who is the favourite in 250 nationals?

mx 219
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5/9/2012 9:13am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2012 9:16am
Speed: Roczen, Barcia, Baggett (late in motos)

Endurance: Baggett, Tomac

Consistancy: Wilson

Contenders: Musquin

Right now there are so many unknowns...Barcia is not great outdoors (look at his stats), Musquin can do well if he doesnt get injured, Wilson may not race the whole season if his shoulder is bothering him, Baggett was inconsistent last year, Roczen's first year

Based on what I know right now I pick:

1. Tomac (he has improved so much and looks great on the bike)
2. Baggett (if he fixes inconsistancy he is the man to beat)
3. Roczen (first go around)
4. Musquin (2x world champ, could surprise some people, may be top 3 each week)
5. Barcia (this will be his fourth year outdoors, but he just has not shined much outdoors on a 250)

* I dont think Wilson will end up racing the whole season
mx 219
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5/9/2012 9:15am
bartoner wrote:
Hot Sauce....
I will be surprised if he gets on the podium once...and I do realize he won a championship before
NoGo
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5/9/2012 9:22am
pilotdude wrote:
Dude, I'm not quite sure where you're headed with the all this. Tomac and Barcia didn't just win their championships, they crushed their competition. Just crushed...
Dude, I'm not quite sure where you're headed with the all this. Tomac and Barcia didn't just win their championships, they crushed their competition. Just crushed them. That builds huge confidence. They are fitter and stronger this year by far. Both are healthy with no injuries. Barcia gave Dungey fits at Unadilla and then WON Southwick during a hurricane, both rides coming in the last part of the season.

At some point, all the superstars rose up and showed they had moved up to a new level. Reed, Carmichael, Stewart, Windham, Villopoto, Dungey, etc. Tomac and Barcia showed that this supercross season.

As far as Barcia melting down, that is a product of him being both young and filled with an overwhelming desire to win, which by the way, many riders lack.

Favorites in the 250 class this year?

1. Barcia/Tomac--Both dominated in SX, both uninjured, both fit, both working with strong mentors.

2. Roczen--Great speed but injury rumors make me pause.

3. Musquin--Great speed also, could be his breakout year outdoors.

4. Wilson--Injured shoulder is a major cause for concern.

5. Baggett--3 Seconds a lap faster than anyone/12th place for no reason doesn't win championships.
barcia melting down is a show of immaturity which seems to have only gotten worse rather than better. never saw do that in past seasons. and yeah he did great at unadilla and southwick but after being pulled from his initial class. so wheres the explanation for his shitty results? cant blame on a wrist or illness when he won a championship that way and a 450 moto.

where im going with this is, if they(barcia and tomac) have raced this class for years now never missing a moto and weren't contenders already then I don't see that changing when all the same competition is still there.

the way you stacked up and explained your favorites doesn't make much sense either. everyone says baggett was super inconsistent last year yet he finished the championship in 3rd with a 100point gap on 4th and his worst overall was 9th and finished only 3 overall outside of the top 5.

barcia finished 3 overalls outside of the top 10 and another 3 outside of the top 5. tomac had 3 overalls outside the top 10 other than that he was always in the top 5 overall but wasn't finishing at the top.

wilson shoulder doesn't seem to be that big of a deal anymore and hes way smoother outdoors than indoors.
baggett will be coming into his 2nd full season, last year was his first. he will only be stronger.
roczen/musquin are a question mark for me because i havent seen much from them outdoors.
barcia/tomac dominated sx but as i will continue saying sx is not mx. and indoor results mean nothing when it comes to the summer.

tickle,weimer, jlaw-regional titles no national titles. pourcel- 2 time regional 0-time national.
RealityZ
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5/9/2012 9:43am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2012 9:44am
How many times you gonna mention the Barcia meltdown. You ever had a lapper clean you out while leading a SX? You seem like the immature one. You have a great life Woohoo You just dont get it!

Kroc, Barcia, Tomaz

The Shop

NoGo
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5/9/2012 9:53am
RealityZ wrote:
How many times you gonna mention the Barcia meltdown. You ever had a lapper clean you out while leading a SX? You seem like the immature...
How many times you gonna mention the Barcia meltdown. You ever had a lapper clean you out while leading a SX? You seem like the immature one. You have a great life Woohoo You just dont get it!

Kroc, Barcia, Tomaz
he didnt just meltdown at houston there was bercy too. it should be brought up when people are saying hes so much more mature this year since working with stanton. yet since working with stanton hes had 2 meltdown in 6 months.
Jay LINY
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5/9/2012 10:09am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2012 10:23am
My first reaction would be to say Roczen but after thinking about it for a minute Id have to go with Musquin,he was doing great last year till Barcia wrecklessly took him out and broke his wrist at freestone.
5/9/2012 10:10am
machine wrote:
I like Roczen. but he can't finish a supercross sprint race without fading, due to an old arm injury or whatever it is, how do you...
I like Roczen. but he can't finish a supercross sprint race without fading, due to an old arm injury or whatever it is, how do you think he is going to be able to sprint for 30+2 X2 without dropping anchor.
This is exactly my concern. I want to see him do well but already he's arguably not as strong as he was in 2011.
FreshTopEnd
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5/9/2012 10:18am
Jay LINY wrote:
My first reaction would be to say Roczen but after thinking about it for a minute Id have to go with Musquin,he was doing great last...
My first reaction would be to say Roczen but after thinking about it for a minute Id have to go with Musquin,he was doing great last year till Barcia wrecklessly took him out and broke his wrist at freestone.
What was reckless about that crash that ended up breaking Musquin's thumb?

If you're going by some on the ridiculous nonsense some people call logic here, you have to go with Roczen, Musquin or Wilson. They are the only guys who have proven they can finish a full outdoor season out leading the points.
Huckster
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5/9/2012 10:19am
Marvin Musquin, Red Bull KTM, 6th in Lites West main, 5th in East/West Shootout



Racer X: So this is your first Las Vegas East/West Shootout. How did it treat you?
Marvin Musquin: It was a really tough race. The track was really rough, and it got really dry and hard packed. That was kind of difficult. I rode well during the Shootout with Roczen—he was riding really good. We finished out of the podium, but it was still a really good race, especially after some bad news this morning. I had an X-ray at the Asterisk truck and there is a little crack on my hand—the one that I broke last year at Freestone. I don’t know what I’m going to do for the outdoors. I want to ride, but I also need to get better.


Was that from last weekend?
Yeah, I crashed during the heat race with [Martin] Davalos. I had a small crash, actually, but it hurt my hand. I raced the main event right after. It hurt a little bit, but during the week I couldn’t ride outdoors. I tried to ride and it wasn’t possible. I had an X-ray and it didn’t show anything, so I was kind of surprised this morning when they said it was cracked. That sucks, you know, but I’ll get ready for outdoors.
FreshTopEnd
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5/9/2012 10:22am
RealityZ wrote:
How many times you gonna mention the Barcia meltdown. You ever had a lapper clean you out while leading a SX? You seem like the immature...
How many times you gonna mention the Barcia meltdown. You ever had a lapper clean you out while leading a SX? You seem like the immature one. You have a great life Woohoo You just dont get it!

Kroc, Barcia, Tomaz
NoGo wrote:
he didnt just meltdown at houston there was bercy too. it should be brought up when people are saying hes so much more mature this year...
he didnt just meltdown at houston there was bercy too. it should be brought up when people are saying hes so much more mature this year since working with stanton. yet since working with stanton hes had 2 meltdown in 6 months.
Well, you've got Baggett's meltdown at Pala and the fact that he hasn't been the rider he was at Red Bud since Unadilla, so they're almost even.
FroDiddy
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5/9/2012 10:25am
It's got to be Roczen. Raw speed we haven't seen the likes of since Stewart.

I'll be pulling for Hunter Hewitt on the Rockstar Suzuki. I see tons of potential in that kid.
NoGo
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5/9/2012 10:31am
Well, you've got Baggett's meltdown at Pala and the fact that he hasn't been the rider he was at Red Bud since Unadilla, so they're almost...
Well, you've got Baggett's meltdown at Pala and the fact that he hasn't been the rider he was at Red Bud since Unadilla, so they're almost even.
yeah he did have a meltdown at pala he also got a 2nd there too. and you didnt see him crying his eyes out because of making the wrong choices through lapped traffic. nevertheless theyve both had meltdowns barcias worse than baggetts. baggett has contended for outdoors moto, overall, and title wins in only one full season. barcia has not and hes had 3 full seasons.

saying baggett hasnt been the same since unadilla because he spent 2 races off thee podium is a stretch. he has 4 overall finishes off the podium the rest he was between 1-3.
FreshTopEnd
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5/9/2012 10:55am
What did we see him crying his eyes out about then? Mitch kicking his ass for talking shit about Wilson on the podium?

Sorry, if you think think the Baggett at Hangtown or Red Bud was the same rider by Pala, your appreciation of the guy's skills has blinded you to the overall package thus far. Wilson had his foot on Baggett's throat by Pala.

You're all about this question being answered by what a guy's proven outdoors, and Baggett's proven he can kill it one week and drag an anchor the next, melt down, blow up in the heat, and lose his edge by the end of 24 rounds. So if you want to have any credibility beyond being a Baggett fanboy, use the same criteria of harsh shit talking a rider down for him that you seem relish when discussing other guys. It's dumb or dishonest to pretend to fairly evaluate riders by focusing on one guy's positives and ignoring his negatives when all you do is tear down the other guys. Jeez, it's like you take anyone crediting another rider as an intended insult to Baggett.

If Baggett is going to have the sack to do what he hasn't done in the past, it's not beyond the realm of reason for someone to give Tomac or Barcia or anyone else a little credit as contenders.


Baggett's clearly going to be highly motivated going into the season after last year and this supercross. Who the hell knows going into the season how it's going to turn out in the end? My gut is that he and Tomac are going to be the guys going to the front at Hangtown. Who knows after that once we learn what happens at Hangtown.
jeffro503
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5/9/2012 11:07am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2012 11:08am
Just reading through the replies here in this thread and I think the same way.......

I think the two strongest players for the entire season are going to be Roczen and Tomac. But I see Barcia , Musquin , Bagget and p[probably Blake Wharton doing well outdoors to.

I think with RD5 and Stewart in the 450's....we may see some good racing.....but the GREAT racing is going to be happening in the 250 class!

BTW....I didn't mention Wilson because I'm not even sure he'll be at Hangtown. And if he is.....how will that shoulder last a full 24 motos?
NoGo
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5/9/2012 11:16am
What did we see him crying his eyes out about then? Mitch kicking his ass for talking shit about Wilson on the podium? Sorry, if you...
What did we see him crying his eyes out about then? Mitch kicking his ass for talking shit about Wilson on the podium?

Sorry, if you think think the Baggett at Hangtown or Red Bud was the same rider by Pala, your appreciation of the guy's skills has blinded you to the overall package thus far. Wilson had his foot on Baggett's throat by Pala.

You're all about this question being answered by what a guy's proven outdoors, and Baggett's proven he can kill it one week and drag an anchor the next, melt down, blow up in the heat, and lose his edge by the end of 24 rounds. So if you want to have any credibility beyond being a Baggett fanboy, use the same criteria of harsh shit talking a rider down for him that you seem relish when discussing other guys. It's dumb or dishonest to pretend to fairly evaluate riders by focusing on one guy's positives and ignoring his negatives when all you do is tear down the other guys. Jeez, it's like you take anyone crediting another rider as an intended insult to Baggett.

If Baggett is going to have the sack to do what he hasn't done in the past, it's not beyond the realm of reason for someone to give Tomac or Barcia or anyone else a little credit as contenders.


Baggett's clearly going to be highly motivated going into the season after last year and this supercross. Who the hell knows going into the season how it's going to turn out in the end? My gut is that he and Tomac are going to be the guys going to the front at Hangtown. Who knows after that once we learn what happens at Hangtown.
when was he crying at all at pala? did i miss something? becuase all i saw was the blow out right after moto 1.

i can recognize his faults. but other people cant recognize barcia and tomacs faults so i bring them up.
when baggett had a bad day last year they were pretty bad a 9th and a 7th overall at freestone and budds creek. but when he was on there was no doubting him. last year was his first full season. this year, baring any injury, will be his second. supercross was shit for him and he was way off pace and im sure he knew that.

i dont see barcia as a contender in any way. tomac i can see as a possible contender, but still he went from such a great pro debut to nothing great since then.

you saying "If Baggett is going to have the sack to do what he hasn't done in the past, it's not beyond the realm of reason for someone to give Tomac or Barcia or anyone else a little credit as contenders. " doesn't make a lot of sense. baggett would be doing something hes already done or more. barcia and tomac would be doing something theyve never came close to doing.
powDIRT
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5/9/2012 12:58pm
NoGo wrote:
I don't know what races your talking about where he nearly won on a 250. He got quite a few holeshots then crashed which is a...
I don't know what races your talking about where he nearly won on a 250. He got quite a few holeshots then crashed which is a result of his own mistakes. Even without the crashes he still gets ran down by the end of the motos and he doesn't seem to be able to move through the pack in either mx or sx. As far as working for Stanton goes hes had 2 public breakdowns since working with him.
jndmx wrote:
Dude WTF is your issue with Justin?
You never miss the chance to shit hammer the guy.

Did he fuck your girlfriend or something?
NoGo just seems to absolutely hate Barcia... He doesn't even bring up the fact that the kid battled through a busted wrist on his throttle hand to win the 2011 250ESX title, basically sacrificing his health for the Outdoors season. Add into the fact that Mike Larocco said he was racing with mono.

You can't go by the stats either. He missed eight 250 motos because he was riding a 450.

The kid is going to be one of the contenders this year. Healthy and confident is a dangerous combination.
NoGo
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5/9/2012 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2012 1:05pm
powDIRT wrote:
NoGo just seems to absolutely hate Barcia... He doesn't even bring up the fact that the kid battled through a busted wrist on his throttle hand...
NoGo just seems to absolutely hate Barcia... He doesn't even bring up the fact that the kid battled through a busted wrist on his throttle hand to win the 2011 250ESX title, basically sacrificing his health for the Outdoors season. Add into the fact that Mike Larocco said he was racing with mono.

You can't go by the stats either. He missed eight 250 motos because he was riding a 450.

The kid is going to be one of the contenders this year. Healthy and confident is a dangerous combination.
i have brought it up . why don't you READ what i write. i did go by stats and removed his 450 races. he had an apparent broken wrist and mono but he can win a title and perform completely fine on a 450. but he cant do anything on a 250? not even in 2010.

if i hated the guy i'd say he sucks in general. ive never said that. i have pointed out facts visible to everyone who doesn't have their view clouded by being from the northeast and thus being a barcia fan.

he has not performed on a 250 outdoors ever. that is a proven fact with 3 full seasons to back it up.
Huckster
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5/9/2012 1:57pm
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed"

he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only 4 guys going to the line in that class in '12 that has won an Overall outdoors.

Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season and then finished 3rd overall in his sophmore year.
NoGo
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5/9/2012 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2012 2:08pm
Huckster wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed" he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only...
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed"

he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only 4 guys going to the line in that class in '12 that has won an Overall outdoors.

Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season and then finished 3rd overall in his sophmore year.
i mean he has not performed. people said he was going to win outdoor titles or at least contend for them and he's won one overall in 3 full seasons where he went to the line for every moto.

baggett has had one full season and he produced 5 overall wins.
Sherwood
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5/9/2012 2:05pm
Huckster wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed" he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only...
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed"

he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only 4 guys going to the line in that class in '12 that has won an Overall outdoors.

Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season and then finished 3rd overall in his sophmore year.
NoGo wrote:
i mean he has not performed. people said he was going to win outdoor titles or at least contend for them and he's won one overall...
i mean he has not performed. people said he was going to win outdoor titles or at least contend for them and he's won one overall in 3 full seasons where he went to the line for every moto.

baggett has had one full season and he produced 5 overall wins.
Why do you dislike Barcia so much?
NoGo
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5/9/2012 2:08pm
Sherwood wrote:
Why do you dislike Barcia so much?
why does me pointing out his downfalls in outdoors turn into me disliking him?
mohammed
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5/9/2012 2:10pm
No disrespect to the other lites rider but it roczen championship to loose. Hes in another level.
Huckster
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5/9/2012 2:12pm
Huckster wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed" he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only...
What exactly do you mean by "has not performed"

he finished top 5 in the lites class in 09 and 10 and is one of only 4 guys going to the line in that class in '12 that has won an Overall outdoors.

Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season and then finished 3rd overall in his sophmore year.
NoGo wrote:
i mean he has not performed. people said he was going to win outdoor titles or at least contend for them and he's won one overall...
i mean he has not performed. people said he was going to win outdoor titles or at least contend for them and he's won one overall in 3 full seasons where he went to the line for every moto.

baggett has had one full season and he produced 5 overall wins.
Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season. You don't count that? He hasnt won a title in 2 professional years of racing the 250 class.....How many guys have won overalls in the last 3 years? How many guys going to the line in '12 have won an overall outdoors? By your logic, every rider in the RC era that raced against him must have not performed because they didnt win an overall( how many O/A did Windham have in that era?) Barcia's rookie season Dungey won the title and then in '10 Canard won it. Seems to me he lost to some pretty good riders. there were only 2 guys who finished ahead of him that had not won a national title or GP championship in both of those years. You have pretty tough standards that if implemented make a lot of really good riders look like they have "not performed"

Seems to me you have an agenda when it comes to Barcia. I think jndmx might be on to something.....
Sherwood
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5/9/2012 2:13pm
It's not that you point them out it's that you go out of your way to do so.

Every other post is about how the Geico squad sucks outdoors. It makes you sound like your bitter they won the E and W title.
Huckster
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5/9/2012 2:14pm
mohammed wrote:
No disrespect to the other lites rider but it roczen championship to loose. Hes in another level.
that's pretty disrespectful to your country man Musquin.....If I remember correctly, Marvin pretty much had Roczen covered in '10......
NoGo
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5/9/2012 2:28pm
Sherwood wrote:
It's not that you point them out it's that you go out of your way to do so. Every other post is about how the Geico...
It's not that you point them out it's that you go out of your way to do so.

Every other post is about how the Geico squad sucks outdoors. It makes you sound like your bitter they won the E and W title.
How am I going out of my way when this whole thread is about 250 outdoor favorites and why they are or are not a favorite.

Youve stretched my words completely. I've never said the geico squad sucks outdoors. I said they haven't performed and that is a reality. Just like how PC hasn't performed indoors this year. Obviously geico doesn't suck outdoors they won the title in '10.

I'm in no way bitter about their regional title sweep nor am I bitter about barcias title last year. He and tomac are both animals indoors. They had the 2012 titles on a stranglehold right from the beginning.

As was proven last year their sx results don't translate to mx. I don't see that changing when none of the competition has left there's only more that have came in( roczen,bogle)
Old Mate
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5/9/2012 2:33pm
My favourite will be Matt Moss for some reason.
Huckster
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5/9/2012 2:34pm
NoGo wrote:
How am I going out of my way when this whole thread is about 250 outdoor favorites and why they are or are not a favorite...
How am I going out of my way when this whole thread is about 250 outdoor favorites and why they are or are not a favorite.

Youve stretched my words completely. I've never said the geico squad sucks outdoors. I said they haven't performed and that is a reality. Just like how PC hasn't performed indoors this year. Obviously geico doesn't suck outdoors they won the title in '10.

I'm in no way bitter about their regional title sweep nor am I bitter about barcias title last year. He and tomac are both animals indoors. They had the 2012 titles on a stranglehold right from the beginning.

As was proven last year their sx results don't translate to mx. I don't see that changing when none of the competition has left there's only more that have came in( roczen,bogle)
actually your last statement is not true.....Ratray moved up and as you know finished 2nd o/a and won multiple races last year.....but whose keeping track of the facts.....
NoGo
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5/9/2012 2:38pm
Huckster wrote:
Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season. You don't count that? He hasnt won a title in 2 professional years of racing the 250 class.....How...
Baggett crashed himself out of his rookie season. You don't count that? He hasnt won a title in 2 professional years of racing the 250 class.....How many guys have won overalls in the last 3 years? How many guys going to the line in '12 have won an overall outdoors? By your logic, every rider in the RC era that raced against him must have not performed because they didnt win an overall( how many O/A did Windham have in that era?) Barcia's rookie season Dungey won the title and then in '10 Canard won it. Seems to me he lost to some pretty good riders. there were only 2 guys who finished ahead of him that had not won a national title or GP championship in both of those years. You have pretty tough standards that if implemented make a lot of really good riders look like they have "not performed"

Seems to me you have an agenda when it comes to Barcia. I think jndmx might be on to something.....
Don't count it as a full season? No I don't because he didn't line up every Moto.

Barcias rookie season dungey won the title and barcia won an overall. The next season dungey was gone and he still didn't win an overall. Last year dungey pourcel and canard were gone and he didn't win a 250 overall. The only guys who won an overall in 09 -10 that don't have a national title are barcia, tomac, and weimer. Wilson won overalls in 2010 and the following year won the title.

Although he is injured , Wilson is still in the class and his shoulder doesnt seem to hold him to far back. So they still have to deal with last years champ as well as the guy he was battling with on top of another gp champ being added to the class. And you think theyre favorites ?when neither had anything for pc the whole summer. Great sx season but I don't see any indication of things going the same come hangtown. Daytona was the only partial sign we saw of what is to come for outdoors and baggett ran down barcia twice in a shortened main event.
NoGo
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5/9/2012 2:41pm
Huckster wrote:
actually your last statement is not true.....Ratray moved up and as you know finished 2nd o/a and won multiple races last year.....but whose keeping track of...
actually your last statement is not true.....Ratray moved up and as you know finished 2nd o/a and won multiple races last year.....but whose keeping track of the facts.....
So rattray has left .What is your point ? They didn't beat him either. And with the addition of roczen and bogle doesn't help. Hell they still have to finish ahead of Cunningham he was 4th or 5th in championship.

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