Should we ban starting devices?

Edited Date/Time 7/19/2013 3:45pm
Sorry if this has been covered.

But who thinks banning starting devices would be a good idea?

Everyone has them so they are of no advantage.

It would make starting a little harder thus helping the good starters do better and spread everyone out going into the first theoretically reducing the number of first turn pileups and make for better racing.

Not to mention save a buck or two.

What do you guys think?
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Choppy
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7/17/2013 3:12pm
We had just as many first turn crashes before starting devices. Don't turn in to The Rock.
Lightning78
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7/17/2013 3:12pm
I am ok with that and just ask DV's opinion on the subject he thinks they are lame and are the cause of worse 1st turn crashes than before
Choppy
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7/17/2013 3:13pm
Any of you actually have data to prove that?
activeMX
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7/17/2013 3:14pm
Not the most technological innovation in recent years but why would you want to slow down progress?

Oh wait.....you're probably one of those guys who also believes we need to go back to those antiquated 2-strokes of yesteryear.

The Shop

Lightning78
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7/17/2013 3:14pm
Choppy wrote:
We had just as many first turn crashes before starting devices. Don't turn in to The Rock.
This is true but now with the starting device the riders are going A LOT faster into the first turn than before hence the point that was made about starting devices and first turn crashes....I think you may have misinterpreted the actual reason the rock mentioned in context
newmann
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7/17/2013 3:18pm
You do realize that would require action being taken by the AMA don't you? The same AMA who thinks a 250 is the same as a 125 and a 450 the same as a 250...Huh
Ozzy
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7/17/2013 3:21pm
No!!!!

What we should be worried about
is the top level racing itself!
activeMX
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7/17/2013 3:22pm
This is true but now with the starting device the riders are going A LOT faster into the first turn than before hence the point that...
This is true but now with the starting device the riders are going A LOT faster into the first turn than before hence the point that was made about starting devices and first turn crashes....I think you may have misinterpreted the actual reason the rock mentioned in context
There's only one way to tell if riders are going A LOT faster into the first turn with or without a starting device.....a radar gun.

My educated guess is that you wouldn't see a huge difference in speed going into the turn with a starting device.

Traction, contact w/ other riders, ruts etc. are still factors with or without a starting device that play A HUGE roll in getting to the first turn first.
Choppy
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7/17/2013 3:22pm
Choppy wrote:
We had just as many first turn crashes before starting devices. Don't turn in to The Rock.
This is true but now with the starting device the riders are going A LOT faster into the first turn than before hence the point that...
This is true but now with the starting device the riders are going A LOT faster into the first turn than before hence the point that was made about starting devices and first turn crashes....I think you may have misinterpreted the actual reason the rock mentioned in context
Is anyone going faster into the first corner than before? Again, we have opinions without any data fueling these "burn them at the stake for being witches" type arguments.

Crap gets old.
newmann
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7/17/2013 3:28pm
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus needs to be. None of the advancements in bikes over the last few decades has done anything to make the actual racing any better. I guarantee that if every single rider on the gate at a 450 national today was on a brand new, race prepped 1990 model 250 the racing would be just as "good" as it is right now.
7/17/2013 3:35pm
Choppy wrote:
Any of you actually have data to prove that?
Who needs "documentation".
Jakes Dad
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7/17/2013 3:37pm
Jake doesn't use them and does fine on starts, he has a good clutch feel and loads the suspension well. Most kids I see use it as a crutch to just dump the clutch and go. Jake got a couple holeshots at last years Winter Am's here.
activeMX
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7/17/2013 3:39pm
newmann wrote:
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus...
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus needs to be. None of the advancements in bikes over the last few decades has done anything to make the actual racing any better. I guarantee that if every single rider on the gate at a 450 national today was on a brand new, race prepped 1990 model 250 the racing would be just as "good" as it is right now.
Ha ha!!!

That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices basically. The racing today is infinitely better than 1990 due to the evolution of riders AND bikes.

If watching people flounder closer together around a motocross track is your idea of good racing.....you're probably over 45.
Ing
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7/17/2013 3:50pm
activeMX wrote:
Ha ha!!! That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices...
Ha ha!!!

That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices basically. The racing today is infinitely better than 1990 due to the evolution of riders AND bikes.

If watching people flounder closer together around a motocross track is your idea of good racing.....you're probably over 45.
So close racing is a bad thing?
Toste
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7/17/2013 3:50pm
I believe it was Tony Berluti who said something similar on the Pulpmx show?

If everyone is using them, then there is no advantage, so what's the point?

It's just one more thing to add cost and hassle.
newmann
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7/17/2013 3:52pm
newmann wrote:
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus...
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus needs to be. None of the advancements in bikes over the last few decades has done anything to make the actual racing any better. I guarantee that if every single rider on the gate at a 450 national today was on a brand new, race prepped 1990 model 250 the racing would be just as "good" as it is right now.
activeMX wrote:
Ha ha!!! That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices...
Ha ha!!!

That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices basically. The racing today is infinitely better than 1990 due to the evolution of riders AND bikes.

If watching people flounder closer together around a motocross track is your idea of good racing.....you're probably over 45.
Ignorant? Maybe just too deep for a dumbass to understand, but definitely not "ignorant.Tongue

Yes the riders have gotten more refined, we can refer to that as the Jeremy McCarmichael Stewart syndrome.

Yes the bikes have gotten more refined, and "easier to go fast on".

Yes the tracks have become more refined , due to the riders and the bikes.

But, you take todays riders on the bikes of 1990 and you will still have the same great racing as you do today, maybe even a little better due to fewer injuries.
peelout
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7/17/2013 3:53pm
Toste wrote:
I believe it was Tony Berluti who said something similar on the Pulpmx show? If everyone is using them, then there is no advantage, so what's...
I believe it was Tony Berluti who said something similar on the Pulpmx show?

If everyone is using them, then there is no advantage, so what's the point?

It's just one more thing to add cost and hassle.
and one more thing that Joey McSquid at Chicken Turd Raceway needs to throw on his 2003 YZF250 to holeshot the 250C class.

"the pro's have them, so why shouldn't I?"

unfortunately, this is the exact thinking that got the sport where it is today... $1,200 exhaust systems. pfft. fuck that shit.
Toste
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7/17/2013 4:01pm
Toste wrote:
I believe it was Tony Berluti who said something similar on the Pulpmx show? If everyone is using them, then there is no advantage, so what's...
I believe it was Tony Berluti who said something similar on the Pulpmx show?

If everyone is using them, then there is no advantage, so what's the point?

It's just one more thing to add cost and hassle.
peelout wrote:
and one more thing that Joey McSquid at Chicken Turd Raceway needs to throw on his 2003 YZF250 to holeshot the 250C class. "the pro's have...
and one more thing that Joey McSquid at Chicken Turd Raceway needs to throw on his 2003 YZF250 to holeshot the 250C class.

"the pro's have them, so why shouldn't I?"

unfortunately, this is the exact thinking that got the sport where it is today... $1,200 exhaust systems. pfft. fuck that shit.
Quoted for truth.
activeMX
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7/17/2013 4:03pm
Ing wrote:
So close racing is a bad thing?
Is that what you think I said???

Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a little "closeness".
velocitygear
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7/17/2013 4:04pm Edited Date/Time 7/17/2013 4:11pm
newmann wrote:
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus...
A 450 probably heads into the first turn a tad faster than a 250 2 stroke as well.....hmmmmm. But what Ozzy stated is where the focus needs to be. None of the advancements in bikes over the last few decades has done anything to make the actual racing any better. I guarantee that if every single rider on the gate at a 450 national today was on a brand new, race prepped 1990 model 250 the racing would be just as "good" as it is right now.
activeMX wrote:
Ha ha!!! That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices...
Ha ha!!!

That's such an ignorant statement. Have you not seen any video of a top rider from 1990 since then? They look like today's novices basically. The racing today is infinitely better than 1990 due to the evolution of riders AND bikes.

If watching people flounder closer together around a motocross track is your idea of good racing.....you're probably over 45.
Sorry, but ^ thats not ignorant but just plain stupid.

The 4 strokes have changed the pace and made riding fast, easier! Period!

2 strokes made for better racing and for acrobatic jumps and leaps we no longer see today. I love my 4 stroke but wish they never came about!

Anyone here go to the Rose Bowl Supercross when Damon Huffman won? I believe he won the Championship at that race. I ask because there was a whoop section and at the end of that section was a 6-7 foot high wall. Only the 250's and the best were doing it but halfway through the whoops they would launch off a 2 foot whoop and clear the wall. I remember Guy Cooper having a tough time with it and it was HAIRY!! I have not seen such acrobatics in Supercross since the 2 stroke..

Now it seems more like Nascarcross!!!
newmann
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7/17/2013 4:10pm
activeMX wrote:
Is that what you think I said??? Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a...
Is that what you think I said???

Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a little "closeness".
You really think RV or Dungey would be going slow on this?

newmann
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7/17/2013 4:14pm
activeMX wrote:
Is that what you think I said??? Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a...
Is that what you think I said???

Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a little "closeness".
And for the "over 45" comment, I'll bet a dollar that you on your modern bike couldn't hold a candle to the ass of a plus 50 Guy Cooper on a 1979 Bultaco with maybe 9 inches of suspension travel and drum brakes.Laughing

newmann
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7/17/2013 4:16pm
Oh what the heck, let's make it a 74 Bultaco with 4 inches of suspension travel...

CamP
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7/17/2013 4:17pm
Holeshot devices are a form of traction control and should not be allowed.
haydos25
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7/17/2013 4:23pm
CamP wrote:
Holeshot devices are a form of traction control and should not be allowed.
I agree, so are clutches and flywheel weights. Ban the lot of them Dry
Overdrive
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7/17/2013 4:27pm
activeMX wrote:
Is that what you think I said??? Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a...
Is that what you think I said???

Close racing is not bad.....it's great, I would just rather watch FAST racing even it if meant sacrificing a little "closeness".
newmann wrote:
And for the "over 45" comment, I'll bet a dollar that you on your modern bike couldn't hold a candle to the ass of a plus...
And for the "over 45" comment, I'll bet a dollar that you on your modern bike couldn't hold a candle to the ass of a plus 50 Guy Cooper on a 1979 Bultaco with maybe 9 inches of suspension travel and drum brakes.Laughing

He shoots and he score's........ :0 Nice one newmann
7/17/2013 4:28pm Edited Date/Time 7/17/2013 4:30pm
CamP wrote:
Holeshot devices are a form of traction control and should not be allowed.
haydos25 wrote:
I agree, so are clutches and flywheel weights. Ban the lot of them Dry
Speaking of, do the pro Kawi riders get to use that launch mode deal on the starts? Is that legal? Do they remove them or does everyone else have some form of it on their bikes?

EDIT: Oops just meant to quote CamP
Choppy
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7/17/2013 4:29pm
Maybe we shouldn't move back to older bikes,but old men that no longer enjoy the sport should move on...
newmann
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7/17/2013 4:31pm
Choppy wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't move back to older bikes,but old men that no longer enjoy the sport should move on...
Who doesn't enjoy the sport?
newmann
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7/17/2013 4:31pm
Choppy wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't move back to older bikes,but old men that no longer enjoy the sport should move on...
newmann wrote:
Who doesn't enjoy the sport?
And who said "move back to older bikes"?

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