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Belgium is a special country that is why they win.
America is a large country that is why they win.
You're a funny guy ,Peter.
It all started here and spread across the channel to Europe but it can only grow to a certain size in the small countries,it's like trying to contain MX to a state,It's not America's fault that the sport spilled out of California and kept on growing,more tracks,more riders,bigger industry etc,its just the way it is
Football (soccer) is similar,it started here and as it grew into other countries,they equalled or slowly overtook us,now its relatively global our league has a large number of imports,we have guys playing for England that can't get a game for their team now,football is everywhere here but growth can only be limited,the USA has caught up to World class level too now
China,big country,lots of people,and good at what they're into,table tennis,badminton,Gymnastics etc,if they got serious at MX,give them 30 years or more and they'd probably be extremely good at it, same as India but they're into Cricket,not much else really,those 2 countries seem to excel at sports that are relatively cheap to participate in too,not MX and Car Racing etc
As NV825 says the USA live,breathe etc MX and are good at it,nobody's taking anything away from the guys that do it,credit to them,we know how hard guys work
The population argument is lame. Moto is a fringe sport in the country and participation is declining. Tracks are closing, kids are getting priced out of the game and people are just not riding like they used to.
The Canadians being especially good at Hockey isn't a surprise either because obviously, it's a national past time over there that goes beyond the average levels of popularity in other countries. As a result, in that sport at least, they can punch well above their weight (just as England and Belgium once could in MX). Whereas I'm talking about "roughly" equal participation within a sport between populations. And lastly, though I admittedly know sod all about baseball... there are always exceptions to an overall trend.
Now look, I'm not saying America only wins because of greater numbers, that would be unfair and untrue. You do have a great amateur program that, though it once again benefits from population, certainly isn't built on it alone. It's a fantastic set-up that's the envy of the world and team USA (and American MX in general) should rightly be proud of it. Not to mention all the people that contribute to making it work year after year. You also have a very competitive mindset that has its roots in your culture and your approach to all sport in general. There's wanting to win and then there's Americans wanting to win! Again, you deserve credit for that. That's all you alone.
But it would crazy to suggest that population doesn't tip the balance in your favour at all.
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Also it's convenient to make this bet on the home test track of those riders. Where you were last year? Or the year before? I don't think the US is going to win most of the motos, but if there ever was a MXDN where consistency is going to be the key for the trophy, this is it and I think that's what the plan is for team USA. I think this will be a tough MXDN for the US, but that's ok because it makes the event even more exciting. I'm not a fan of the Lommel track... looks like a practice track, but there are a lot of story-lines to follow this year.
My prediction is that both GP fans and AMA fans will both have something to hang their hat on following the race just like every other MXDN.
Their thinking is limited to the population....they cannot think any farther then that.
They cannot think outside of that.
They have zero understanding of the sport in this country.
It comes down to 3 riders not 30 million riders.
3 kids could be born tomorrow in Mexico and within 19 years they could become the next big thing in the sport....If indeed their parents groomed them properly and sent them through all the right programs ect.. And if they had the will,desire & talent.
If the programs aren't available in Mexico they could simply come to America and make use of ours or any other country for that matter if they want it bad enough. It's just like education. If you are living in the jungles of Africa and you want to be a Rocket Scientist get out of the jungles and go somewhere to where you can get an education up to standard. Don't cry because of population or use it as an excuse. That is just silly to me and nothing more then an excuse. The resources are out there and available.
Get off your ass and make it happen.
If tomorrow I decided I wanted to become a Soccer player....
I would be headed to Spain,not hanging out in Florida and making excuses.
LOL this is like something out of a Disney script. Not the real world I'm sorry to say.
Population or size doesn't mean shit.
Which country does best in a given sport to me is based on Participation numbers, access to quality venues and quality competition. Those factors are heavily in the USA favour for MX, NZ/South Africa for rugby, India/Australia for Cricket, Brazil/Argentina for Soccer, Canada for Ice Hockey, England for Darts.
If I was going to write a book on MX excuses,I would go to Europe.
Seems like the best place.
You follow?
Pit Row
It's up to them to get off their asses and do something about it.
Why sit and cry and do nothing?
If I want to be a professional fisherman,I'm going to move near water.
Not live in the middle of the desert....and make excuses that I would kick everyone's ass if I had more water to fish...ect. lol
I have prepared a White-Paper on this subject that should shed some light on all the issues discussed here-in; however, as is the case in all matters that involve ForeIgn Relations & the NATO membership...I am awaIting review & approval from our PR department.
The Document should be a a available in a day or two.
Until then,
Manny
Sorry i have been away so long. I had a (very) long day at work and no acces to the internet
OK... first up i would like to say that i'm not dissing on team USA or any american rider. Ofcourse they win because they work hard for it, because they are fantastic riders etc etc.
But you can't argue with the fact that it is a whole lot easier to put up a team if you can pick between 100 pro riders compared to picking between 5 or 6 riders. That is also why China or India for example do not have good riders. The population is big, yes, but there are not many mx riders there just because the sport is to little in those countrys.
Abot the Belgium being special thing, i ment the soil. Where in the world can you find a track that is hard as a rock, and i you move 30 miles north you are in the deepest sand tracks you will ever find. That is also the reason why all those pro riders over here in Europe move to Belgium. Half of the guys racing the GP series live in Lommel. Why is that ? Because they can practise in deep sand and if they want to practise on a hard packed track you drive for 30 minutes and that's it.
I think you guys know perfectly well that USA has a big advantage because of its size, but you keep beating around the bush. I read something about south africa in the winter olympics lol. Good find :D
If size (or lets call it the number of pro riders you can choose from) don't matter, then why don't you guys take me up on this bet ? I still say that team Europe will destroy team America. Why are you guys so afraid to say that team USA will win against team Europe. You guys are convinced that USA riders are the best in the world. Put your money where your mouth is and take me up on this.
OK.. why do i think team Europe will beat team USA ? Definately not because i think the riders are better, but because the hometown advantage and the special nature of the track. I even think that on almost every (maybe even every single) track in the USA and on most tracks in Europe team USA will win against team Europe. But not in Lommel. There team Europe will win. C'mon guys, it's all in good fun. Give us a fair go for a change. If team Europe wins i will only say that size (meaning the number of riders you can pick from does matter). You won't ever hear me say that euro riders are better.
"lso it's convenient to make this bet on the home test track of those riders. Where you were last year? Or the year before? I don't think the US is going to win most of the motos, but if there ever was a MXDN where consistency is going to be the key for the trophy, this is it and I think that's what the plan is for team USA."
Look above. I think most of the times team USA will win. No arguments there.
But i can't be much fun for you guys. You come with 3 of the best riders in the world to compete against a team that most of the times consist of 2 pro riders and an amateur. Or in the best case of 2 very good riders and 1 rider that is a pro rider, but is not a ream top rider. How is that possible that no other country can field 3 of the best riders in the world ? Because no other country has enough pro riders to choose from. Lot's of countrys don't even have 3 pro riders.
Give it fair go. Europe is smaller compared to the USA. There are less pro riders in Europe so less riders to choose from. But this at least gives European riders a fighting chance. We can pick a team with 3 pro riders, just like the USA can. And we pick them now, BEFORE the event takes place. If we would pick the riders after the event it would not be very fair since we would just pick the best 3 European riders.
It's helped us grow it at a pro level.
It's called marketing. Without that,we would be just like China or Russia when it comes to MX.
It's something that we have built here and the majority of our population knows nothing about...
Any country could do it depending on their marketing at the local levels and getting people involved.
We are not talking a team of 1000 pro racers. We are talking 3 riders.
I would say more people in Belgium know about the sport of Motocross and who Roger Decoster is
then most of the people in America. Population doesn't matter...
As for Europe VS USA.
As I said before......we could give you Europe,Asia,South America,Canada,Africa and all those populations that
would make up far greater population then American pro racers and it is possible that 3 guys from Florida or California would win it. If we have a team of Ferry ,RC,JBS ,they could beat not only Europe in the rest of the world they could have also beat the rest of the Americans. Those 3 guys lived within 50 miles of each other. Ferry in Largo,RC Clearwater,James Haines City. I don't buy the population EXCUSE one bit. There are many of times an all California team could have won and not only beat the World also beat the rest of the USA.
I will take 3 states right now. Washington ,Florida & California and Dungey,JS7 & Baggett could beat the world.
Add up all the top level riders from those states and it isn't many as the rest of the world has.
You want to bet?
I bet Minnesota against Belgium.
Dungey vs any Belgium rider you chose or I bet he beats all 3 and you pay triple.
Belgium has over twice the of population of Minnesota....you should not have a problem finding 3 riders to beat one guy right,based on your own theory? I mean Belgium is a special country with lots of different dirt. Minnesota it snows all the time ect... You get 3 Belgium riders I will just take 1 American.
That wouldn't be a good bet would it?
WHY, because the american fans find it way too conveniant to say Team USA would win because they will never have to prove the point and thats exactly the way they like it.
No, that would be a bad bet. I will explain to you why.
It is possible to have 1 good rider for any country in the world. The problem is to find 3 top riders. Why don't you pick 3 riders from Minnesota to race against 3 riders from belgium ? Simple... there are not enough pro riders in Minnesota. That's it.
Same goes for the olympic games. Belgium can have 1 very good runner. We can win a medal in the 100 m sprint for example. Every country in the world can. But to find 4 so you can win the 4*100 m relay is something else. Belgium can't ever win the gold medal there just because there are not enough profesionnal athletes.
Why do all those relay events (in athlectics, in swimming,.. ) won by big countrys. Because the pool they can choose from is bigger. It's a lot easier to find 4 pro athletes.
Ernesto Fonseca for instance was a fantastic rider. But if Costa Rica were to enter the mxdn, how many times would Ernesto have won ? He is good enough to win the mxdn, but i doubt if his teammates would be good enough.
And about the ISDE result... i think enduro just is not popular enough in the USA. I don't think team USA would win the des nations if one of the 3 bikes had to be a sidecar, just because sidecar motocross is not po^pular in the USA. In Holland and in Belgium this form of mx is very popular.
What if the MXopen category would be swapped with a sidecar category ? Would team USA still win ? I doubt it, just because nobody in the entire USA does sidecarcar mx. You would have 2 bad results and bye bye Chamberlain trophy. That is exactly what our problem is. We only have 2 pro riders. The 3rd rider often is an amateur, or is injured. But we have to field that rider just because we do not have another pro rider.
Things are what you make them,regardless of population.
There could be 3 guys born there tomorrow and if they had the will & desire that Dungey had they could become great.
Then what?
And even with Europe VS USA.
If Europe was to win in Lommel , it is not due to Europe's size or Population.
It would be because of their experience at sand riding and racing there.
Herlings,Marc,Tony & company are all great sand riders.....it doesn't matter about their populations or Europe's population.
And if USA does lose ,maybe we should have spent more time racing in the sand.
Not worrying about "population".
And as for Ernie,he came here and raced our youth programs (a major part to America's MX Success).
If many of his Country man would have followed,they might have a had a great team.
Where there is will there is a way.
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