1988 RM 250 build : Revisited and done

gun rue
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5
Joined
6/24/2014
Location
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
6/24/2014 4:33pm
Any update? I have an 88 rm 250 that thing fn fasttt I love it ..but now I'm burning tranns oil and its comeing out the tail pipe...it was just rebuilt now I have to take it apart change the seals hopefully that's what's wrong...I wanna to see your bike done!!
sandman768
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8226
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3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
6/25/2014 6:40am






Update: refinished all blue items! Welding shop took forever with the frame! waiting on vendors can really bog a build down. The only vendor I'm waiting on now is the plating company, they have everything I need to go any further! Several issues came up: I wanted to replace 3rd,4th & 5th gears, slightly worn & Suzi's known for weak gearboxes when new, but these gears are very hard to come by, I only found new 4th gear on ebay, some sites list 5th as available from Suzuki, but NLA! I waited 3-4 weeks looking on ebay, new gears never came up, so I moved on. THis is a bummer because it can never be a dailey rider if no trans gears avail. I also had a "paint bomb" spray can made at an autobody store, very good color match with PPG auto paint, single stage enamel. I get everything prepped & go to start painting, spray can does not work! this is 30.00 can of paint! I go back to autobody supply store, they give me new cap. try it again, no go! I ended up using rustolium, sail blue paint from Home depot! rustolium actually works good & goes on nice shinny, but no way is it as good as auto/ppg paint, color match slightly off. Photo's show new clutch kit, inner hub, pressure plate & bearings replaced, Baskets are NLA, mine was not too bad, filed notches out of tangs. repaired clutch case, frame, footpegs, ect. painted. This may be the last refinishing I do in my garage! I had just expoxy coated my garage floor a month before this, the floor is so nice, I don't want to get it dirty! when I painted all the blue items, the overspray stuck to the new epoxy floor, I mean heavily, the floor was blue! I was on my hands & knee's for 2hrs with mineral spirits cleaning the overspray! What started as a 2hr refinishing of the frame & other related parts, turned out to be an 8hr fiasco! there is light at the end of the tunnel! I'm going to finish swingarm sanding & blasting today & hope the Plating company calls me with good news. I almost forgot, I had Factory Connection rebuild shock & forks, my 1 fork leg starting leaking from bottom rebound nut, so, back to FC to have them correct it! I will take more pho's when reassembly in process. Thanks for the motivation Gun Rue! sometimes these builds can get frustrating! eating trans oil, sounds like right side crank seal? can do it with motor in frame...
gun rue
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5
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6/24/2014
Location
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
6/25/2014 2:30pm
Looks damn good! I didn't go as far as you did with my 88 but I did touched up the paint and new piston kit hone job (they can't bore the stock 88cylinder) and rebuilt bottom half of the motor (bearing only).. .I didn't do the seals..I road the hack out of it for about 3 weeks now with no issue then yesterday out of nowere blowing oil. That's how I found this site and noticed your posting... lots of good info about the 88 suzuki rm250 on your posting...and your doing a hell of a good job. Thank you for sharing ur build!!
Zzpzz
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13
Joined
7/18/2014
Location
Federal Way, WA, USA
7/18/2014 4:16am
I don't usually join forums but I wanted to make sure I could find your thread again . I'm a few months and a lot of cash behind you on the restoration of my 88 rm250. Picked mine up with a cr250 neither had run in about 5 years. I was able to get both running in about two hours and sold the cr250 a couple days after bringing it home. The RM was definitely the better of the two and let it sit in my garage for about four months before starting the tear down last week. Mine was in a bit better shape than yours at first glance but I still have some surprises left to find as the rear swing arm is next on my list for tearing apart. The big surprises so far have been front breaks with no pads ... Just two metal plates and the fact that the previous owner rebuilt the top end and bolted on the head with sever pitting. I was able to get a new head for $20 bucks on eBay. The motor feels good and the cylinder walls look good also. I'm stuck at the point of should I take down the rest of the motor, or leave it be. I'm open to suggestions.

Oh I almost forgot he melted the spark arrestor internal sleeve/ baffle it's the reason I wanted to see the cylinder and exhaust port which looked perfect thankfully. He must have started a fire in his spark arrestor or something first time I have seen that kind of damage that far from the engine. The FMF pipe wasn't discolored either.

So far I need:
New front tire
Front break pads
Head gasket / gasket kit
Stem bearings
Spark arrestor ( dam things are expensive )
Front brake rotor ( haven't actually confirmed that but I'm assuming )
Fork seals
Grips

I'm going to do the front and rear wheel bearings just because they are cheap.
Any thing you have run into that I need to check besides the swing arm cracking( I might have missed that )... Or known 88 problems ? I have heard the transmissions are weak ... Mine seemed ok during my ten minute ride before tearing it down.
Don't





The Shop

sandman768
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8226
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Location
Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
7/18/2014 5:23am
zzpzz....by the looks of that head I would do a complete teardown & inspect the crank bearing, when I redo an old bike, I split cases & replace all bearings & seals, then inspect and replace anything else that is out of spec as per manual. Donot pound on swingarm shaft bolt if stuck! use pb blaster, heat & be patient! my bolt was frozen/ rusted & I should have used heat, the pounding on the shaft/ bolt cracked the swingarm in 3 spots, where bearings are pressed in, I did have it repaired, but I had alot of time with die grinder afterwards! trans gears VERY hard to get! cannot get from Suzuki nla! I needed front rotor also due to rust, found nice 1 on ebay. Some 86 & 87 parts interchange, chk partszilla for interchange. Overall Suzukis seam to have cheap bearings & nuts & bolts, I have replaced every bearing on the bike & either replated or replaced every bolt. I just recieved my batch of hardware from my plater & began reassembly 2 days ago, I will post sOme more photos soon. If you plan on doing any serious riding with this bike, get frame reinforced at lower cradle & foot peg area& you can use newer/wider rm foot pegs.
barkhard696
Posts
1469
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1/30/2010
Location
Houston, TX, USA
7/18/2014 6:11am
>Overall Suzukis seam to have cheap bearings & nuts & bolts,

MXA used to always complain about this, and I've found it to be the case with my '81 and '82 RMs also. The aluminum flat-head screws they used for the plastic on the '84-'85s were pretty trick though, I've saved a bag of those for other projects.
Zzpzz
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13
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7/18/2014
Location
Federal Way, WA, USA
7/18/2014 2:59pm Edited Date/Time 7/18/2014 7:45pm
Thanks for the tips... I have learned to not beat on things ( mostly ). Every time the hammer comes out of the toolbox it cost me money. So far my bike has come apart pretty easy the old owner at least kept it in covered storage. Is it worth plating the nuts and bolts or should I look at just replacing them as best I can.

Dam that head ... So the previous owner was a cheapskate or his mechanic was cutting some corners on the rebuild... Either way it leaves me wondering what else might be wrong.

I can get out of this bike right now with a profit. If I throw it back together put a few absolutely needed parts on it and sell it ,I would make money (probably couple hundred). Or I can dig a money pit and enjoy the rebuild.


If I sell this bike as a running project and get $500 out of it plus the money I would have spent , I'm at a thousand dam quick. And can either get a newer bike ,or 89 in good to great shape. ( which I think I like the looks of better than the 88 ).


Sandman768 should I turn back now, are you happy with how your build is going monetarily ( looks great otherwise)? I read another thread on a Kawasaki that the guy kept track of his expenditures and it came to $4300! His bike was awesome but that's crazy. A little over the value is ok but I want to keep cost at about $1200... my bike needs all new plastic and radiators ( radiators are mechanically sound but I will replace them at some point ). Rough estimate and I'm near a thousand pretty quick.

Thanks again for the tips ...I'm already saving money on a few mistakes I would have made.

Link is for a write up on the 88 rm250 ... I found it interesting.

http://www.pulpmx.com/stories/look-back-old-moto-mags/gps-classic-steel…

sandman768
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8226
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Location
Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
7/18/2014 7:44pm
if you are in this to make money then stop now & sell, i have more money in this build than i can ever get in resale. im not in this to make money. i enjoy doing these restores & 1 thing i have learned is, if your going to do it, do it right! i"m sure i have at least 3 k in my bike now, but, when it is done, i wont be wishing i did something different. all depends on your end goal, are you flipping a bike or bringing a piece of mx history back to life?
Zzpzz
Posts
13
Joined
7/18/2014
Location
Federal Way, WA, USA
7/18/2014 8:10pm
I was just out in the garage and starting to undo the bolts on the piston sleeve when I resized the piston has no carbon build up... Am I breaking down a fresh rebuild. If I break down the motor do I need a new ring ... I have always been fixing a motor when I tore it down before. The exhaust port didn't leave any carbon on my finger even. I think the couple of minutes I ran it might be the only time this piston has on it. Cylinder is 67.3 mm and piston says .010 gap looks good and it feels smooth.

Don't know if these pics are good enough to see.

I don't do forums often so tell me to go get my own thread if I'm out of line posting on yours.

Should I try peeking around before I commit to tearing it all down . I'm more of a break it and fix it kind of mechanic. Pall park idea of what it cost you to freshen up your motor ? Mains , piston ring , gaskets , shift forks ? Water pump impeller ... What am I forgetting ? Misc bearings... Sounds like $200 bucks easy if everything looks good. If this is/was bored out do you need to plate the cylinder and how would I know if it was done?





Zzpzz
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13
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7/18/2014
Location
Federal Way, WA, USA
7/18/2014 8:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/18/2014 8:37pm
sandman768 wrote:
if you are in this to make money then stop now & sell, i have more money in this build than i can ever get in...
if you are in this to make money then stop now & sell, i have more money in this build than i can ever get in resale. im not in this to make money. i enjoy doing these restores & 1 thing i have learned is, if your going to do it, do it right! i"m sure i have at least 3 k in my bike now, but, when it is done, i wont be wishing i did something different. all depends on your end goal, are you flipping a bike or bringing a piece of mx history back to life?
I'm definitely not a historian ... I like working on motorcycles and enjoy the project almost as much as ridding. I was dying for a motorcycle in the late 80s and really like this era of bike but if I was going to invest $3000 grand I think I would buy a new bike for $2500 and put 500 in tires and maintenance into it and be ridding all summer. I don't plan on making money but I want to be realistic . $1500 seems ok ... Ride it ... Have a blast and sell it for 1200ish and move on to the next project.. Although after the first real ride I may get real attached.

I got a couple nephews that I really want to introduce to trail riding / mx and this seems like a great bike for them to learn some basic mechanic skills as well as ride a bit ( might be to much bike for them at first but that's half the fun) soon as I could afford a motorcycle I lived at the Oregon dunes ,Most of my favourite memories are off-road. Girls ,quads ,campfires and ocean waves.. life doesn't get any better !

Your bike looks like you put the time and effort into it and that's the approach I take ,but just don't know if this is a bike I want to keep... Problem is I won't know until I get on the trail and let her rip.

Thanks again for the good advice !
7/18/2014 9:42pm
I wouldn't use that head the way it sits. There are 3 of them on ebay right now, each under $40. Find one without any marks on the gasket surface or combustion chamber.
sandman768
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8226
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Location
Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
8/2/2014 5:53pm










Update: picked up all hardware from my local plating company, first time I ever had anything plated. o/all pretty happy with plating, as all nuts, bolts, axles ect look new. some of the threads on the bolts had to be cleaned up, the owner of the plating company told me sometimes the process leaves built up material on ends of bolts. the owner also stated he was sorry it took so long & after I had brought coffee & donuts for his employee's he would not take any money from me! The only part I'm waiting on now is a rear master cylinder rebuild kit, It took me 2 days to get pressure at the front brake lever & the rear just would not pump up, turns out seal was bad on master cylinder. This build has been brutal! Seems like not even oem Suzuki parts fit correctly! I had to use a scissors jack to spread frame apart to get swingarm in place, I have never had to do that on any bike I ever owned. I will send up some more in process photos, kind of a pain to get them off my phone. This will be my last Suzuki build for sure. I'm going to ride the bike just to make sure everything I rebuild was done correctly, went way out of my mechanical comfort zone on this bike, but learned a lot! Most proud of the pipe, see original photo's of pipe, it was plated type & pretty hammered, thanks to my buddy G.Gallucci for blowing out all the dents, then I learned on this site how to remove crome & bring back raw look with blueing of the welds.
sandman768
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8/2/2014 6:00pm










EL Sammo
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166
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5/19/2014
Location
AU
8/2/2014 11:33pm
Looks like its coming along nicely, the blue paint really stands out!
sandman768
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8226
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
8/23/2014 7:18am
Update/Help! bikes is pretty much done! fired it up , but gas running out of vent tubes & i could barely keep it running. when i turned gas off it cleaned out nicely, sounded great, so off comes the carb! i had cleaned carb, but should have just rebuilt it completely! i
oring that held needle & seat body to carb body was hard & not sealing, replaced. measured float height or attempted to! varying ways to do this as per manuals. ordered new needle & seat assy. before i put carb back on, i was wondering if anyone out there has good baseline jetting specs? i have manual for stock specs, but i know these rm"s used to have hit or miss jetting from factory, anyone have old issue of mxa they can post any jetting info for me. i know jetting is relative to locals but any input will help. bike has pc pipe & silencer & i will only run 50/50 non ethanol & race gas @ 32:1, i"m expecting to go leaner on pilot & main, kind of remeber these bikes were very rich from factory. thanks in advance for any info. I will post up some better Completed photos & maybe video when running, as with alot of these builds, it"s so pretty, you dont want to ride it, but, I need to ride this bike to make sure everything I did is 100%,
sandman768
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
8/23/2014 3:06pm






















sandman768
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8226
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
8/23/2014 3:14pm
just finished putting carb back on, after replacing needle & seat assy. started it up, better, still loading up a bit off idle, but seems to clean out quicker. need to bring to track for test ride, throttle chop test.
gun rue
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5
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6/24/2014
Location
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
8/24/2014 5:13pm
I had jetting issues with mine ..would eat spark plugs, and not stay running I ordered stock jets and now I'm not eating no spark plugs and it stays running...try stock jets..I use 93octane gas with 32/1...I never used race fuel..mine is really fast and I trail ride every weekend when I can. they own the big trails ...if fuel is running out vent tubes then float is on wrong easy fix... damn good job on that rm!
sandman768
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8226
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3/21/2014
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
9/5/2014 12:47pm
Help! ok vital experts, i need some direction on my mikuni tmx issues, i"m stumped ! bike is loading up at low rpm bad. i"ve cleaned carb, replaced pilot jet , needle & seat assy, & main jets, settings are all stock. i set float height to 14 mm"s as per manual. cleans out if held wide open for a long time & when ridden mid range & top end is good but dies at low rpm. no fuel leaking out of hoses, but if i turn petcock off it cleans up nice until it runs out of fuel. thinking of replacing needle that clip attatches to next.?
9/5/2014 2:09pm
Sounds like your pilot jet is at least one size too big. I would guess it runs a bit better if the air screw is only 1/2 turn out than it does at 2 turns out. If so, that would indicate the pilot is too big.
sandman768
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
9/6/2014 5:52am
thanks for input Matt, if it were a slight loading up i would say you are correct, the jetting is stock and really runs so poor there is no way it could have been this bad from factory. of course all my years of collecting jets are all from keihins! i"ll have to visit suzuki shop for some leaner pilot jets and keep playing with it. i pulled carb off again & double checked float height & for debris, everything was perfect, i"m baffled by this mikuni tmx! i just for giggles i had a keihin off a 96 cr sitting on my bench so i compared the 2 carbs, very close in dimentions, low & behold it fits ! started bike, no more loading up! i have to bring to track to test it, but appears to have totally solved loading up problem. i was starting to think maybe power vavles were not operating correctly but this appears to be all carb related. now this keihin carb has a pretty worn slide, that is why im not using it for my 96 cr project but appears to be better than the mikuni tmx. im still baffled as to what could be wrong with the mikuni, i still want to use the original carb but if the keihin works at least i know where the problem lies.
9/6/2014 8:59am
Good to hear it's running well. Yes, the TMX carbs suck.
zippy895
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5495
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Daytona Beach, FL, USA
9/6/2014 12:51pm
I was always told,reason for this 250(1988) loaded up easier,was because of the large crankcase volume.
I recall clearing my bike on the starting line before the gate dropped.never had a running idle.kinda sucked,because it only has a 1 ring piston.
also fyi,2nd gear is on the soft side.
jtracing6
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588
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11/26/2009
Location
Dundalk, IE
9/6/2014 2:53pm
Great looking bike, why didn't you paint the cylinder? I want to see bigger photos of your garage, it looks like I wanted mine to be but it didn't turn out that clean!
sandman768
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
9/8/2014 3:11pm
zippy 895...:i searched for as many new gears as i could find during rebuild, i replaced what i could get, which was not many, luckily the tranny was decent, but could never be a daily rider due to NLA gears. 1 ring piston is ok, just have to monitor compression & be ready to re ring when needed. If I put 8 hrs on this bike it will be alot, I have modern bikes for pounding laps when needed, I really enjoy the build process, we"ll, when iʻm not pulling my hair out! jtracing6: I had cylinder replated by powerseal in Pa. they media blast the cylinders as part of their service, I liked the way it looked. garage took 1 year to get to this point, its a carraige house, full heat, plumbing& electrics, I could live upstairs and may end up there if I spend any more time out there says the wife! I used real expoxy on the floor, expensive & very time consuming, but floor is so nice you could eat off it! thanks for kind words!
10/16/2014 1:39pm
sandman768 wrote:
zippy 895...:i searched for as many new gears as i could find during rebuild, i replaced what i could get, which was not many, luckily the...
zippy 895...:i searched for as many new gears as i could find during rebuild, i replaced what i could get, which was not many, luckily the tranny was decent, but could never be a daily rider due to NLA gears. 1 ring piston is ok, just have to monitor compression & be ready to re ring when needed. If I put 8 hrs on this bike it will be alot, I have modern bikes for pounding laps when needed, I really enjoy the build process, we"ll, when iʻm not pulling my hair out! jtracing6: I had cylinder replated by powerseal in Pa. they media blast the cylinders as part of their service, I liked the way it looked. garage took 1 year to get to this point, its a carraige house, full heat, plumbing& electrics, I could live upstairs and may end up there if I spend any more time out there says the wife! I used real expoxy on the floor, expensive & very time consuming, but floor is so nice you could eat off it! thanks for kind words!
hello I am a French pilot, amateur of suzuki !
I parl very badly English and I use a sorry translator
I present one of my Suzuki to you

10/16/2014 1:44pm
the 88 is very rare in France it is impossible to find the muffler :-(
sandman768
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8226
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Saratoga Springs, NY, USA
10/16/2014 4:08pm
great looking bike, suzuki France! I would take a stock silencer as well, they were oval and thinner, compared to the pro circuit that we both have, my pro circuit muffler rubs on tire, I have it shimmed out as much as possible, I have a 110/ 90/18 rear tire, which should be same size as original size, maybe I need smaller back tire? I did not realize this when I first rode it & wore the awesome pro circuit decal off the silencer! parts are hard to come by for these bikes in US also....
10/16/2014 8:28pm
hello I am a French pilot, amateur of suzuki ! I parl very badly English and I use a sorry translator I present one of my...
hello I am a French pilot, amateur of suzuki !
I parl very badly English and I use a sorry translator
I present one of my Suzuki to you

Awesome RM! You're English is fine by the way
1

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