Should Bell have been allowed to race?

2/17/2013 1:43pm
Jt$ wrote:
Atlanta 2007 I knocked myself out on the start of the heat race. Doctors asked me if I was knocked out, I said no. That's all...
Atlanta 2007 I knocked myself out on the start of the heat race. Doctors asked me if I was knocked out, I said no. That's all it took and I was racing the LCQ. Didn't really know where the track went but that's besides the point haha. IMO he was knocked out and then talked them into racing the lcq. His emotion/tears after the lcq is typical concussion symptom as well. My opinion doesn't mean squat but I was bummed they let him go back out there and luckily his second head first crash didn't hurt him badly.
Amen. Thanks.
jhansen510
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2/17/2013 1:45pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 1:47pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Be "with" anybody you want, but your still an idiot if you can't see the difference between one rider who crashes hard and lays there for...
Be "with" anybody you want, but your still an idiot if you can't see the difference between one rider who crashes hard and lays there for a long time, gets up, rides back to the pits and tells Erin Bates that he was not checked by the doctor when he goes to the line for the LCQ; and another case where a rider crashes hard and the Asterisk guys are examining him before he even gets up off the ground. There was plenty of reason for concern in Mookies case, but no reason for concern in Bells case. The Asterisk guys would never have allowed Bell to ride the LCQ if he'd suffered a concussion. You people are basing your diagnosis on what you see on TV and think you know more than the doctor who actually examined him. Unfreakinbelievable.
Everyone that is arguing that he shouldn't have been out there obviously has some ax to grind due to the way a doctor had previously treated...
Everyone that is arguing that he shouldn't have been out there obviously has some ax to grind due to the way a doctor had previously treated them. Mooch is pissed because he didn't get a chest tube when he didn't need it and jhansen is pissed because his uncle broke his neck and a doctor couldn't fix it. He's also pissed because he hit a tractor at 60 mph too and got air lifted, spent months in the icu, and still lived to tell the story. I guess some doctor pissed him off while they were busy saving his life.
Yea you sure know it all. Your EMT experience and nursing school experience makes you smarter than everyone else here. As I have stated this whole time. I have no axe to grind. The dr's did absolutely save my life. But other dr's have also done more damage to me than good. You act as if you were on the scene. You are basing your thoughts off what you saw just like the rest of us. When you become a nurse I hope to god I never end up as your patient.

Zack had no business in the LCQ or main event lastnite!
jhansen510
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2/17/2013 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 1:53pm
JT$ your opinion is not valid because you have been racing sx and dealing with the asterisk crew for way too long. It's like people believe that mistakes can't be made ands things can't and don't get overlooked. If your Vanilla782 you go to the church of Dr's and bow down before them. Actually I think he puts dr's above god, they are dr's so therefore they are perfect!

And 35's mom your kid races so therefore you know what you are talking about, right? WRONG!

I have talked to 2 riders that were racing lastnite and neither of them thought zack should be back out racing on the track with them after that wreck!
2/17/2013 1:53pm
jhansen510 wrote:
Yea you sure know it all. Your EMT experience and nursing school experience makes you smarter than everyone else here. As I have stated this whole...
Yea you sure know it all. Your EMT experience and nursing school experience makes you smarter than everyone else here. As I have stated this whole time. I have no axe to grind. The dr's did absolutely save my life. But other dr's have also done more damage to me than good. You act as if you were on the scene. You are basing your thoughts off what you saw just like the rest of us. When you become a nurse I hope to god I never end up as your patient.

Zack had no business in the LCQ or main event lastnite!
If you're having a problem with your airway, breathing, or circulation I will know what to do but if you come in for a concussion you will be fine because I will be sure to give you a lot of warm blankets and hot meals until it is all better.

I never said I was smarter than you I figured I would contribute my real world experience with head injuries to help people understand why they let him back out there.

The Shop

2/17/2013 1:54pm
GuyB, a poll option would be really nice for all those people who don't want comment and get into a pissing match with the trolls who live in this forum. People could cast their vote anonymously without getting involved with Vitards.

For all you people who are interested in further discussion and a poll, please email Dave Despain and let's get him talking about this incident on Wind Tunnel. Email or call:

windtunnel@speed.com
1-866-W-TUNNEL

Would love to see Dave crack this one open for discussion.
Hut
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2/17/2013 1:55pm
Jt$ wrote:
Atlanta 2007 I knocked myself out on the start of the heat race. Doctors asked me if I was knocked out, I said no. That's all...
Atlanta 2007 I knocked myself out on the start of the heat race. Doctors asked me if I was knocked out, I said no. That's all it took and I was racing the LCQ. Didn't really know where the track went but that's besides the point haha. IMO he was knocked out and then talked them into racing the lcq. His emotion/tears after the lcq is typical concussion symptom as well. My opinion doesn't mean squat but I was bummed they let him go back out there and luckily his second head first crash didn't hurt him badly.
Thanks for adding that, That's pretty much how any young man full of piss and vinegar would do it.
2/17/2013 2:01pm
35smom wrote:
I love the "I can guarantee" he was knocked out" quotes! Lucky your not a "real" doctor. Let me lay it out for you.... In the...
I love the "I can guarantee" he was knocked out" quotes! Lucky your not a "real" doctor. Let me lay it out for you.... In the past year Zach has broken his hip and femur extensively. He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again. And NO he doesn't have a concussion and WAS tested right after the crash. How you guys could actually believe Doc Bodnar would let a rider back out on the track with a head injury is beyond me. 99% of you don't know a thing about him.
Why do you think we have mandatory baseline testing? Stop with the conspiracy theories. You are dead wrong.
Zach knows when he can and cannot ride. Believe me.
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again". It's kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs
Regis
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2/17/2013 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:03pm
Jt$ wrote:
Atlanta 2007 I knocked myself out on the start of the heat race. Doctors asked me if I was knocked out, I said no. That's all...
Atlanta 2007 I knocked myself out on the start of the heat race. Doctors asked me if I was knocked out, I said no. That's all it took and I was racing the LCQ. Didn't really know where the track went but that's besides the point haha. IMO he was knocked out and then talked them into racing the lcq. His emotion/tears after the lcq is typical concussion symptom as well. My opinion doesn't mean squat but I was bummed they let him go back out there and luckily his second head first crash didn't hurt him badly.
Quick question JT$ -

in 2007 did they have any other procedures or baseline concussion testing, or was the test just asking you if you were ok?

for the others -

My argument is that things have improved and the staff at the races is top notch. Can things be better? If it could, it would be in place. Can it ever be perfect? Nope. We will have riders that want to fight to continue on, will not want to sit out and will lie and say they are ok. All we can do is fall back on what is available to check them out. NO offense to JT, but he lied in order to race, as any of us probably would have done. Had a baseline test been put into place in 2007 he may have failed and then forced to sit out.

If you can't prove, without a doubt that someone has a concussion, You guys are right in a sense that all doctors could be wrong, what if they were wrong in the assesment that someone has a concussion and makes them sit, woudl that be wrong? it isn't fair to make them sit becasue "it looked gnarly" or "he didn't move".

I am not arguing or looking to continue to argue with Black Diesel Bomber, Jhansen510, or anyone else. I know your guys opinion. You've gone full Vitard trying to change everyone elses'. it's all good, I get your points, no need to further try to prove your opinion on the matter to me.
mooch
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2/17/2013 2:30pm
mooch wrote:
Whew...please tell me you're not involved in the medical profession. If you are, maybe say what you do and where you do it so that we...
Whew...please tell me you're not involved in the medical profession. If you are, maybe say what you do and where you do it so that we can all avoid going there to be treated!

With my simple comment about a bruised lung vs a punctured lung that gave no real details to make any kind of guess on what had happened to me, you've once again jumped to some huge conclusions that have absolutely nothing concrete to support them! For your sake, please stop playing couch doc by whipping out your unfounded opinions before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Seriously.
This is the reason why you can't please everyone in medicine. You have no education in the medical field but yet you think you know what...
This is the reason why you can't please everyone in medicine. You have no education in the medical field but yet you think you know what the doctors should have done. Do you want to tell me what happened to you? Why did you go to the ER initially? If they took an x ray and it looked 100% normal there is nothing they can do. Have you ever heard of a spontaneous pneumothorax? It's when a lung randomly collapses for no explainable reason. The trauma from the crash could have led to that. The bottom line is that you had no immediate life threat at the time you were examined. It's not their fault that your lung didn't collapse for another week. Are you a pretty tall skinny guy? That makes you more susceptible to a spontaneous pneumo. Also if you smoke it increases your chance of having a collapsed lung. You probably wont answer those questions though because you're just pissed that your lung collapsed a week later and they didn't have any way of preventing it from happening a week earlier.
Hey no offense, but I'm not going to take the time to hash out the medical details related to my punctured lung with someone who's been as far off base as you have in this thread. Suffice it to say, I don't take every docs words as absolute gospel...especially couch docs.
Slow
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2/17/2013 2:33pm
you can only die once. there are always going to be more races. i would never let my child out there after that crash. i don't care if it was God telling me he was ok.
35smom
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2/17/2013 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 2:56pm
35smom wrote:
I love the "I can guarantee" he was knocked out" quotes! Lucky your not a "real" doctor. Let me lay it out for you.... In the...
I love the "I can guarantee" he was knocked out" quotes! Lucky your not a "real" doctor. Let me lay it out for you.... In the past year Zach has broken his hip and femur extensively. He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again. And NO he doesn't have a concussion and WAS tested right after the crash. How you guys could actually believe Doc Bodnar would let a rider back out on the track with a head injury is beyond me. 99% of you don't know a thing about him.
Why do you think we have mandatory baseline testing? Stop with the conspiracy theories. You are dead wrong.
Zach knows when he can and cannot ride. Believe me.
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would...
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again". It's kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on and off for the last 13 years. Is that enough for you?
And yes once these riders get hurt once in that way they know what could make it worse a second time. Isn't that commen sense?
Also Zach is 18. He's a pro rider. He's a smart kid.... Take that anyway you like
35smom
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2/17/2013 2:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 2:56pm
jhansen510 wrote:
JT$ your opinion is not valid because you have been racing sx and dealing with the asterisk crew for way too long. It's like people believe...
JT$ your opinion is not valid because you have been racing sx and dealing with the asterisk crew for way too long. It's like people believe that mistakes can't be made ands things can't and don't get overlooked. If your Vanilla782 you go to the church of Dr's and bow down before them. Actually I think he puts dr's above god, they are dr's so therefore they are perfect!

And 35's mom your kid races so therefore you know what you are talking about, right? WRONG!

I have talked to 2 riders that were racing lastnite and neither of them thought zack should be back out racing on the track with them after that wreck!
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally. I know what goes on. Everybody can have an opinion doesn't mean it's right. Do you know what the actual Concussion impact testing is?
Regis
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2/17/2013 2:57pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:06pm
35smom wrote:
I love the "I can guarantee" he was knocked out" quotes! Lucky your not a "real" doctor. Let me lay it out for you.... In the...
I love the "I can guarantee" he was knocked out" quotes! Lucky your not a "real" doctor. Let me lay it out for you.... In the past year Zach has broken his hip and femur extensively. He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again. And NO he doesn't have a concussion and WAS tested right after the crash. How you guys could actually believe Doc Bodnar would let a rider back out on the track with a head injury is beyond me. 99% of you don't know a thing about him.
Why do you think we have mandatory baseline testing? Stop with the conspiracy theories. You are dead wrong.
Zach knows when he can and cannot ride. Believe me.
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would...
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again". It's kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs
35smom wrote:
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on...
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on and off for the last 13 years. Is that enough for you?
And yes once these riders get hurt once in that way they know what could make it worse a second time. Isn't that commen sense?
Also Zach is 18. He's a pro rider. He's a smart kid.... Take that anyway you like
No, it won't be enough.

It will only be enough when you agree with Black Diesel Bomber and Jhansen510. It doesn't matter what you know, your experience with individuals directly involved or how little they know about the current system or people that run it.

They are obviously experts in this field and know everything that went into making the decision that allowed Zach to continue from the comfort of their couches last night.
mooch
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2/17/2013 2:59pm
35smom wrote:
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally...
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally. I know what goes on. Everybody can have an opinion doesn't mean it's right. Do you know what the actual Concussion impact testing is?
35s Mom...I asked this simple question of someone else and they skirted around answering it. Thought I'd run it past you.

How long does a person have to lay entirely motionless after taking a hard hit to the head before you would be concerned that they were knocked out?
Choppy
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2/17/2013 3:04pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:05pm
mooch wrote:
V782...tell me, just how long does someone need to lay TOTALLY motionless on the track after slamming their head on the ground while oncoming traffic continues...
V782...tell me, just how long does someone need to lay TOTALLY motionless on the track after slamming their head on the ground while oncoming traffic continues to go around theme before you accept the fact that they ARE knocked out?
The only person who knows if he was completely motionless is the guy that first walked up to assess him. When I've had the wind knocked...
The only person who knows if he was completely motionless is the guy that first walked up to assess him. When I've had the wind knocked out of me I have laid on the track completely motionless as bikes rode by because before I can move or stand I first need to be able to breathe. I learned that in EMT school too. The first priority is your circulation, your airway then your breathing, then getting off the track....Next question.
mooch wrote:
Wrong...the person that first walked up to assess him may have very well not have had a vantage point to see exactly how long he was...
Wrong...the person that first walked up to assess him may have very well not have had a vantage point to see exactly how long he was laying there totally motionless. It's clear from the vid below that he was initially motionless and then continued to be in that state for quite some time. But it sounds like your saying that watching this video of a person slamming their head and then laying motionless for that long is totally meaningless in coming to any kind of conclusion as to whether they were knocked out?

If you weren't already neck deep in arguing the point that Zack did not suffer a concussion and instead were seeing this video for the first time...you'd be saying "yep, he looks knocked out cold to me".

I'm sure none of the professionals there were able to look up at the worlds largest TV screen to see the crash....
2/17/2013 3:04pm
mooch wrote:
Wow!!! ... Amazing how folks such as Whnuckle and BobbyM posted one thing a year ago on this same subject and now they've done a 180...
Wow!!! ... Amazing how folks such as Whnuckle and BobbyM posted one thing a year ago on this same subject and now they've done a 180 and have a totally different opinion. How does that happen?
That's because they are tool bag trolls just like everyone else in this thread who is doubting Zach was knocked out cold....
I actually thought he was dead, when I saw the last head movement I got scared that the spine was touched (as Jeremy Lusk). He got the minimum damage, just knocking himself out for a few seconds.

Racing the same day: no (especially with such a crash), I cannot blame Asterix, they are an improvement in this sport, and they only do what they are asked to do.

I have nothing against Zach, I just hope he stays in 1 piece, MX/SX is just a sport and he is only 18 with 60 years ahead, he needs to calm down because his debut are really scary.

Conclusion: that is the past, we will not change it, fortunately it did not end in drama, but the other thread talking about giving more rules to rookies / riders would benefit to the sport (i.e. no cross jumping when no space left with another rider behind, no big triple/quad the first lap, major crash in heat or LCQ = no more racing, no pass under yellow flag, chess/back protection mandatory, etc, with penalties, no start or black flag) Theses changes are important for the sport, as sincerely, when you watch this on tv, no responsible parents would like their kids to race and that is why the sport is not growing.
mooch
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2/17/2013 3:06pm
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would...
Are you Zach's Mom? If yes that's pretty sad you would say these things like this - "He did not move because he knows movement would do damage if that had happened again". It's kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs
35smom wrote:
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on...
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on and off for the last 13 years. Is that enough for you?
And yes once these riders get hurt once in that way they know what could make it worse a second time. Isn't that commen sense?
Also Zach is 18. He's a pro rider. He's a smart kid.... Take that anyway you like
Regis wrote:
No, it won't be enough. It will only be enough when you agree with Black Diesel Bomber and Jhansen510. It doesn't matter what you know, your...
No, it won't be enough.

It will only be enough when you agree with Black Diesel Bomber and Jhansen510. It doesn't matter what you know, your experience with individuals directly involved or how little they know about the current system or people that run it.

They are obviously experts in this field and know everything that went into making the decision that allowed Zach to continue from the comfort of their couches last night.
Oh C'mon Regis...you'd have a person believe that simply because 35smom is close friends with the Bells and her son rides regularly with Zack that we should all look at her opinion as some sort of proof that Zack was not knocked out?

The only thing that says to me is that she's more biased than anyone in this thread and is very likely gonna stick up for her friends.
Regis
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2/17/2013 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:19pm
35smom wrote:
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally...
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally. I know what goes on. Everybody can have an opinion doesn't mean it's right. Do you know what the actual Concussion impact testing is?
mooch wrote:
35s Mom...I asked this simple question of someone else and they skirted around answering it. Thought I'd run it past you. How long does a person...
35s Mom...I asked this simple question of someone else and they skirted around answering it. Thought I'd run it past you.

How long does a person have to lay entirely motionless after taking a hard hit to the head before you would be concerned that they were knocked out?
that's a loaded question.

It depends. Are they laying there motionless because they are indeed knocked out? Or are they laying there, scared shitless about moving?

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE CASE WAS LAST NIGHT - let me get that clear as possible. I wasn't there, I wasn't the first to him, just like the rest of us. I know it sure looked as though he was out cold.

However, I trust that the medics that got to him and assessed the situation and drove him back to the pits have a way better idea then any of us do!
35smom
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2/17/2013 3:11pm
35smom wrote:
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally...
So your telling me you would take the "opinion" of 2 people over a Doctor? It's not just that my son races.... He races now professionally. I know what goes on. Everybody can have an opinion doesn't mean it's right. Do you know what the actual Concussion impact testing is?
mooch wrote:
35s Mom...I asked this simple question of someone else and they skirted around answering it. Thought I'd run it past you. How long does a person...
35s Mom...I asked this simple question of someone else and they skirted around answering it. Thought I'd run it past you.

How long does a person have to lay entirely motionless after taking a hard hit to the head before you would be concerned that they were knocked out?
There is no doubt that was exactly what I thought. It certainly looked like it but the test was negative. So what else is there to say? Honestly I'm so glad he's okay. Zach is one of the nicest politest kids you will ever meet. :-)
2/17/2013 3:11pm
35smom wrote:
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on...
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on and off for the last 13 years. Is that enough for you?
And yes once these riders get hurt once in that way they know what could make it worse a second time. Isn't that commen sense?
Also Zach is 18. He's a pro rider. He's a smart kid.... Take that anyway you like
I feel for those kids....can't imagine any parent allowing their kid to hop back on the bike after being TKOd in a crash like that. Just thank god he is okay and didn't kill himself or someone else during his second crash.
Choppy
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2/17/2013 3:12pm
The professionals don't know what they're talking about.
The kid has no idea what he's talking about.
The team had no idea what they are talking.
RacerX has no idea what they're talking about.
Transworld has no idea what they're talking about.

Who should we listen to and believe?
Regis
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2/17/2013 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:17pm
35smom wrote:
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on...
No I'm not....but his Mom is one if my best friends. Does that qualify? My son has been racing, traveling and living with the Bells on and off for the last 13 years. Is that enough for you?
And yes once these riders get hurt once in that way they know what could make it worse a second time. Isn't that commen sense?
Also Zach is 18. He's a pro rider. He's a smart kid.... Take that anyway you like
Regis wrote:
No, it won't be enough. It will only be enough when you agree with Black Diesel Bomber and Jhansen510. It doesn't matter what you know, your...
No, it won't be enough.

It will only be enough when you agree with Black Diesel Bomber and Jhansen510. It doesn't matter what you know, your experience with individuals directly involved or how little they know about the current system or people that run it.

They are obviously experts in this field and know everything that went into making the decision that allowed Zach to continue from the comfort of their couches last night.
mooch wrote:
Oh C'mon Regis...you'd have a person believe that simply because 35smom is close friends with the Bells and her son rides regularly with Zack that we...
Oh C'mon Regis...you'd have a person believe that simply because 35smom is close friends with the Bells and her son rides regularly with Zack that we should all look at her opinion as some sort of proof that Zack was not knocked out?

The only thing that says to me is that she's more biased than anyone in this thread and is very likely gonna stick up for her friends.
No, not entirely.

I believe the doctors that attended to him that were by his side within seconds and then allowed him to continue.
rstaichi
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2/17/2013 3:20pm
I usally never post on here but had to after that.

Last night was the first night I felt sick watching supercross. I feel all the people in Zack corner are idiots. In my mind he was knocked out (head injury) and should had someone that really cared about him tell him not to go back out and fight another day...and then he lands on his head again!!!. Made me sick to my stomach!

Im 43 loved bikes my hole life. Ridden and raced (roadrace-mx-offroad) sence 17 and havent been riding since June of 08 due too...head injurys. (broke 15 bones and would allways come back) If you had them you know what im talking about...it sucks. Ive had mutable little ones like most but had two bad ones that have change my life...and personality some say.
I have two young boys and hope they ride someday (so does wife and shes a ICU nurse) because I love bikes. And if they ever get knocked out like that (in any sport) If i have a say they would be taking a long break...look at Broc H.

If I was him I would of gone back out too, teenager wanting to take it on at all cost. When I got knocked out, I never had dilated eyes or would throw up but i new my head was messed up and I'm sure he was feeling it too and wasnt on his A game.(and probably lead to his next crash) I cant say who would make that call for him but i really would of thought manager /parents might think of whats best for him in the long run.

Its just sad to me and I'm not a Dr by anymeans but know alittle about this and it made me sick to see what happened last night. It funny most people dont think of it being a big deal to be knocked out (i was like that too) and when your brain goes wrong there is no getting it back. I have often wondered if James wrecks have slowed him down due to smack's to the head.

Point is it really made me feel sick and sad to see what happened and I allmost turn it off and went to bed.
Hope Zack is fine after this and all this bitchen was for nothing.
mooch
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2/17/2013 3:22pm
The only person who knows if he was completely motionless is the guy that first walked up to assess him. When I've had the wind knocked...
The only person who knows if he was completely motionless is the guy that first walked up to assess him. When I've had the wind knocked out of me I have laid on the track completely motionless as bikes rode by because before I can move or stand I first need to be able to breathe. I learned that in EMT school too. The first priority is your circulation, your airway then your breathing, then getting off the track....Next question.
mooch wrote:
Wrong...the person that first walked up to assess him may have very well not have had a vantage point to see exactly how long he was...
Wrong...the person that first walked up to assess him may have very well not have had a vantage point to see exactly how long he was laying there totally motionless. It's clear from the vid below that he was initially motionless and then continued to be in that state for quite some time. But it sounds like your saying that watching this video of a person slamming their head and then laying motionless for that long is totally meaningless in coming to any kind of conclusion as to whether they were knocked out?

If you weren't already neck deep in arguing the point that Zack did not suffer a concussion and instead were seeing this video for the first time...you'd be saying "yep, he looks knocked out cold to me".

Choppy wrote:
I'm sure none of the professionals there were able to look up at the worlds largest TV screen to see the crash....
LoL...so, now you're saying the medics were taking the time to watch the big screen in the stadium rather than tending to their patient who was just knocked out!

Rather than accepting what you see in the vid posted here that undeniably shows Zack laying entirely motionless for a long period of time , you guys prefer to ignore that by denying he was ever knocked out. Now you're concocting scenarios such as medical crews having every possible shred of proof available to come up with an infallible determination on whether he was knocked out.

I'm not so much saying that he was undeniably knocked out. But rather, I'm surprised by the folks here who want to state it as an undeniable fact that there was no way he was concussed. The rationale used by those who say he wasn't knocked out hinges on information that is no where near as telling as that vid is.
2/17/2013 3:24pm
mooch wrote:
Hey no offense, but I'm not going to take the time to hash out the medical details related to my punctured lung with someone who's been...
Hey no offense, but I'm not going to take the time to hash out the medical details related to my punctured lung with someone who's been as far off base as you have in this thread. Suffice it to say, I don't take every docs words as absolute gospel...especially couch docs.
See this is what happens in ER's all day long. You are not familiar with why the doctors did different things and I'm trying to answer your questions but because they aren't the answers you wanted you don't want to talk about it. If I was so off base you would be able to prove that I'm wrong by answering my questions but you don't want to answer the questions because you know I'm right.
mooch
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Fantasy
2/17/2013 3:28pm
Choppy wrote:
The professionals don't know what they're talking about. The kid has no idea what he's talking about. The team had no idea what they are talking...
The professionals don't know what they're talking about.
The kid has no idea what he's talking about.
The team had no idea what they are talking.
RacerX has no idea what they're talking about.
Transworld has no idea what they're talking about.

Who should we listen to and believe?
Sorry, Flawed logic again...

Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources...

-Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what would be his motivation to say that?)
-Medics on the scene using testing methods that are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Watching the video posted her of him laying there entirely motionless for that length of time is a more substantial piece of evidence that indicates Zack was knocked out.
Choppy
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2/17/2013 3:32pm
Choppy wrote:
The professionals don't know what they're talking about. The kid has no idea what he's talking about. The team had no idea what they are talking...
The professionals don't know what they're talking about.
The kid has no idea what he's talking about.
The team had no idea what they are talking.
RacerX has no idea what they're talking about.
Transworld has no idea what they're talking about.

Who should we listen to and believe?
mooch wrote:
Sorry, Flawed logic again... Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources... -Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what...
Sorry, Flawed logic again...

Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources...

-Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what would be his motivation to say that?)
-Medics on the scene using testing methods that are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Watching the video posted her of him laying there entirely motionless for that length of time is a more substantial piece of evidence that indicates Zack was knocked out.
I'm just asking a simple question.

Who should we believe if not any of them?
Regis
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Gonzales, LA, USA
Fantasy
2/17/2013 3:35pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:40pm
Choppy wrote:
The professionals don't know what they're talking about. The kid has no idea what he's talking about. The team had no idea what they are talking...
The professionals don't know what they're talking about.
The kid has no idea what he's talking about.
The team had no idea what they are talking.
RacerX has no idea what they're talking about.
Transworld has no idea what they're talking about.

Who should we listen to and believe?
mooch wrote:
Sorry, Flawed logic again... Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources... -Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what...
Sorry, Flawed logic again...

Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources...

-Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what would be his motivation to say that?)
-Medics on the scene using testing methods that are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Watching the video posted her of him laying there entirely motionless for that length of time is a more substantial piece of evidence that indicates Zack was knocked out.
Mooch,

Can you please fill us in on the testing methods they used last night to determine he was deemed ok to ride?

You compare it to flipping a coin, so you obviously know the procedure and how it was determined last night. please explain it to us.



Matter of fact, can we have any of the people that believe he should not have raced please explain the current system in place and how it is determined wether or not a rider is ok to continue.


The real answer, is... None of you know. You are taking what you saw on TV and using ONLY that to make your decision.

That is wrong.

It is wrong to say the system is broke or not right if you don't know what it is or what was done. So until anyone here can explain in detail the exact happenings of everything after the crash and prove it was the wrong decision should believe everyone that was directly involved. It isn't one huge conspiracy.
2/17/2013 3:35pm
mooch wrote:
Sorry, Flawed logic again... Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources... -Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what...
Sorry, Flawed logic again...

Each one of those sources you list is is taken from two sources...

-Zack claiming he was not knocked out (hmm what would be his motivation to say that?)
-Medics on the scene using testing methods that are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Watching the video posted her of him laying there entirely motionless for that length of time is a more substantial piece of evidence that indicates Zack was knocked out.
You have a very good point. You're saying that people that talked to him first hand are less informed than you because you saw what happened on TV.....

Their methods aren't as accurate as flipping a coin. They probably asked him if he could remember what happened and asked him basic questions to figure out whether he was oriented to person, place, and time. If they have no evidence that he had a concussion and they checked him out from head to toe with no indication of a problem they have no reason to make him sit out.
mooch
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USA
Fantasy
2/17/2013 3:36pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2013 3:37pm
See this is what happens in ER's all day long. You are not familiar with why the doctors did different things and I'm trying to answer...
See this is what happens in ER's all day long. You are not familiar with why the doctors did different things and I'm trying to answer your questions but because they aren't the answers you wanted you don't want to talk about it. If I was so off base you would be able to prove that I'm wrong by answering my questions but you don't want to answer the questions because you know I'm right.
You have absolutely no idea what your talking about so now your just making shit up....quite frankly, you're so far off the deep end I don't even know what you're talking about in this last post. Please don't bother elaborating further as it's beginning to look like you're now gettin pissy because I won't share my medical details with you.

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