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-Any minute now we will defeat gays and then we'll rise from our knees as a nation.
- Why are you fighting gays standing on your knees?
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Women, however, are quite different. I never knew one that wasn't 2 shots of tequila away from going downtown to do some shopping. If you catch my drift.
You will never hear anyone mention that it is a genetic disorder because they don't want to be placed in the same "genetic disorder" class as say downs syndrome or something else. You will hear it called "lifestyle" which implies it is a choice, which I don't believe it is.
"How do you look at another guys hairy ass and say, 'oh, I've got to have that".
There is no way that's a choice.
I also believe that being gay is a choice. I've worked with children a ton in my career, and never has a 5 year old boy liked another 5 year old boy as more than a friend. They do, however, frequently like 5 year old girls as more than friends. At some point in their life, they choose to be gay. Usually around middle school. Elementary school children always have crushes on the opposite sex.
In short, I support marriages between anyone not blood related, but think it should be a state issue instead of a federal issue, and I think people choose to be gay.
That same Constitutional protection applies to the 2nd Amendment as well.
To give civil unions as a consolation prize to same-sex couples would also continue to legitimize the stigma and second class treatment many folks feel is their right to dish out to gay folks. There's the outright bigotry that would get more traction if we continue to exclude same sex couples from marriage, but there's also this whole religious freedom bullshit people are spouting. If you don't want to provide wedding services to gay people, find another vocation. I hate working on drains so I'll never be a plumber. If you just can't force yourself to sell a cake to Adam and Steve, then go find another business to be in.
I used to cater weddings all the time and I really never gave a shit if the couples were complete assholes or the nicest people I ever met. I cared about the check clearing and trying to do my best job every time. Nobody ever asked me how I FELT about the lifestyle of the couple or their family structure. I am sure I served some couples who beat their kids or embezzled from their work or did all kinds of heinous things. Oddly enough, those things never came up in our planning. Just because the difference with same sex couples is visible, somehow that changes things? I don't get that at all.
Not many people have the guts to say that these days. If you were a politician, that would end your career.
I am a woman, and am much more attracted to women than men, and I was not born that way, it developed when I was nearly 20 after many years of being a fitness fanatic in the gym. I worked hard 4 days a week to develop my physical appearance in certain ways. I came to find those physical characteristics attractive. I am not attracted to anyone, male or female, who is not visibly fit. My own actions led to this preference. That is why I find it difficult not to chime in every time this topic comes up on vital. I've never gotten into this topic before because people are going to start thinking I have a crew cut and wear bowling shirts when nothing could be further from the truth.
Back to your post.... I have to say that, in my opinion, whether being gay is a choice or not a choice is a false dichotomy.
Commonly asked: "Is being gay a choice?"
The real question: "Are gay people born gay?"
Maybe an example will illustrate why the questions are different:
Fact: liking dirt bikes is not a choice In all honestly, how many vitards sat down one day and stated "I hereby choose to enjoy riding dirt bikes." Of course you didn't say that. You simply tried it and you liked it and you kept doing it. Of course it wasn't a "choice". Now, using the logic of the gay agenda, the fact that your enjoyment of dirt biking wasn't a choice must mean you were born liking dirt bikes. You must have the dirt bike gene.
As laughable as this is, this is the logic that is being used to justify fundamental changes in our society.
I did not CHOOSE to like Toyotas, dislike GM products, hate hockey and be a neat freak. That does not mean I was born this way.
That line of thinking is the laughable logic here.
Fact: liking dirt bikes is a choice. It involves multiple layers of choices that change over time as more information comes in. My choices have changed quite drastically over time regarding dirt bikes. The same can be said with which trucks I like. My preference changes based on a pro/con analysis of vehicles. The more you know, the better choice you'll make when buying one.
However, I literally cannot change which gender I'm attracted to. No amount of gay porn, reasoning, logic, or mythology could change that. I literally cannot get aroused by another man.
There is my anecdotal thought process. Does that give me a proper foundation to control who gets married to which gender. No, it doesn't...same as yours. The problem I have is with hard liners that claim their beliefs or experiences are a proper foundation to make that determination. If they really have that ability to determine what is best for society, they better be willing to present a mountain of evidence. Interestingly enough, their foundations usually revolve around magic and superstition. It's always a good day when people stop buying into that farce.
Yes, five year old boys (who have crushes) have crushes on five year old girls, but some five year old boys just find themselves hanging out with the girls, because they feel more comfortable with them, and some five year old girls feel more comfortable with the boys.
I have a nephew who always spent his time with his girl cousins, and over time, it became obvious that he was gay.
When he was around twelve or thirteen, I asked his mom (my sister) what she thoughtand she damned nearly ripped my head off.
When he graduated college he finally came out of the closet.
Believe me, with two macho older brothers, a mother like my sis, and a lifer Marine for a dad, you don't choose to be gay.
The poor kid was scared to death to tell his folks, but they're good people and they love him unconditionally.
Pit Row
Those people care.
The same can be said with which trucks I like. My preference changes based on a pro/con analysis of vehicles. The more you know, the better choice you'll make when buying one.
These are great points. I like them because they support my argument.
My environment (the information I've read and the mechanics I've spoken to) and my experience with endless repairs to a Sierra work truck had led me to preferring Toyotas over GM trucks.
I do not want to be a Toyota person. In a family of GM owners, it's downright embarrasing. If I could simply choose to prefer GMs, I would. Now it's true that I could go around TELLING people that I think GMs are the best thing ever. That action would be a choice for sure. I could go ahead and BUY a GM. That action would be a choice. But as for my preference.... my environment and experience have convinced me that Toyotas are better. There is no choice involved. Therefore, I remain convinced that preferring Toyotas is not a choice.
The problem I have with the pro religion and anti gay marriage people is that they don't have any demonstrable evidence for their claims. They simply wave an old book around (with almost all fictional characters,) and claim that there is some divine law behind it.It's a proposition that is so incredibly silly, it baffles me that there is even a discussion.
I realize that people are offended when I compare their god to the tooth fairy, for example. But there are people that have claimed on this board that their god works every time they ask. I ask for evidence every time, and have yet to even be offered any.
The truck stopped running and doing things that you would expect a truck to do. You cant help but be a toyota fan girl, no matter what the circumstance? I worked in a toyota junk yard btw, way back when. I'm not sure what else to say, besides jokes.
You are talking about a confirmation bias. The same thing that everyone has. If toyota trucks fail consistently with the same issues, and you love them regardless, you are delusional.
Wood, don't feel bad, I'm anti-religion, pro-gay rights and pro-gun, (and I like chics that like dicks). Seems there isn't a welcoming Pidgeon-hole for me.
I'm anti-gay because I feel like it is a genetic disorder. If we were meant to be gay, human life would not have been sustained for this long. Therefore, in my mind, I think it's just as queer to see two men fucking as it would be two male dogs fucking. People who feel compassion for the men would no doubt claim that the dogs were a bit askew in their actions.
I'm anti-religion because no one has ever proven that the fictitious characters in that old book were ever real.
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