Weimer has it right

JonnyDH84
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JonnyDH84 1/19/2015 4:43pm
1/19/2015 4:43pm
Dumb move and unprofessional from chad if you ask me hes supposed to be a veteran of the sport and he acts like a child. Not exactly the clean cut image he goes out of his way to promote with his sponsors especially when he looks back at the video and sees it was a racing incident.
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DonM 1/19/2015 4:44pm
1/19/2015 4:44pm
You guys made up this "racing for position" there is nothing written anywhere that makes that the rule....with that said if there was a smidgen of consistency in any decision that Gallagher/FIM/AMA has ever made please tell me!
One man cannot continue to make every decision in a race situation for Christ's sake, put three people on a committee to make these decisions anything is better than the BS now.....Oh and I agree with Weimer
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Steve 396 1/19/2015 4:51pm
1/19/2015 4:51pm
Who knows where that term comes from but I think it fits pretty good here. Bottom line is Reed went out of his way to do what he did to Trey and too me that is not racing. For the rest of the stuff with the FIM/AMA I am not getting into that.
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DonM 1/19/2015 4:55pm
1/19/2015 4:55pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2015 4:56pm
Steve 396 wrote:
Who knows where that term comes from but I think it fits pretty good here. Bottom line is Reed went out of his way to do...
Who knows where that term comes from but I think it fits pretty good here. Bottom line is Reed went out of his way to do what he did to Trey and too me that is not racing. For the rest of the stuff with the FIM/AMA I am not getting into that.
But it's not a rule, unwritten or written....This wouldn't even be a discussion if there was a consistency in decisions....maybe someone should rent a plane with a banner that says "Gallagher Must Go" to fly around the stadiums...Smile

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jhansen510
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jhansen510 1/19/2015 4:58pm
1/19/2015 4:58pm
Sandberm wrote:
All of a sudden Jake Weimer is the smartest guy in Supercross? Laughing

Whats next, Josh Hansen leads the before race prayer?
I would say that he's at the upper end of the spectrum and I think most would agree!
Crush
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Crush 1/19/2015 5:01pm
1/19/2015 5:01pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2015 5:01pm
Sandberm wrote:
All of a sudden Jake Weimer is the smartest guy in Supercross? Laughing

Whats next, Josh Hansen leads the before race prayer?
jhansen510 wrote:
I would say that he's at the upper end of the spectrum and I think most would agree!
Yep. Any interview with Jake you can tell he actually finished school and maybe more importantly, in school.
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hoppsan 1/19/2015 5:33pm
1/19/2015 5:33pm
Canard went towards the side of the track and showed no intention of racing against Reed for the position (call it willingly surrendering the position if you so will) and Reed still went for contact. Perhaps not a brutal hit, but still contact. I'm a huge fan of Reed, and this will not change that, but if you can't see how this is not the same as "racing rough" then I think (or hope) you're just fooling yourself.

As for the black flag, I think it would have looked better to DQ Reed after the race was over and every aspect of the matter was considered and and thought through, but that's just my opinion.
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Steve 396 1/19/2015 6:01pm
1/19/2015 6:01pm
Steve 396 wrote:
Who knows where that term comes from but I think it fits pretty good here. Bottom line is Reed went out of his way to do...
Who knows where that term comes from but I think it fits pretty good here. Bottom line is Reed went out of his way to do what he did to Trey and too me that is not racing. For the rest of the stuff with the FIM/AMA I am not getting into that.
DonM wrote:
But it's not a rule, unwritten or written....This wouldn't even be a discussion if there was a consistency in decisions....maybe someone should rent a plane with...
But it's not a rule, unwritten or written....This wouldn't even be a discussion if there was a consistency in decisions....maybe someone should rent a plane with a banner that says "Gallagher Must Go" to fly around the stadiums...Smile
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see good hard racing. When it gets dirty is when its over the top for me. Maybe that is subjective between folks and that is real problem. A 3 person panel to make a decision is ok with me.
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Crush 1/19/2015 6:05pm
1/19/2015 6:05pm
Steve 396 wrote:
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see...
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see good hard racing. When it gets dirty is when its over the top for me. Maybe that is subjective between folks and that is real problem. A 3 person panel to make a decision is ok with me.
You want to see good hard racing, yet Reed barely nudged Cannard.

Where is the space there?

Rubbing is racing, and this was barely a graze, let alone a punt.
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Rooster 1/19/2015 6:19pm
1/19/2015 6:19pm
If Cannard wasn't pulling a tear-off when Reed gave him a nudge he would have stayed on the bike and maybe they would have given Reed a warning at most.

However, Reed went out of his way chasing Cannard down well off the racing line to give him a bump and when that bump knocked him to the ground, the referee had no other option than the throw the black flag.

I'm one of Reed's biggest fans, but he deserved what he got. If Cannard stayed up and they both continued then I would be dead set against the penalty, but that's not the way it played out.
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kiwifan 1/19/2015 6:20pm
1/19/2015 6:20pm
Steve 396 wrote:
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see...
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see good hard racing. When it gets dirty is when its over the top for me. Maybe that is subjective between folks and that is real problem. A 3 person panel to make a decision is ok with me.
Crush wrote:
You want to see good hard racing, yet Reed barely nudged Cannard. Where is the space there? Rubbing is racing, and this was barely a graze...
You want to see good hard racing, yet Reed barely nudged Cannard.

Where is the space there?

Rubbing is racing, and this was barely a graze, let alone a punt.
you got your rose tinted glasses on there Crush? :-) But you are very entitled to your own view :-)
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Steve 396 1/19/2015 6:25pm
1/19/2015 6:25pm
Steve 396 wrote:
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see...
I agree there seems to be no consistent rule enforcement in these situations. I don't get to wrapped up in that. I just want to see good hard racing. When it gets dirty is when its over the top for me. Maybe that is subjective between folks and that is real problem. A 3 person panel to make a decision is ok with me.
Crush wrote:
You want to see good hard racing, yet Reed barely nudged Cannard. Where is the space there? Rubbing is racing, and this was barely a graze...
You want to see good hard racing, yet Reed barely nudged Cannard.

Where is the space there?

Rubbing is racing, and this was barely a graze, let alone a punt.
Come on Crush, you are too smart for that. What he did wasn't right and was dirty in my book. Remember, its a subjective view but that's how I see it. I am for rubbing is racing but this is not the same.

Crush
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Crush 1/19/2015 6:25pm
1/19/2015 6:25pm
Go look at my posts on Bowers and Osborne after A1. Was fine then.

Should be fine here.
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jhansen510 1/19/2015 6:27pm
1/19/2015 6:27pm
I don't necessarily disagree with the DQ but it's a shitty deal all around. Smarter move would of been to remount and forget about the 41 til after the race. It ended his shot at his best result of 15! No doubt the next round will be very interesting!
Crush
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Crush 1/19/2015 6:30pm
1/19/2015 6:30pm
Yep, subjective view, which is exactly why an immediate black flag is never the right response.

If Reed had had gone around again and hit Canard again, or hit him at all even, the first was a graaze, then yeah, ok.

But right there even if they come to that decision after the race there should be a process. Why didn't Gallagher instantly black flag Bowers at A1. Osborne hit him twice in the two corners before.

Seems that was subjective. Same circumstance too. Initial contact. Retaliation. Difference?

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DonM 1/19/2015 6:45pm
1/19/2015 6:45pm
Crush wrote:
Yep, subjective view, which is exactly why an immediate black flag is never the right response. If Reed had had gone around again and hit Canard...
Yep, subjective view, which is exactly why an immediate black flag is never the right response.

If Reed had had gone around again and hit Canard again, or hit him at all even, the first was a graaze, then yeah, ok.

But right there even if they come to that decision after the race there should be a process. Why didn't Gallagher instantly black flag Bowers at A1. Osborne hit him twice in the two corners before.

Seems that was subjective. Same circumstance too. Initial contact. Retaliation. Difference?

Come on Crush you should know the Vitard rule....he wasn't racing for position....I've been researching but damned if I can find that in any rulebook.....it seems like everyone on here thinks it is though...
bocephus3000
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bocephus3000 1/19/2015 6:48pm
1/19/2015 6:48pm
I don't agree with Weims here...the issue was Reed retaliated...and to make it worse Canard did not jump into him on purpose and in fact I think Reed was totally wrong to change line is that racing situation...it seems hard for a reasonable person to assume Reed did not know Canard was there...
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bocephus3000 1/19/2015 6:49pm
1/19/2015 6:49pm
I would go far enough to penalize Hanny for retaliating with McElrath from Anaheim 1...I might even ban Hanny permanently...

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Crush
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Crush 1/19/2015 6:51pm
1/19/2015 6:51pm
Seriously though, if you took it to a court of law, they go by rules and actual facts and precedent.

The Bowers Osborne thing would strike it out, at the crux of it there was a move (2 actually), a retaliation, and clearly Gallagher saw it because he went running over there like a lunatic... Why no flag?

Gallagher had already dq'd Reed before and been turned over that night in Phoenix 2010. and as above he didn't rule the same way for fundamentally identical incident 2 weeks prior....

You can't leave it up to someone who's making an on the spot emotional decision, there's way too much invested for a ruling system like that, let alone one that has a proven history of inconsistency.
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DonM 1/19/2015 7:06pm
1/19/2015 7:06pm
Crush wrote:
Seriously though, if you took it to a court of law, they go by rules and actual facts and precedent. The Bowers Osborne thing would strike...
Seriously though, if you took it to a court of law, they go by rules and actual facts and precedent.

The Bowers Osborne thing would strike it out, at the crux of it there was a move (2 actually), a retaliation, and clearly Gallagher saw it because he went running over there like a lunatic... Why no flag?

Gallagher had already dq'd Reed before and been turned over that night in Phoenix 2010. and as above he didn't rule the same way for fundamentally identical incident 2 weeks prior....

You can't leave it up to someone who's making an on the spot emotional decision, there's way too much invested for a ruling system like that, let alone one that has a proven history of inconsistency.
110% agree
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ACBraap 1/19/2015 8:41pm
1/19/2015 8:41pm
DonM wrote:
You guys made up this "racing for position" there is nothing written anywhere that makes that the rule....with that said if there was a smidgen of...
You guys made up this "racing for position" there is nothing written anywhere that makes that the rule....with that said if there was a smidgen of consistency in any decision that Gallagher/FIM/AMA has ever made please tell me!
One man cannot continue to make every decision in a race situation for Christ's sake, put three people on a committee to make these decisions anything is better than the BS now.....Oh and I agree with Weimer
Not just three people to make those de ions, one or more of them needs to be appointed by the riders.

In the myriad of threads on this, almost no one has said Reed shouldn't be penalized. It's the instantaneous call with no means of appeal and the rampant inconsistency that is the issue. That was a gigantic f up by Gallagher. He needs to go IMO.

Really hope Reed comes out with a but patch this week like "FJG".
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ACBraap 1/19/2015 8:44pm
1/19/2015 8:44pm
Sandberm wrote:
All of a sudden Jake Weimer is the smartest guy in Supercross? Laughing

Whats next, Josh Hansen leads the before race prayer?
jhansen510 wrote:
I would say that he's at the upper end of the spectrum and I think most would agree!
Crush wrote:
Yep. Any interview with Jake you can tell he actually finished school and maybe more importantly, in school.
Hell yeah, and it's probably a weakness on the track. IME, the fastest guys usually aren't the brightest ones. IQ that allows one to realize the consequence of missing a jump combination can be a disadvantage.
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mjskier 1/19/2015 9:06pm
1/19/2015 9:06pm
I hope SX isn't going to turn into something like European soccer, where people fall onto the ground and wriggle in agony because somebody just breathed on them.
That black flag just gives you a recipe for sending other riders off: Squeeze them in a turn and then hit a tuff block in slowmo at the next corner.

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Crush 1/19/2015 9:11pm
1/19/2015 9:11pm
ACBraap wrote:
Hell yeah, and it's probably a weakness on the track. IME, the fastest guys usually aren't the brightest ones. IQ that allows one to realize the...
Hell yeah, and it's probably a weakness on the track. IME, the fastest guys usually aren't the brightest ones. IQ that allows one to realize the consequence of missing a jump combination can be a disadvantage.
99% sure I've heard or read an interview with Jake where he pretty much said just that.

There are definitely other guys who don't think as much...
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jemcee 1/20/2015 2:51am
1/20/2015 2:51am
the thing that annoys me is... Reed has done this kinda move twice, and the time I did want the other guy to go down and lose spots they didn't and the time I didn't they did.
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jemcee 1/20/2015 2:55am
1/20/2015 2:55am
oh and I remember a footballer over here (Paul Gallen) used the same argument after he got heavily punished for getting in a fight in a State of Origin game, he said 'yep punish me but I'd better not see it in any advertisement or pump up piece'

they've both got a point
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fidiot 1/20/2015 3:07am
1/20/2015 3:07am
rcannon wrote:
Was this part of the quote real? Or, invented. "So with the concern that there could be more retribution around the race track, ala Jason Lawrence...
Was this part of the quote real? Or, invented.

"So with the concern that there could be more retribution around the race track, ala Jason Lawrence and Ryan Dungey in qualifying a couple of years ago, that’s when he decided to take out the black flag, which we support."

If this is the way it works, I think there's 4-5 guys who maybe should not even be allowed to start? Can you really pre-punish anyone for what they might do?

Apparently Gallagher has a crystal ball, and can see into the future. Anyone have his address? I'd like to steal it and become a billionaire by betting on football games.
mb
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mb 1/20/2015 6:54am
1/20/2015 6:54am
Not sure why the black flag. Reed got landed on, and tossed Canard an elbow right after the fact. If Trey had both hands on the bars he would probably have stayed on the bike. The way I interpreted it was Reed saying "now we're even, lets go racing". I believe if Trey had stayed on the bike (and wasn't having to mess with his setup) that anything that happened after the two incidents would have been good clean "for position" racing. I don't know about you guys, but if I was Reed and had to wait a couple laps to catch the guy my anger/frustration would be at a boiling point.

This season seams to have so much emphasis on the contact, bumping bars, etc.. that the black flag thrown in the middle of the race is hilarious IMO.

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