To: Dave O.

toroP
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1/19/2015 8:32am
Exactly how many championship points did this costed him? Smile
Grieby54 wrote:
Does it matter? Reed only wins when the other top riders are out, and this year there are too many fast guys out there. Reed didn't...
Does it matter? Reed only wins when the other top riders are out, and this year there are too many fast guys out there. Reed didn't have a chance from the start.
Funny, so in 2004, who was the best in the world …………. RC … maybe …..
So that makes CR the 2nd best sx rider in the world… in the world …... the guy who last year ran down and gapped RV, JS, KR ……….. the guy is one of the greats and you don't like him, we get it. It's OK,he won't be around forever.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 8:32am
Grieby54 wrote:
"If you're in front you can go where you want" - I'd love to hear what all the pros think about cross jumping. My guess is...
"If you're in front you can go where you want" - I'd love to hear what all the pros think about cross jumping. My guess is that they don't take it too lightly.

But, I'll remember that next time I'm out on the track. If a local pro is about to pass me over a jump, I'll simply cross jump to ensure that he stays behind me.
toroP wrote:
I think calling this cross jumping is weak. It's not a straight line triple or double, it's part of a tight "S" section, and inside, inside...
I think calling this cross jumping is weak. It's not a straight line triple or double, it's part of a tight "S" section, and inside, inside is one of a few ways to ride that section.
Did Reed leave the ground (aka jump)?
On which side of the jump did he leave the ground?
On which side of the landing did he return to the ground?

Based on the answers to the above questions, I believe we can agree that what Reed did was the very definition of cross jumping. While I agree with you that inside-inside is one of a few ways to ride that section, I would add that it's one of a few ways to ride that section while you are not side-by-side with another rider. When you are within that proximity of another rider, you hold your line in the air, period.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 8:34am
toroP wrote:
Funny, so in 2004, who was the best in the world …………. RC … maybe ….. So that makes CR the 2nd best sx rider in...
Funny, so in 2004, who was the best in the world …………. RC … maybe …..
So that makes CR the 2nd best sx rider in the world… in the world …... the guy who last year ran down and gapped RV, JS, KR ……….. the guy is one of the greats and you don't like him, we get it. It's OK,he won't be around forever.
He is definitely one of the greats of the sport. He has two championships to his credit, and he beat every eligible rider to earn them. I mainly said that to stir up the Reed fan-boys.

That being said, you are correct - I greatly dislike Chad after briefly becoming a fan for a few years. Looking forward to him not being around forever. I've never cheered so loudly as I did when his bike blew up at Daytona in '08 and when he got black flagged last weekend.
Agfracing
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1/19/2015 8:38am
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed the track into their line. get up like a little bitch, throw my hands in the air. Then as we get going, Im going to go out of my way, let another rider pass me and punt you off the track.

Canard was along the bails in the first incident. Where should he have gone? He held a 100% straight line through there.

The Shop

1/19/2015 8:39am
Zycki11 wrote:
I am not talking about cross jumping like Alessi. Chad had a bike length over Trey. This entitles him to shut down the inside corner. If...
I am not talking about cross jumping like Alessi. Chad had a bike length over Trey. This entitles him to shut down the inside corner. If he was almost dead even hitting the jump and crosses into him? Different story. As for the gamblings of Roczen and dungey. Neither one of them take big risks like canard. They also had for room because at those moments, Andrew and chad left the inside open. That does not mean they forced there way into the inside by gambling the rider in front was staying wide.
" As for the gamblings of Roczen and dungey. Neither one of them take big risks like canard."

Please prove this statement. Provide proof of this history of big risks he has taken. You need to learn the difference between opinion and fact son.

On the other hand, there is ample history of Reed being the biggest cry baby in the sport.

Seems like you may be just another Reed slurper.
toroP
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1/19/2015 8:42am
Mr. Knobby wrote:
Lots of Reed slurpers on Vital. He must have more fans than any other mid-pack rider out there.
But Reed is magical! The only guy who can ride mid pack and find himself with 2 titles and 43 wins. I bet Dungey, Milsaps, Canard etc. wish they knew that trick!

So, for the record, if 'Mid-Pack"Reed doesn't get hurt, do you think he'll make the podium this year?
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 8:42am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2015 8:44am
Grieby54 wrote:
"If you're in front you can go where you want" - I'd love to hear what all the pros think about cross jumping. My guess is...
"If you're in front you can go where you want" - I'd love to hear what all the pros think about cross jumping. My guess is that they don't take it too lightly.

But, I'll remember that next time I'm out on the track. If a local pro is about to pass me over a jump, I'll simply cross jump to ensure that he stays behind me.
Zycki11 wrote:
I am not talking about cross jumping like Alessi. Chad had a bike length over Trey. This entitles him to shut down the inside corner. If...
I am not talking about cross jumping like Alessi. Chad had a bike length over Trey. This entitles him to shut down the inside corner. If he was almost dead even hitting the jump and crosses into him? Different story. As for the gamblings of Roczen and dungey. Neither one of them take big risks like canard. They also had for room because at those moments, Andrew and chad left the inside open. That does not mean they forced there way into the inside by gambling the rider in front was staying wide.
Perfect. So if Alessi has a bike-length over Roczen going over a triple, he has the right to go ahead and move into Ken's line, even if Ken is scrubbing the triple, therefore carrying more momentum than Alessi and likely to pass him over the triple? The mid-air collision will be justified with "but Alessi was in front of him!"

Glad you're not out there on the track with them. There would be a lot more wrecks. Chad and Trey were side-by-side in the corner.

Do me a favor. Watch this clip and pay special attention from 0:04 to 0:07. At what point is Chad completely clear of/ahead of Trey? If someone is directly next to me through the corner, I'm going to go ahead and not jump into his line.
dawg51
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1/19/2015 8:50am
It is simply two lines coming together. This was one of the spots on the track that Trey used for passing. I'm sure he set that up in his mind early when he caught Reed that this is where he could get him. However, with Reed being passed in this spot previously, he probably knew to shut that inside line down if someone got close. Notice the corner right before this jump, Reed takes the high line with Canard right next to him on the outside. I'm sure he thought Canard was not going to jump inside being that high up the turn. It was a bold move that did not work out. I love that Canard is crafty like this on the track. Picks his spots where others don't. Just a mis-judgement as he said the lap before, Reed went outside.
As for what happened next with Reed, not a fan of that type of riding! At that point, he is riding angry at another rider (which is understood for being taken out) and nothing good comes from that. You gotta keep your cool and race forward. Ride angry at the track not another rider. Take it up with him after the race. I didn't think the black flag was necessary but maybe a situation where they pull him off for a lap to put him a lap down. The more I thought about that type of penalty I began thinking what if Reed caught Canard again? Would there be more retaliation?
toroP
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1/19/2015 9:13am
toroP wrote:
Funny, so in 2004, who was the best in the world …………. RC … maybe ….. So that makes CR the 2nd best sx rider in...
Funny, so in 2004, who was the best in the world …………. RC … maybe …..
So that makes CR the 2nd best sx rider in the world… in the world …... the guy who last year ran down and gapped RV, JS, KR ……….. the guy is one of the greats and you don't like him, we get it. It's OK,he won't be around forever.
Grieby54 wrote:
He is definitely one of the greats of the sport. He has two championships to his credit, and he beat every eligible rider to earn them...
He is definitely one of the greats of the sport. He has two championships to his credit, and he beat every eligible rider to earn them. I mainly said that to stir up the Reed fan-boys.

That being said, you are correct - I greatly dislike Chad after briefly becoming a fan for a few years. Looking forward to him not being around forever. I've never cheered so loudly as I did when his bike blew up at Daytona in '08 and when he got black flagged last weekend.
"I've never cheered so loudly " What a bummer. Too bad your loudest cheer isn't FOR someone. As stated, Reed won't be around much longer and it'll really suck if he puts some races together like last year.
1/19/2015 9:24am
toroP wrote:
But Reed is magical! The only guy who can ride mid pack and find himself with 2 titles and 43 wins. I bet Dungey, Milsaps, Canard...
But Reed is magical! The only guy who can ride mid pack and find himself with 2 titles and 43 wins. I bet Dungey, Milsaps, Canard etc. wish they knew that trick!

So, for the record, if 'Mid-Pack"Reed doesn't get hurt, do you think he'll make the podium this year?
So, for the record, the official hopes for Reed for the season have become "he'll make the podium."

Yes, of course I think he can make the podium once this year. All he needs is for some of the fast guys to have a bad night.
731chopper
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1/19/2015 9:27am


They were both more of less on the face at the same time. Reed was in the middle and Canard was on the left. Chad Reed went to protect his line not realizing that Trey was already there. Trey tried to make the pass there not realizing Chad was going to move over to the inside. They both made a mistake there. It is racing. That mistake has happened in the past by riders and will happen again in the future by riders. I'm glad neither of them got physically hurt.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 9:29am
toroP wrote:
"I've never cheered so loudly " What a bummer. Too bad your loudest cheer isn't FOR someone. As stated, Reed won't be around much longer and...
"I've never cheered so loudly " What a bummer. Too bad your loudest cheer isn't FOR someone. As stated, Reed won't be around much longer and it'll really suck if he puts some races together like last year.
Excuse my use of the expression. Here... "I cheered very loudly when Reed's bike blew up and he was black flagged. I have, however, cheered more loudly at good racing between riders I like more." Are we really arguing over semantics at this point?

And I'm not too worried about Reed putting races together like last year. The dude is done.
Dirtysmile56
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1/19/2015 9:31am
Exactly how many championship points did this costed him? Smile
Grieby54 wrote:
Does it matter? Reed only wins when the other top riders are out, and this year there are too many fast guys out there. Reed didn't...
Does it matter? Reed only wins when the other top riders are out, and this year there are too many fast guys out there. Reed didn't have a chance from the start.
It was a joke Smile

Exactly how many championship points did this costed him?
toroP
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1/19/2015 9:32am
toroP wrote:
"I've never cheered so loudly " What a bummer. Too bad your loudest cheer isn't FOR someone. As stated, Reed won't be around much longer and...
"I've never cheered so loudly " What a bummer. Too bad your loudest cheer isn't FOR someone. As stated, Reed won't be around much longer and it'll really suck if he puts some races together like last year.
Grieby54 wrote:
Excuse my use of the expression. Here... "I cheered very loudly when Reed's bike blew up and he was black flagged. I have, however, cheered more...
Excuse my use of the expression. Here... "I cheered very loudly when Reed's bike blew up and he was black flagged. I have, however, cheered more loudly at good racing between riders I like more." Are we really arguing over semantics at this point?

And I'm not too worried about Reed putting races together like last year. The dude is done.
Sorry man, not arguing at all, just responding to what you wrote.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 9:32am
Exactly how many championship points did this costed him? Smile
Grieby54 wrote:
Does it matter? Reed only wins when the other top riders are out, and this year there are too many fast guys out there. Reed didn't...
Does it matter? Reed only wins when the other top riders are out, and this year there are too many fast guys out there. Reed didn't have a chance from the start.
It was a joke Smile

Exactly how many championship points did this costed him?
Mine was too, but I didn't catch yours hah.
moscrop940
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1/19/2015 9:37am
Agfracing wrote:
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed...
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed the track into their line. get up like a little bitch, throw my hands in the air. Then as we get going, Im going to go out of my way, let another rider pass me and punt you off the track.

Canard was along the bails in the first incident. Where should he have gone? He held a 100% straight line through there.
If your in front, even by half a bike, its your line, not theirs.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 9:46am
Agfracing wrote:
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed...
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed the track into their line. get up like a little bitch, throw my hands in the air. Then as we get going, Im going to go out of my way, let another rider pass me and punt you off the track.

Canard was along the bails in the first incident. Where should he have gone? He held a 100% straight line through there.
moscrop940 wrote:
If your in front, even by half a bike, its your line, not theirs.
You cannot be serious. If you are, please tell me that you never ride on a track or, worse, race on the track. You would be a danger to yourself and anyone around you.
1/19/2015 10:55am
Agfracing wrote:
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed...
Lemme just jump at a 45 across a track, case the jump, get landed on by someone. Act like it was 100% their fault i crossed the track into their line. get up like a little bitch, throw my hands in the air. Then as we get going, Im going to go out of my way, let another rider pass me and punt you off the track.

Canard was along the bails in the first incident. Where should he have gone? He held a 100% straight line through there.
Watch the video again... Canard jumps to the middle of the track. He has to with the speed he is carrying or else he will fly off the track is he sticks to the left side of the track. Canard had a massive brainfart and that nearly ended both his and Reed's season.

That said Reed love tap was not that bad, but also not necessary. He deserves a punishment, but black flagging during the race shows how unprofessional the FIM and AMA are trying to run the series. They should acknowledge the foul and deliver punishment after the race.
Zycki11
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1/19/2015 11:01am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2015 11:02am
Take this for example grieby54 and mr slob a knobby. When you are following someone and you know the track narrows down in a right 180 to a close left 180. You rail the outside berm only to find the rider in front blocks the inside by being in FRONT of you. You A. Slow down and fall back in line, or B. You hope for the best and go for it. I wouldn't want to be on the track with your dumbass just going for it with NFG. Mitch Payton, and even Trey himself said he was wrong. Congrats ladies, you win the full retarded award. The rider who is following had the responsibility to not jump on someone. If they have half a bike length even, then you do not go for broke. Mr knobbles really knows his shit though. I can tell by his commentsDry
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 11:12am
Zycki11 wrote:
Take this for example grieby54 and mr slob a knobby. When you are following someone and you know the track narrows down in a right 180...
Take this for example grieby54 and mr slob a knobby. When you are following someone and you know the track narrows down in a right 180 to a close left 180. You rail the outside berm only to find the rider in front blocks the inside by being in FRONT of you. You A. Slow down and fall back in line, or B. You hope for the best and go for it. I wouldn't want to be on the track with your dumbass just going for it with NFG. Mitch Payton, and even Trey himself said he was wrong. Congrats ladies, you win the full retarded award. The rider who is following had the responsibility to not jump on someone. If they have half a bike length even, then you do not go for broke. Mr knobbles really knows his shit though. I can tell by his commentsDry
Eloquently put and supremely well said. The "dumbass" and "retard" and "slob a knobby" etc... comments really show that you're in command of your argument and position.

I'm not saying Trey didn't make a mistake. I'm saying Reed did make a mistake. If someone is on your left throughout a turn that leads to a jump, it's a reasonable assumption to make that he will still be on your left when you jump. Being as that's the case, why in the world would you jump to the left? Chad was never fully clear of Trey and should not have jumped into Trey's line. Trey should have probably checked up to be safe, but when you're out there riding at that pace, you're on the razors edge and have to try to thread the needle.

I'm sorry that this event and the subsequent bench racing has caused you such personal angst.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 11:14am
I'm also still waiting for you to review the clip above and tell me at which point Reed was completely clear of Canard. Here's a hint: he furthest ahead he is in that corner puts his back wheel right at Trey's front wheel.

Also still waiting for you to validate your previous claim that Trey takes a lot of risks. Can you name a few examples?
wfo250
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1/19/2015 11:21am
Not a Reed fan. Reminds me of him racing with James.
To quote RC, "If you can't beat 'em, knock 'em down."
1/19/2015 11:36am
IE22 wrote:
Long time lurker here. After seeing your interview over at TWMX, it forced my to make this post. Clearly, and maybe Chad too, you're kidding yourself...
Long time lurker here. After seeing your interview over at TWMX, it forced my to make this post.

Clearly, and maybe Chad too, you're kidding yourself if you think what Chad did was any different than the act of others. The facts are:

1. Canard was running faster and it was only a matter of time before he got by. Chad knew it and should have sensed Trey was close.

2. Chad took the jump outside - inside and jumped diagonally. Again, he knew Trey was close and should have known that might be a bad idea.

3. Trey made a bad move and tried to jump past him in hopes of squaring him up in that next turn. Didn't quite work out.

4. Most importantly here. Trey DID NOT have the intention of nailing Chad. It was a bad race decision.

5. Chad (consciously) made the decision to take out Trey....ON PURPOSE....as payback.

If you, as a leader of a factory supported team do not understand the difference and choose to see it in some other distorted reality, then you clearly do not understand the difference between right and wrong. Whining about other people not getting in trouble is never going to make one look good. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just like the NBA. Retaliation is always the one to get caught.

The correct response would have been..."Trey made a bonehead pass attempt and it didn't work out and costed both he and Chad. Chad let his temper unfortunately get the best of him and it costed him some championship points. Chad will make a note of it and move on."
I think that is a fair assessment. Dave is a reasonable guy and knows right from wrong, I can assure you... ( I didn't read anything from Dave), but this will pass and Chad will definetly learn from it. I can guarantee you that Chad would take it back in a heartbeat, he just lost his cool. Racing of any kind, can make the rider/ driver and his crew/ team say and do things while pissed off, that they wouldn't normally do. For the record.... I've talked with SEVERAL other AMA pro riders who admitted that they can see theirselves doing EXACTLY what Chad did, and then regretting it later. " Heat of the Battle..., it's "REAL"" shit, not just some BS term that got made up. Everyone needs to get over it, The races will go on and Chad and Trey will be friendly in the near future.
Grieby54
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1/19/2015 11:39am
IE22 wrote:
Long time lurker here. After seeing your interview over at TWMX, it forced my to make this post. Clearly, and maybe Chad too, you're kidding yourself...
Long time lurker here. After seeing your interview over at TWMX, it forced my to make this post.

Clearly, and maybe Chad too, you're kidding yourself if you think what Chad did was any different than the act of others. The facts are:

1. Canard was running faster and it was only a matter of time before he got by. Chad knew it and should have sensed Trey was close.

2. Chad took the jump outside - inside and jumped diagonally. Again, he knew Trey was close and should have known that might be a bad idea.

3. Trey made a bad move and tried to jump past him in hopes of squaring him up in that next turn. Didn't quite work out.

4. Most importantly here. Trey DID NOT have the intention of nailing Chad. It was a bad race decision.

5. Chad (consciously) made the decision to take out Trey....ON PURPOSE....as payback.

If you, as a leader of a factory supported team do not understand the difference and choose to see it in some other distorted reality, then you clearly do not understand the difference between right and wrong. Whining about other people not getting in trouble is never going to make one look good. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just like the NBA. Retaliation is always the one to get caught.

The correct response would have been..."Trey made a bonehead pass attempt and it didn't work out and costed both he and Chad. Chad let his temper unfortunately get the best of him and it costed him some championship points. Chad will make a note of it and move on."
Langhammx wrote:
I think that is a fair assessment. Dave is a reasonable guy and knows right from wrong, I can assure you... ( I didn't read anything...
I think that is a fair assessment. Dave is a reasonable guy and knows right from wrong, I can assure you... ( I didn't read anything from Dave), but this will pass and Chad will definetly learn from it. I can guarantee you that Chad would take it back in a heartbeat, he just lost his cool. Racing of any kind, can make the rider/ driver and his crew/ team say and do things while pissed off, that they wouldn't normally do. For the record.... I've talked with SEVERAL other AMA pro riders who admitted that they can see theirselves doing EXACTLY what Chad did, and then regretting it later. " Heat of the Battle..., it's "REAL"" shit, not just some BS term that got made up. Everyone needs to get over it, The races will go on and Chad and Trey will be friendly in the near future.
Chad mentioned on twitter that he "sticks by [his decision]."
toroP
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1/19/2015 11:51am
toroP wrote:
But Reed is magical! The only guy who can ride mid pack and find himself with 2 titles and 43 wins. I bet Dungey, Milsaps, Canard...
But Reed is magical! The only guy who can ride mid pack and find himself with 2 titles and 43 wins. I bet Dungey, Milsaps, Canard etc. wish they knew that trick!

So, for the record, if 'Mid-Pack"Reed doesn't get hurt, do you think he'll make the podium this year?
Mr. Knobby wrote:
So, for the record, the official hopes for Reed for the season have become "he'll make the podium." Yes, of course I think he can make...
So, for the record, the official hopes for Reed for the season have become "he'll make the podium."

Yes, of course I think he can make the podium once this year. All he needs is for some of the fast guys to have a bad night.
We'll, I'm not Chad Reed, but as a fan, he looks slow compared to last year. So my hopes are that he cracks the podium. If he finds the spark he had last year he could get a win. Looks like a stretch at this point, but maybe the AMA has provided the spark.
SoCalMX70
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1/19/2015 11:53am
Grieby54 wrote:
Chad mentioned on twitter that he "sticks by [his decision]."
Yes he did, and he also said it was wrong, heat of the moment, and he's just human.

Canard also says he made a mistake. So defending Canard can stop now.

For everyone that still thinks the black flag was right, go talk to RC, Carey Hart, Mitch Payton, or various moto journalists who all disagree with you.
dawg51
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1/19/2015 11:58am

Canard's passing spot...

dawg51
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1/19/2015 12:05pm

Lap 7...Reed and Canard outside
Lap 8...Reed and Canard inside
Aggressive move by Canard that did not work. Racing incident!
22Ryann
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1/19/2015 12:57pm
Dave O's comments are at the end of this video if anyone was wondering.

ChrisB10
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1/19/2015 1:04pm
I agree with the OP but I can't believe people actually go to Transworld for moto news. RacerX is where it's at!

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