. If I could simply choose to prefer GMs, I would. Now it's true that I could go around TELLING people that I think GMs are the best thing ever. That action would be a choice for sure. I could go ahead and BUY a GM. That action would be a choice. But as for my preference.... my environment and experience have convinced me that Toyotas are better. There is no choice involved. Therefore, I remain convinced that preferring Toyotas is not a choice.
the_wood109
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7/1/2015 7:37pm
I'm not better or smarter than anyone else (except hillbilly.) I'm certainly not anti religion (there is another thread in the last few months (or so) in which I explained why banning religion is wrong.)

The problem I have with the pro religion and anti gay marriage people is that they don't have any demonstrable evidence for their claims. They simply wave an old book around (with almost all fictional characters,) and claim that there is some divine law behind it.It's a proposition that is so incredibly silly, it baffles me that there is even a discussion.

I realize that people are offended when I compare their god to the tooth fairy, for example. But there are people that have claimed on this board that their god works every time they ask. I ask for evidence every time, and have yet to even be offered any.
7/1/2015 7:42pm
Well its about frikin time!! :^) Gotta scram quick, I've got an early marnin tomorrow, tt yas all later.



the_wood109
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7/1/2015 8:01pm
Your truck analogy is better than the one I chose about liking dirt biking, so let's go with it. [b]The same can be said with which...
Your truck analogy is better than the one I chose about liking dirt biking, so let's go with it.

The same can be said with which trucks I like. My preference changes based on a pro/con analysis of vehicles. The more you know, the better choice you'll make when buying one.

These are great points. I like them because they support my argument.

My environment (the information I've read and the mechanics I've spoken to) and my experience with endless repairs to a Sierra work truck had led me to preferring Toyotas over GM trucks.

I do not want to be a Toyota person. In a family of GM owners, it's downright embarrasing. If I could simply choose to prefer GMs, I would. Now it's true that I could go around TELLING people that I think GMs are the best thing ever. That action would be a choice for sure. I could go ahead and BUY a GM. That action would be a choice. But as for my preference.... my environment and experience have convinced me that Toyotas are better. There is no choice involved. Therefore, I remain convinced that preferring Toyotas is not a choice.
You are just silly. This whole thing is comical. Your opinions of Toyotas would not change if they didn't function?


The truck stopped running and doing things that you would expect a truck to do. You cant help but be a toyota fan girl, no matter what the circumstance? I worked in a toyota junk yard btw, way back when. I'm not sure what else to say, besides jokes.

You are talking about a confirmation bias. The same thing that everyone has. If toyota trucks fail consistently with the same issues, and you love them regardless, you are delusional.
TerryB
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7/1/2015 8:03pm
Why do so many Hetero guys exhibit strong anti-gay Male sentiments, yet are so turned on by two hot "lesbians"..? Personally, I'm aroused by women who want cock. Silly me...

Wood, don't feel bad, I'm anti-religion, pro-gay rights and pro-gun, (and I like chics that like dicks). Seems there isn't a welcoming Pidgeon-hole for me.
the_wood109
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7/1/2015 8:24pm
I'm just baffled. Somebody that admits that they are attracted to the same sex, just expects the government to save them from themselves. A self proclaimed conservative, no less.
reded
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7/1/2015 8:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2015 8:58pm
I'm anti-gay and anti-religion.

I'm anti-gay because I feel like it is a genetic disorder. If we were meant to be gay, human life would not have been sustained for this long. Therefore, in my mind, I think it's just as queer to see two men fucking as it would be two male dogs fucking. People who feel compassion for the men would no doubt claim that the dogs were a bit askew in their actions.

I'm anti-religion because no one has ever proven that the fictitious characters in that old book were ever real.

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