What do you think? Could and should TC 222 head to the USA for a race?

Park Boys
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Park Boys 4/17/2013 1:25pm
4/17/2013 1:25pm
vlh wrote:
Your Logic should hold true for everything then. We have over 300 million people in America and we should dominate in everything . We also have...
Your Logic should hold true for everything then. We have over 300 million people in America and we should dominate in everything . We also have more money and resources than most countries as well. But at the end of the day it comes down to pure TALENT.

Being a fan of Soccer, I see how many youth and Adults play soccer in America. We have programs that range from 4 year olds to adults offerring various levels of play and training. We have an Olympic Development Programs that is designed to pick out the youngest and most talented soccer players across the country and plug them into the US soccer Program so they can develop Americas best players.

All the money and resources we have as a country will not make us a World Cup Champion because we lack the TALENT.

But motocross we have the TALENT for some reason or another, to be the best, it has nothing to do with the size of our country. Look at MC, he was a BMX rider and decided to give MX a try and you know the rest of that storry. TALENT=SUCCESS.
America's best talent doesn't play soccer there in the NFL,NHL,NBA,ETC. We are a nation that doesn't care about soccer at its core we would have to change are culture I went to school with Teal Bunbury who was the 4th overall pick in the MLS draft and no one at our school gave two shits he was an amazing athlete but the second string QB got more attention than him that's the way it is in this country. We don't lack the talent get real guy are culture as a whole could care less about soccer. Terrible argument to have but its the only one people like you use" the soccer excuse" Were are not cup champs because its not in are DNA like all of the other countries competing.
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Park Boys 4/17/2013 1:28pm
4/17/2013 1:28pm
moto282 wrote:
The population excuse is tired. The US has the most competitive amateur program in the world and has lots of opportunities to race against other fast...
The population excuse is tired. The US has the most competitive amateur program in the world and has lots of opportunities to race against other fast riders that some countries don't have (tracks, riders, and climate). Plus we have the most popular or "mainstream" version MX in Supercross which attracts the younger generation by making it more visible/"cool" and influences our local racing (jumps, sprinting, starts, etc...). We also have a outdoor national championship that is on par with any other series in the world (or arguably the best). Basically, the US adopted motocross more than most countries and that's why we have a lot of fast riders and do well at MXDN.

Does the fact we're a big country and not the size of Cuba contribute to the talent pool? Of course it does... but if you think it's the main reason why win MXDN so much you're wrong. It's been said countless times before, but the US does not care about soccer (and thus why we don't have competitive amateur/professional leagues) and therefore we are not a big player on the world stage in that sport. If population was the main driver for success in sports why aren't we winning World Cups like we do in MXDN? I'll admit the soccer analogy is just as tired as the population excuse, but it's the best I got at the moment.

Smile
The Soccer excuse is more tired than the population excuse, we could care less about soccer. That said I do not think the only reason we are the best is cause of are population size but I will say it has as big or even a bigger reason for are success than are amateur program.
TripleDigit 4/17/2013 1:35pm
4/17/2013 1:35pm
Park Boys wrote:
Is Thailand a first world nation who's people can afford MX, No its only available to a few in that can afford it. Motocross was not...
Is Thailand a first world nation who's people can afford MX, No its only available to a few in that can afford it.

Motocross was not invented in France they just changed the name to be different than the Brits who get credit for the first "MX" race they were called scrambles nice try though.......

Our amateur program is the best because of what for it... All the competition we have which is directly related to the population we have a huge nation with one language and all types of terrain/weather to train on. Use common sense we have well over 300 million people vs 65 million in france we have nearly 5 times the people. So yea like I always say we should win.
vlh wrote:
Your Logic should hold true for everything then. We have over 300 million people in America and we should dominate in everything . We also have...
Your Logic should hold true for everything then. We have over 300 million people in America and we should dominate in everything . We also have more money and resources than most countries as well. But at the end of the day it comes down to pure TALENT.

Being a fan of Soccer, I see how many youth and Adults play soccer in America. We have programs that range from 4 year olds to adults offerring various levels of play and training. We have an Olympic Development Programs that is designed to pick out the youngest and most talented soccer players across the country and plug them into the US soccer Program so they can develop Americas best players.

All the money and resources we have as a country will not make us a World Cup Champion because we lack the TALENT.

But motocross we have the TALENT for some reason or another, to be the best, it has nothing to do with the size of our country. Look at MC, he was a BMX rider and decided to give MX a try and you know the rest of that storry. TALENT=SUCCESS.
The USA used to be an absolute JOKE at Soccer,the growth in schools,training and amateur programmes have elevated the level to where your National team easily qualify and hold their own at at World cup level,and the level is still improving

The USA used to suck at MX when it was basically restricted the a small number of riders in California,since then there's been a huge explosion in growth,the size of the place doesn't restrict the growth either

More growth,more riders,more racing,more competition etc,a booming industry and you produce more talent,the bigger the whole thing gets,the deeper the talent pool

China is an example with table tennis,big place,lots of it,the most amount of participants,more competition etc ,deeper talent pool

China,Russia,USA,same in Gymnastics

The USA is best at basketball,why aren't China? If they took it up seriously,who knows where they'd be in 20 or 30 years? You need a combination of a number of things
Thomas Jefferson 4/17/2013 1:54pm
4/17/2013 1:54pm
Park Boys wrote:
America's best talent doesn't play soccer there in the NFL,NHL,NBA,ETC. We are a nation that doesn't care about soccer at its core we would have to...
America's best talent doesn't play soccer there in the NFL,NHL,NBA,ETC. We are a nation that doesn't care about soccer at its core we would have to change are culture I went to school with Teal Bunbury who was the 4th overall pick in the MLS draft and no one at our school gave two shits he was an amazing athlete but the second string QB got more attention than him that's the way it is in this country. We don't lack the talent get real guy are culture as a whole could care less about soccer. Terrible argument to have but its the only one people like you use" the soccer excuse" Were are not cup champs because its not in are DNA like all of the other countries competing.
Hey Carlos, Jr. you're making us look bad.

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St Ann More 4/17/2013 1:59pm
4/17/2013 1:59pm
I'd rather see RV come race a Dutch National...
bents
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bents 4/17/2013 4:41pm
4/17/2013 4:41pm
Back to the thread...yes it would be great, and he should come to a track that would suit his style, whatever that is. Southwick? Unadilla? Millville would be awesome for me....
Lucifa.
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Lucifa. 4/17/2013 5:48pm
4/17/2013 5:48pm
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
Yes.

Elsinore's hybrid gnarly outdoor SX track. That way he could get lapped 3 times, and we could act like all the Euros acted after Lommel.
Get over your ass kicking already! It;s not a big dick so don't take it so hard.
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APLMAN99 4/18/2013 4:14am
4/18/2013 4:14am
Park Boys wrote:
Is Thailand a first world nation who's people can afford MX, No its only available to a few in that can afford it. Motocross was not...
Is Thailand a first world nation who's people can afford MX, No its only available to a few in that can afford it.

Motocross was not invented in France they just changed the name to be different than the Brits who get credit for the first "MX" race they were called scrambles nice try though.......

Our amateur program is the best because of what for it... All the competition we have which is directly related to the population we have a huge nation with one language and all types of terrain/weather to train on. Use common sense we have well over 300 million people vs 65 million in france we have nearly 5 times the people. So yea like I always say we should win.
Maybe you haven't heard of this little event called the ISDE.....
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/18/2013 5:36am
4/18/2013 5:36am
Park Boys wrote:
Is Thailand a first world nation who's people can afford MX, No its only available to a few in that can afford it. Motocross was not...
Is Thailand a first world nation who's people can afford MX, No its only available to a few in that can afford it.

Motocross was not invented in France they just changed the name to be different than the Brits who get credit for the first "MX" race they were called scrambles nice try though.......

Our amateur program is the best because of what for it... All the competition we have which is directly related to the population we have a huge nation with one language and all types of terrain/weather to train on. Use common sense we have well over 300 million people vs 65 million in france we have nearly 5 times the people. So yea like I always say we should win.
vlh wrote:
Your Logic should hold true for everything then. We have over 300 million people in America and we should dominate in everything . We also have...
Your Logic should hold true for everything then. We have over 300 million people in America and we should dominate in everything . We also have more money and resources than most countries as well. But at the end of the day it comes down to pure TALENT.

Being a fan of Soccer, I see how many youth and Adults play soccer in America. We have programs that range from 4 year olds to adults offerring various levels of play and training. We have an Olympic Development Programs that is designed to pick out the youngest and most talented soccer players across the country and plug them into the US soccer Program so they can develop Americas best players.

All the money and resources we have as a country will not make us a World Cup Champion because we lack the TALENT.

But motocross we have the TALENT for some reason or another, to be the best, it has nothing to do with the size of our country. Look at MC, he was a BMX rider and decided to give MX a try and you know the rest of that storry. TALENT=SUCCESS.
TripleDigit wrote:
The USA used to be an absolute JOKE at Soccer,the growth in schools,training and amateur programmes have elevated the level to where your National team easily...
The USA used to be an absolute JOKE at Soccer,the growth in schools,training and amateur programmes have elevated the level to where your National team easily qualify and hold their own at at World cup level,and the level is still improving

The USA used to suck at MX when it was basically restricted the a small number of riders in California,since then there's been a huge explosion in growth,the size of the place doesn't restrict the growth either

More growth,more riders,more racing,more competition etc,a booming industry and you produce more talent,the bigger the whole thing gets,the deeper the talent pool

China is an example with table tennis,big place,lots of it,the most amount of participants,more competition etc ,deeper talent pool

China,Russia,USA,same in Gymnastics

The USA is best at basketball,why aren't China? If they took it up seriously,who knows where they'd be in 20 or 30 years? You need a combination of a number of things
My son and I were talking about the soccer thing the other day and how different things might be if the best American athletes played soccer instead of other sports. Can you imagine someone like LeBron James tending goal? How about corner kicking to a guy like Antonio Gates? That would be some crazy stuff to see if guys like that were choosing soccer as their sport at a young age. .....
vlh
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vlh 4/18/2013 5:57am
4/18/2013 5:57am
APLMAN99 wrote:
My son and I were talking about the soccer thing the other day and how different things might be if the best American athletes played soccer...
My son and I were talking about the soccer thing the other day and how different things might be if the best American athletes played soccer instead of other sports. Can you imagine someone like LeBron James tending goal? How about corner kicking to a guy like Antonio Gates? That would be some crazy stuff to see if guys like that were choosing soccer as their sport at a young age. .....
Do you think there is a "trickle down effect" in motocross as well? Are we getting the very best Athletes or are they playing other sports?

Believe it or not Soccer is the number one played sport in America...Basketball comes in at Number 2...DC do you know where MX ranks in sport participation in America? At some point The Good Athletes decide to play another sport whether the quit Soccer or Motocross they move on.
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Mr. Info 4/18/2013 6:32am
4/18/2013 6:32am
TC 222 should stay where he's at. He has nothing to prove to anyone. He make's his living in Europe and a good one at that and he does not need the purse money from winning a National or even the hassels that could come from it if he did. I am sure there would be all sorts of reasons why he beat the Anericans or they beat him. His focus is being World Motocross MX 1 World Champion not an AMA National Champion. And be realistic how many US riders could handle the GP circut, not many. All the travel and races being a total of 3 days at the track. They could have come out and tried to beat him here on their own turf and the top American riders chose not to becasue it was a GP and not a National and they had someone put up $100,000 for any American who could win it. You have 2 complete different groups of racers racing for titles in their own series so why cross over. Maybe we can win in Germany and be on top of the MXON again but who knows. The only people hurt are those diehards who love the sport and not the politics. I would love to see more international riders here for some kind of series.
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TDeath21 4/18/2013 9:16pm
4/18/2013 9:16pm
The population argument only holds a very small percentage of value. Norway has won the most overall medals and the most gold medals at the Winter Olympics, and their country has about 5 million people. They're outnumbered 60 to 1 in population by the USA.
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sharkey 4/18/2013 9:48pm
4/18/2013 9:48pm
Park Boys wrote:
2006 he became the 2nd rider in the history to win a a 250/450f, first moto crash cost overall. 2009 He and Reed were head and...
2006 he became the 2nd rider in the history to win a a 250/450f, first moto crash cost overall. 2009 He and Reed were head and shoulders ahead of everyone and both were taking out in the first turn, 2011 he broke his hand. He has had horrible luck at the MXDN even though he has won motos in 2006,09 and 12 and won the qualifiers on 2009,10. Desalle who gets his ass whooped by AC has gone what 3-20 and then 2-2 here, I think AC could do just fine. Your clearly a hater.
vlh wrote:
I am not a hater at all, I am a realist.... I grew up Liking Dave Thorpe as a kid and Watched a World Champion get...
I am not a hater at all, I am a realist.... I grew up Liking Dave Thorpe as a kid and Watched a World Champion get walked on by everyone for not being able to beat the Americans.

AC would do fine, he would finish somewhere between 4th&8th each moto if he stays on the bike. The US Nationals are just to deep for TC to do better than fine. The pace is pushed from the beginning.

Think about it RV,RD,JS,CR,TC41,JB,DM,MA lining up on the gate this year and you expect TC to run with them. A World Champion is expected to win not do "just fine".
didnt tony kick alessis butt at glen helen a few years back. i think hed do better than you think. id bet no worse than 3rd unles those other guys step it up alot soon
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just James 4/18/2013 10:28pm
4/18/2013 10:28pm
Here's one more vote for him to do it while he is in his prime years.
Probably wouldn't take much. Airfare over here, and I bet ol' Roger could set him up with a bike that is pretty similar to what he normally rides, but is legal for AMA competition.
If he won, then Europe would have bragging rights for about the next 7,000 years. If he finished in the top five, he would have proven that he is competitive, and could reasonably say that he was at a slight disadvantage never having raced that track before.
The only way I can see it going bad for him, is if he basically got smoked. I think that last scenario is very unlikely.
I guess he can stay over there and pretend to be king of the world, but I am sure that somewhere in the back of his mind he wonders how he would do over here.
Motocross83 4/19/2013 12:47am
4/19/2013 12:47am Edited Date/Time 4/19/2013 12:53am
TDeath21 wrote:
The population argument only holds a very small percentage of value. Norway has won the most overall medals and the most gold medals at the Winter...
The population argument only holds a very small percentage of value. Norway has won the most overall medals and the most gold medals at the Winter Olympics, and their country has about 5 million people. They're outnumbered 60 to 1 in population by the USA.
A smaller population can punch above its weight within a sport (or anything really) when it has an above average interest in something. Canada being good at Hockey is another example - it's a national pastime out there (or certainly very popular) hence they are good at it. And it's pretty easy to figure out why Norway does so well in the Winter Olympics.

However take a sport where interest levels are roughly the same and all of a sudden population begins to matter. I'm not saying that this is America's problem or a problem with the MXDN. You are the single strongest MX country, you deserve to win and usually you will. I'm just saying that it's stupid to use MXDN "team" result as a gauge for comparing series. If we're going to use anything from the MXDN to see how certain riders would likely match up, it's far better to look at individual wins and performances.
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TDeath21 4/19/2013 1:04am
4/19/2013 1:04am
TDeath21 wrote:
The population argument only holds a very small percentage of value. Norway has won the most overall medals and the most gold medals at the Winter...
The population argument only holds a very small percentage of value. Norway has won the most overall medals and the most gold medals at the Winter Olympics, and their country has about 5 million people. They're outnumbered 60 to 1 in population by the USA.
Motocross83 wrote:
A smaller population can punch above its weight within a sport (or anything really) when it has an above average interest in something. Canada being good...
A smaller population can punch above its weight within a sport (or anything really) when it has an above average interest in something. Canada being good at Hockey is another example - it's a national pastime out there (or certainly very popular) hence they are good at it. And it's pretty easy to figure out why Norway does so well in the Winter Olympics.

However take a sport where interest levels are roughly the same and all of a sudden population begins to matter. I'm not saying that this is America's problem or a problem with the MXDN. You are the single strongest MX country, you deserve to win and usually you will. I'm just saying that it's stupid to use MXDN "team" result as a gauge for comparing series. If we're going to use anything from the MXDN to see how certain riders would likely match up, it's far better to look at individual wins and performances.
There's so many variables that go into it. Population is a small percentage of it. To use the Des Nations for anything but deciding which nation is best would be unwise. Cairoli has struggled at the Des Nations compared to what he's capable of, whether it's the pressure or bad luck or a combination of the two. It's tough to rank riders between each series, but if I absolutely had to do it, I'd put Cairoli 3rd behind the Ryans. Like I have said before, it's a shame for us fans because this is one of the very few sports where the best of the best aren't constantly competing against each other.
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bobby397 4/19/2013 3:48am
4/19/2013 3:48am
AC222's chance to come to the USA has come to a close. He isn't young enough to come over and get adjusted quick enough to be a factor at a national or an entire series. I'd say the same about js7 or reed.

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