leatt braces

Camp332
Posts
8692
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Zoo Jersey, USA
10/2/2008 5:15pm
What in the hell is happening to this place?
kmx384
Posts
23
Joined
4/27/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/2/2008 5:25pm
Hahaha, I think I'm going to stop wearing boots and a helmet too ... false sense of security
Thomas6x
Posts
31
Joined
9/30/2008
Location
Atwood, TN, USA
10/2/2008 5:49pm
Maybe in china should be mandatory.
How many neck injurys have happen with a neck brace on?
I guess there never was a collarbone broke before the Leatt.
My last race I got tossed off over a jump, landed on my head and broke a rib.
Guess there is no need to wear my Leatt any more.
armpumpking
Posts
187
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
10/2/2008 6:07pm




Well ! Explain this one. Head on into a face of a jump. I walked away with a bad headache

The Shop

Thomas6x
Posts
31
Joined
9/30/2008
Location
Atwood, TN, USA
10/2/2008 6:12pm
Maybe you wouldn't have had a headache it you hadn't wore it.
Dang Leatt
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/2/2008 6:14pm
KMX, STFU noob... I'm sorry that you are so simple you can't understand my point.

Thomas, same goes for you.

Let me try to explain myself a little better for you slow guys, I studied kinesiology (study of movement) and human performance in school so I have a background here. The exact mechanics of catastrophic neck injury aren't really known. There are too many variables to consider and you can't test against any of them. You can speculate and guess and try to limit range of motion but that doesn't mean it will stop a spinal injury. Ever hear of a compression fracture? probably not.. sorry...

Plus, spinal injuries aren't just about the incident themselves. A lot of it relies on the medical care you get afterwards (how fast you get help and the quality of that help).

And Thomas, I have been thrown over the bars so many times I can't count and my neck is still fine. Are you saying yours would have broken had it not been for the brace? It's that type of statement that led us to this point. Like I said in my previous post, there are very few spinal injuries before the leatt. Very few when you consider the number of people riding. Now everyone that crashes while wearing a leatt swears that it saved their neck. It isn't true.

How many have injuries have occured with the leatt in use? There isn't a large enough sample to prove anything yet. And when there is one, and there will be, everyone will start to understand. Do they help prevent injury? They might. No one knows.

And KMX, please, go ahead an stop wearing your helmet...
KMC440
Posts
7764
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
10/2/2008 6:19pm
Dr Scott would wear a Leatt...

But ......

This Man Has No Neck ! ! ! !




I doubt a knee off u sympletonz wil git that won

awww fuck it...
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/2/2008 6:20pm
[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa194/lm128217/MVC-007S.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa194/lm128217/MVC-006S.jpg[/IMG] Well ! Explain this one. Head on into a face of a jump. I walked away with a bad headache




Well ! Explain this one. Head on into a face of a jump. I walked away with a bad headache
It proves nothing... thats my point.. it can't be proven. Please see initial posts. I guess you have never crashed before and landed on your head? I know for a fact I have had crashes that would have destroyed the brace, AS WE ALL HAVE.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't wear the braces. That's not my point. What I am saying ,and I will make it clear, is that there is no proof they do work and one shouldn't rely on them. Do they help? No telling. The idea that they should be made mandatory is ridiculous.
4mxonly
Posts
1060
Joined
2/17/2008
Location
Middle Of The Hand, MI, USA
10/2/2008 6:24pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2008 6:27pm
Jabjr222 wrote:
You guys that think its a good idea to make neck braces mandatory are f'ing retards. There is NO proof they work. Of course in theory...
You guys that think its a good idea to make neck braces mandatory are f'ing retards. There is NO proof they work. Of course in theory it sounds plausible. But there is no real proof. Don't give me that "well the doctor said" bullshit either. Doctors always say that kind of stuff.

Until there is PROOF and evidence that they work, they are bunk. And yes, they can and do cause more damage then not wearing them.

The reason I am so against neck braces is that they could give a false sense of security (and there is no evidence they work). To me, at this point, it is a scam.

Now, you will say as noob jB324, would you rather have a broken neck or collarbone, of course the answer is collarbone but that's not the point. Just because someone hasn't suffered a catastrophic spinal injury while wearing one doesn't mean someone won't.

Think about it this way, how many catastrophic spinal injuries have we had in moto up till the point of the Leatt coming on the market? Very few compared to the number of people who ride and race (one is too many and I never want to see anyone hurt, don't get me wrong) but now that the Leatt is out, every rider that crashes hard swears the leatt saved him. It is bullshit.

Train and condition yourself as well as you can. Be smart and don't ride over your head and just accept the fact that moto is dangerous. Don't take this risk is you don't like it. But putting faith into or requiring that you wear a leatt is nothing more than a scam.
I think the Leatt is a step in the right direction... but not even close to a perfect solution (the high frequency of collar bone breaks are a good example). If you don't believe that the Leatt brace is a major factor in collar bone breaks then talk to someone who runs a high profile motocross school in GA. While some people may have very good reasons to highly recommend the brace, I think you're right about how a lot of people jump on the Leatt miracle band wagon. I'm not an engineer by any means but I think if Leatt could publish some convincing evidence that the tests they are performing are industry leading, and not just a marketing gimmick, then they may be able to silence some of their biggest critics. I also agree that to say they should be mandatory is outrageously pretentious.
Thomas6x
Posts
31
Joined
9/30/2008
Location
Atwood, TN, USA
10/2/2008 6:32pm
Well,I'll just wear mine and pretend I'm safe.
I'm a believer.
I just don't think it should be mandatory.
drmarkr
Posts
3226
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
10/2/2008 6:38pm
Can someone point me to the double blind, peer reviewed study that demonstrated helmets were effective in preventing head injuries in motocross?

MR
4mxonly
Posts
1060
Joined
2/17/2008
Location
Middle Of The Hand, MI, USA
10/2/2008 6:49pm
drmarkr wrote:
Can someone point me to the double blind, peer reviewed study that demonstrated helmets were effective in preventing head injuries in motocross?

MR
that's a whole other can of worms...
cr12500
Posts
71
Joined
7/13/2007
Location
USA
10/2/2008 7:03pm
Man, Dave has been slacking at his job. This place is terrible.

And Jabr, you made some very good points.
drmarkr
Posts
3226
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
10/2/2008 7:06pm
No it's not.....we're arguing about the science (or lack of) supporting the use of a Leatt brace.

I'm pointing out the fact that there is no literature published showing helmets are beneficial in motocross. Yet no one on this board is ready to argue with me that they're beneficial to use. We all agree they are.

I'm prepared to argue, empirically, that wearing a brace that limits flexion and extension of the c-spine can limit injuries to that portion of the spine. Won't do anything for direct compression injuries, but there's no published data on the mechanism of c-spine injuries either.

I can give you this suggestion though....go watch the video of Magoo's injury, and tell me you don't think that a brace that limits extension of the c-spine wouldn't have done something to limit his risk of injury in that accident.

Then we can continue this discussion.....

MR
jB324
Posts
26
Joined
9/28/2008
Location
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
10/2/2008 7:13pm
Jabjr222 wrote:
You guys that think its a good idea to make neck braces mandatory are f'ing retards. There is NO proof they work. Of course in theory...
You guys that think its a good idea to make neck braces mandatory are f'ing retards. There is NO proof they work. Of course in theory it sounds plausible. But there is no real proof. Don't give me that "well the doctor said" bullshit either. Doctors always say that kind of stuff.

Until there is PROOF and evidence that they work, they are bunk. And yes, they can and do cause more damage then not wearing them.

The reason I am so against neck braces is that they could give a false sense of security (and there is no evidence they work). To me, at this point, it is a scam.

Now, you will say as noob jB324, would you rather have a broken neck or collarbone, of course the answer is collarbone but that's not the point. Just because someone hasn't suffered a catastrophic spinal injury while wearing one doesn't mean someone won't.

Think about it this way, how many catastrophic spinal injuries have we had in moto up till the point of the Leatt coming on the market? Very few compared to the number of people who ride and race (one is too many and I never want to see anyone hurt, don't get me wrong) but now that the Leatt is out, every rider that crashes hard swears the leatt saved him. It is bullshit.

Train and condition yourself as well as you can. Be smart and don't ride over your head and just accept the fact that moto is dangerous. Don't take this risk is you don't like it. But putting faith into or requiring that you wear a leatt is nothing more than a scam.
"Now, you will say as noob jB324" man im sorry im a noob or whatever the hell thats suspose to mean but i dont sit my ass on freakin vitalmx posting a damn novel on why i am against a leatt brace. the man simply posted a simple question that could be answered without you dumb pricks jumping all over his shit. as far as im concerned your not shit. Smile Smile Smile Smile I LOVE EVERYONE
4mxonly
Posts
1060
Joined
2/17/2008
Location
Middle Of The Hand, MI, USA
10/2/2008 7:19pm
Like I said before, I think the Leatt is a step in the right direction. That being said, I think there is lots of room for development, that will hopefully address the collar bone issues and better disperse shock (like a leatt RXR hybrid). Now, I'm no expert, but from what I've seen and heard, a lot of people are not satisfied with testing. By the way, I wear a leatt and the sense of security I get from it is similar to that of knee braces. When I said that the helmet issue is a whole other monster, I meant that the testing is not very realistic either (IMO), especially considering the evolution of faster bikes and bigger obstacles.
jB324
Posts
26
Joined
9/28/2008
Location
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
10/2/2008 7:26pm
of course no one is going to produce something like the Leatt and expect it to be perfect on the first go...it just wont happen. i agree strongly with you 4mxonly that it is a step in the right direction. of course people will say other wise but people have there opinions but Jabjr222 will post something with a smart remark saying all his big words since he seems to be a freakin rocket scientist or something...
TomZ
Posts
708
Joined
7/24/2008
Location
West Bloomfield, MI, USA
10/3/2008 5:37am
drmarkr wrote:
No it's not.....we're arguing about the science (or lack of) supporting the use of a Leatt brace. I'm pointing out the fact that there is no...
No it's not.....we're arguing about the science (or lack of) supporting the use of a Leatt brace.

I'm pointing out the fact that there is no literature published showing helmets are beneficial in motocross. Yet no one on this board is ready to argue with me that they're beneficial to use. We all agree they are.

I'm prepared to argue, empirically, that wearing a brace that limits flexion and extension of the c-spine can limit injuries to that portion of the spine. Won't do anything for direct compression injuries, but there's no published data on the mechanism of c-spine injuries either.

I can give you this suggestion though....go watch the video of Magoo's injury, and tell me you don't think that a brace that limits extension of the c-spine wouldn't have done something to limit his risk of injury in that accident.

Then we can continue this discussion.....

MR
Thank you DrMark...............I have said on this forum and many others that there will continue to be a lack of pure scientific evidence to support Leatt,helmets,knee braces,LockJaws,gloves,boots,chest protectors,aspirin,gatorade and many other things.
The simple fact is that reducing the range of motion in that highly sensitive area of the neck/spine has shown to reduce catastrophic injury in nearly every contact sport. Our sport was late in bringing such a device into use.
My experience is not scienetific or medical....simply experience.Having fit hundreds of Leatts, i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury.I have not been that person who screams "they would have died for sure".......you can't know these things.
We are fortunate to have the choice to wear a protective device or not.Some will choose not to wear it.....O.K..........myself and many others(the majority ??) choose to wear a neck brace.
MANDATORY.........not yet........i believe in letting people make choices.Will AMA/DMG/FIM make it mandatory ????........well we'll see. Many pro level auto racing organizations have made the Hans mandatory (same principal as Leatt).
In a litigious society like we live in,they may end up forced to do so.

TomZ
joe101uk
Posts
1075
Joined
8/16/2008
Location
London, GB
10/3/2008 6:55am
for me personally my leatt brace is worth its weight in gold ! i had a big crash at a motocross track in essex. hit a lil tank slapper and before i knew i was over the bars and into a tree head first, i came away with 2 fractures in my thoracic vertebrae region, 2 fractures in my lumbar region and also 2 crushed lumbar vertebrae ( which have now been replaced with surgical cement ). My arai helmet had a huge crack going straight down the back side of the helmet towards wear my leatt brace would sit.
I dont even like thinking about what could have been if i didnt have my leatt brace on and for some people to still be doubting this awesome piece of safety equipment is beyond me. For those of you that have seen Donn Maedas crash on transworldmx you cant possibly say that the leatt brace didnt do its job for him that day. Oh and jabjr222 i can see exactly what your saying how it isnt proven and stuff but if theres a piece if equipment that can reduce the risk of a neck injury by just 1% its surely worth buying.
bogdan912
Posts
2722
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Estell Manor, NJ, USA
10/3/2008 7:15am
Mxbaby511 wrote:
My proof is, that Nick Hayes wrecked and if he wasnt wearing his leatt his doctors say he wouldnt be alive. THANK YOU
More info on this?

I wear one.. Although I agree with all the skepticism and I don't think it should be mandatory. I feel that the possibility of it helping out weighs the possibility of it hurting.


Can we get a dumpster day here and clean up some? It's getting really bad in here lately.
Mxbaby511
Posts
7
Joined
10/2/2008
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
10/3/2008 8:37am
unii #336 wrote:
should rider have to wear them next season ?
Im sorry that your not mature enough to acceot others opinions without name calling.
Like many others said, its subjective, some people like them, some people dont, I just happen to be one of the ones who like them. And It just goes to show how immature you are because you cant state your own opinions without critisizing others.
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/3/2008 10:52am
I am all for making the the sport safer and gear more effective. I think when you look at helmets, there is pretty good evidence they help. How many times have I fallen and wacked my head with either the ground or the bike and hopped right up... I think it is easy to see that helmets, by spreading the impact force over a larger surface area will help reduce head/brain injuries... I know I would be dead, f'ing dead, many times over if it weren't for my helmet.

Now, I have never ridden with a neck brace, much less crashed in one, but I know 90% of my crashes were simple drops in a corner, low speed affairs... 8% were probably related to whoops or whooped out sections that bit me while only 2% were maybe really hard, slam you to the ground and tweak everything type of falls. In those 2% of crashes, I would have loved to have had the extra protection of the brace but obviously, I didn't need it.

With that said, you never know how you are going to crash and you never know what will happen. As I proposed on a different thread is that we need a study that looks at crashes at various levels of the sport. How are we crashing? What injuries are being sustained? What is the real prevalence of various injuries and what is the mechanism that is causing them? Then once we have some data, and this should be an ongoing study to protect the sport's riders, then we can make some real decisions on power, track design and safety gear. To my knowledge, nothing like this is being done. Maybe the Asterick guys are doing it at the pro level but I don't know.

Once we have some data and can hopefully narrow down the causes of injuries including catastrophic spinal injuries, we can then make some informed decisions on what needs to be done.

I am not saying that neck braces don't work. Again, by limiting flexion and extension of the neck, in theory, it should work. But with a compression fracture, there is no protection there. And just because someone hasn't suffered a spinal injury while wearing a brace, doesn't mean they stop them. Again, the sample is too small.

What I am against, in no uncertain terms, is a company putting out a product and the magazines and people in the sport pushing everyone to wear that product. It is blind faith in something that may not help at all.

The pics that were posted of the broken brace for example, high impact, the brace broke, what if the brace breaks enough, or does enough damage to the collarbones, to allow for the limit on flexion of the neck to be reached where a spinal injury takes place?

It is impossible to do real studies on this and the closest we will ever come to figuring out what is really happening in our sport is a survey of tracks and injuries. I am in no way ridiculing riders who wear the braces but I am against everyone who crashes while wearing the brace swearing it saved their neck. There is no evidence either way.
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/3/2008 10:55am
Mxbaby511 wrote:
Im sorry that your not mature enough to acceot others opinions without name calling. Like many others said, its subjective, some people like them, some people...
Im sorry that your not mature enough to acceot others opinions without name calling.
Like many others said, its subjective, some people like them, some people dont, I just happen to be one of the ones who like them. And It just goes to show how immature you are because you cant state your own opinions without critisizing others.
You want to talk about maturity? Go back and re-read your asinine posts. You are an embarrassment. There was no name calling, just an observation based on what you have said thus far.

What I am saying is that it shouldn't be subjective. It should be base on SOMETHING tangible. Why do you like them and what is your basis for this?

No, I wouldn't say this shows my immaturity, although that point is arguable. I can state my opinions backed up with critical thought. All you can do is throw an opinion out there with no basis other than how you "feel" inside.
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/3/2008 11:00am
TomZ wrote:
Thank you DrMark...............I have said on this forum and many others that there will continue to be a lack of pure scientific evidence to support Leatt,helmets,knee...
Thank you DrMark...............I have said on this forum and many others that there will continue to be a lack of pure scientific evidence to support Leatt,helmets,knee braces,LockJaws,gloves,boots,chest protectors,aspirin,gatorade and many other things.
The simple fact is that reducing the range of motion in that highly sensitive area of the neck/spine has shown to reduce catastrophic injury in nearly every contact sport. Our sport was late in bringing such a device into use.
My experience is not scienetific or medical....simply experience.Having fit hundreds of Leatts, i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury.I have not been that person who screams "they would have died for sure".......you can't know these things.
We are fortunate to have the choice to wear a protective device or not.Some will choose not to wear it.....O.K..........myself and many others(the majority ??) choose to wear a neck brace.
MANDATORY.........not yet........i believe in letting people make choices.Will AMA/DMG/FIM make it mandatory ????........well we'll see. Many pro level auto racing organizations have made the Hans mandatory (same principal as Leatt).
In a litigious society like we live in,they may end up forced to do so.

TomZ
"i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury."

Tomz, and I say this with respect as you have been exposed to the brace far more than I have, but my point is that you have no way of knowing whether injury would have occurred or not.
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/3/2008 11:06am
jB324 wrote:
of course no one is going to produce something like the Leatt and expect it to be perfect on the first go...it just wont happen. i...
of course no one is going to produce something like the Leatt and expect it to be perfect on the first go...it just wont happen. i agree strongly with you 4mxonly that it is a step in the right direction. of course people will say other wise but people have there opinions but Jabjr222 will post something with a smart remark saying all his big words since he seems to be a freakin rocket scientist or something...
If you had hung around and lurked a little while, you would understand the noob comment... It is a term of endearment and if you keep posting on this board, you will see it many times... I don't know you for shit and you may very well be a cool guy but I disagree with your post... Also, had you lurked a while, you would know I have a tendency to post things to get people talking one way or another. Sometimes I like to be on the opposite side of what I really believe just to play devil's advocate.

But this is not the case when it comes to neck braces and injury. I take that very seriously as we all should. I just don't want it to be thrown together haphazardly. I want there to be a real discussion based on the most facts we can uncover.

Don't take me or anyone else on here so personally.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/3/2008 11:06am
TomZ wrote:
Thank you DrMark...............I have said on this forum and many others that there will continue to be a lack of pure scientific evidence to support Leatt,helmets,knee...
Thank you DrMark...............I have said on this forum and many others that there will continue to be a lack of pure scientific evidence to support Leatt,helmets,knee braces,LockJaws,gloves,boots,chest protectors,aspirin,gatorade and many other things.
The simple fact is that reducing the range of motion in that highly sensitive area of the neck/spine has shown to reduce catastrophic injury in nearly every contact sport. Our sport was late in bringing such a device into use.
My experience is not scienetific or medical....simply experience.Having fit hundreds of Leatts, i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury.I have not been that person who screams "they would have died for sure".......you can't know these things.
We are fortunate to have the choice to wear a protective device or not.Some will choose not to wear it.....O.K..........myself and many others(the majority ??) choose to wear a neck brace.
MANDATORY.........not yet........i believe in letting people make choices.Will AMA/DMG/FIM make it mandatory ????........well we'll see. Many pro level auto racing organizations have made the Hans mandatory (same principal as Leatt).
In a litigious society like we live in,they may end up forced to do so.

TomZ
My only comment:

The principal of the Leatt is not the same as the HANS.
It is two different animals.

A HANS is held down and secured into place by the 5-point harness holding in the driver and the helmet is then tethered to the HANS by straps. It eliminates forward momentum hyperextension in the event of high impact - rapid stopping incidents.
They may appear similar, they work and act differently
10/3/2008 11:30am
MxBbayGirl wrote:
The prference of myself and my race team is that all riders should have a Leatt
is it your race team?
Tiki
Posts
10612
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA, USA
Fantasy
10/3/2008 11:34am
Stop falling on your head!
10/3/2008 11:34am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 8:41pm
Jabjr222 wrote:
"i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury." Tomz, and I say this with respect as you have been exposed...
"i have watched riders crash in ways that would have likely resulted in injury."

Tomz, and I say this with respect as you have been exposed to the brace far more than I have, but my point is that you have no way of knowing whether injury would have occurred or not.
thats where your wrong!!!!
mxbabys doctor said it saved a life. this must be true.

my opinion on the matter is, i do believe they break collarbones far too easy. but i will continue to wear mine because i believe it will help prevent a neck injury. id rather have a broken collarbone than a broken neck.

that being said, can i join your race team mxgirl?
SX & MX or are you guys SX only contracts too?

Post a reply to: leatt braces

The Latest