The problem...

mauidex
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6/25/2015 10:47am
It could happen if the promoters and tracks and everyone else involved allowed it..............how did the dash for cash work in AX????

just not alot of confidence as you see here from the paying public............but say maybe 3rd party somehow???

be tough to do in Sx withy all the ticket outlets and things but if there was a will there could be a way as it is said..........be awesome incentive for everyone not on a salary situation Smile
mauidex
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6/25/2015 10:49am
Holigan wrote:
In NASCAR, it is a combination of things. 65% of the television revenue goes to the teams through the purse (which is normally split 50/50 between...
In NASCAR, it is a combination of things. 65% of the television revenue goes to the teams through the purse (which is normally split 50/50 between the team and driver). No real television revenue in SX/MX. And the contingency sponsorships on the front fenders pay a portion of the purse in NASCAR that we never see in SX/MX as it already goes directly to the riders instead of through the purse.
well there is the real problem............getting PAID to be on TV versus PAYING to be on TV..............
motogrady
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6/25/2015 10:50am
Hey, how about this.

Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar.
That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund, which would be divided
Between the guys from, let's say , 11th place to 40th place qualifiers on race day.

Wanda ya say, I'm sure if you really care you'd jump right on this bus.
mauidex
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6/25/2015 10:56am
motogrady wrote:
Hey, how about this. Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar. That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund...
Hey, how about this.

Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar.
That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund, which would be divided
Between the guys from, let's say , 11th place to 40th place qualifiers on race day.

Wanda ya say, I'm sure if you really care you'd jump right on this bus.
and you don't think Vital would want like 75% of that?? Evil

The Shop

motogrady
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6/25/2015 10:58am
motogrady wrote:
Hey, how about this. Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar. That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund...
Hey, how about this.

Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar.
That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund, which would be divided
Between the guys from, let's say , 11th place to 40th place qualifiers on race day.

Wanda ya say, I'm sure if you really care you'd jump right on this bus.
mauidex wrote:
and you don't think Vital would want like 75% of that?? Evil
Heck no, any and every guy on this board would give their time up pro bono to see it gets done.
Why on Earth would anyone want a piece of the pie?
mauidex
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6/25/2015 11:03am
Woohoo Woohoo Laughing Laughing Laughing
WORCSRacer
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6/25/2015 11:09am
I liked this sport a whole lot better in the 70's. Ya Ya to all the young guys who think the sport is better today but truth is it is not. There was far more racing, there were far more events that paid Pro's (particularly local pro's) and I'd be willing to bet more guys made a living in the sport. TV has not panned out for the riders and it has not grown the sport at the participant level. It has however made it more expensive and more exclusive.
Gringoe
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6/25/2015 11:20am
Holigan wrote:
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living? The Series...
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living?

The Series sponsors do not want to pay more money to increase the purse. The Promoters do not want to increase expenses to increase the purse. Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket if it was allocated strictly to “Start Money”?

Between SX and MX, approximately 1,200,000 people attend the races if you believe the numbers reported. If everyone that attended a race was charged an additional $10 per ticket for Start Money, that would total $12,000,000. Assign $8,000,000 to the 450 class for the 40 riders that make the SX night show and the 40 riders that line up at the Nationals. Give each of the forty 450 riders that qualify $6,650 in start money for each race they make. They make all of the SX, MX and MEC, they have made $199,500 in Start Money. It would not save a large team like 22, but between that money and outside sponsorship, the privateers should be able to make every race.

There is $4,000,000 remaining. Same program for the 250 class, but half as much money. The 40 riders that qualify each race receive $3,325 per race.

Under this program, you are not paying every guy that wants to race. The Start Money is for the fastest 40 in each class so that they make a decent living racing SX/MX. Would you pay $10 per ticket to make it happen?
This is the best solution imo
Gringoe
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6/25/2015 11:22am
Holigan wrote:
In NASCAR, it is a combination of things. 65% of the television revenue goes to the teams through the purse (which is normally split 50/50 between...
In NASCAR, it is a combination of things. 65% of the television revenue goes to the teams through the purse (which is normally split 50/50 between the team and driver). No real television revenue in SX/MX. And the contingency sponsorships on the front fenders pay a portion of the purse in NASCAR that we never see in SX/MX as it already goes directly to the riders instead of through the purse.
mauidex wrote:
well there is the real problem............getting PAID to be on TV versus PAYING to be on TV..............
Feld was payed 1 million for this (and maybe next year?) I believe I read.

That is small potatoes I know, but they aren't paying to be on tv anymore (for sx at least, no idea about outdoors).
6/25/2015 11:28am Edited Date/Time 6/25/2015 11:30am
What would injuries and crazy mini parents be like if substantial money was on the line? (cheating, drugs, injuries, worse education) More money, more problems.

The slower guys should just enjoy some time doing the pro thing, then get a real job and continue to ride for fun.

However, charging the guys what they do to race is embarrassing.
mauidex
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6/25/2015 11:39am
Gringoe wrote:
Feld was payed 1 million for this (and maybe next year?) I believe I read. That is small potatoes I know, but they aren't paying to...
Feld was payed 1 million for this (and maybe next year?) I believe I read.

That is small potatoes I know, but they aren't paying to be on tv anymore (for sx at least, no idea about outdoors).
don't pay that close attention so I wasn't aware of that..............well maybe somewhere down the road it could get bigger and Feld will share Laughing
hillbilly
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6/25/2015 11:45am
selling shirts would make the most popular riders,the ones already making money,more money. The others probably wouldnt make much from shirt. I guess a few percent of the shirt sales could go to all riders because the most popular need the rest out there to have someone to race.

can you imagine 15 or 20 riders being on the gate?be like mxgp.
6/25/2015 11:45am
This is why I started my company. Check us out. When you purchase from us you get to choose which team rider you want a portion of the proceeds to go to.
6/25/2015 11:49am
The other issue is that Feld and MX sports dont allow companies like ours, teams like JGR, or riders to sell merchandise with images of dirt bikes at the races. They are in bed with MotoTees and they have the Monopoly.
kkawboy14
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6/25/2015 11:55am
motogrady wrote:
Hey, how about this. Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar. That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund...
Hey, how about this.

Every time a guy posts on Vitalmx they are charged a dollar.
That money would be sent to a central disbursement fund, which would be divided
Between the guys from, let's say , 11th place to 40th place qualifiers on race day.

Wanda ya say, I'm sure if you really care you'd jump right on this bus.
I'm good with that!
kkawboy14
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6/25/2015 11:57am
Holigan wrote:
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living? The Series...
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living?

The Series sponsors do not want to pay more money to increase the purse. The Promoters do not want to increase expenses to increase the purse. Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket if it was allocated strictly to “Start Money”?

Between SX and MX, approximately 1,200,000 people attend the races if you believe the numbers reported. If everyone that attended a race was charged an additional $10 per ticket for Start Money, that would total $12,000,000. Assign $8,000,000 to the 450 class for the 40 riders that make the SX night show and the 40 riders that line up at the Nationals. Give each of the forty 450 riders that qualify $6,650 in start money for each race they make. They make all of the SX, MX and MEC, they have made $199,500 in Start Money. It would not save a large team like 22, but between that money and outside sponsorship, the privateers should be able to make every race.

There is $4,000,000 remaining. Same program for the 250 class, but half as much money. The 40 riders that qualify each race receive $3,325 per race.

Under this program, you are not paying every guy that wants to race. The Start Money is for the fastest 40 in each class so that they make a decent living racing SX/MX. Would you pay $10 per ticket to make it happen?
I would for sure!
mauidex
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6/25/2015 11:59am
while a nice thought and BS that you can't........selling shirts and hats and other promo type stuff isn't going to help alot.

not enough...............it is not Nascar.........not enough people...............most likely why Mototees has to have it all to even make sense out of it.

no, I believe so the guys traveling the circus from 10-15 place to 40 need something more to at least make a living................Ryan Clarks latest interview on RacerX was eye opening Sad
andymoto
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6/25/2015 1:02pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
I liked this sport a whole lot better in the 70's. Ya Ya to all the young guys who think the sport is better today but...
I liked this sport a whole lot better in the 70's. Ya Ya to all the young guys who think the sport is better today but truth is it is not. There was far more racing, there were far more events that paid Pro's (particularly local pro's) and I'd be willing to bet more guys made a living in the sport. TV has not panned out for the riders and it has not grown the sport at the participant level. It has however made it more expensive and more exclusive.
X2. The $100,000 pro purse the Evel Knievel motocross paid out in '74 comes to mind.



KennyT
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6/25/2015 1:24pm
Motofinne wrote:
I have always thought that it's insane that you can't buy an Cairoli, Dungey, Roczen, Villopoto or Stewart jersey replica from the gear companies. Football(soccer) clubs...
I have always thought that it's insane that you can't buy an Cairoli, Dungey, Roczen, Villopoto or Stewart jersey replica from the gear companies. Football(soccer) clubs makes hundreds of millions every year from the new kits, but football is by far the biggest sport in the world but anyway. I find it ridiculous that i have to pay 300+€ for an real Dungey jersey from some guy from ebay when these stupid companies could just make replicas and sell them for 60-90€ and everyone would make more money that way.
For awhile No Fear was selling Pastrana replica jerseys #199 for under $100. I bought a bunch and sold them on EBay for over $300. So anyway I am fessing up to being the ass that ruined that good thing

Not sure if more money n the sport is that great of a thing. The cream always rise to the top and if someone who runs 30th each week has no goal to make a bigger payday then there goes the incentive. Some very weak racing for positions is the result of top guys making huge bucks wether they finish 15th or 5th
mauidex
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6/25/2015 1:30pm
KennyT wrote:
For awhile No Fear was selling Pastrana replica jerseys #199 for under $100. I bought a bunch and sold them on EBay for over $300. So...
For awhile No Fear was selling Pastrana replica jerseys #199 for under $100. I bought a bunch and sold them on EBay for over $300. So anyway I am fessing up to being the ass that ruined that good thing

Not sure if more money n the sport is that great of a thing. The cream always rise to the top and if someone who runs 30th each week has no goal to make a bigger payday then there goes the incentive. Some very weak racing for positions is the result of top guys making huge bucks wether they finish 15th or 5th
couldn't agree more about incentive...........but costing you 100K to be competitive and go to every round, ie: Clark is pretty crazy..............guys that are good enough to make the mains should at least be able to make as much money as their buddy at home depot Whistling
avidchimp
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6/25/2015 1:40pm
Holigan wrote:
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living? The Series...
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living?

The Series sponsors do not want to pay more money to increase the purse. The Promoters do not want to increase expenses to increase the purse. Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket if it was allocated strictly to “Start Money”?

Between SX and MX, approximately 1,200,000 people attend the races if you believe the numbers reported. If everyone that attended a race was charged an additional $10 per ticket for Start Money, that would total $12,000,000. Assign $8,000,000 to the 450 class for the 40 riders that make the SX night show and the 40 riders that line up at the Nationals. Give each of the forty 450 riders that qualify $6,650 in start money for each race they make. They make all of the SX, MX and MEC, they have made $199,500 in Start Money. It would not save a large team like 22, but between that money and outside sponsorship, the privateers should be able to make every race.

There is $4,000,000 remaining. Same program for the 250 class, but half as much money. The 40 riders that qualify each race receive $3,325 per race.

Under this program, you are not paying every guy that wants to race. The Start Money is for the fastest 40 in each class so that they make a decent living racing SX/MX. Would you pay $10 per ticket to make it happen?
Michael, the price of the tickets I buy for the Cali rounds have doubled over the last 10'ish years and NOTHING has really changed as far as payouts go.
KennyT
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6/25/2015 1:41pm
KennyT wrote:
For awhile No Fear was selling Pastrana replica jerseys #199 for under $100. I bought a bunch and sold them on EBay for over $300. So...
For awhile No Fear was selling Pastrana replica jerseys #199 for under $100. I bought a bunch and sold them on EBay for over $300. So anyway I am fessing up to being the ass that ruined that good thing

Not sure if more money n the sport is that great of a thing. The cream always rise to the top and if someone who runs 30th each week has no goal to make a bigger payday then there goes the incentive. Some very weak racing for positions is the result of top guys making huge bucks wether they finish 15th or 5th
mauidex wrote:
couldn't agree more about incentive...........but costing you 100K to be competitive and go to every round, ie: Clark is pretty crazy..............guys that are good enough to...
couldn't agree more about incentive...........but costing you 100K to be competitive and go to every round, ie: Clark is pretty crazy..............guys that are good enough to make the mains should at least be able to make as much money as their buddy at home depot Whistling
Now you must not have ever asked a Home Depot employee for advice. Now those guys have it going on!
And yes...I am just kidding. It makes no sense with the talent it takes to ride like the guys n 40th place but with most sports the money is n the TV package and until a full revamp of the sport happens the TV packages will always be a pay to play deal.

How can a random TV viewer understand that there is a tie in a National Championship round? Dungey/Roczen both go 2-1 and score 47 points each so no ground is made up in the points chase. This sport has done faults that need to be resolved yet everyone wants to keep it "core". Well keeping it core is also going to guarantee only a dozen make a decent living
Ing
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6/25/2015 1:44pm
There are a lot of similarities between moto and MMA/UFC. Before long all the riders will be wearing Reebok uniforms.
Regis
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6/25/2015 1:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/25/2015 2:05pm
There are lots of creative ways for privateers to make extra money. Lots of ideas are shot down though.

Back in 1999 I made a plan. I believe the core of MX fans and SX fans are middle class and I wanted to make their experience at a SX special, all the while sponsoring a rider (myself) they could root for or have a connection with. Some own construction businesses, AIr and heating businesses, you know just middle class fans, not the outside industry sponsors or commercial America.

The plan was simple. Sell a limited number of packages that included sponsorship logos on bike, a pit pass, a hospitality area and I would take the time to walk them around or do whatever I could to introduce them to "the big names" or friends of mine who wouldn't mind. If the day was crazy, then have someone do it for me. Maybe include a jersey. Back then there was Friday practice and it was less hectic. Maybe even let them come to that, to see where the truck was (sometimes a ford ranger), the "hospitality" are was chairs under an easy up most likely. these weekend warriors appreciated the struggle and got to be a part of a not so big name trying to make it. I got the idea because a few times I did it and it was so cool. Once in New Orleans, I crashed bent bars, etc etc... Needed to change gearing and this guy, who I met at the dealership buying race gas the day before who just asked if had a pit pass, was full hands on! "What can I do". Lots was to be done and he actually took my wheel over to get a new tire mounted. In the heat of the moment j realized he took my wheel but didn't take my cash. He paid for a new tire, came back and refused to take money. Hands greasy, he was a little buzzed up.... But he was a part of it and loved it.

My hang up was only being able to purchase two guest pit passes and a mechanics pass. I just wanted to be assured I could PURCHSE an additional 5-7 passes a weekend. No dice. Plus "riders seating" isn't always the best and fills up beyond capacity. I didn't like that. They needed good seats.

Not sure how it is now but With the Internet, message boards and ways to connect to people you don't know... If the promotors would just let the riders get creative, propose a legitimate plan. There is a way to cover expenses and make an everyday fan even more of a fan.

In my case, I wasn't asking for FREE tickets, just the ability to get legitimate pit passes that worked all night and didn't end at 4pm or whatever.

I will say, the ladies at the ama were always super nice and even Denny at feld was super helpful to me as well. But I don't know what the hang up was about this plan. I figured I could charge $250 bucks a ticket, sell 5 a race and have $1250 at the end of the night. Even if I bought the tickets, food, drinks... I would still take home more than I would in purse money.

I still wouldn't trade those years for anything. Half the fun was getting to the next race.

I know JT$ does the fly track walk thin and I think it's $750. It wouldn't have to be that as I know Jason works hard and spends a lot of time at the race doing that. But it could be scaled down and cool.

I did get some people to do this, even when it was in their own dime. But I put the logo on the bike and spent time at the race (as much as possible) and gave people a place to rest, grab a drink, etc.... Guess what? The next year those same people would contact me and offer some cash, just because.
KennyT
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6/25/2015 2:01pm
Regis wrote:
There are lots of creative ways for privateers to make extra money. Lots of ideas are shot down though. Back in 1999 I made a plan...
There are lots of creative ways for privateers to make extra money. Lots of ideas are shot down though.

Back in 1999 I made a plan. I believe the core of MX fans and SX fans are middle class and I wanted to make their experience at a SX special, all the while sponsoring a rider (myself) they could root for or have a connection with. Some own construction businesses, AIr and heating businesses, you know just middle class fans, not the outside industry sponsors or commercial America.

The plan was simple. Sell a limited number of packages that included sponsorship logos on bike, a pit pass, a hospitality area and I would take the time to walk them around or do whatever I could to introduce them to "the big names" or friends of mine who wouldn't mind. If the day was crazy, then have someone do it for me. Maybe include a jersey. Back then there was Friday practice and it was less hectic. Maybe even let them come to that, to see where the truck was (sometimes a ford ranger), the "hospitality" are was chairs under an easy up most likely. these weekend warriors appreciated the struggle and got to be a part of a not so big name trying to make it. I got the idea because a few times I did it and it was so cool. Once in New Orleans, I crashed bent bars, etc etc... Needed to change gearing and this guy, who I met at the dealership buying race gas the day before who just asked if had a pit pass, was full hands on! "What can I do". Lots was to be done and he actually took my wheel over to get a new tire mounted. In the heat of the moment j realized he took my wheel but didn't take my cash. He paid for a new tire, came back and refused to take money. Hands greasy, he was a little buzzed up.... But he was a part of it and loved it.

My hang up was only being able to purchase two guest pit passes and a mechanics pass. I just wanted to be assured I could PURCHSE an additional 5-7 passes a weekend. No dice. Plus "riders seating" isn't always the best and fills up beyond capacity. I didn't like that. They needed good seats.

Not sure how it is now but With the Internet, message boards and ways to connect to people you don't know... If the promotors would just let the riders get creative, propose a legitimate plan. There is a way to cover expenses and make an everyday fan even more of a fan.

In my case, I wasn't asking for FREE tickets, just the ability to get legitimate pit passes that worked all night and didn't end at 4pm or whatever.

I will say, the ladies at the ama were always super nice and even Denny at feld was super helpful to me as well. But I don't know what the hang up was about this plan. I figured I could charge $250 bucks a ticket, sell 5 a race and have $1250 at the end of the night. Even if I bought the tickets, food, drinks... I would still take home more than I would in purse money.

I still wouldn't trade those years for anything. Half the fun was getting to the next race.

I know JT$ does the fly track walk thin and I think it's $750. It wouldn't have to be that as I know Jason works hard and spends a lot of time at the race doing that. But it could be scaled down and cool.

I did get some people to do this, even when it was in their own dime. But I put the logo on the bike and spent time at the race (as much as possible) and gave people a place to rest, grab a drink, etc.... Guess what? The next year those same people would contact me and offer some cash, just because.
That sounds like a great idea Regis. Real fans love to get behind the scenes and that would have been a way to put some decent money in your pockets

I would think there could be a way to make a track walk available for more fans, for a decent price of course. That could generate thousands a race to help out the purse and would not hurt anyone. My god n San Diego one year I was able to do a track walk and as I'm walking thru the whoops a full on fucking street person asked me for some change! I shit you not. I guess he was living in the bowels of the stadium and snuck out and tried to blend in. And this guy stunk like shit and had a nasty attitude. If he gets to walk the track why can't more fans do it? And no it wasn't Jlaw....it really was a bum
mac3-d
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6/25/2015 2:07pm
Motofinne wrote:
Well i collect football shirts. I have about 10 Tottenham(i'm an Tottenham supporter) and about 20 of other teams shirts. And i can guarantee that i...
Well i collect football shirts. I have about 10 Tottenham(i'm an Tottenham supporter) and about 20 of other teams shirts. And i can guarantee that i would buy these MX replica jerseys! But hey, this sport is just so freaking narrow minded.
If you have any Spur(s) shirts send one my way Wink . I have looked for a replica Nagl outfit "Ice one Racing" but Thor just do the bog standard outfit which really looks plain. Also looked on the Ice one Racing site but they don't sell them either, maybe Thor doesn't allow them to print their logo or sponsors on. Needless to say not buying the plain Thor stuff.
mark_swart
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6/25/2015 2:27pm
Holigan wrote:
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living? The Series...
Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket that so that every pro that qualifies for SX and MX could make a decent living?

The Series sponsors do not want to pay more money to increase the purse. The Promoters do not want to increase expenses to increase the purse. Would you pay an extra $10 per ticket if it was allocated strictly to “Start Money”?

Between SX and MX, approximately 1,200,000 people attend the races if you believe the numbers reported. If everyone that attended a race was charged an additional $10 per ticket for Start Money, that would total $12,000,000. Assign $8,000,000 to the 450 class for the 40 riders that make the SX night show and the 40 riders that line up at the Nationals. Give each of the forty 450 riders that qualify $6,650 in start money for each race they make. They make all of the SX, MX and MEC, they have made $199,500 in Start Money. It would not save a large team like 22, but between that money and outside sponsorship, the privateers should be able to make every race.

There is $4,000,000 remaining. Same program for the 250 class, but half as much money. The 40 riders that qualify each race receive $3,325 per race.

Under this program, you are not paying every guy that wants to race. The Start Money is for the fastest 40 in each class so that they make a decent living racing SX/MX. Would you pay $10 per ticket to make it happen?
Holy smokes, can you imagine how different our sport would look if the 40th place 450 guy were taking home $6K-ish as opposed to paying out of the butt just to be there.

Maybe ticket sales would take a hit and set that back a little, but I'm guessing everything else would grow because being a professional racer would be a more viable career path for a lot more people.

As bikes get more expensive, I think it looks bad for the sport when we see rider turnout getting lower and lower. Your idea would fix that problem in short order. Initially it might mean a lot of guys who might not really need to be out there, but over time I think it would mean more guys who actually do.

That is the first viable idea for growing the sport that I have actually heard in a long time. And all for the bargain price of $10...
mjskier
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6/25/2015 2:28pm
There is the exact same discussion is going on about the fact that ski instructing in the US doesn't pay a living wage.
And while I can empathize on some level, I'm not sure where the idea that "you should get paid just because you like doing something" came from.
At the end of the day, MX is a hobby for most of its participants. I'm not sure where the idea that you can make a career out of it came from.

500guy
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6/25/2015 2:42pm
mjskier wrote:
There is the exact same discussion is going on about the fact that ski instructing in the US doesn't pay a living wage. And while I...
There is the exact same discussion is going on about the fact that ski instructing in the US doesn't pay a living wage.
And while I can empathize on some level, I'm not sure where the idea that "you should get paid just because you like doing something" came from.
At the end of the day, MX is a hobby for most of its participants. I'm not sure where the idea that you can make a career out of it came from.

Because by golly real jobs suck.
mauidex
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Location
Haiku, HI US
6/25/2015 2:43pm
mjskier wrote:
There is the exact same discussion is going on about the fact that ski instructing in the US doesn't pay a living wage. And while I...
There is the exact same discussion is going on about the fact that ski instructing in the US doesn't pay a living wage.
And while I can empathize on some level, I'm not sure where the idea that "you should get paid just because you like doing something" came from.
At the end of the day, MX is a hobby for most of its participants. I'm not sure where the idea that you can make a career out of it came from.

really skier...........comparing ski instructor to a professional athlete???? I guess all those guys in football, soccer, basketball, baseball, hockey, F1, Indycar, NASCAR, etc., etc. should all not do any of it because at some point early on "they liked doing it" Shocked

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