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3/21/2007
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US
Edited Date/Time
10/19/2012 8:48am
I had pretty much gotten over the whole sound deal for a number of reasons but I was also pretty much over the sport. I had told DC I was pretty much over the whole sound deal and wasn't going to press him for information on MX Sports sound testing policies for their professional and Lorettta Lynn programs as I had in the past. The bikes got quieter in general and that was good enough for me.
I then went to Matterley Basin and talked to pipe manufacturers about the challenges of building a US spec pipe and a rest of the world pipe. My diminished interest in sound had the 112 db standard for the GPs in 2013 catching me pretty much out of the blue.. Sine I"ve been dwelling on what 112 db will sound like in the US in 2014. Supercross will be noticeably quieter and so could the outdoors with this new level.
The AMA purposely follows the FIM's new standards by one year to let the FIM test drive the new sound levels and testing methodology before enacting a new policy like 2 M Max or 2 M Max at 112db.. This lag makes sense on several levels but from a pipe manufacturer's perspective as well as race team owner like Mitch Payton with efforts on both sides of the pond there is something to be said for having global standards. Oh well one more season and it will be 112db 2 M Max on both sides but if I was a pipe company or race team I'd be lobbying the AMA to consider adopting the next FIM sound level drop the same year as the GPs do. It would help the consumer I believe since the pipe companies wouldn't have to make two different types of products.
The FIM is all about sound levels as they see a direct correlation between sound and riding area availability so I'm sure 112 db is not the final bottom number.
I then went to Matterley Basin and talked to pipe manufacturers about the challenges of building a US spec pipe and a rest of the world pipe. My diminished interest in sound had the 112 db standard for the GPs in 2013 catching me pretty much out of the blue.. Sine I"ve been dwelling on what 112 db will sound like in the US in 2014. Supercross will be noticeably quieter and so could the outdoors with this new level.
The AMA purposely follows the FIM's new standards by one year to let the FIM test drive the new sound levels and testing methodology before enacting a new policy like 2 M Max or 2 M Max at 112db.. This lag makes sense on several levels but from a pipe manufacturer's perspective as well as race team owner like Mitch Payton with efforts on both sides of the pond there is something to be said for having global standards. Oh well one more season and it will be 112db 2 M Max on both sides but if I was a pipe company or race team I'd be lobbying the AMA to consider adopting the next FIM sound level drop the same year as the GPs do. It would help the consumer I believe since the pipe companies wouldn't have to make two different types of products.
The FIM is all about sound levels as they see a direct correlation between sound and riding area availability so I'm sure 112 db is not the final bottom number.
It's the weekend warriors that neglect repacking their shit routinely that ruin it for everyone else. Pro racing should be left the fuck alone.
i agree though..
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tobz your wish comment actually does not reflect any of my past present or future vacuum cleaner desires. Your weekend warrior comment is pretty heads up. First time I've read anyone acknowledge there is some down side to our noise foot print outside of professional race tracks and stadiums.
What have you seen in your area with loud weekend warriors?
Pro racing should be left the hell alone, it's a professional sport with the professionals allowed to run the most performance enhanced machines they can.
I get that noise is part of the excitement, but they don't have to be so loud that you can't have any kind of a conversation with your seatmates, or that when used at a local track they cause conflicts with the neighbors (who are usually looking for any reason to try and get them closed down anyway).
I'm perfectly fine with quieter bikes. I had a set of custom earplugs molded up last year, and used them throughout 2012. Best thing I ever did.
One MXA editor told me, "I couldn't wear those. I wouldn't be able to hear a bike coming." I told him, "If I didn't wear them, in a couple years I wouldn't be able to hear them coming." (Obviously because of hearing loss.) He got my point.
The 450 aren't horrible, but before I had the plugs made up, I felt like the 250s were going to make my ears bleed.
I heard California passed a law making it illegal to run anything but an oem,
or "approved" pipe(s), on street bikes also.
England is doing the same thing, even including the old bikes.
(Where one finds a set of mufflers for a '54 Vincent I'll never know,
heck, look for a set of Honda 750 oem pipes for that matter).
Limiting sound, and thereby power, is no reason to get upset. We have displacement limitations too, and that limits power! We have a minimum weight rule, and that limits optimal performance. In the US there is a production rule (not always well enforced but that's another story). The point is that there are a number of ways in which rules limit performance and it's been that way for a long time. To throw your hands up in despair over noise restrictions is silly.
My loss is too awful bad but I'm starting to say huh a lot. I'm I nurse now and deal with people that are HOH(hard of hearing) all the time and I can see me in them in like 20 years. Not a pleasant idea.
2 M Max could be improved by having the bike be put into either first or third gear with clutch in then revved IMHO.
What's the difference between 94 db and 115db?
Two questions please:
1) Where did you buy them?
2) How much?
My ears unfortunately got much worse this year and I'm afraid it was the pressure on my right ear from a flight this year made my already significant nerve damagenmore problematic in my right ear. So much so I am wearing a musicians ear plug in my right year all the time to prevent the sudden loud noises that full our normal day to day to leave me with a bad earache for 20 to 30 minutes a day each time a door slams, a plate is banged with a fork, etc. This is really a drag where my ear and hearing is at today as 2012 winds to a close.
Pit Row
1. Not one high level team is racing with the production muffler that most all the privateers that get so called "sponsored" are supplied. The production aftermarket exhaust system that you can buy is nothing like what your heroes are racing with.
2. From a manufacturing and reliability standpoint a muffler that actually meets the 2M Max standard is heavily restricted and therefore holds more heat and is really tough on packing. The heat also shortens the life span of the muffler.
3. Price- a 2M Max designed muffler costs $20-$30 more to manufacture IMHO. That translates to about a $100 increase in the retail price.
4. Engine reliability- The more restrictive mufflers are creating higher temperatures for components like pistons and valves as well as contribute to detonation.
Here are my numbered responses to your numbered points:
1) Roger that RE: race teams don't use production mufflers. From my window into the world of aftermarket exhaust manufacturing some of these companies use their race team support as the ultimate R and D opportunity. Accordingly the consumer will never be able to buy right away what is being tested by a pipe company/race team but today's R&D projects are tomorrow production solutions.
2) Engines are air pumps and if you reduce the air flow on exit there will be a thermal increase...it's physics but there are things one can do via the motor to accommodate a specific or dual sound limit tests given the EFI and wealth of electronic available. Chad Sanner at Eleven10mods and Frenchy working together built a KILLER 91 db bike The Stealth Pro three years ago and I'd love to see what they can do today with a non carbureted bike. Due to the cam timing wizardry that abounded during the Stealth Pro project this helped reduce the exhaust temperatures in the Stealth Pro but point well taken.
3) Only people that have to comply with 115 db 2 M Max are professionals in the US and only if they race SX. Amateur racers are still being tested at the static 94 db test. and 115 db 2 M Max test is voluntary compliance at the MX Sports Nationals. The AMA congress worked with the OEMs five years ago so that production bikes meet 94 db as of 2012. On a related front Loretta Lynns is 94 db which is the AMA limit for amateur MX. This rule allows people who race the production class to pass sound.
To date I'm not really sure how many consumers have actually had to purchase anyone's 2 M Max compliant muffler. I know there's a lot of teams that get pipes from their sponsors who provide freshly packed mufflers so the teams don't even see that side of it.
If 2 M Max has affected anyone it is the grass roots of the sport the 250F guys and the 450 guys. I know the pipe companies have reps at the track as well have worked with teams and their support riders so they don't show up at A1 failing sound. I know the AMA and FIM folks....they are not out there to fail anyone...they've been doing it long enough that they know what these guys are trying to sneak past them. 2 M Max has changed the game but it's still a game.
4) I think this point speaks to the disadvantages four strokes bring to our sport more so than it does anything sound related. Two strokes are so much easier to maintain, no valves to adjust, you can do a top end job during a sleep eating mission, the list just goes on. Since we're talking four strokes here my response to everyone is to save your spare change and either start running hi test (actually running half regular/half high test is better than all hi test) fuel or race fuel. While you're at it don't forget to stay on top of your valves........or start riding a two stroke again and experience what revving a bike out feels like instead of lugging it around the track in second or third gear.
Four stokes are like kissing your cousin.....two strokes are like getting the tongue from the sexy UPS or Fed Ex female persuasion driver......would have been quicker to say chick but I'm a sensitive guy.
Michael was in a tough spot at Matterley Basin. Basically coming off the couch to go race with the MX2 elite. The Michael Leib I met was the intensely focused,, concentrating on doing things the right way, the healthy way . He was frustrated but knew the situation he was in and dealt with it like the professional he is. Color me uber impressed.
I don't know where Michael's racing career will take him but I do know if he stays the same centered, polite and courteous person he is now there'e nothing this young man can't do off the track either.
I can only imagine what it must be like to be a young man traveling the world racing motocross...........
As point of reference it is the FIM that is driving the lower sound limits buss not the AMA. The FIM is a global organization not dedicated to the rights of those who don't want to wear helmets and the FIM also does not want to be the Motorcycle Autoclub
Both the AMA/FIM put on a 2 M Max Primer back in 2010 during the week in between Anaheim races to give the teams ample time to prepare a 2 M Max solution.
From my experience the last few years the usual people who are having sound issues are the motor builders that still think our sport is a peak HP game......since it's not. They build these great dyno motors with all this power but let's put a rider on there to see how tractable and useable all that tire smoking chain pulling monster power is.
Lest we not forget to finish first first you have to finish. If these super motors aren't making it across the finish line then you have more problems than sound related.
Other motorsports don't seem to try and impose such an limit on their top level of their respective sports. Drag racing, car racing, the sound is apart of it. There's nothing wrong with wearing earmuffs if your ears are sensitive.
Exactly what is lowering the db level at pro level going to achieve?
Speaking of sound Michael, Zach's and Arnould's Monster Yamahas sounded extremely healthy.
example: Note that Pro Circuit or FMF have tooled up and made a new silencer body in the last few years to help them meet sound levels. I am going to assume they did this as using the old tooling/style they would have have a power loss to meet such rules. Now that they have this new investment/design they will use to for production exhausts systems and the end customer has a exhaust that is not as loud as generations before.
Trust me when I say that the new sound rules have not hurt/slowed the teams at the front nor has it made a race boring. Did you watch the lites class this year? The top 10 teams all know what they are doing and have read the rules very carefully! The AMA is watching and I would not be surprised to see a small revision in how they do the sound test in 2013. What I find rather funny is that in Europe (teams have been using 2 meter max test since 2010) the teams are not as "creative" as there American brothers when it comes to sound testing.
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