Sandbaggers

Wahoo214
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3/13/2014 12:39pm
DC wrote:
I don't think now is the time to split off Loretta Lynn's into separate weeks for the Vets. We've been doing it like this since the...
I don't think now is the time to split off Loretta Lynn's into separate weeks for the Vets. We've been doing it like this since the very first one back in 1982 and while it's not a perfect system, it's as fair as we can make it. Some may think it's wrong to have a Jeff Emig or Mark Barnett come back and race as vets; others may relish the chance to race with a legend like that. But to tell anyone that they can't race an age class because they used to be good, or even are still good, doesn't seem like a good step forward.

On another note, no woman has ever qualified for a pro national or supercross, though there is a story that I heard that a woman was able to race the 1982 or '83 Denver 500 National because there was not a full gate, but I have yet to find proof as in the full results (no woman is listed in the top twenty in The Vault, but I can't find the whole class) and/or photos or printed stories about it… Anyone here has any info, send it my way!

And JBlaine, you mentioned you were looking for the '81 Amateur National at Byron, but that year's AMA Amateur National was in RedBud, and the Youth National was in Reidsville, North Carolina. Did you mean RedBud?

DC
MX Sports
Sorry it was me and I meant Reidsville.
DC
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Morgantown, WV, USA
3/13/2014 12:40pm
JBlaine, sorry man, it was a direct message from Wahoo, sorry for the confusion.

And I wasn't dissing the suggestion, rather I appreciate it. It's just not something that we think would work for all of the sponsors and folks who have kids who also race -- two weeks is a long time to be in Hurricane Mills, Tennessee. Trust me on that, because I've been doing it every summer for 32 years!

DC
MX Sports
JBlain619
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1855
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Severna Park, MD, USA
3/13/2014 12:43pm
DC wrote:
JBlaine, sorry man, it was a direct message from Wahoo, sorry for the confusion. And I wasn't dissing the suggestion, rather I appreciate it. It's just...
JBlaine, sorry man, it was a direct message from Wahoo, sorry for the confusion.

And I wasn't dissing the suggestion, rather I appreciate it. It's just not something that we think would work for all of the sponsors and folks who have kids who also race -- two weeks is a long time to be in Hurricane Mills, Tennessee. Trust me on that, because I've been doing it every summer for 32 years!

DC
MX Sports
No worries, I know and have seen first hand how hard all of y'all work there. If you ever need any help, let me know. I know Amber and I would love the opportunity! Maybe we will see you there this year! +40 time!!!
DC
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Morgantown, WV, USA
3/13/2014 12:50pm
Wahoo, I have been working on a story of the old AMA Amateur Nationals before Loretta Lynn's started in '82 and probably have some of those results… Let me dig them up.

'81 was RedBud (Amateur) and Reidsville, NC (Y)
'80 was Millville (Amateur) and Brownsville, PA (Y)
'79 was Plymouth, CA (Amateurs) and Otter Creek, Iowa (Y)
'78 was Lake Sugar Tree (Ams) and Baja Acres, MI (Y)
'77 was High Point Raceway (Y)
'76 was Carlsbad (Amateurs)
'75 was Baldwin, Kansas

And way back in '73 there was a Y-AMA Youth National Series, with eight races scattered around the country, and the big winner was Gene McKay of Lexington, Tennessee. Coincidentally, that's not very far from Loretta Lynn's Ranch.

DC
MX Sports

The Shop

web mx
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USA, MI, USA
3/13/2014 1:00pm
DC wrote:
I don't think now is the time to split off Loretta Lynn's into separate weeks for the Vets. We've been doing it like this since the...
I don't think now is the time to split off Loretta Lynn's into separate weeks for the Vets. We've been doing it like this since the very first one back in 1982 and while it's not a perfect system, it's as fair as we can make it. Some may think it's wrong to have a Jeff Emig or Mark Barnett come back and race as vets; others may relish the chance to race with a legend like that. But to tell anyone that they can't race an age class because they used to be good, or even are still good, doesn't seem like a good step forward.

On another note, no woman has ever qualified for a pro national or supercross, though there is a story that I heard that a woman was able to race the 1982 or '83 Denver 500 National because there was not a full gate, but I have yet to find proof as in the full results (no woman is listed in the top twenty in The Vault, but I can't find the whole class) and/or photos or printed stories about it… Anyone here has any info, send it my way!

And JBlaine, you mentioned you were looking for the '81 Amateur National at Byron, but that year's AMA Amateur National was in RedBud, and the Youth National was in Reidsville, North Carolina. Did you mean RedBud?

DC
MX Sports
DC,I thought that italian girl Stephy Bau qualified about 10 years ago for 125 national ? hangtown maybe?
DC
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Morgantown, WV, USA
3/13/2014 1:07pm
Stephy did not qualify for a U.S. National, but she maybe did a GP? I know Marianna Balbi (and maybe now Livia Lancelot) has raced GPs, but I don't think she had to run qualifying races to get into the final field, as they weren't full gates at the race in Brazil.

DC
MX Sports
Miscreant317
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Location
Hedgesville, WV, USA
3/13/2014 1:35pm
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefy_Bau "she made history by qualifying at the [Budd's Creek] round of the Men Outdoor National championship"
But after some digging it seems she actually crashed in the last chance.
COAL-TRAIN
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Location
Harbor City, CA, USA
3/13/2014 1:51pm
DC wrote:
Lisa Akin was also a top-ten rider in the 100cc class in 1981, the year before the first Loretta Lynn's, and back when there wasn't a...
Lisa Akin was also a top-ten rider in the 100cc class in 1981, the year before the first Loretta Lynn's, and back when there wasn't a Women's class….

But I have a question for Wahoo214: "former Pros riding an Amature National. If they choose to do so, they should be in Pro Sport not an age group class. They should have some "pride" as you say and allow those who are true amatures chase thier glory."

What about me? I am 48 years old, I raced pro in 1985, and then went to college and went on to work in the industry. I don't have much time to race because I basically have two jobs, and I lost my clutch finger in an accident in 2009…

I have "pride" in my brief days as a pro, but do you really think that 30 years later I belong in the 450 Pro Sport class at Loretta Lynn's, or in the +45 class? Because if I was limited to Pro Sport and racing against teenagers, I am not sure I would have much of a chance to participate, or the will to continue even racing. How can the "me" in 2014 be anywhere near as competitive as the "me" in 1984 would have been against today's Pro Ams.

And that's the conundrum of the age groups: we get slower as we get older, yet "once fast, always fast" somehow means we still belong out there in the Pro Sport class thirty years later…

DC
MX Sports
Im calling bullshit DC...you still have 4 other fingers on that hand.
Lefty Right
Posts
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Location
Carmichael, CA, USA
3/13/2014 1:57pm
DC wrote:
I don't think now is the time to split off Loretta Lynn's into separate weeks for the Vets. We've been doing it like this since the...
I don't think now is the time to split off Loretta Lynn's into separate weeks for the Vets. We've been doing it like this since the very first one back in 1982 and while it's not a perfect system, it's as fair as we can make it. Some may think it's wrong to have a Jeff Emig or Mark Barnett come back and race as vets; others may relish the chance to race with a legend like that. But to tell anyone that they can't race an age class because they used to be good, or even are still good, doesn't seem like a good step forward.

On another note, no woman has ever qualified for a pro national or supercross, though there is a story that I heard that a woman was able to race the 1982 or '83 Denver 500 National because there was not a full gate, but I have yet to find proof as in the full results (no woman is listed in the top twenty in The Vault, but I can't find the whole class) and/or photos or printed stories about it… Anyone here has any info, send it my way!

And JBlaine, you mentioned you were looking for the '81 Amateur National at Byron, but that year's AMA Amateur National was in RedBud, and the Youth National was in Reidsville, North Carolina. Did you mean RedBud?

DC
MX Sports
NorCal's Dorene Payne was best known as being the first woman to ever race a AMA Pro National
JBlain619
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Location
Severna Park, MD, USA
3/13/2014 2:22pm
NorCal's Dorene Payne was best known as being the first woman to ever race a AMA Pro National
Cool. Thanks Lefty Right. Happen to know if there's any relation of her and Billy?
Squid-mom
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Mc Coy, TX, USA
3/13/2014 4:49pm
"Wanted to get 10s to 6s so I didn't get bumped to A, so hopefully this my year."
That is the same rider that the OP was talking about!! I like the 'this is my 2nd or 3rd year, I forget"- how about 4th!!
GuyB
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Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
3/13/2014 4:59pm
"Wanted to get 10s to 6s so I didn't get bumped to A, so hopefully this my year."
Squid-mom wrote:
That is the same rider that the OP was talking about!! I like the 'this is my 2nd or 3rd year, I forget"- how about 4th!!
How about he killed it at Daytona.

I think the phrase you guys are looking for is ex-sandbagger.
JB 19
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Marion, OH, USA
3/13/2014 7:06pm
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael. I had that happen to me when I was a kid. RC, Reynard, Windham, Ferry.......yada yada .......they went on and lived and breathed motocross. Professional training, diet coaching, bike setup secrets, 10,000 -20,000 hours of seat time......the best the sport has to offer in whatever you can imagine.

Others went on to college, work or whatever. Trying to make a living and hope they have a day left in the week to ride. Sometimes, sometimes not. Most of the past pro's still have *almost* the best of everything at their finger tips.

How is it that a guy who rode a few A class races is grouped in with guys who were at one time in the top 10 in the WORLD?

My feeling is that these guys are allowed to race because of the exposure they provide to the race. I have said before that I don't think anyone who held a pro license should be able to race a national AMATEUR event. It is leaving a bad taste for many, but most just don't have the balls to stick their neck out and be the villain like me.
3/13/2014 7:48pm
JB 19 wrote:
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael...
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael. I had that happen to me when I was a kid. RC, Reynard, Windham, Ferry.......yada yada .......they went on and lived and breathed motocross. Professional training, diet coaching, bike setup secrets, 10,000 -20,000 hours of seat time......the best the sport has to offer in whatever you can imagine.

Others went on to college, work or whatever. Trying to make a living and hope they have a day left in the week to ride. Sometimes, sometimes not. Most of the past pro's still have *almost* the best of everything at their finger tips.

How is it that a guy who rode a few A class races is grouped in with guys who were at one time in the top 10 in the WORLD?

My feeling is that these guys are allowed to race because of the exposure they provide to the race. I have said before that I don't think anyone who held a pro license should be able to race a national AMATEUR event. It is leaving a bad taste for many, but most just don't have the balls to stick their neck out and be the villain like me.
Or a lot of us just think you are wrong.
JB 19
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Marion, OH, USA
3/13/2014 7:59pm
JB 19 wrote:
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael...
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael. I had that happen to me when I was a kid. RC, Reynard, Windham, Ferry.......yada yada .......they went on and lived and breathed motocross. Professional training, diet coaching, bike setup secrets, 10,000 -20,000 hours of seat time......the best the sport has to offer in whatever you can imagine.

Others went on to college, work or whatever. Trying to make a living and hope they have a day left in the week to ride. Sometimes, sometimes not. Most of the past pro's still have *almost* the best of everything at their finger tips.

How is it that a guy who rode a few A class races is grouped in with guys who were at one time in the top 10 in the WORLD?

My feeling is that these guys are allowed to race because of the exposure they provide to the race. I have said before that I don't think anyone who held a pro license should be able to race a national AMATEUR event. It is leaving a bad taste for many, but most just don't have the balls to stick their neck out and be the villain like me.
lostboy819 wrote:
Or a lot of us just think you are wrong.
Says the guy who has a pic of his idol in his avatar. How sweet.
3/13/2014 8:01pm
If Hannah shows up at LLs I say let him race
Squid-mom
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237
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Mc Coy, TX, USA
3/13/2014 8:05pm
lostboy819 wrote:
If Hannah shows up at LLs I say let him race
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
3/13/2014 8:10pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2014 8:25pm
lostboy819 wrote:
If Hannah shows up at LLs I say let him race
Squid-mom wrote:
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to...
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
Not slower , just not as fast for as long Wink
3/13/2014 8:22pm
I can only imagine what it is like now. I tried to sandbag in 1999, but I wasn't fast enough.

I was a fast local AM rider that often rode exhibition with the local A classes and podiumed a few times in the A class. So I thought I would sandbag the 125 C stock class to try to get to LL's. Made it to a qualifier in Marysville,Ca and finished 5th with a good start and didnt crash. I didn't even ride the second moto, just loaded my bike and drove 8 hours home knowing I'd never even make a decent pimple on a real riders ass. A year later I made the night show in a couple areanacross races after I pretty much quit riding, because I figured out MX was just a hobby that comes with really expensive hospital bills.
wardy
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1794
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Location
USA
3/13/2014 10:18pm
JB 19 wrote:
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael...
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold the ex pro's up on some kind of pedestal. I'm not "honored" to get roosted by Ricky Carmichael. I had that happen to me when I was a kid. RC, Reynard, Windham, Ferry.......yada yada .......they went on and lived and breathed motocross. Professional training, diet coaching, bike setup secrets, 10,000 -20,000 hours of seat time......the best the sport has to offer in whatever you can imagine.

Others went on to college, work or whatever. Trying to make a living and hope they have a day left in the week to ride. Sometimes, sometimes not. Most of the past pro's still have *almost* the best of everything at their finger tips.

How is it that a guy who rode a few A class races is grouped in with guys who were at one time in the top 10 in the WORLD?

My feeling is that these guys are allowed to race because of the exposure they provide to the race. I have said before that I don't think anyone who held a pro license should be able to race a national AMATEUR event. It is leaving a bad taste for many, but most just don't have the balls to stick their neck out and be the villain like me.
well many think the same. as i stated in an early post. personally if i could line up and race those guys cool but i won't and don't , but think your post says what many feel.

just not popular and well it is what it is.
3/14/2014 4:09am
lostboy819 wrote:
If Hannah shows up at LLs I say let him race
Squid-mom wrote:
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to...
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
Yes.
3/14/2014 4:11am
"Wanted to get 10s to 6s so I didn't get bumped to A, so hopefully this my year."
Squid-mom wrote:
That is the same rider that the OP was talking about!! I like the 'this is my 2nd or 3rd year, I forget"- how about 4th!!
Can't blame the kid for doing it when the whole community does it. He's trying to get a ride out of Amatuers and titles help.

I'm not bashing the kid.
Squid-mom
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Mc Coy, TX, USA
3/14/2014 6:52am
"Wanted to get 10s to 6s so I didn't get bumped to A, so hopefully this my year."
Squid-mom wrote:
That is the same rider that the OP was talking about!! I like the 'this is my 2nd or 3rd year, I forget"- how about 4th!!
Can't blame the kid for doing it when the whole community does it. He's trying to get a ride out of Amatuers and titles help. I'm...
Can't blame the kid for doing it when the whole community does it. He's trying to get a ride out of Amatuers and titles help.

I'm not bashing the kid.
I agree with you on that, I am not bashing him personally. He is a product of a very flawed system. He is only one (of many) examples of the problem. Him advancing will not solve the problem, only the AMA or MX Sports can remedy the situation.
JBlain619
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Severna Park, MD, USA
3/14/2014 6:57am
Squid-mom wrote:
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to...
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
There are only 4 vet classes at LL.
Squid-mom
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237
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Mc Coy, TX, USA
3/14/2014 7:50am
Squid-mom wrote:
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to...
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
JBlain619 wrote:
There are only 4 vet classes at LL.
+25, +30B/C, +35, +40, +45, +50: One of those could certainly be dropped,
yak651
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9044
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Appleton, WI, USA
Fantasy
3/14/2014 9:58am
Squid-mom wrote:
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to...
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
JBlain619 wrote:
There are only 4 vet classes at LL.
Squid-mom wrote:
+25, +30B/C, +35, +40, +45, +50: One of those could certainly be dropped,
Or one of these, I mean really do we need a special limited and a limited?? Maybe, maybe not but the same reason you need the classes you listed...Maybe when your squid-son is a squid-vet you will change your mind??
51cc (4-6) Special Limited
51cc (4-6) Shaft Drive Limited
51cc (4-6) Limited
51cc (7-8) Limited
65cc (7-9) Limited
65cc (10-11) Limited
65cc (7-11)
85cc (9-11) Limited
85cc (9-11)
Mini Sr (12-14) Limited
Mini Sr (12-14)
Super Mini 1 (12-15)
Super Mini 2 (13-16)
Schoolboy 1 (12-16) B/C
Schoolboy 2 (13-16) B/C
Girls (12-16)
Girls (9-11)
Women (14+)
35smom
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1428
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Asbury, USA
3/14/2014 10:40am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2014 10:41am
Squid-mom wrote:
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to...
I think a 'Pro Vet' class at LL would be awesome! All they would need to do is drop one of the million plus classes to make room. IMO there are too many anyway- is anyone really that much slower when they turn 45 than they were when they turned 40?
JBlain619 wrote:
There are only 4 vet classes at LL.
Squid-mom wrote:
+25, +30B/C, +35, +40, +45, +50: One of those could certainly be dropped,
+25 is Junior, +30B/C is a skill level. The rest are Vet classes. So there are only 4. I know many vets that truly enjoy riding as much as the kids. Remember those "Vets" started all of this!
moto804
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Schaumburg, IL, USA
3/14/2014 10:58am
So, I've been lurking on here for a while, but this topic motivated me to join in and throw up a post.

I've been to LL's 3 times over the years. In '94 I raced both 250 C classes even though I had moved up to B locally that spring. I don't think I broke the top 25 either time. In '99 I was an alternate in 250/Open B and 4 Stroke and ended up getting to ride the 4 Stroke class. Got smoked again even though locally I was almost always at the front of the B classes, Then in '03 I ran +25 in the year that I believe was the first year Emig lined back up down there (yes, once again I got smoked, 30th I think). I believe Emig won both +30 and 250 Pro Sport that year. I thought it was pretty cool that he was down there, but one of my buddies was and still is really pissed about the fact that they are allowed down there.

I got (mostly) out of racing for a while, but now my 4 & 6 year old daughters are starting to get more interested, and I'm getting the itch more and I would like to make another run down to The Ranch in the next couple years. I thought about petitioning to get moved back down so I can run the +30 B/C, but in the end decided against it as I don't want to get grief locally for being a "sandbagger". I know that even if I get myself back in really good shape and get out riding more, I am not at the speed of the top ten of the 30 b/c class. I'm not sure how other districts allow these guys to hang around as a B rider for so long, but other than the top 10 or so in the regular Vet classes that is filled with former pro's or hardcore amatuers, there really isn't much of a drop off to the top 10 in the b/c class. I know a couple guys locally in recent years that have qualified for the +35 class, but not +30 b/c without having any significant crashes/issues at the regional.

Hopefully, I get back up there and can qualify in +35 in 2015. And I for one would think it would be pretty cool if I pull a spoon that allows me to line up between Robbie Reynard and Keith Johnson or any of those other former pro's on the first moto as I will be down there for a really fun week trying to finish somewhere between 20th and 33rd, not get in anyone's way and enjoying the party!
newmann
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3/14/2014 11:11am
Speaking of sandbagging: Start this at the 26 minute mark. Kid blatantly comes out with no shame on how he 'sandbagged' as most describe it in...
Speaking of sandbagging:


Start this at the 26 minute mark. Kid blatantly comes out with no shame on how he 'sandbagged' as most describe it in this thread. It's happening. No way to prevent it! Get over it! They're ALL doing it.

https://youtu.be/hShrwFbtSYI?list=UUMEW7aJFJdI-gRhXw3UtWKA )
Love it, dumb kid threw his own ass under the bus with those remarks. If I was someone like Mitch Payton , I would view him as a rider who doesn't give 100% and move on to the next guy. Kid admitted on camera. Like I said, the system breeds it. The goober was throwin' gang signs too....crip or blood?Shocked
JBlain619
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Severna Park, MD, USA
3/14/2014 11:44am
JBlain619 wrote:
There are only 4 vet classes at LL.
Squid-mom wrote:
+25, +30B/C, +35, +40, +45, +50: One of those could certainly be dropped,
35smom wrote:
+25 is Junior, +30B/C is a skill level. The rest are Vet classes. So there are only 4. I know many vets that truly enjoy riding...
+25 is Junior, +30B/C is a skill level. The rest are Vet classes. So there are only 4. I know many vets that truly enjoy riding as much as the kids. Remember those "Vets" started all of this!
+45 and +50 drop on the same gate.

I agree with you about the Pro Vet Class Squid-mom. I can however, go through the whole class list and tell you what classes should be dropped but I feel as if I'm a little biased considering I race in the Vet classes. DC and MX Sports are in an unenviable position and do the best they can to appease the riders, Manufacturers, Industry sponsors and so forth. They are in their 35th year doing so and I think they do a pretty damn good job. Everyone has a complaint or opinion of what "should or needs" to be done.

If you have a legitimate complaint, call or email MX Sports, they are willing to help. Make sure you have solid proof, not hear say, and see what happens. Tim Cotter, DC and the others at MX Sports will do the research and give you an answer whether good or bad. Hope it all works out for you!

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