Davey Coombs and MX

Trip
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7/22/2008 12:44pm
Not afraid of change if it makes the experience better for me. Just don't see how one moto, Saturday racing, and live TV on a Saturday afternoon makes it any better for me.


When looking at changing, all things need to be looked at. DC living in West Virginia, knows all to well how people of color are treated. Ever wonder why they are no black guys racing NASCAR? I'm sure there are some very capable black guys who can race a car. They just don't really have a chance to do it.

Just where do you think these new fans who will be watching the race on a Saturday afternoon are coming from. Like it or not, the same crowd that watches NASCAR are going to be the ones who watch mx.
Do you really think inner city kids are going all the sudden find a mx race on TV and then they start buying mx gear instead of LeBron and Kobe garb?
7/22/2008 12:52pm
Trip wrote:
Not afraid of change if it makes the experience better for me. Just don't see how one moto, Saturday racing, and live TV on a Saturday...
Not afraid of change if it makes the experience better for me. Just don't see how one moto, Saturday racing, and live TV on a Saturday afternoon makes it any better for me.


When looking at changing, all things need to be looked at. DC living in West Virginia, knows all to well how people of color are treated. Ever wonder why they are no black guys racing NASCAR? I'm sure there are some very capable black guys who can race a car. They just don't really have a chance to do it.

Just where do you think these new fans who will be watching the race on a Saturday afternoon are coming from. Like it or not, the same crowd that watches NASCAR are going to be the ones who watch mx.
Do you really think inner city kids are going all the sudden find a mx race on TV and then they start buying mx gear instead of LeBron and Kobe garb?
I guarantee to you Stewart has sold more fox t-shirts then all of their other riders combined. Thinking a black rider hurts mx popularity is ignorant. Saturday MX makes perfect sense to me, im willing to bet more people would rather watch a race on sat then sun. I dont agree with one moto helping, but who knows maybe it will. The biggest problem is TV time, and MX not being visually appealing. Having Stewart and RV in the lead by 2 minutes isnt going to draw a crowd and watching MX on tv is boring, there is no getting around that. Unless you know what it takes, its just one guy twisting his wrist a lot harder then the other guys.
Pdub
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7/22/2008 1:22pm
There's no need to get personal in this thread, guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Trip, I am positive you have anecdotal evidence to back up your claim that the new MX tv audience will be primarily NASCAR-loving racists. I don't have the same evidence, and so won't make the same claim. I think there are many populations that watch TV and don't currently watch MX but will if given the chance; the group you name is just one of them.

And I don't think a single poster on this thread has made the claim that more tv coverage will cause "inner city kids" to start buying mx gear, but I get your point. What you're missing is that exposure is what it's all about, and it takes a concerted effort and TIME for that exposure to have any effect at all.

That said, if you google, "Baltimore dirt bikes in the city" you'll find that some "inner city kids" ARE in fact buying mx stuff...!
7/22/2008 1:24pm
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff

The Shop

Sinbad
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7/22/2008 1:28pm
Racetime wrote:
I can't wait for DORNA 2 also....

Dumbgeon....

Don't listen to him he is just bitter he now has to get a real job working in an office 8 to 5. He is also a bit pissed he bet on the wrong horse and instead of admitting it he tried to put a spin that it was leash free media.
ns503
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7/22/2008 1:30pm
Trip wrote:
A few things, why do we want more fans to go to a mx race? If more people are interested in going, that means less camping...
A few things, why do we want more fans to go to a mx race? If more people are interested in going, that means less camping spaces, higher ticket prices, higher camping fees, more people fighting for a good spot to watch the race. I can think of a bunch of negatives by having the sport be more mainstream.
Saturday racing?? Just how many people are home in the middle of Saturday afternoon? The movie wasn't called "On ANY Saturday", Sunday has always been race day.
Isn't DC heavily involved in all aspects of the outdoor mx season as it is now? He has a pretty big voice, and I'm thinking if he had these great ideas, we would of seen them before 09. They need to figure out who they want to market the sport to, and then build from there. So far they seem clueless who their audience is.
Good luck to him, but if he thinks Saturday live racing is the answer, he is dead wrong. Is anyone really going to want to follow a sport where the winner is the same every week? Much less winning by a landslide? This may sound crazy, but people watch sports and sporting events to see who wins. Same two guys winning by a huge margin every week isn't really going to attract an audience.

Me, I don't care about this but there is a lot of people who watch NASCAR who do not care for black people, period, it isn't even debatable. The future fans of mx are those NASCAR fans. Having the same winner every week, then having him be black? Your not going to change a nation, but unless they get some parity in the sport, all the TV in world isn't going to do any good.
I think somebody is a little bit scared of change...
Sounds more like scared of the dark...
jtomasik
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7/22/2008 1:32pm
Trip, fans can contribute more than just buying a bike and riding. Heck, if Stew becomes a "superstar", Nike might sign him and sponsor MX. That money adds strength to the sport.

Yeah, some percentage might actually buy bikes and start riding. Obviously that will help, too.

There are many ways that live TV can help MX.
7/22/2008 1:33pm
jtomasik wrote:
Trip, fans can contribute more than just buying a bike and riding. Heck, if Stew becomes a "superstar", Nike might sign him and sponsor MX. That...
Trip, fans can contribute more than just buying a bike and riding. Heck, if Stew becomes a "superstar", Nike might sign him and sponsor MX. That money adds strength to the sport.

Yeah, some percentage might actually buy bikes and start riding. Obviously that will help, too.

There are many ways that live TV can help MX.
Not if a black man is winning!
Cygnus
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7/22/2008 1:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2008 1:34pm
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff
Idiot!!!
BobbyM
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7/22/2008 1:34pm
rider promotion is key I think. you need to get the youngsters hooked, remember when debbie gibson and tiffany went huge by going all mall? not saying moto needs mall appearances but the seed needs to be planted somewhere. a 5-10 year plan needs to be in place. the jay leno show etc. was a great starting place but somebody dropped the ball there I suppose. moto excitement can never be captured on tv...never. but it can be made way better than it is now. either go full bore professional or full bore x-games xtreme deal, but it needs to change from the way it is.

mx is in good hands with dc and crew. some people want it to fail though...weird thinking to me.
peeps sr
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7/22/2008 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2008 1:35pm
I wonder if the RC era had something to do with the lack of public interest. The same guy winning for seven straight years gets a...
I wonder if the RC era had something to do with the lack of public interest. The same guy winning for seven straight years gets a little predictable. No drama, no racing for the lead, no doubt as to who would win. RC became the only story-- if we had more guys battling for the lead the sport would grow.
If that's the case then we're double fucked...
7/22/2008 1:36pm
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff
Cygnus wrote:
Idiot!!!
Why?
Lightning78
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7/22/2008 1:39pm
Maybe (and don't shoot me for this) they can reduce the moto's to two 20 minute moto's this would still allow for the 2 moto format plus it might fit in the parameters of time TV is willing to give us....... and again before anyone disputes this, 20 minute moto's would

1. Keep the bikes from running out of gas
2. Less wear and tear on the 250f's, easier on privateers
3. There would be closer racing as most will charge the entire time since the race is shorter, Stewart and MAYBE a few select others can run for 30 + 2 at full speed everyone else fades (might even shorten the gap he keeps winning by lol)

Now I know its not "traditional" but it's a slight change that may appease both core and armchair fans
7/22/2008 1:53pm
This idea of "thats not real motocross" needs to go. If you want the sport to survive you have to make changes. One big change that needs to be done is the enforcement of the production rule. There needs to be skilled technical people tearing down the top bikes every week after races and checking out motors, frames, ect. You improve the product on the track and everything else will fall into place. The racing sucks, you have one guy dominating the lites and one guy dominating the mx class and aside from 1 or 2 years its been that way for the past 15 years. What is the point of night races, tv coverage, and improved facilities if the racing sucks?
Shenzi
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7/22/2008 2:08pm
JTomasik has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread. Of course change is difficult, of course a 1-moto format is not good for the sport, of course TV is vital.

TV brings more audience, more spectators and series sponsors as well as riders/teams sponsors. TV is an American marketing tool and to grow (survive?) in this market, TV is a must.

The pro series, as well as the industry in general, need new users, newcomers to the sport, be it on road and off road and this can be achieved through a stronger presence on TV.

DC has been consulting and listening to a lot of people in the last 6 months. He has been reading the boards too, to get a better idea of what we want. Of course he is against the 1-moto format but at the same time they need to find the best combo for TV and for the fans at the races, as well as the hardcore ones on the forums.

The idea is to get more people to the races, make Saturday interesting and fun again, motivate the riders to give it all in all races, motivating them and keeping them away from SX-only deals.

The SBK format of "1 moto on Sat and 1 moto on Sundays" is a very good idea. Both races would give championship points, the fans would have more to see over the 2-days and it will make it worth its while driving 700 miles to go watch a National.

I would like to see more WMA races and some ATV Nationals combo'd to that too, like they have it planned for Steel City this year.
Cygnus
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7/22/2008 2:21pm
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff
hmmmm I wouldnt say the Baltimore video is of people that "bought" MX stuff
Cygnus wrote:
Idiot!!!
Why?
It should have read Racist !!!
mxnick
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7/22/2008 2:34pm
motogrady wrote:

1 moto ain't moto. Dorna tried it and it flunked.

Dorna tried it with one moto per class, and had three classes, for a total of three races over the course of the weekend. That did not work out. This is NOT what is being proposed though. The way i understand, is that they keep the two moto format, and just do away with the overall winner tabulation of points, which is confusing. There would still be two motos, but instead the finishes would just be "Race one" and "Race two" Simple enough. I think it could be cool!
FreshTopEnd
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7/22/2008 2:37pm
That's essentially what it is now and has been since points were paid based on moto finishes rather than the overall. The substance remains the same.
mxnick
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7/22/2008 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:44pm
Shenzi wrote:
JTomasik has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread. Of course change is difficult, of course a 1-moto format is not good for the...
JTomasik has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread. Of course change is difficult, of course a 1-moto format is not good for the sport, of course TV is vital.

TV brings more audience, more spectators and series sponsors as well as riders/teams sponsors. TV is an American marketing tool and to grow (survive?) in this market, TV is a must.

The pro series, as well as the industry in general, need new users, newcomers to the sport, be it on road and off road and this can be achieved through a stronger presence on TV.

DC has been consulting and listening to a lot of people in the last 6 months. He has been reading the boards too, to get a better idea of what we want. Of course he is against the 1-moto format but at the same time they need to find the best combo for TV and for the fans at the races, as well as the hardcore ones on the forums.

The idea is to get more people to the races, make Saturday interesting and fun again, motivate the riders to give it all in all races, motivating them and keeping them away from SX-only deals.

The SBK format of "1 moto on Sat and 1 moto on Sundays" is a very good idea. Both races would give championship points, the fans would have more to see over the 2-days and it will make it worth its while driving 700 miles to go watch a National.

I would like to see more WMA races and some ATV Nationals combo'd to that too, like they have it planned for Steel City this year.
Shenzi, WSB (World Superbike) races on one day formats - so they have two races per day. The actual races are not spread out over two days, but there is the Superpole, etc.

For example, when they (WSCool raced at Laguna Seca, they raced Sunday at 1pm and 3.30pm, and had support races inbetween.

In theory with MX, you could keep the existing sunday afternoon schedule (if it is not moved to saturday or saturday night or whatever) and just drop the overall score for the combined two motos (see my previous post). Simple enough!

mxnick
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7/22/2008 2:40pm
That's essentially what it is now and has been since points were paid based on moto finishes rather than the overall. The substance remains the same.
FTE, you are correct.
jtomasik
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7/22/2008 2:42pm
mxnick wrote:
Dorna tried it with one moto per class, and had three classes, for a total of three races over the course of the weekend. That did...
Dorna tried it with one moto per class, and had three classes, for a total of three races over the course of the weekend. That did not work out. This is NOT what is being proposed though. The way i understand, is that they keep the two moto format, and just do away with the overall winner tabulation of points, which is confusing. There would still be two motos, but instead the finishes would just be "Race one" and "Race two" Simple enough. I think it could be cool!
I didn't even get into this because comparing Dorna to what Coombs' crew is doing is apples to oranges. Hear Coombs out. Provide feedback. I'd bet the guy would listen to logic.
twizzler
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7/22/2008 3:20pm
All 2-strokes would make the racing sound better!
mxnick
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7/22/2008 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2008 3:27pm
mxnick wrote:
Dorna tried it with one moto per class, and had three classes, for a total of three races over the course of the weekend. That did...
Dorna tried it with one moto per class, and had three classes, for a total of three races over the course of the weekend. That did not work out. This is NOT what is being proposed though. The way i understand, is that they keep the two moto format, and just do away with the overall winner tabulation of points, which is confusing. There would still be two motos, but instead the finishes would just be "Race one" and "Race two" Simple enough. I think it could be cool!
jtomasik wrote:
I didn't even get into this because comparing Dorna to what Coombs' crew is doing is apples to oranges. Hear Coombs out. Provide feedback. I'd bet...
I didn't even get into this because comparing Dorna to what Coombs' crew is doing is apples to oranges. Hear Coombs out. Provide feedback. I'd bet the guy would listen to logic.
I agree, lets hear them out and see what they propose. I am sure they will do this with the imput of the various stakeholders.
WhipMeister
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7/22/2008 3:53pm
You could keep the two moto format, but make the second moto more critical by paying a hefty additional bonus ($$$ or points) for the overall finish for the weekend, in addition to that paid out per moto . Then, show only the second moto on the broadcast (you could show both motos on the web), harping on what happened in moto 1 and what's additionally at stake for each rider in terms of the overall.

NASCAR pays bonus championship points for all kinds of crap. It works there.

And telemetry. Lots of it. Radios, too.

And work to make the racing closer and safer, keeping your stars out of the ER and on the track.
Trip
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7/22/2008 4:06pm
Pdub wrote:
There's no need to get personal in this thread, guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Trip, I am positive you have anecdotal evidence to back...
There's no need to get personal in this thread, guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Trip, I am positive you have anecdotal evidence to back up your claim that the new MX tv audience will be primarily NASCAR-loving racists. I don't have the same evidence, and so won't make the same claim. I think there are many populations that watch TV and don't currently watch MX but will if given the chance; the group you name is just one of them.

And I don't think a single poster on this thread has made the claim that more tv coverage will cause "inner city kids" to start buying mx gear, but I get your point. What you're missing is that exposure is what it's all about, and it takes a concerted effort and TIME for that exposure to have any effect at all.

That said, if you google, "Baltimore dirt bikes in the city" you'll find that some "inner city kids" ARE in fact buying mx stuff...!
Hey P, no I don't have one bit of evidence to back my claim. I do know however when I go to a NASCAR race, or NASCAR type race, I can carry on a conversation with other spectators about mx and dirt bikes in general. I go to a lot of baseball games, and cannot say the same for the baseball fan.

Nobody brought up inner city kids other than I, but who is going to be the target audience? Obviously it isn't going to be them, so I would think it would be male ages 18-35, which might be a bit younger than the NASCAR audience, but still a crossover of it. I love mx, but am I going to waste a Saturday in the summer watching it? Doubtful. Now I'm a fan and I'm not wasting a Saturday when I already know the outcome.

Nascar attendance is down, and that is a huge cash flow for TV, notice how many NASCAR shows are on during the week? They have a great product, really good production, awesome TV package. Now if they are starting to slip, just who is going to step up and sponsor a silly mx race TV package? I guess that's what were all going to find out, he has a lot to overcome, and with the economy sucking, it just sounds like a losing battle to me. Maybe try and fix racing before you go looking for a TV deal?
Shenzi
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7/22/2008 4:15pm
JTomasik has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread. Of course change is difficult, of course a 1-moto format is not good for the sport, of course TV is vital.

TV brings more audience, more spectators and series sponsors as well as riders/teams sponsors. TV is an American marketing tool and to grow (survive?) in this market, TV is a must.

The pro series, as well as the industry in general, need new users, newcomers to the sport, be it on road and off road and this can be achieved through a stronger presence on TV.

DC has been consulting and listening to a lot of people in the last 6 months. He has been reading the boards too, to get a better idea of what we want. Of course he is against the 1-moto format but at the same time they need to find the best combo for TV and for the fans at the races, as well as the hardcore ones on the forums.

The idea is to get more people to the races, make Saturday interesting and fun again, motivate the riders to give it all in all races, motivating them and keeping them away from SX-only deals.

The SBK format of "1 moto on Sat and 1 moto on Sundays" is a very good idea. Both races would give championship points, the fans would have more to see over the 2-days and it will make it worth its while driving 700 miles to go watch a National.

I would like to see more WMA races and some ATV Nationals combo'd to that too, like they have it planned for Steel City this year.
Trip
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7/22/2008 4:27pm
Shenzi wrote:
JTomasik has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread. Of course change is difficult, of course a 1-moto format is not good for the...
JTomasik has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread. Of course change is difficult, of course a 1-moto format is not good for the sport, of course TV is vital.

TV brings more audience, more spectators and series sponsors as well as riders/teams sponsors. TV is an American marketing tool and to grow (survive?) in this market, TV is a must.

The pro series, as well as the industry in general, need new users, newcomers to the sport, be it on road and off road and this can be achieved through a stronger presence on TV.

DC has been consulting and listening to a lot of people in the last 6 months. He has been reading the boards too, to get a better idea of what we want. Of course he is against the 1-moto format but at the same time they need to find the best combo for TV and for the fans at the races, as well as the hardcore ones on the forums.

The idea is to get more people to the races, make Saturday interesting and fun again, motivate the riders to give it all in all races, motivating them and keeping them away from SX-only deals.

The SBK format of "1 moto on Sat and 1 moto on Sundays" is a very good idea. Both races would give championship points, the fans would have more to see over the 2-days and it will make it worth its while driving 700 miles to go watch a National.

I would like to see more WMA races and some ATV Nationals combo'd to that too, like they have it planned for Steel City this year.
The SBK format of "1 moto on Sat and 1 moto on Sundays" is a very good idea. Both races would give championship points, the fans would have more to see over the 2-days and it will make it worth its while driving 700 miles to go watch a National.

And just how much is a ticket to the race going be for a Saturday/Sunday race? Now I guess your running qualifiers on Friday? Now instead of just staying home on a Saturday to see a race, I now have to stay home Saturday and Sunday? If your going to make that concession for TV, what do you do about the fan that just drives maybe 60 miles to the race? Are they really going to go to both days? Not likely.
jmar
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7/22/2008 4:44pm
Trip wrote:
Not afraid of change if it makes the experience better for me. Just don't see how one moto, Saturday racing, and live TV on a Saturday...
Not afraid of change if it makes the experience better for me. Just don't see how one moto, Saturday racing, and live TV on a Saturday afternoon makes it any better for me.


When looking at changing, all things need to be looked at. DC living in West Virginia, knows all to well how people of color are treated. Ever wonder why they are no black guys racing NASCAR? I'm sure there are some very capable black guys who can race a car. They just don't really have a chance to do it.

Just where do you think these new fans who will be watching the race on a Saturday afternoon are coming from. Like it or not, the same crowd that watches NASCAR are going to be the ones who watch mx.
Do you really think inner city kids are going all the sudden find a mx race on TV and then they start buying mx gear instead of LeBron and Kobe garb?
I guarantee to you Stewart has sold more fox t-shirts then all of their other riders combined. Thinking a black rider hurts mx popularity is ignorant...
I guarantee to you Stewart has sold more fox t-shirts then all of their other riders combined. Thinking a black rider hurts mx popularity is ignorant. Saturday MX makes perfect sense to me, im willing to bet more people would rather watch a race on sat then sun. I dont agree with one moto helping, but who knows maybe it will. The biggest problem is TV time, and MX not being visually appealing. Having Stewart and RV in the lead by 2 minutes isnt going to draw a crowd and watching MX on tv is boring, there is no getting around that. Unless you know what it takes, its just one guy twisting his wrist a lot harder then the other guys.
James is good for the sport and I agree with everything you said other than giving James the credit for all of the Fox, tees, hats, hoodies and other items that fox sells. That credit goes to a logo that kids like along with the fact the Fox is really going big in the surf industry.
jmar
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7/22/2008 4:46pm
jtomasik wrote:
Trip, fans can contribute more than just buying a bike and riding. Heck, if Stew becomes a "superstar", Nike might sign him and sponsor MX. That...
Trip, fans can contribute more than just buying a bike and riding. Heck, if Stew becomes a "superstar", Nike might sign him and sponsor MX. That money adds strength to the sport.

Yeah, some percentage might actually buy bikes and start riding. Obviously that will help, too.

There are many ways that live TV can help MX.
Not if a black man is winning!
Bullshit.
You're comment is way off base.
motogrady
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7/22/2008 4:49pm
That's essentially what it is now and has been since points were paid based on moto finishes rather than the overall. The substance remains the same.
mxnick wrote:
FTE, you are correct.

Very true, and very wrong. Never did like watering it down.
The Overall used to mean something. You had to do good both times or you got squat.
Now, eh, who cares.

As far as the race thing, hit a NHRA drag event. Plenty of black guys there.
And I for 1 have def seen more AfricanAmerican folk at the races, especially
the Nats. Hats off to the Stewart's for that. Baseball, football, soccer, all benifit
from drawing from a diverse fan base. You just need someone to root for.

All this might be a moot point anyway. All the kids I see around here are on 4wheelers.
A dirt bike is the exception. How you gonna change that?







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