New bike pricing

reded
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3682
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Location
KS US
4/20/2012 10:51am
GuyB wrote:
IHMObro is on the short-list for a short posting career.
It seems he is no more.
GuyB
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35722
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Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
4/20/2012 10:57am
GuyB wrote:
IHMObro is on the short-list for a short posting career.
Grieby54 wrote:
I was reading through this after you and swept and before you had posted thinking, "How do you 'lurk this place for years' and not have...
I was reading through this after you and swept and before you had posted thinking, "How do you 'lurk this place for years' and not have a grasp on how to last for even a week!"

Much appreciated as usual, though, Gibby.
I haven't bothered checking IPs yet, but I'm guessing it's not his first rodeo.
MotoX85
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2199
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Location
Centralia, IL US
4/20/2012 11:04am
MotoX85 wrote:
I'll keep my shop names to myself, believe me or not, I don't really care. But funny you mentioned Wal-mart. As for the full oil and...
I'll keep my shop names to myself, believe me or not, I don't really care. But funny you mentioned Wal-mart.

As for the full oil and grease and retorque, your shop may do that and I would charge for setup if this is the case. But would like you to show me where this is written from the factory that you must do this setting up a unit. What your dealer does and what is requred is two different things. And remember we are talking MX bikes here, don't spin ATV's and crusiers in here because they do take several hours and I would say 4 - 5 a day for them is good.

MX bike, filter usually comes oiled from factory (not very well) but oiled.

Uncrate, add handle bars and wheel, fill with fluids, thats it. If you are re-torquing factory specs (apart from fork pinch bolts some times) you have now opened yourself up to a lawsuit and a voided 30 day warranty.

With all this being said about "I wouldn't trust a bike that was put together in 20 or so miutes". You should NEVER trust a bike put together by your local 17 yr old high school temp sttudent anyway. If you are not tearing your bike down to the frame, sans engine, when you buy it and regrease everything, then your truly an idiot. None of my bikes for the last 25 years have touch dirt prior to being "gone through".

Also it was mentioned that the dealer starts them up and break's them in.............BULLSHIT!!!!!!, you really want little Johnny heat cycling your motor for you, when it blows up, what are you gonna tell the factory.........that the dealership broke in your motor.............voided warranty, dealership has to cover costs...........best of luck getting your new motor.
three9zero wrote:
Most of our techs are 5 year journeymen. This is our shop, perhaps you've heard of it...... www.blackfootonline.com Most bikes (MX) have ZERO warranty, our techs...
Most of our techs are 5 year journeymen. This is our shop, perhaps you've heard of it......

www.blackfootonline.com


Most bikes (MX) have ZERO warranty, our techs run them up and check everything because we do not want comebacks on brand new bikes, which is what you get when you have a 17 year old stoner working in service......when my customers leave with a brand new bike in the back of their truck I make sure it runs perfect......as I want to sell that customer MULTIPLE units in his life from me and my shop, not just one......
And you may do that in your shop and yes, I think I have heard of you. So be it, if that is your business model, more power to ya. But I personnally would never break in a motor. You know they do this at the factory before it is shipped right, so really you are starting an already started motor, so break in is not necessary. Some people like to heat cycle their motors, I do not, but if thats the case with blackfoot, do you run the bike for a complete tank of gas. If so, I can see where it would take 2 hours per bike, if not longer.

As for 5 year journeyman setting up units. You are wasting their talents, you must pay really, really well.

Almost ALL mx bikes come with a 30 day warranty, read the fine print, for engine malfunction but it must be able to be proved it was a factory defect.

Friend bought a RMZ 2 years ago, about 30 mins of riding, blew the motor, found out the "dealer" had "broke in" his motor, Suzuki refused to pay for it.........After careful negotiations (threatened to sue based on defect in the cooling passages), and the dealer and factory splitting the cost, Travis now owns a 2 yr old RMZ with a brand new motor (fixed a couple months ago, 18 months after it blew up) with 30 minutes of riding on it. Actually I think he traded it in on a new KXF a month or so ago.

And as for your customers, I am glad they return and feel they got a "FAIR" deal. Dealerships have to make money, and I need to feel I didn;t get bent over. Nothing wrong with honest profit. And I return to the same dealer that sells me bikes because of yours/theirs business attitude.

But since your on here...............Lets comment on that Doc Fee portion, shall we. Care to make a statement on how wrong I am about those............
GuyB
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Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
4/20/2012 11:10am
reded wrote:
It seems he is no more.
Not yet, but he's working on it.

The Shop

three9zero
Posts
1454
Joined
9/26/2010
Location
Kamloops B.C CA
4/20/2012 11:47am
MotoX85 wrote:
I'll keep my shop names to myself, believe me or not, I don't really care. But funny you mentioned Wal-mart. As for the full oil and...
I'll keep my shop names to myself, believe me or not, I don't really care. But funny you mentioned Wal-mart.

As for the full oil and grease and retorque, your shop may do that and I would charge for setup if this is the case. But would like you to show me where this is written from the factory that you must do this setting up a unit. What your dealer does and what is requred is two different things. And remember we are talking MX bikes here, don't spin ATV's and crusiers in here because they do take several hours and I would say 4 - 5 a day for them is good.

MX bike, filter usually comes oiled from factory (not very well) but oiled.

Uncrate, add handle bars and wheel, fill with fluids, thats it. If you are re-torquing factory specs (apart from fork pinch bolts some times) you have now opened yourself up to a lawsuit and a voided 30 day warranty.

With all this being said about "I wouldn't trust a bike that was put together in 20 or so miutes". You should NEVER trust a bike put together by your local 17 yr old high school temp sttudent anyway. If you are not tearing your bike down to the frame, sans engine, when you buy it and regrease everything, then your truly an idiot. None of my bikes for the last 25 years have touch dirt prior to being "gone through".

Also it was mentioned that the dealer starts them up and break's them in.............BULLSHIT!!!!!!, you really want little Johnny heat cycling your motor for you, when it blows up, what are you gonna tell the factory.........that the dealership broke in your motor.............voided warranty, dealership has to cover costs...........best of luck getting your new motor.
three9zero wrote:
Most of our techs are 5 year journeymen. This is our shop, perhaps you've heard of it...... www.blackfootonline.com Most bikes (MX) have ZERO warranty, our techs...
Most of our techs are 5 year journeymen. This is our shop, perhaps you've heard of it......

www.blackfootonline.com


Most bikes (MX) have ZERO warranty, our techs run them up and check everything because we do not want comebacks on brand new bikes, which is what you get when you have a 17 year old stoner working in service......when my customers leave with a brand new bike in the back of their truck I make sure it runs perfect......as I want to sell that customer MULTIPLE units in his life from me and my shop, not just one......
MotoX85 wrote:
And you may do that in your shop and yes, I think I have heard of you. So be it, if that is your business model...
And you may do that in your shop and yes, I think I have heard of you. So be it, if that is your business model, more power to ya. But I personnally would never break in a motor. You know they do this at the factory before it is shipped right, so really you are starting an already started motor, so break in is not necessary. Some people like to heat cycle their motors, I do not, but if thats the case with blackfoot, do you run the bike for a complete tank of gas. If so, I can see where it would take 2 hours per bike, if not longer.

As for 5 year journeyman setting up units. You are wasting their talents, you must pay really, really well.

Almost ALL mx bikes come with a 30 day warranty, read the fine print, for engine malfunction but it must be able to be proved it was a factory defect.

Friend bought a RMZ 2 years ago, about 30 mins of riding, blew the motor, found out the "dealer" had "broke in" his motor, Suzuki refused to pay for it.........After careful negotiations (threatened to sue based on defect in the cooling passages), and the dealer and factory splitting the cost, Travis now owns a 2 yr old RMZ with a brand new motor (fixed a couple months ago, 18 months after it blew up) with 30 minutes of riding on it. Actually I think he traded it in on a new KXF a month or so ago.

And as for your customers, I am glad they return and feel they got a "FAIR" deal. Dealerships have to make money, and I need to feel I didn;t get bent over. Nothing wrong with honest profit. And I return to the same dealer that sells me bikes because of yours/theirs business attitude.

But since your on here...............Lets comment on that Doc Fee portion, shall we. Care to make a statement on how wrong I am about those............
I like to call it "destiantion" fee and lump all the fee's together, depends what the unit is......finance deals get a doc fee for sure, cash deals not all the time, depends on the negotiation of the deal. Big shops cost more to run than little mom and pop stores......Most shops in our region charge $ 250 doc fee(finance) or $ 199(cash) and $ 399 frt/pdi. we sell KTM's at retail and add no fee's, with small jap bikes the margin is so small you almost loose $ if you do not add fee's. At the end of the day we are here to sell bikes and are willing to negotiate price to make the deal, so really the end $ amount is all the matters and how the pricing gets there is just details. As a sales guy I love retail pricing and always try to get that, but it's a dog eat dog world so moving units is important. The Euro stuff like BMW and Triumph is where the good margins are, used is great money too. New Japanese stuff ( I ride Kawi) has the smallest margins and more dealers in the region so it's pretty cut-throat.
Out the door cash price is all that matters at the end of the deal.....
Tracktor
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2343
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Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA US
4/20/2012 12:09pm
Look, I rarely buy new bikes as I like to let someone else eat depreciation. ("However, when I do I buy Hondas").....heh...I don't care what "fees are charged. WHy? Because all I care about is how much cash I am bringing to the table. Call them doc fees, setup fees, hooker and blow fees, I don't care. I am paying $X for a bike and if you can't deliver on it I will buy elsewhere........I will say that I had a great experience buying my new bike from Motosport Hillsboro. Scott offered me a solid OTD price and had the bike ready when I showed up with no baloney at all (because I won't stand for baloney). I would've been in and out in 15 minutes if I hadn't stayed around to bench race with a few buddies that work there. Any one in the NW should give them a call....................
mcopsey
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452
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US
4/20/2012 1:03pm
mcopsey wrote:
What's a fair percentage to make on a bike sale?
Anyone?
Falcon
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12253
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Location
Menifee, CA US
4/20/2012 1:27pm
As a former dealership and OEM employee, here's my take-

Tracktor has a good opinion. Why should you care how the dealer slices it up? Look at the bottom line and pay what you feel is fair. Freight, setup, DOC, tax & license are all real, actual fees, but they are rarely what the dealer actually pays for them.

Dealers do pay freight to get units to their shops. They also do pay their technicians to assemble and or/ PDI the units. It is fair for them to ask for a reasonable return on those costs. (By the way, here in SoCal, it is common practice to ask anywhere from $750 to $1,000 as a markup on a full-sixe MX bike, disguised as F&S - obviously, it doesn't cost the dealer anywhere near that amount to pay the freight and to prep the bike!)

Documentation fees are not required by the state or the feds. They are ALLOWED by those entities, with a maximum. I believe the max in CA is currently $45, although it may have gone up since I last purchased a vehicle.

Tax and license are set fees that have to be paid. Either you pay them, or the dealer does and it comes out of the profit margin.

It is definitely 100% illegal to pass the fees of a credit card purchase on to a consumer. Just be forewarned that the dealer will consider your payment method when giving you your "best deal" on the bike. Guys who finance or pay in cash almost always pay less for their bikes by precisely the amount that the credit card fees would have cost. Strange how that works, isn't it?


A dealer can ASK whatever price he sees fit for a bike. You can agree to it like a sheep, tell him to pound sand like a jerk, or present him with a different offer and see if he'll take it. I often just give them a "no offense" offer. I say "I am willing to pay $X. If you don't want to go for it, hey, no offense, I understand. But you and I both know SOMEBODY will take that deal. Wanna sell a bike today?"
By the way, dealers do not make wheelbarrows full of money on MX bikes, as strange as it may seem. Do not offer a dealer $4,000 for a new 450 and get upset when he throws you out of his shop. Basically, on a unit with no additional rebates or incentives, if you can pay out the door what the MSRP is, you got a pretty good deal.
MotoX85
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Centralia, IL US
4/20/2012 1:33pm
"Basically, on a unit with no additional rebates or incentives, if you can pay out the door what the MSRP is, you got a pretty good deal."

And this basically brings us back to my original response. If you can get the bike for a little under or at retail, OTD, then you did OK.
MotoX85
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Centralia, IL US
4/20/2012 1:38pm
Ok, I went back and my first post is gone, or I am a very illeterate computer person.

Anyway my oringal response was " If you can get it OTD for a couple under retail you did good and retail OTD you did OK" or something to that effect.
MotoX85
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4/20/2012 1:41pm
Guy B, you didn't erase some of my posts when you were clipping IHMOBro. No worries, just wondering if I am going crazy or if I took a percocet to early.
andymoto
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Carmichael, CA US
4/20/2012 1:54pm
These charges were around back in the 2 stroke days.
mxracer732
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Oak Island, NC US
4/20/2012 3:16pm
Check out this place, almost worth the drive: southernhonda.com/2012-Honda-CRF450R-inventory.htm?ID=17286959&Brand=16&Type=1514&fm=1
mcopsey
Posts
452
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Location
US
4/20/2012 3:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/20/2012 3:48pm
MotoX85 wrote:
I'll keep my shop names to myself, believe me or not, I don't really care. But funny you mentioned Wal-mart. As for the full oil and...
I'll keep my shop names to myself, believe me or not, I don't really care. But funny you mentioned Wal-mart.

As for the full oil and grease and retorque, your shop may do that and I would charge for setup if this is the case. But would like you to show me where this is written from the factory that you must do this setting up a unit. What your dealer does and what is requred is two different things. And remember we are talking MX bikes here, don't spin ATV's and crusiers in here because they do take several hours and I would say 4 - 5 a day for them is good.

MX bike, filter usually comes oiled from factory (not very well) but oiled.

Uncrate, add handle bars and wheel, fill with fluids, thats it. If you are re-torquing factory specs (apart from fork pinch bolts some times) you have now opened yourself up to a lawsuit and a voided 30 day warranty.

With all this being said about "I wouldn't trust a bike that was put together in 20 or so miutes". You should NEVER trust a bike put together by your local 17 yr old high school temp sttudent anyway. If you are not tearing your bike down to the frame, sans engine, when you buy it and regrease everything, then your truly an idiot. None of my bikes for the last 25 years have touch dirt prior to being "gone through".

Also it was mentioned that the dealer starts them up and break's them in.............BULLSHIT!!!!!!, you really want little Johnny heat cycling your motor for you, when it blows up, what are you gonna tell the factory.........that the dealership broke in your motor.............voided warranty, dealership has to cover costs...........best of luck getting your new motor.
The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th paragraphs you wrote are completely wrong.

2nd paragraph: When you fill out the PDI sheet that every bike is supposed to have completed during assembly/setup you are confirming that you did exactly those things such as checking oil levels, adjusting tire pressure, checking spokes, brakes torque of chassis fasteners, etc.

3rd paragraph: KTM is the only manufacturer I deal with that actually puts air filter oil on their filters. All others have a light oil on them so the foam doesn't break down. If your shop isn't oiling the filters with air filter oil they are putting their customer's bikes at risk of catastrophic failure in a very short amount of time.

4th paragraph: You cannot void a warranty by torquing parts, how did you even come up with that one? Back to the first paragraph you are signing that you DID check those things, if you don't check them you are leaving yourself open to a lawsuit. Doing it in no way opens you up to a lawsuit, again where are you coming up with this?

6th paragraph: Yea, again, you are supposed to run the motor and test ride. It doesn't require breaking the motor in but what do you think running the motor to check for leaks and proper running does?
FreshTopEnd
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13135
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Location
Sacramento, CA US
4/20/2012 4:39pm
bigborefan wrote:
Well, Newmann is from TX isn't he? Those Texans do like to exaggerate and brag just a little....lol! But seriously Newmann has some nice stuff. I...
Well, Newmann is from TX isn't he? Those Texans do like to exaggerate and brag just a little....lol!

But seriously Newmann has some nice stuff. I am glad he shares the pics that he does.

The used market is where to go these days. save big bucks. I bought a 2009 KTM 950SE, these bad boys retail for $13,500. I got mine with 1001 miles on it for $8500.00. And that was with $1200.00 dollars of add-ons. No fees, no shipping charges either.

The manufacturers/dealers are about to price themselves out of the market IMO.
Katoom72 wrote:
You found a 950SE? Damn, im jealous now. Sad Those things are retardedly rare over here. Sad
There not that scarce over here. Seems to be a bike that ends up being not exactly what they want. One up on Reno right now.

http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/2959604771.html
bigborefan
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Location
Urbana, IL US
4/20/2012 7:39pm
bigborefan wrote:
Well, Newmann is from TX isn't he? Those Texans do like to exaggerate and brag just a little....lol! But seriously Newmann has some nice stuff. I...
Well, Newmann is from TX isn't he? Those Texans do like to exaggerate and brag just a little....lol!

But seriously Newmann has some nice stuff. I am glad he shares the pics that he does.

The used market is where to go these days. save big bucks. I bought a 2009 KTM 950SE, these bad boys retail for $13,500. I got mine with 1001 miles on it for $8500.00. And that was with $1200.00 dollars of add-ons. No fees, no shipping charges either.

The manufacturers/dealers are about to price themselves out of the market IMO.
Katoom72 wrote:
You found a 950SE? Damn, im jealous now. Sad Those things are retardedly rare over here. Sad
There not that scarce over here. Seems to be a bike that ends up being not exactly what they want. One up on Reno right now...
There not that scarce over here. Seems to be a bike that ends up being not exactly what they want. One up on Reno right now.

http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/2959604771.html
The 950 is an odd bike. I was the third owner of mine at 1001 miles. I love it myself.
IMHObro
Posts
42
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4/18/2012
Location
Ontario, CA US
4/20/2012 10:45pm
bigborefan wrote:
Well, Newmann is from TX isn't he? Those Texans do like to exaggerate and brag just a little....lol! But seriously Newmann has some nice stuff. I...
Well, Newmann is from TX isn't he? Those Texans do like to exaggerate and brag just a little....lol!

But seriously Newmann has some nice stuff. I am glad he shares the pics that he does.

The used market is where to go these days. save big bucks. I bought a 2009 KTM 950SE, these bad boys retail for $13,500. I got mine with 1001 miles on it for $8500.00. And that was with $1200.00 dollars of add-ons. No fees, no shipping charges either.

The manufacturers/dealers are about to price themselves out of the market IMO.
Katoom72 wrote:
You found a 950SE? Damn, im jealous now. Sad Those things are retardedly rare over here. Sad
There not that scarce over here. Seems to be a bike that ends up being not exactly what they want. One up on Reno right now...
There not that scarce over here. Seems to be a bike that ends up being not exactly what they want. One up on Reno right now.

http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/2959604771.html
I've seen that same bike same owner trying sell it months ago...i guess no takers

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