The changes in sx Matthes talks about.

11/2/2014 3:23pm
Um...you dudes? What about staggered gates?



Less first-turn carnage, and all the fast guys up front.

Of course, "TropicPilot" doesn't want the fast guys to get good starts...
ns503
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11/2/2014 3:36pm
More sand & walls.
11/2/2014 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2014 4:21pm
djc wrote:
Anyone that listens to pulp Mx knows that Steve keeps saying we need changes for years now. Out of all of the ideas I hear from...
Anyone that listens to pulp Mx knows that Steve keeps saying we need changes for years now. Out of all of the ideas I hear from joker lane to moto formats to points changes and so on the one thing I think would be the best change that would be a positive without being too crazy and ease into change would be to give points to

1. Hole shot winners
2. Heat races winners.
3. Maybe fastest qualifiers.

I think to reset points and so on would be s little much I love the joker lane for monster cup but I think it needs to stay there. Also I am happy with the moto formats as of now and don't feel that needs changed. Really compared to mx sx is pretty exciting how it is. Any thoughts?
I think that the Joker lane would prove tiresome after a few races. Keep it a MEC thing. It is too cheesy for a championship series.

I do like the following:
1. Bonus point to fast qualifier
2. Bonus point for most laps led in Main
3. Find a dash for cash sponsor, and have a $10,000 4 lap dash for cash for the (2) 450 heat winners. Winner of the $10K gets TWO bonus points.

So if a rider has a perfect weekend, he scores 29 points.

Most important...long lanes and NO 90 degree turns! Short sections and 90s ruin the racing. I do not know why they can not figure this out. Over and over they have short sections and too many 90 degree turns. This is not rocket science. Put DV and Pastrana in charge of track layouts, if they were willing to do it now and again. The times they did tracks, they were loved by all. DVs formula was simple...long rythm sections with a jump count that would allow and more 180s.

Other than that, SX is already pretty exciting..when the tracks are good. Adding classes is a joke (sorry two stroke fan boys). Get real on that. There is only so much time for TV....and adding a 125 class that will be dramatically slower will be a yawner.
djc
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11/2/2014 4:19pm
Yeah Ozzie brings up a point that I think about also and don't get. When a track design works or is a hit, why are we not keeping it and using it again? That makes no sense to not use it again. Not every year but put in in the Rolodex and use it again. Or bring back some rider designed tracks. Same thing with a good obstacle and so on. Like I said before it seems one thing I always hear that could be changed and what all the riders complain about and what industry people say is the tracks either suck, don't have anything to seprrate riders, too basic, or are nothing like they used to be in the two stroke days.

The Shop

oshow
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11/2/2014 4:26pm
djc wrote:
Anyone that listens to pulp Mx knows that Steve keeps saying we need changes for years now. Out of all of the ideas I hear from...
Anyone that listens to pulp Mx knows that Steve keeps saying we need changes for years now. Out of all of the ideas I hear from joker lane to moto formats to points changes and so on the one thing I think would be the best change that would be a positive without being too crazy and ease into change would be to give points to

1. Hole shot winners
2. Heat races winners.
3. Maybe fastest qualifiers.

I think to reset points and so on would be s little much I love the joker lane for monster cup but I think it needs to stay there. Also I am happy with the moto formats as of now and don't feel that needs changed. Really compared to mx sx is pretty exciting how it is. Any thoughts?
Who?
oshow
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11/2/2014 4:30pm
Ozzy wrote:
SX is serious business. Let's keep it that way. Joker Lanes are for 1 Off Events, PERIOD. Joker Lanes aren't for a Series. Joker Lanes are...
SX is serious business.
Let's keep it that way.
Joker Lanes are for 1 Off Events, PERIOD.
Joker Lanes aren't for a Series.
Joker Lanes are like having a Heavyweight Fighter jumping Rope in a Prize Fight.
Again, SX is serious business.
Like the Outdoors, there's a tough Championship Title on the line.
17 races is incredibly tough especially given the schedule at hand.
No room for error let alone catching a cold!!
Making it any easier takes away from that.
As in other sports, the cream rises to the top.
It always does.
Guys that don't have it always push for change.
I've said it for yrs, work with the top 5 from either division.
Feld, AMA and FIM needs to get back to working and listening to those top 5 riders on track design, etc.
Who else knows better on track design then Top guys who constantly build their own tracks.
Things such as layouts and obstacles that have worked well in the past need to be on a short list.
When those things are clear, use them, reincorporate them as part of the formula.
#Bring On 2015





This...

And my one add would be More Dirt. Not for a damn joker lane but for some super technical sections and to use every sq inch of the floor possible.
Lonestar_399
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11/2/2014 5:08pm
Just get us to a 20 minute plus 1 lap Main for the big bikes and 15 minute plus 1 lap for the small bikes.

I just feel robbed not getting a 20 minute main. There's a lot of horseplay between moto's when there could be racing. Bring in one more little dozer and add more dirt on top of the plywood. Feld has the money to take care of the tracks.

No need for tricking up the points either. They work just fine as is...it's about winning, not holeshots or qualifying heat results.
Katoomey
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11/2/2014 5:33pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2014 5:34pm
djc wrote:
That is actually a good point. Everyone complains about the tracks and how easy they are and there is nothing to seperate the riders and so...
That is actually a good point. Everyone complains about the tracks and how easy they are and there is nothing to seperate the riders and so on. Thet would be a supposed easy or quick fix. I bave no clue about the track building proces but I would think way more rider Imput before the track is built would be good
there's nothing to separate the riders? thats just what guys say when they aren't faster than everyone else. I mean, does everyone complain? even the guys barely making mains? it's a fuckin excuse for not winning, nothing more.

Ever watch dirt track racing? its a fucking flat circle of dirt. What separates those riders, other than skill?

...and do you really want more domination? I can't think of another sport where 2-3 participants dominate more often than in professional motocross.

Johnny Depp
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11/2/2014 6:28pm Edited Date/Time 11/2/2014 7:29pm
Points based on Main event moto finish with the lowest points the series winner. The more you separate the winners from the rest, the less we have competition since after a few races some guys are already out of it (James).

Elimination based qualifying heats like in March Madness. Who wants to watch the loser's bracket? Boring, time to get a beer. I want to see the big boys race, so keep them on the track, a winners bracket.

More sponsor space on the bikes. No need for side number plates. Then sell Series Sponsor space above the front number plate like speedway bikes and use that money for the purse. I know some sponsors will be pissed like competing energy drinks. And bring on the beer and cigarette sponsors like Nascar. The riders deserve the dough.






BobbyM
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11/2/2014 7:14pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know another thing that could help improve it ( since they don't have extra room to make a bigger track ).........is add some laps. The...
You know another thing that could help improve it ( since they don't have extra room to make a bigger track ).........is add some laps. The lites guys need to be 20 and the 450's need to be 25. These 15 - 17min mains kinda suck. If you blink they are over....AND it also gives a chance to the guys with bad starts to move up more spots.
2 main events per race for each class at 10 laps each.
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2014 7:26pm
Cygnus wrote:
I'd be happy to see timed qualifying to go the way of the dodo. Race your way into the evening program is how it should be.

Exactly.
djc
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11/2/2014 7:28pm
djc wrote:
That is actually a good point. Everyone complains about the tracks and how easy they are and there is nothing to seperate the riders and so...
That is actually a good point. Everyone complains about the tracks and how easy they are and there is nothing to seperate the riders and so on. Thet would be a supposed easy or quick fix. I bave no clue about the track building proces but I would think way more rider Imput before the track is built would be good
Katoomey wrote:
there's nothing to separate the riders? thats just what guys say when they aren't faster than everyone else. I mean, does everyone complain? even the guys...
there's nothing to separate the riders? thats just what guys say when they aren't faster than everyone else. I mean, does everyone complain? even the guys barely making mains? it's a fuckin excuse for not winning, nothing more.

Ever watch dirt track racing? its a fucking flat circle of dirt. What separates those riders, other than skill?

...and do you really want more domination? I can't think of another sport where 2-3 participants dominate more often than in professional motocross.

No this is more coming from top guys. Reed. Stewart are a few I recall if my memory serves me correct which who knows about that.
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2014 7:28pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know another thing that could help improve it ( since they don't have extra room to make a bigger track ).........is add some laps. The...
You know another thing that could help improve it ( since they don't have extra room to make a bigger track ).........is add some laps. The lites guys need to be 20 and the 450's need to be 25. These 15 - 17min mains kinda suck. If you blink they are over....AND it also gives a chance to the guys with bad starts to move up more spots.
BobbyM wrote:
2 main events per race for each class at 10 laps each.
I like our Hero's on the track more. I just think if you want to grow the sport a non fan ought to be able to figure out who won.
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2014 7:33pm
We all know how important the start is . I f you really like to mix things up keep qualifying the same to qualify but draw...
We all know how important the start is . I f you really like to mix things up keep qualifying the same to qualify but draw for start positions on all starts I guarantee we would have different results every weekend.
Amen
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2014 7:36pm
Radical wrote:
My only suggestion is to set a variable number of laps each week to make the mains 15+ and 20+ minutes long dependent on the lap...
My only suggestion is to set a variable number of laps each week to make the mains 15+ and 20+ minutes long dependent on the lap times in the qualifiers, with a minimum of 15 and 20 laps.
Agree
djc
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11/2/2014 7:37pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know another thing that could help improve it ( since they don't have extra room to make a bigger track ).........is add some laps. The...
You know another thing that could help improve it ( since they don't have extra room to make a bigger track ).........is add some laps. The lites guys need to be 20 and the 450's need to be 25. These 15 - 17min mains kinda suck. If you blink they are over....AND it also gives a chance to the guys with bad starts to move up more spots.
BobbyM wrote:
2 main events per race for each class at 10 laps each.
I like our Hero's on the track more. I just think if you want to grow the sport a non fan ought to be able to...
I like our Hero's on the track more. I just think if you want to grow the sport a non fan ought to be able to figure out who won.
That is true. If they want that they better dam sure not suspend bubba and get better coverage of the gp season for rv in 2015
Because those are the the only two riders that non followers of the sport are aware of mostly to my knowledge
Johnny Depp
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11/2/2014 7:46pm
LoudLove wrote:
Any proposed change must demonstrate a high probability of increasing revenues/income for the entities that finance the racing. Conversely, no change will be implemented that theoretically...
Any proposed change must demonstrate a high probability of increasing revenues/income for the entities that finance the racing. Conversely, no change will be implemented that theoretically reduces revenues. Think of it from Feld and the factories' perspective. They have little time or patience for creativity (i.e. classes with vehicles the OEMs do not sell), nor will they consider format changes simply for the sake of change.

Think March Madness. Every sports bar in the country filled with rabid fans. Close finishes. Networks begging for games.
You won't be able to do it by trimming around the edges. The factories need to step back and Feld needs to step up.
Pembroke36
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11/2/2014 7:57pm
I still think 450's are too much indoors, or at least for the track designs. Not that you could change that because of the money involved. But some guys start in 3rd gear and probably never shift. I'm amazed at the GoPro footage and how little they are actually on the throttle. Granted there is still some good races, but I'd imagine half the battle is just keeping the bike under control.
Jimfunn
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11/3/2014 3:51am
Just more variety in the tracks would be a enough for now. Chuck in some weird features, a water splash, a bombhole, anything! Just something out of the ordinary. And it doesn't need to be at every race, just a few throughout the year.
11/3/2014 7:47am
Cygnus nailed it--for Moto fans those qualifier races were awesome, I'd hit the track early just to watch those, easily as fun as the night show. For us old guys who remember the old two Moto format in SX, all we heard was it was too confusing to the average casual fan, do why go back?
Ashleymx
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11/3/2014 8:11am
Why? Stadiums are already selling out. It's hard enough and expensive enough as it is to get good seats.

Australia has been mentioned as trying different formats a few times on Pulpmx but that was a total disaster (no one has actually looked into what happened?) ! It was one of the main reasons Supercross died in Australia. The riders/teams couldn't work out what was going on each week and the spectators just got completely lost. They don't want to think to much adding points from this and that. 20 laps, done and they walk out of the stadium knowing who won.

Plenty has changed over the years in Supercross anyway so Steve saying nothing has changed and every other sport has is inaccurate. If I look at other sports from the outside they actually do look the same to me at first glance. Beside HD a baseball game looks the same as 20 years ago lol Supercross doesn't. Tracks, Bikes, Riders etc etc

The one off things at MEC are awesome because they are once a year. Lets leave it that way.
NV825
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11/3/2014 8:19am
The fact that we have 15 minute 450 main events is mind boggling and does not justify the ridiculous pricing at some stadiums. All the races should be measured in time instead of laps.

450's should be:
Heats: 8 minutes + 2 laps
Semis: 6 minutes + 2 laps
LCQ: 6 minutes + 2 laps
Main: 20 minutes + 2 laps

cut it down for 250's if you want, but 250's run 30 + 2 no problem outdoors so I would even be in favor of them sharing the same amount of track time (no semis like 450's though).
Julian
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11/3/2014 8:30am
djc wrote:
Anyone that listens to pulp Mx knows that Steve keeps saying we need changes for years now. Out of all of the ideas I hear from...
Anyone that listens to pulp Mx knows that Steve keeps saying we need changes for years now. Out of all of the ideas I hear from joker lane to moto formats to points changes and so on the one thing I think would be the best change that would be a positive without being too crazy and ease into change would be to give points to

1. Hole shot winners
2. Heat races winners.
3. Maybe fastest qualifiers.

I think to reset points and so on would be s little much I love the joker lane for monster cup but I think it needs to stay there. Also I am happy with the moto formats as of now and don't feel that needs changed. Really compared to mx sx is pretty exciting how it is. Any thoughts?
moto0852 wrote:
As Forrest said, "I'm not a smart man" so I clearly don't have the answers but I recently attended the enduro cross race here in Salt...
As Forrest said, "I'm not a smart man" so I clearly don't have the answers but I recently attended the enduro cross race here in Salt Lake city and it was awesome. Very slow, technical track (opposite of monster cup) lead to a bunch of passes and great action. They gave points for heat wins and fastest laps which made every gate drop super important and interesting to watch.
just read first few lines of this thread and already my mind is racing again about this topic,

Good Point you make regarding enduro cross. not much rhythm in that sport whereas our wonderful sport of SX has developed into a rhythm sport, jump, jump two, jump three, then turn right and jump two, jump one, there are blueprints to see how to create a SX more like the enduro cross (you need to go back to the Rick Johnson days) but I agree with Steve in this respect, you can try it out and if it does not work better, you can always go back to the default we currently have then all the riders can go back to their exactly copy practice tracks knowing they are exactly what they will be racing, ho hummmm....
Julian
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11/3/2014 8:45am
Pembroke36 wrote:
I still think 450's are too much indoors, or at least for the track designs. Not that you could change that because of the money involved...
I still think 450's are too much indoors, or at least for the track designs. Not that you could change that because of the money involved. But some guys start in 3rd gear and probably never shift. I'm amazed at the GoPro footage and how little they are actually on the throttle. Granted there is still some good races, but I'd imagine half the battle is just keeping the bike under control.
yep, i agree 450's are totally unnecessary, indoors and out for that matter, everybody could easily shift to riding 250's and two years later no one would even remember there were 450's, everyone would just be concentrating on the riders in the main class and the support class and forget about how many cc's are in the motor.

the action on the track would be the same, give or take a half second per lap

BUT, someone is making money out of the fact there are two sizes of bikes and those people will try there best to keep two sizes in the game, ho hummmmm
Johnny Depp
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11/3/2014 9:30am
I don't care what size or type engine, The premier class in the world should not be handicapped. Bring whatever you've got. Work's bikes welcome.

Why have pro's in 2 classes with watered down fields? The lap times are about the same and riders can move up to big bikes and immediately be top 10. I'm being cheated not having the best all in one class.
msp138
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11/3/2014 9:59am
I think everybody is looking at the joker lane as a gimmick because its used one lap. Embrace the idea but modify it. Make a difficult tight section of the track that requires riders to really slow down and make it part of the track. Its the same idea of a sand section but those end up being one lined and simple.
Everyone cries for change but when it comes down to it more change could hurt. It could turn the sport into something we we don't even recognize anymore.
The only change I would see to help would be to pay points to all the riders the fans see. That way even if you don't qualify you still have something to show your sponsors at the end of your series. That is no way my original idea by the way. I think matthes says it a lot.
hvaughn88
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11/3/2014 10:04am
I hate to do the JT$ "waffle" but I really do see both sides on this. The selfish side of me wants to try something new, passing points, leading points, joker lane, all that stuff, because I've watched the same format for so long. But the other side of me has to remember that we (guys that watch every minute of it and actually get on message boards to argue like a bunch of dipshits) probably aren't the concern of the broadcast crew. Hell, they could have them do the cliché "race around barrels" and we would watch it regardless. I'm sure the people they are trying to appeal to is the casual fan or tv surfer that happens upon it after a football game and gets sucked in. In that case, simple is better.
Ashleymx
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11/3/2014 10:15am
Pembroke36 wrote:
I still think 450's are too much indoors, or at least for the track designs. Not that you could change that because of the money involved...
I still think 450's are too much indoors, or at least for the track designs. Not that you could change that because of the money involved. But some guys start in 3rd gear and probably never shift. I'm amazed at the GoPro footage and how little they are actually on the throttle. Granted there is still some good races, but I'd imagine half the battle is just keeping the bike under control.
Julian wrote:
yep, i agree 450's are totally unnecessary, indoors and out for that matter, everybody could easily shift to riding 250's and two years later no one...
yep, i agree 450's are totally unnecessary, indoors and out for that matter, everybody could easily shift to riding 250's and two years later no one would even remember there were 450's, everyone would just be concentrating on the riders in the main class and the support class and forget about how many cc's are in the motor.

the action on the track would be the same, give or take a half second per lap

BUT, someone is making money out of the fact there are two sizes of bikes and those people will try there best to keep two sizes in the game, ho hummmmm
As soon as you put everyone on the same size bikes you'll lose half the top riders, half the teams, half the sponsors and half the interest from the spectators. So many jobs lost, so much money gone. The only way you could have a second race to fill the program would be to have a B class. Yes those guys will still be in the top 40 fastest in the world but they wont be in the A class so who will care. With 2 classes separated by engine capacity there's a reason to watch both. 450s are heavier, more powerful, harder to ride fast and their final is an extra 5 laps. That's what separates them from the 250 class and makes it the premier class, something for the 250 guys to strive for.
Johnny Depp
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11/3/2014 10:26am
If you were to double the spectator interest ther would be plenty of sponsors and teams and you will never run out of riders.
I have often slept through the Supercross show and I am a fan. The loser's bracket's need to go away. (semi's and LCQ's). It doesn't have to be the same size bikes, a 250f could easily win a premier class main, as could a 300t. No changes will equal limited growth.
O___o
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11/3/2014 10:35am
"If they'd just let me ride the 125 in the 250 class, i'd wax everyone's ass."

-Guy Cooper

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