Horse Power Not CC's

Edited Date/Time 11/25/2012 12:52pm
Only true way to solve the 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is to put horsepower limits in the classes. Cuts down the costs and levels the playing field. We already have weight restrictions.
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SwapperMX
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11/24/2012 7:28am
Only true way to solve the 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is to put horsepower limits in the classes. Cuts down the costs and levels the...
Only true way to solve the 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is to put horsepower limits in the classes. Cuts down the costs and levels the playing field. We already have weight restrictions.
Are you going to cart the dyno from track to track to make sure no one is cheating ???
flarider
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11/24/2012 7:30am
SwapperMX wrote:
Are you going to cart the dyno from track to track to make sure no one is cheating ???
Exactly

Maybe you own a mobile dyno business and looking to score a few bucks?
SwapperMX
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11/24/2012 7:33am
flarider wrote:
Exactly

Maybe you own a mobile dyno business and looking to score a few bucks?
HAHAHAHA !!!
JW381
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11/24/2012 7:35am
This is stolen intellectual property from a thread post by me a few minutes ago. Disregard, especially if you disagree.

The Shop

11/24/2012 7:41am
JW381 ? I offered an idea.......the noose is around my neck, you can pull the trap door whenever your ready.
SwapperMX
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11/24/2012 7:47am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 7:48am
Hey dirtroad, dont get too upset man. You have a valid point, and very similar things have been written and spoken about for a while. I think something really needs to be done regarding current racing classes, but as to what the answer is, well that is the hard part. I dont see manufacturers moving away from the 450cc motorcycle anytime soon. They sell way too many of them. And I dont see FIM suddenly changing class capacities, as they are influenced by the manufacturers. So it's a vicious circle that doesnt look like it is going to change.
flarider
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11/24/2012 7:54am
HP is not the fix
Suspension is.

Reduce suspension, you reduce speeds and on-track capabilities
11/24/2012 8:00am
So the AMA and the FIM sort of control what the industry manufactures....right off the edge of a cliff...........whos running the show?
motogrady
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11/24/2012 8:02am
So the AMA and the FIM sort of control what the industry manufactures....right off the edge of a cliff...........whos running the show?
You have it backwards

DC was on here awhile back, was at the board meeting when Yamaha really pushed the 450 thing.

Right now, it's the manufactures that are calling the shots.
SwapperMX
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11/24/2012 8:04am
So the AMA and the FIM sort of control what the industry manufactures....right off the edge of a cliff...........whos running the show?
Nah, other way round. The manufacturers decide what they want to build, and then make the FIM and AMA provide a rule book based around what has been built, and that is why we currently have 250 four stroke and 450 four stroke classes.
11/24/2012 8:05am
Guess we need an opposing mx/sx race organization.......AMA and FIM have the monopoly on racing and what they say goes. BULL%&$#@!!!!!
brimx153
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11/24/2012 11:34am
horse power idea is really really stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , u can go out and get a 500 cc two stroke , which has way more hp than a 450 f , its not hp that make the four stroke rule , its the torque they produce , may add i am a two stroke fan , but i go alot quicker on the four stroke , easier ride
BobbyM
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11/24/2012 11:49am
flarider wrote:
HP is not the fix
Suspension is.

Reduce suspension, you reduce speeds and on-track capabilities
and tire pressure... definitely tire pressure.

Wink _
11/24/2012 11:58am
BRIMX153. Its an idea. like when your mom and dad boinked each other and had you.......
gsxr6
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11/24/2012 12:20pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2012 1:46pm
brimx153 wrote:
horse power idea is really really stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , u can go out and get a 500 cc two stroke , which has way more hp...
horse power idea is really really stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , u can go out and get a 500 cc two stroke , which has way more hp than a 450 f , its not hp that make the four stroke rule , its the torque they produce , may add i am a two stroke fan , but i go alot quicker on the four stroke , easier ride
all the 100,000 dollar factory race bikes being four stroke only is the real problem. Ktm no doubt could field a competetive 250 2t indoors. Hell some of the smaller riders would probably ride them better than they do a 450. A switch down to 350cc for the four strokes would def hasten the return of the two stroke. O and for anyone who thinks that the 10000 rpm peak 450s we get now are a bit maintenance heavy, wait till they sell u a 13500 rpm grenade.
brimx153
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11/24/2012 2:10pm
brimx153 wrote:
horse power idea is really really stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , u can go out and get a 500 cc two stroke , which has way more hp...
horse power idea is really really stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , u can go out and get a 500 cc two stroke , which has way more hp than a 450 f , its not hp that make the four stroke rule , its the torque they produce , may add i am a two stroke fan , but i go alot quicker on the four stroke , easier ride
gsxr6 wrote:
all the 100,000 dollar factory race bikes being four stroke only is the real problem. Ktm no doubt could field a competetive 250 2t indoors. Hell...
all the 100,000 dollar factory race bikes being four stroke only is the real problem. Ktm no doubt could field a competetive 250 2t indoors. Hell some of the smaller riders would probably ride them better than they do a 450. A switch down to 350cc for the four strokes would def hasten the return of the two stroke. O and for anyone who thinks that the 10000 rpm peak 450s we get now are a bit maintenance heavy, wait till they sell u a 13500 rpm grenade.
i want 2 strokes back , i think the cost of 4 stroke s and the noise is ruining the sport , all levels , i think maybe if they had 250f v 250 , then yes we would see a good return of the two stroke which would be great , but my point is , that the 250 two stroke would produce a lot more HP than a 250f , especially a factory one , that s why the equal hp , would never work , the 350 produces nearly the same hp as a 450 , that s my point , thats what the tread is about hp not cc , it just would never work , agree with ur 13500 rpm grenade , but sure the 350 is heading that way anyway ,
brimx153
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11/24/2012 2:28pm
BRIMX153. Its an idea. like when your mom and dad boinked each other and had you.......
ha i dont think my parents ever had an idea about me lol , i think ur right that something need s to be done , would love two stroke s to be back big time , think 4 stroke are really ruining the sport , to expensive to run , way to loud , all the track s shutting down , just think hp instead of cc is never going to work , year s ago a factory 125 cc was making 50hp for the fist 30 mins , thats near the same hp as a 250f and a 250f has a huge advantage over a 125 , my idea would be set the sound level at 88 dl , then the two stroke could come back , this is why the two stroke came to power in the first place , back in the late 70 s this noise prob happened then , that s what happened 4 stroke s ,
Radical
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11/24/2012 9:08pm
Change the classes to:
125 2 vs 175 4
250 2 vs 350 4

During a transition period of say 2 years for pro and 5 years for amateur, allow older 250 and 450 4 strokes to race with a rev limiter limiting maximum RPMs.

This gives the factories some time to retool, and keeps the cost down for amateurs who have recently purchased bikes.
It also brings the 125 back as the standard for the Lites class and provides the right stepping stone from the 85 class.

It also reduces the speed slightly which in my opinion is necessary to keep the riders safe.
Lowering displacement is something Indy car does every few years.
Radical
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11/24/2012 9:08pm
Maybe go up to 200 for 4 strokes in the lites class.
peelout
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11/25/2012 10:43am
flarider wrote:
HP is not the fix
Suspension is.

Reduce suspension, you reduce speeds and on-track capabilities
BobbyM wrote:
and tire pressure... definitely tire pressure.

Wink _
Helium Pressure
KlootZak
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11/25/2012 12:31pm
It's actually not a bad idea and it can be done.

The 'race' engines can be put on a dyno (doesn't matter when but I has to be before the race where the engine is being used) and after the test they just seal the engine. If the seals are broken, then the engine is DQ and rider doesn't gain points for that specific race. Race teams can test their engine on race day or even before that (HQ AMA or something?)

It will never be done, but it could be and it isn't such a bad idea (Youthstreams ideas are much worse!) as most vitards thinks.
BAD10
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11/25/2012 12:45pm
Along with the shortened suspension, lets just make them run square wheels. That will slow things down considerably....................
dilligaf
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11/25/2012 12:52pm
They tried to do this in Formula usa road racing 10 years ago and it was a total drama. If people think there is trickery going on now with electronics.... its was a joke 10 years ago when electronics just started to appear in road racing. How do you control a bike that is under the "peak horsepower" limit yet has 7-8 ft lbs more torque than a 2 stroke along with a power spread that is huge (think torque over 20 ft lbs from 7,000 - 14,000 rpms in a 250 4 stroke).

The idea of limiting cc's would only drive costs even higher! Smaller engine needs to be turning more rpm's to make power and then motors start going to shit real fast. Only the well funded teams will replace the wear items and the small guys will blow up or just run slower bikes.

I think we have a great season shaping up with the 450 class looking to be a fight and the 250's I hope go all the way to vegas for the titles again with several teams in the mix. How is this bad? Several privateers have broke into the top 5 in the lites class in 2012 and have proven that you don't need a 2 million dollar budget to do well and be seen. In the 450 class a rider needs to work on training and the fact a 450 with a pipe and very few mods can run in the top 10 is good for costs!

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