Lappers 15 minutes to stay on the lead lap

iro
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8/24/2014 9:43am
500guy wrote:
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes...
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes anyone outside 30th not on the lead lap gets flagged off.

Anyone who makes the Motos are bad ass rider no doubt but there are 3-4 different levels out there these day's.

I hate to see some guy getting beat to death out there affecting the results of the leaders.
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off?

I really cannot believe you are serious. I nibbled but i dont like the bait...

man I already hate the "off" season.
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 9:51am
zippy895 wrote:
if you were a privateer,would you even bother signing up for a pro event if they told you,once you are lapped your done?these guys would save...
if you were a privateer,would you even bother signing up for a pro event if they told you,once you are lapped your done?these guys would save the money and dominate local races and always realize the next step up to pro is not happening,unless you are a freak of nature right from the local level.
If you're that far off the pace, yes. Because to make it, you have to be a freak.

This isnt stick and ball sports where Bench warmers are making 300K -2-3 Million as backups.

At some point all kids realize Santa and the Tooth Fairy don't exist. They Cry, then move on.

Daniel Blair is a good example. Super Fast. Realized he has to find a different way sooner, which is way better than later.

Races and rides occaisonally for fun.
This is a sport with little to no future for most. And with rising costs is getting worse.
SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 9:55am
500guy wrote:
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes...
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes anyone outside 30th not on the lead lap gets flagged off.

Anyone who makes the Motos are bad ass rider no doubt but there are 3-4 different levels out there these day's.

I hate to see some guy getting beat to death out there affecting the results of the leaders.
iro wrote:
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off? I...
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off?

I really cannot believe you are serious. I nibbled but i dont like the bait...

man I already hate the "off" season.
That was already covered.
He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place.
RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times.

But not because they can't run the race pace.
zippy895
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8/24/2014 10:03am
zippy895 wrote:
if you were a privateer,would you even bother signing up for a pro event if they told you,once you are lapped your done?these guys would save...
if you were a privateer,would you even bother signing up for a pro event if they told you,once you are lapped your done?these guys would save the money and dominate local races and always realize the next step up to pro is not happening,unless you are a freak of nature right from the local level.
SpotMeBro wrote:
If you're that far off the pace, yes. Because to make it, you have to be a freak. This isnt stick and ball sports where Bench...
If you're that far off the pace, yes. Because to make it, you have to be a freak.

This isnt stick and ball sports where Bench warmers are making 300K -2-3 Million as backups.

At some point all kids realize Santa and the Tooth Fairy don't exist. They Cry, then move on.

Daniel Blair is a good example. Super Fast. Realized he has to find a different way sooner, which is way better than later.

Races and rides occaisonally for fun.
This is a sport with little to no future for most. And with rising costs is getting worse.
well,you may as well say goodbye now to promx.because that would be the first chapter of a dying sport.

The Shop

brewrabb
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8/24/2014 10:16am
"well,you may as well say goodbye now to promx.because that would be the first chapter of a dying sport."

If this sport is dying it is due to the high cost of and lack of affordable racing (i.e. no more 2 strokes). Lets face it, this is an expensive sport. And when mom and pop cannot afford to fix a grenaded thumper it may be time to look else ware and to beat the dead horse; change the displacement rules favouring the 4 stroke.
Jarid332
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Fantasy
8/24/2014 10:19am
SpotMeBro wrote:
Which is nothing. Most of these lappers arent even racing. Most are out there riding off line, not jumping the jumps etc, just staying out of...
Which is nothing.

Most of these lappers arent even racing. Most are out there riding off line, not jumping the jumps etc, just staying out of the way of the fast dudes.

Im not talking about a lapper like Peick or RV or Reed who crashed, Im talking about guys that really shouldnt be out there.

A 107% rule would be great. With a 2 minute lap time, if you are more than 2:08.5, you're out.
Or maybe make it 110% tops.

Lots of these guys are 10-20 seconds a lap off. Think about that.


Lappers should have to ride snowmobiles with go go dancers on the back!
8/24/2014 10:39am
So the downside of pulling riders off that are laps down is that it would hurt their feelings?
mark_swart
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8/24/2014 10:46am
What was even the rationale behind only paying points to half of the field? I'm guessing it's a holdover to a time long past, when things were done manually and not by computer. It was probably just to save somebody some work.

I really like the idea of paying points back to 40th. Even if they only did it in the 450 class. That might give 250 riders more incentive to move up.

I do not like the idea of flagging off the lappers. First, where else are they going to get the experience of racing 30 + 2 against the best in the world? Second, it would just look weird to have 10 guys on the track at the end of the race. If they paid points all the way to 40th, I think we might see less "riding around" and more racing throughout the pack.
Gringoe
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8/24/2014 10:46am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2014 10:47am
500guy wrote:
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes...
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes anyone outside 30th not on the lead lap gets flagged off.

Anyone who makes the Motos are bad ass rider no doubt but there are 3-4 different levels out there these day's.

I hate to see some guy getting beat to death out there affecting the results of the leaders.
iro wrote:
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off? I...
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off?

I really cannot believe you are serious. I nibbled but i dont like the bait...

man I already hate the "off" season.
SpotMeBro wrote:
That was already covered. He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place. RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times. But...
That was already covered.
He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place.
RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times.

But not because they can't run the race pace.
Ricky has been lapped like 5 times in his career.

And 4 were 2000 sx :p
brocster
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8/24/2014 10:50am
500guy wrote:
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes...
The lappers are getting worse all the time, I wonder how bad it might be to start flagging them off the track completely after 15 minutes anyone outside 30th not on the lead lap gets flagged off.

Anyone who makes the Motos are bad ass rider no doubt but there are 3-4 different levels out there these day's.

I hate to see some guy getting beat to death out there affecting the results of the leaders.
iro wrote:
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off? I...
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off?

I really cannot believe you are serious. I nibbled but i dont like the bait...

man I already hate the "off" season.
SpotMeBro wrote:
That was already covered. He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place. RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times. But...
That was already covered.
He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place.
RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times.

But not because they can't run the race pace.
show me the equation for that???



SpotMeBro
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8/24/2014 11:03am
iro wrote:
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off? I...
So say if Roczen, while leading, crashes at minute 15 and gets himself back up and racing in 30th, you're saying he should pull off?

I really cannot believe you are serious. I nibbled but i dont like the bait...

man I already hate the "off" season.
SpotMeBro wrote:
That was already covered. He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place. RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times. But...
That was already covered.
He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place.
RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times.

But not because they can't run the race pace.
brocster wrote:
show me the equation for that???



Thats the problem. You cant just waive off lappers per se.

RV can be a lapper from a first turn pileup.

Maybe the above poster has an idea....points all the way back, to stop the guys from Just riding around trying to stay out of the way of the fast guys?

Or, I'll say it again, the 107% rule, or even 110% to be lenient for a qualifying time.

If your qualifying time is 10, 20 seconds or more off the pace, maybe its time to stay local or do something else before you get hurt?

Moto Soul Mag
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8/24/2014 11:07am
It's going to be tough to develop the speed and endurance to beat the top guys if you are kicked off the track before it's over.
steve_97060
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8/24/2014 11:16am
It's going to be tough to develop the speed and endurance to beat the top guys if you are kicked off the track before it's over.
yeah, because lappers have caused so many accidents and altered the outcomes of so many races and championships over the years that something must be done to stop this carnage.

because these professional riders who have been racing their whole life have never had to deal with or learned how to get around slower riders on a track, shit just ain't fair, squids gotta go ..
The Rock
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8/24/2014 11:19am
mark_swart wrote:
What was even the rationale behind only paying points to half of the field? I'm guessing it's a holdover to a time long past, when things...
What was even the rationale behind only paying points to half of the field? I'm guessing it's a holdover to a time long past, when things were done manually and not by computer. It was probably just to save somebody some work.

I really like the idea of paying points back to 40th. Even if they only did it in the 450 class. That might give 250 riders more incentive to move up.

I do not like the idea of flagging off the lappers. First, where else are they going to get the experience of racing 30 + 2 against the best in the world? Second, it would just look weird to have 10 guys on the track at the end of the race. If they paid points all the way to 40th, I think we might see less "riding around" and more racing throughout the pack.
+1

Also props to 500Guy for thinking outside the box. My vote is either pay points to 40th or ......... I actually don't have an "or" suggestion that is better than paying points to 40th.
brimx153
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8/24/2014 11:19am
SpotMeBro wrote:
That was already covered. He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place. RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times. But...
That was already covered.
He means guys that shouldnt be out there in the first place.
RV, RC, JS7 have all been lapped numerous times.

But not because they can't run the race pace.
brocster wrote:
show me the equation for that???



SpotMeBro wrote:
Thats the problem. You cant just waive off lappers per se. RV can be a lapper from a first turn pileup. Maybe the above poster has...
Thats the problem. You cant just waive off lappers per se.

RV can be a lapper from a first turn pileup.

Maybe the above poster has an idea....points all the way back, to stop the guys from Just riding around trying to stay out of the way of the fast guys?

Or, I'll say it again, the 107% rule, or even 110% to be lenient for a qualifying time.

If your qualifying time is 10, 20 seconds or more off the pace, maybe its time to stay local or do something else before you get hurt?

then you can have a mud race , and if you cut everyone that was 20 secs a lap down , you could end up with a 15 man gate , I still think the big problem was the track , plus the top 4 are sooooooooo much quicker than everyone else , 30 man gate , if you qualify fair play , you deserve to race ,
The Rock
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8/24/2014 11:24am
It's going to be tough to develop the speed and endurance to beat the top guys if you are kicked off the track before it's over.
yeah, because lappers have caused so many accidents and altered the outcomes of so many races and championships over the years that something must be done...
yeah, because lappers have caused so many accidents and altered the outcomes of so many races and championships over the years that something must be done to stop this carnage.

because these professional riders who have been racing their whole life have never had to deal with or learned how to get around slower riders on a track, shit just ain't fair, squids gotta go ..
The excellent decision to expand SX mains to 22 rider fields didn't result in any lapper problems. The net effect were many racers got much needed racing experience thanks to this heads up move by FELD/AMA/FIM.

What about a 1 moto super final for the 30th to 40th fastest qualifiers for 250/450 racers?
brimx153
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8/24/2014 11:26am
I think a big big problem is the long ruts on the straight s, they should flatten them between motos . leave the track as bumpy as it get s, leave the ruts in the corners , if the track did nt have mad ruts on the straight , the lapers could move over on the straight and let the leaders throught ,and not be stuck on the same line . these long ruts , were hardly ever there in the two storke era , and lapers weren't as much of an issue , plus it will create better racing, cause the riders can move and use all the track ,
The Rock
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8/24/2014 11:34am
Long ruts a problem? Did you watch the 2013 MXoN? This is MX not scrambles.
wow123
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8/24/2014 11:46am
yeah, because lappers have caused so many accidents and altered the outcomes of so many races and championships over the years that something must be done...
yeah, because lappers have caused so many accidents and altered the outcomes of so many races and championships over the years that something must be done to stop this carnage.

because these professional riders who have been racing their whole life have never had to deal with or learned how to get around slower riders on a track, shit just ain't fair, squids gotta go ..
dry as atacarma dust.....but......sweet.......smelling
Underdog999
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8/24/2014 11:53am
Squid-mom wrote:
I wouldn't say it is a weak field because 99.9% of you couldn't run with that 'weak field'. That said, I think the problem is getting...
I wouldn't say it is a weak field because 99.9% of you couldn't run with that 'weak field'. That said, I think the problem is getting worse only because of the economy. The top guys have so much and the privateers have so little. Years ago there were alot more riders getting help than there is now. Many of the back markers have none of the 'works' stuff on their bikes, have to work other jobs, etc etc. Another reason I dislike the schedule zig-zagging across the country, it is going to continue to get worse if something isn't changed to make the privateers stand a chance.
I hate it when people start their argument with something like "99.9% of you couldn't run with that 'weak field'" . Well, that's stating the obvious! We are writing on this forum and not pro racers!

I do agree with your argument about the schedule zig-zagging across the country, though. This nutso schedule makes it extremely difficult on everyone, and doubly so on the privateers. Whomever came up with the schedule, for whatever reasons, should take a long hard look at it for the 2015 season. You should be making it as easy as possible on the riders, not like a frogger game!
brimx153
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8/24/2014 12:00pm
The Rock wrote:
Long ruts a problem? Did you watch the 2013 MXoN? This is MX not scrambles.
I think they are a problem for lappers trying to get out of the way , I don't get , why fan s think they made better racing .people see a pic of 10 ruts , and there like wow cool 10 lines , when in reality there one good one that 90% will go through , and another one that is nearly as fast, and 8 other ones no one will use cause they ll lose to much time , love ruts in turns .the more the better , but on the straights it leads to less lines , JMO, let the track get as bumpy as hell , just hate slot car racing
wow123
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8/24/2014 12:04pm
The Rock wrote:
The excellent decision to expand SX mains to 22 rider fields didn't result in any lapper problems. The net effect were many racers got much needed...
The excellent decision to expand SX mains to 22 rider fields didn't result in any lapper problems. The net effect were many racers got much needed racing experience thanks to this heads up move by FELD/AMA/FIM.

What about a 1 moto super final for the 30th to 40th fastest qualifiers for 250/450 racers?
there is no magic formula.

WhipMeister
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8/24/2014 12:05pm
Lappers are part of the challenge. You want to run up front? You know you're going to deal with traffic. I scream 'get out of the way!' at the TV just like the rest of you. But it's part of the skill set to manage the race.
The Rock
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8/24/2014 12:22pm
The Rock wrote:
Long ruts a problem? Did you watch the 2013 MXoN? This is MX not scrambles.
brimx153 wrote:
I think they are a problem for lappers trying to get out of the way , I don't get , why fan s think they made...
I think they are a problem for lappers trying to get out of the way , I don't get , why fan s think they made better racing .people see a pic of 10 ruts , and there like wow cool 10 lines , when in reality there one good one that 90% will go through , and another one that is nearly as fast, and 8 other ones no one will use cause they ll lose to much time , love ruts in turns .the more the better , but on the straights it leads to less lines , JMO, let the track get as bumpy as hell , just hate slot car racing
I hate long ruts as a racer but I am an amateur. IMO if you can't race MX tracks with long ruts you shouldn't turn pro.
djc
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8/24/2014 12:26pm
Lappers paid a shit load of money to get to the race and enter but will be told "hey in fifteen minutes get the fuck off the track so we can make room for the five fast guys and go home". They qualified and have every right to be there. It's part of a race and they are in a race also. And I also agree they should give points to all riders on the track
zippy895
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8/24/2014 12:28pm
brewrabb wrote:
"well,you may as well say goodbye now to promx.because that would be the first chapter of a dying sport." If this sport is dying it is...
"well,you may as well say goodbye now to promx.because that would be the first chapter of a dying sport."

If this sport is dying it is due to the high cost of and lack of affordable racing (i.e. no more 2 strokes). Lets face it, this is an expensive sport. And when mom and pop cannot afford to fix a grenaded thumper it may be time to look else ware and to beat the dead horse; change the displacement rules favouring the 4 stroke.
ok,its the second chapter in a dying sport.
bd
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8/24/2014 12:29pm
Shorter tracks + Faster Riders = More Lap Riders

Its part of racing, these riders do a fantastic job get through lapped riders. Some of you remind me of Roger Goodell - willing change an almost perfect sport and fuck it up.

Powers to be should be concerned with the following: increase exposure to new markets, demographics, and sponsors; safety. DC is moto, is doing an incredible job.

Not shortening mains, making engines smaller, pit stops on middle of moto, joker lanes in supercross series, no mud races and any of the other bullshit people on Vital come up to pussify the sport.
zippy895
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8/24/2014 12:36pm
It's going to be tough to develop the speed and endurance to beat the top guys if you are kicked off the track before it's over.
true.its a challenge needed.
but sure,everyone on that gate should get points.last guy to qualify should get 1 point.then ramp points up from there.
this way,even the guys in back will continue with some form of extra motivation,instead of feeling defeated.
8/24/2014 12:46pm
Why not have 60 riders on the track at once? 20 starting double file?

olds cool
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8/24/2014 12:53pm
I didn't read every word word of every single post in this thread but my interpretation of this discussion is that the privateers that pay the full entry fees out of their own pockets and drive back and forth across the country multiple times on their own dime, while the "fast guys" that have their fees and travel expenses paid by their supporters, don't deserve to get to ride a full moto. Mmm...kay.


Yes, I know that run-on sentence was toooo long.

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