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How many neck injurys have happen with a neck brace on?
I guess there never was a collarbone broke before the Leatt.
My last race I got tossed off over a jump, landed on my head and broke a rib.
Guess there is no need to wear my Leatt any more.
Well ! Explain this one. Head on into a face of a jump. I walked away with a bad headache
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Dang Leatt
Thomas, same goes for you.
Let me try to explain myself a little better for you slow guys, I studied kinesiology (study of movement) and human performance in school so I have a background here. The exact mechanics of catastrophic neck injury aren't really known. There are too many variables to consider and you can't test against any of them. You can speculate and guess and try to limit range of motion but that doesn't mean it will stop a spinal injury. Ever hear of a compression fracture? probably not.. sorry...
Plus, spinal injuries aren't just about the incident themselves. A lot of it relies on the medical care you get afterwards (how fast you get help and the quality of that help).
And Thomas, I have been thrown over the bars so many times I can't count and my neck is still fine. Are you saying yours would have broken had it not been for the brace? It's that type of statement that led us to this point. Like I said in my previous post, there are very few spinal injuries before the leatt. Very few when you consider the number of people riding. Now everyone that crashes while wearing a leatt swears that it saved their neck. It isn't true.
How many have injuries have occured with the leatt in use? There isn't a large enough sample to prove anything yet. And when there is one, and there will be, everyone will start to understand. Do they help prevent injury? They might. No one knows.
And KMX, please, go ahead an stop wearing your helmet...
But ......
This Man Has No Neck ! ! ! !
I doubt a knee off u sympletonz wil git that won
awww fuck it...
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't wear the braces. That's not my point. What I am saying ,and I will make it clear, is that there is no proof they do work and one shouldn't rely on them. Do they help? No telling. The idea that they should be made mandatory is ridiculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_n6XNkzS00&feature=related
I'm a believer.
I just don't think it should be mandatory.
MR
And Jabr, you made some very good points.
I'm pointing out the fact that there is no literature published showing helmets are beneficial in motocross. Yet no one on this board is ready to argue with me that they're beneficial to use. We all agree they are.
I'm prepared to argue, empirically, that wearing a brace that limits flexion and extension of the c-spine can limit injuries to that portion of the spine. Won't do anything for direct compression injuries, but there's no published data on the mechanism of c-spine injuries either.
I can give you this suggestion though....go watch the video of Magoo's injury, and tell me you don't think that a brace that limits extension of the c-spine wouldn't have done something to limit his risk of injury in that accident.
Then we can continue this discussion.....
MR
Pit Row
The simple fact is that reducing the range of motion in that highly sensitive area of the neck/spine has shown to reduce catastrophic injury in nearly every contact sport. Our sport was late in bringing such a device into use.
My experience is not scienetific or medical....simply experience.Having fit hundreds of Leatts, i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury.I have not been that person who screams "they would have died for sure".......you can't know these things.
We are fortunate to have the choice to wear a protective device or not.Some will choose not to wear it.....O.K..........myself and many others(the majority ??) choose to wear a neck brace.
MANDATORY.........not yet........i believe in letting people make choices.Will AMA/DMG/FIM make it mandatory ????........well we'll see. Many pro level auto racing organizations have made the Hans mandatory (same principal as Leatt).
In a litigious society like we live in,they may end up forced to do so.
TomZ
I dont even like thinking about what could have been if i didnt have my leatt brace on and for some people to still be doubting this awesome piece of safety equipment is beyond me. For those of you that have seen Donn Maedas crash on transworldmx you cant possibly say that the leatt brace didnt do its job for him that day. Oh and jabjr222 i can see exactly what your saying how it isnt proven and stuff but if theres a piece if equipment that can reduce the risk of a neck injury by just 1% its surely worth buying.
I wear one.. Although I agree with all the skepticism and I don't think it should be mandatory. I feel that the possibility of it helping out weighs the possibility of it hurting.
Can we get a dumpster day here and clean up some? It's getting really bad in here lately.
Like many others said, its subjective, some people like them, some people dont, I just happen to be one of the ones who like them. And It just goes to show how immature you are because you cant state your own opinions without critisizing others.
Now, I have never ridden with a neck brace, much less crashed in one, but I know 90% of my crashes were simple drops in a corner, low speed affairs... 8% were probably related to whoops or whooped out sections that bit me while only 2% were maybe really hard, slam you to the ground and tweak everything type of falls. In those 2% of crashes, I would have loved to have had the extra protection of the brace but obviously, I didn't need it.
With that said, you never know how you are going to crash and you never know what will happen. As I proposed on a different thread is that we need a study that looks at crashes at various levels of the sport. How are we crashing? What injuries are being sustained? What is the real prevalence of various injuries and what is the mechanism that is causing them? Then once we have some data, and this should be an ongoing study to protect the sport's riders, then we can make some real decisions on power, track design and safety gear. To my knowledge, nothing like this is being done. Maybe the Asterick guys are doing it at the pro level but I don't know.
Once we have some data and can hopefully narrow down the causes of injuries including catastrophic spinal injuries, we can then make some informed decisions on what needs to be done.
I am not saying that neck braces don't work. Again, by limiting flexion and extension of the neck, in theory, it should work. But with a compression fracture, there is no protection there. And just because someone hasn't suffered a spinal injury while wearing a brace, doesn't mean they stop them. Again, the sample is too small.
What I am against, in no uncertain terms, is a company putting out a product and the magazines and people in the sport pushing everyone to wear that product. It is blind faith in something that may not help at all.
The pics that were posted of the broken brace for example, high impact, the brace broke, what if the brace breaks enough, or does enough damage to the collarbones, to allow for the limit on flexion of the neck to be reached where a spinal injury takes place?
It is impossible to do real studies on this and the closest we will ever come to figuring out what is really happening in our sport is a survey of tracks and injuries. I am in no way ridiculing riders who wear the braces but I am against everyone who crashes while wearing the brace swearing it saved their neck. There is no evidence either way.
What I am saying is that it shouldn't be subjective. It should be base on SOMETHING tangible. Why do you like them and what is your basis for this?
No, I wouldn't say this shows my immaturity, although that point is arguable. I can state my opinions backed up with critical thought. All you can do is throw an opinion out there with no basis other than how you "feel" inside.
Tomz, and I say this with respect as you have been exposed to the brace far more than I have, but my point is that you have no way of knowing whether injury would have occurred or not.
But this is not the case when it comes to neck braces and injury. I take that very seriously as we all should. I just don't want it to be thrown together haphazardly. I want there to be a real discussion based on the most facts we can uncover.
Don't take me or anyone else on here so personally.
The principal of the Leatt is not the same as the HANS.
It is two different animals.
A HANS is held down and secured into place by the 5-point harness holding in the driver and the helmet is then tethered to the HANS by straps. It eliminates forward momentum hyperextension in the event of high impact - rapid stopping incidents.
They may appear similar, they work and act differently
mxbabys doctor said it saved a life. this must be true.
my opinion on the matter is, i do believe they break collarbones far too easy. but i will continue to wear mine because i believe it will help prevent a neck injury. id rather have a broken collarbone than a broken neck.
that being said, can i join your race team mxgirl?
SX & MX or are you guys SX only contracts too?
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