Significance of track layout in SX, huge!

Subwaytom
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Subwaytom 1/5/2015 11:21am
1/5/2015 11:21am
If you took the flow out of the track, there would be more action/ mistakes/ excitement .
It might not be a fun to race, but it wouldn't be boring if it was hard to be consistent lap after lap.
ridge
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ridge 1/5/2015 11:22am
1/5/2015 11:22am
Kawirider wrote:
It was the first round of the 15 season chill out! Why would they make the first round a very technical track and get riders hurt...
It was the first round of the 15 season chill out! Why would they make the first round a very technical track and get riders hurt at the first round, give it some time.
I agree...but if they are going to make an easier track, then they should put in a couple sand sections so a guy can take a chance and make a pass (safely).
enketchum
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enketchum 1/5/2015 11:55am
1/5/2015 11:55am
RbR wrote:
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/01/05/76054/s1200_A1_Quadtripletable.jpg[/img]
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story.



You weren't at Anaheim. The face before the table wasn't even a roller. They couldn't even jump over to the back side of the table from it. It was like a flat ramp to push you onto the table. But it wouldn't be a quad anyway
Skippie
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Skippie 1/5/2015 12:00pm
1/5/2015 12:00pm
Micahdogg wrote:
The biggest problem with modern Supercross is the 450F. No matter what track designers do to make racing slower, more technical and more competitive, you still...
The biggest problem with modern Supercross is the 450F. No matter what track designers do to make racing slower, more technical and more competitive, you still have a bike with a bazillion horsepower that a rider can whiskey throttle and clear everything. That is the problem.

Jesse Nelson ran a mid 55 lap time at A1. Only 3 guys in the 450 class were in the 55's. Its painful to watch the 450F undo everything that was great about Supercross (and bankrupt OEM's and the teams in the process). So that is my take. Bring back the "not insano horsepower" two strokes that people actually had to have skill to ride and you'll see way better racing no matter what the track looks like.
It actually takes A LOT more money to field a 250 effort then a 450 effort, like a lot. If you think it doesn't take skill to pilot a 450 around a modern supercross track then you are blind. Besides the fact that 450s aren't making that much HP then a 250 two stroke or a 500.

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Micahdogg
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Micahdogg 1/5/2015 12:41pm
1/5/2015 12:41pm
Oh sure it takes skill to pilot a 450, but the 450 lets you do something that no other class can. You can be out of shape, have no drive before a jump and whiskey throttle it and clear whatever you want. That doesn't take skill, that takes brass dusters. You can't do that with a 250F a 125 or even a 250 smoker. With all of those other bikes you can't let the power of the bike make up for your poor technique. If you aren't on point and hitting all your lines you are going to get trounced.

I was also pointing out that with the 125/250 classes, you never saw 125's setting comparable times to the premier class (short of JBS on a KX125). We are regularly seeing it with the 250/450 class - further proof that the 450 is just too much bike. You can't slow it down when all you need is a big nutsack and someone to whiskey throttle it over whatever they want. AT this point it would almost make more sense to have the 250F be the premier bike and offer a 175F class.
Falcon
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Falcon 1/5/2015 12:52pm
1/5/2015 12:52pm
The tracks need a fast section for the appearance of speed, and a slow section to stretch out the lap times. This will give the fans what they want (speed) and still separate the riders with talent. I like it when the tracks join back onto the start straight for some good top speed. Especially when they do it backward so the first turn isn't used during the rest of the race.

By "slow section," I mean s-turns, off-cambers, steep obstacles and stuff you cannot triple, quad, etc.
Micahdogg
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Micahdogg 1/5/2015 12:59pm
1/5/2015 12:59pm
Falcon wrote:
The tracks need a fast section for the appearance of speed, and a slow section to stretch out the lap times. This will give the fans...
The tracks need a fast section for the appearance of speed, and a slow section to stretch out the lap times. This will give the fans what they want (speed) and still separate the riders with talent. I like it when the tracks join back onto the start straight for some good top speed. Especially when they do it backward so the first turn isn't used during the rest of the race.

By "slow section," I mean s-turns, off-cambers, steep obstacles and stuff you cannot triple, quad, etc.
But that doesn't mesh well with the current style of "flowing" the tracks. Which i don't know why everything has to flow and be so pretty and manicured. I also don't know why the whoops have to be large enough to park a buick between. Make em small, fairly far apart and plentiful. I want to see dudes struggling to get to the other end.
RbR
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RbR 1/5/2015 1:26pm
1/5/2015 1:26pm
RbR wrote:
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/01/05/76054/s1200_A1_Quadtripletable.jpg[/img]
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story.



enketchum wrote:
You weren't at Anaheim. The face before the table wasn't even a roller. They couldn't even jump over to the back side of the table from...
You weren't at Anaheim. The face before the table wasn't even a roller. They couldn't even jump over to the back side of the table from it. It was like a flat ramp to push you onto the table. But it wouldn't be a quad anyway
James would do it while pulling tearoff ... it's a true story.
CrashMaster
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CrashMaster 1/5/2015 2:16pm
1/5/2015 2:16pm
FLmxer wrote:
Just copy the tracks from the eighties, that will toughen up these y2k sissies. I kid but seriously of course.
No the 80's tracks sucked, they need to copy the 90's tracks they were much better.
ridge
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ridge 1/5/2015 2:21pm
1/5/2015 2:21pm
Micahdogg wrote:
Oh sure it takes skill to pilot a 450, but the 450 lets you do something that no other class can. You can be out of...
Oh sure it takes skill to pilot a 450, but the 450 lets you do something that no other class can. You can be out of shape, have no drive before a jump and whiskey throttle it and clear whatever you want. That doesn't take skill, that takes brass dusters. You can't do that with a 250F a 125 or even a 250 smoker. With all of those other bikes you can't let the power of the bike make up for your poor technique. If you aren't on point and hitting all your lines you are going to get trounced.

I was also pointing out that with the 125/250 classes, you never saw 125's setting comparable times to the premier class (short of JBS on a KX125). We are regularly seeing it with the 250/450 class - further proof that the 450 is just too much bike. You can't slow it down when all you need is a big nutsack and someone to whiskey throttle it over whatever they want. AT this point it would almost make more sense to have the 250F be the premier bike and offer a 175F class.
Made some good points...
Racer_Twentynine 1/5/2015 3:54pm
1/5/2015 3:54pm
i looked at all the track maps a couple of weeks ago and counted the number of turns on each.

cant remember what the count was but it doesnt vary by more than 2.

i think most were like 7 turns in the track some one less some one more.
wonder if there is magic formula.

seems like there could be more variation though.
Matt Fisher 1/5/2015 4:12pm
1/5/2015 4:12pm
A1 is usually a pretty easy track, the theory is that riders can "ease" into the SX season without getting hurt as easily.

As for guys coming through the field, both JGR riders were around 15th on the second corner, yet finished 6/7. Trey came through nicely, as did others. The complaining generally (this race is far from an isolated incident) comes from a lack of competition at the front, as though four guys battling tooth and nail for 5th place is somehow boring and not worth watching. You can go back to any generation/year of racing, SX or MX and there have always been races that are total snoozers up front, only to have a total fight for 1st place 3 weeks later. Some years this is more prevalent than others (See: MC era in SX, RC in MX, etc).

It's not the tracks, it's the riders. The tracks certainly play a role, but it's nowhere near what it gets made out to be.
chadder44
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chadder44 1/5/2015 4:14pm
1/5/2015 4:14pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2015 4:15pm
I think more 180s will help, but it's really just the dirt. These guys just can't separate themselves as much in the corners because everyone is on ice skates. I liked the tracks in the late 90s and early 2000s a lot, but they were probably too dangerous. Huge whoops and occasional huge doubles. The tracks broke down a lot more too, which helped the cream rise to the top, but also added to the danger. Plus, there was a lot of separation back then between the top few and the rest. Nowadays most everyone can clear every obstacle, so the only real separation is the corners. I wish there was a better answer for the dirt on the west coast.
ocscottie
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ocscottie 1/5/2015 4:24pm
1/5/2015 4:24pm
FLmxer wrote:
Just copy the tracks from the eighties, that will toughen up these y2k sissies. I kid but seriously of course.
CrashMaster wrote:
No the 80's tracks sucked, they need to copy the 90's tracks they were much better.
The 2nd Atlanta round is a 90's retro race, maybe we will see a throwback track?
FLmxer
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FLmxer 1/5/2015 4:24pm
1/5/2015 4:24pm
FLmxer wrote:
Just copy the tracks from the eighties, that will toughen up these y2k sissies. I kid but seriously of course.
CrashMaster wrote:
No the 80's tracks sucked, they need to copy the 90's tracks they were much better.
I was thinking 90's but then thought of the Johnson and Bailey wars.

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