Posts
6761
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm, SE
Edited Date/Time
6/7/2012 2:06pm
I say the odds are getting lower each day. These damn smokers wont disappear, in the beginning I felt many of us were a bit nostalgic, but then these local A-riders (at least what I saw last year in New England), and all these restoring projects, the "many" series in Europe (a wast majority of the bikes are KTMs) and the general attitude is really favoring the old but simplistic concept.
We also have a company that seems to prospers some by building conversion kits for old YZ (VAN DE LAAR RACING in Holland) to transform them to newer looks, and UFO now build a plastic kit that is trying to do the same as well.
AJ and his AF-stuff seems to be doing pretty well.
American market has now learn to know TM (I suggest because of their smoker)
MXA doing a lot of two stroke stuff.
Cone pipes pop up every third week or so.
I'm not angry at the Japs, I think the scene works pretty well with KTM taking over that segment, and I don't know if it's possible to make an profit out of those preferring premix, but the feeling I had they will eventually die has change to they are here to stay, maybe they will take over again.
This hobby is build much on emotions, what's "cool" etc. No one seems to be able to make a 250F as cool as a MUGEN CR125 or even a SX250 (there's a SXS250, just so you know) meanwhile I feel, there's no way a smoker is better for lap times.
BUT!!! The forces involved in this sport are based on rather primitive emotions, as in bragging, cool gadgets for braggin, looks, sound and smell. This knowledge that my CRF is better for laptimes, or safety is an emotional liability. I WANT the smokers to be better. That's the force and I see future business here.
Seriously people, we put black rims on our bikes. It's so stupid, but go figure!
And, last, most importantly, I recently bough an RM125!
We also have a company that seems to prospers some by building conversion kits for old YZ (VAN DE LAAR RACING in Holland) to transform them to newer looks, and UFO now build a plastic kit that is trying to do the same as well.
AJ and his AF-stuff seems to be doing pretty well.
American market has now learn to know TM (I suggest because of their smoker)
MXA doing a lot of two stroke stuff.
Cone pipes pop up every third week or so.
I'm not angry at the Japs, I think the scene works pretty well with KTM taking over that segment, and I don't know if it's possible to make an profit out of those preferring premix, but the feeling I had they will eventually die has change to they are here to stay, maybe they will take over again.
This hobby is build much on emotions, what's "cool" etc. No one seems to be able to make a 250F as cool as a MUGEN CR125 or even a SX250 (there's a SXS250, just so you know) meanwhile I feel, there's no way a smoker is better for lap times.
BUT!!! The forces involved in this sport are based on rather primitive emotions, as in bragging, cool gadgets for braggin, looks, sound and smell. This knowledge that my CRF is better for laptimes, or safety is an emotional liability. I WANT the smokers to be better. That's the force and I see future business here.
Seriously people, we put black rims on our bikes. It's so stupid, but go figure!
And, last, most importantly, I recently bough an RM125!
I really want to buy and slightly older RM or YZ 250 at the moment, just trying to find one from about 07 onwards that is pretty much not running, want a bit of a project bike to build myself in my spare time
Though with a house renovation about to start will hold off for six months, shed is about to be full of all the house furnishings!
Ill keep a four stroke, I don't care what anyone says, love riding my 250F, and had a blast on my last 450.
All bikes ROCK!
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
If I had the time and money to ride I would be back on a smoker. Congrats on the RM125!!
Something has to give with the new EFI 2-Strokes coming online. Probably just go that route and the prices will stay high due to all the electronics and complexity.
Seems most here want to go backwards(?) to less complex machinery to help lower costs and make it easier for the average or occassional rider/racer to stay involved.
The EFI/smoker thing seems a bit wrong for me, as you say, I think we crave for less compexity and carb has newer been an issue for me despite owning a CRF250 07 and the CR250 02 which are both know for having carb issues.
I would embrace some traction device though, if you could build a cheap thing that lead to some pulsatile rotation of the rear wheel? Or one can just by a 125, oh wait?
Traction control should be a doable option but then you are going down the path of added complexity and increased costs my friend.
Now that I think about it, the old enduros (KDX200, IT's and PE's) and newer KTM's are more like a fourstroke than two-stroke MX'er.......more tractable and manageable power delivery at the sacrifice of hard hitting / snappy power delivery? Don't a lot of folks like the KTM 300 two-stroke motor? Maybe detune a modern 250 two stroke by adding more crankshaft inertia and pipe silencer combo to make yield a more torquey delivery while keeping the HP up? Isn't tractability one of the big advantages of the four stroke? Do most of us need the hard hitting powerband of a two stroke MX'er or the tractability of a two stroke enduro/off-road?
I think you are spot with the last paragraph there. That's good choice I think for many feeling this way about traction and the hard hit.
For the B and C rider in particular, the easy 250F makes any squid, "a rider". If memory serves me right, during the smoker era, it was pretty easy to track the first time rider from the rest, and the A-riders really stood out as well. Today because of the superiority of the four-strokes as in ride-ability where second gear, will do fine for a year, it's really harder to single out the shades of gray or even the black from white...
This means for me that I want two bikes. Like the smoker is the mistress one are allowed to have, but will not make into a wife any time soon...
Pit Row
If you go by supply and demand on "Blocket" the turn back has already started.
Hopefully I have a really cool machine of my own to show off after this weekend. A twostroke of course!
As for the bikes on the track, the 250F is a blast. Love the revs. But a nice 125 or 144 is hard to beat for the fun factor and that is what more and more people are looking for in a bike. I have little to no desire to spend an entire day at a motocross track waiting through 30 motos to get a total of 28 minutes of track time including practice. Our vintage/vet group here in Texas has a pretty good program going though and the fun factor is high. Good times to be had there.
If KTM were serious about keeping them around, they would make them competitive use direct inject, but that would increase price, weight, complexity, all the things people are saying that make 2 strokes great. So they are stuck in time, and it is only a matter of time before they go away. The only reason they are lower priced now is because they are stuck not moving forward. In reality it takes about the same amount of money to make a 4 stroke than a 2 stroke. You think there is a real price difference in a 250f and 450f?
So congrats on your bike purchase. I still have a 2 stroke but it probably won't see any more track time, only trails but as long as it is around it will remind me where I came from, great bike for the time but 4 strokes are superior handing and don't flip out and have engine braking, all the things I like.
The chances of the Japanese moving backwards and producing a new 2 stroke.? Time to move on people.
Please apologize at once to Asia.
* I've been hearing about a fuel injected 2-stroke KTM for about 10 years and I have yet to see one. Meanwhile, KTM pumped out an electric bike. This has me scratching my head a bit. It takes longer to develop a FI smoker than an e-bike?
* Lots of people are rediscovering two-strokes but they are rediscovering used ones. They need to rediscover their local Yamaha or KTM dealer and buy a new smoker. That's the only message ($$$) the OEMs hear. Honda's market research team is not on Vital.
* In my thinking, the success of a product these days is largely dependent on marketing. Motocross is a form of competition, and factory involvement in racing is a form of marketing. How would the japanese market a new line of 2-stroke motocrossers? I see a disconnect there. Back in the day, Honda marketted the XR400 as a play bike (easy to ride, equipped with lights, spark arrestor, tool bag, etc) but the same approach would not work for a 2-stroke. What would be the slogan for a new line of smokers?
Thoughts?
Post a reply to: Odds for Japan spitting out new smoker...