Who'd Like To See 450's Out Of SX?

GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 4:51pm
4/16/2012 4:51pm
insane one wrote:
So why don't we just change the rules and let the 500cc twostrokes race against the 450's just in the outdoor series. I know some priveteers...
So why don't we just change the rules and let the 500cc twostrokes race against the 450's just in the outdoor series. I know some priveteers that would prove the 500cc twostrokes are still King of the outdoors.!
I think that you just proved that you're insane all right.
insane one
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insane one 4/16/2012 4:54pm
4/16/2012 4:54pm
BAMX wrote:
What's he going to be riding? They haven't made a 500 2 stroke in over a decade? I love 2 strokes but a 450 is way...
What's he going to be riding? They haven't made a 500 2 stroke in over a decade? I love 2 strokes but a 450 is way better than a 500 2 stroke. If someone made a modern say 300-325 then you may have something but all a 500 does is make your hands numb.
Yet another one still under a rock. Service Honda /Kawasaki 500AF's. Maico 500 is still there as well..Blink
Torco1
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Torco1 4/16/2012 4:56pm
4/16/2012 4:56pm
Torco1 wrote:
A privateer on a 500 2-stroke is going to prove that it's still the king of the outdoors against RV, Dungey, Reed, Etc....on 4-strokes?
insane one wrote:
Well I do not know him personally but isn't Chad Reed basically a priveteer? Or say his team?
Well, if you want to call Reed a privateer and if you can get him to ride a 500 I would love to see that....I really would. I'm not against 2-strokes, I like them.......but I have to admit that 450's are awesome race bikes that have evolved quite a bit over the years.
peelout
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peelout 4/16/2012 4:57pm
4/16/2012 4:57pm
condom manufacturers are missing a great opportunity to get into moto.

what do moto bro's do? ride and f*ck bitches.

the typical bro is influenced by what he see's on the pro riders and what they are drinking on the podium (monster and fox, fuck yeah!)

all Trojan needs to do is film a commercial with a high profile rider running out of a 36 case of condoms and a bad ass pool/beach scene with all the Monster Energy sluts. i imagine a few bro's would pop a valve and run right out and buy a box of "her Pleasure" jimmy-caps if Durham thanked Trojan on the podium after nailing down a win and no less than 3 monster girls.

bam. sold.

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roughneck
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roughneck 4/16/2012 4:58pm
4/16/2012 4:58pm
peelout wrote:
condom manufacturers are missing a great opportunity to get into moto. what do moto bro's do? ride and f*ck bitches. the typical bro is influenced by...
condom manufacturers are missing a great opportunity to get into moto.

what do moto bro's do? ride and f*ck bitches.

the typical bro is influenced by what he see's on the pro riders and what they are drinking on the podium (monster and fox, fuck yeah!)

all Trojan needs to do is film a commercial with a high profile rider running out of a 36 case of condoms and a bad ass pool/beach scene with all the Monster Energy sluts. i imagine a few bro's would pop a valve and run right out and buy a box of "her Pleasure" jimmy-caps if Durham thanked Trojan on the podium after nailing down a win and no less than 3 monster girls.

bam. sold.
Woohoo
Whorehay
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Whorehay 4/16/2012 5:00pm
4/16/2012 5:00pm
Peelout for president!!!!
insane one
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insane one 4/16/2012 5:04pm
4/16/2012 5:04pm
GuyB wrote:
I think that you just proved that you're insane all right.
You know when the YZ400f came it was clear that the 250cc twostroke was no match. The same can be said about the 250f and the 125. But nothing has beatten the 500cc twostroke.! Suzuki, Yamaha and the AMA beat them not the fans or the racer's who raced them.!! If you raced the CR500AF vs. someone your calliber you will win.!! Prove me wrong find a CR500 steelly if you can not get an AF500. Not a broken down CR500 from 1985 either.
neverwasfastenuf 4/16/2012 5:07pm
4/16/2012 5:07pm
moto284 wrote:
you sir are out of your mind. there would be no chance for privateers and i dont no about everyone else but i would rather watch...
you sir are out of your mind. there would be no chance for privateers and i dont no about everyone else but i would rather watch 450s over a JR class anyday
insane one wrote:
For those of us who care. I can remember when the same thing was said about the open class.. They were the premire class. The 250...
For those of us who care. I can remember when the same thing was said about the open class.. They were the premire class. The 250 was nothing more then a college boy class.
Nah, the outdoor split season 250/Open class was the hot ticket with the 125s running the full series. Gave the youngsters a chance to race any/or all of the tracks and wasn't so grueling on the big boys, plus it made it more exciting for the fans. The big bores were never really well suited to the indoors, and the new 450 non-smokers make it tough for the track builders to make something that safely challenges them and yet allows the privateers to have a fair chance. Look at the lap times, it's just nuts. I don't like seeing the injuries that continue to happen with the premeir class running the 450 non-smokers for a full season of Supercross and then having to continue to run them outdoors. It is inevitable that someone or several someones will continue to get hurt if they keep the current system.
YellowZonker 4/16/2012 5:08pm
4/16/2012 5:08pm
So much crazy in one place. It would be funny if you guys weren't serious.
R-acer
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R-acer 4/16/2012 5:13pm
4/16/2012 5:13pm
Rupert X wrote:
This guy would. I'd think we'd see less injuries and the racing would be umm, racier. 250cc limit in the premiere class - any stroke goes...
This guy would.

I'd think we'd see less injuries and the racing would be umm, racier.

250cc limit in the premiere class - any stroke goes.

150cc limit in the junior class - any stroke goes.

450s outdoor ? Oh hell yes.

Discuss, with beer and nachos.

And NO cross-jumping !
Ummmmm, I think you have had too much beer and nachos...... HELL NO!! I dont want to see 450's go away!!!

The bikes and cc's and strokes are perfect the way they are
rocrac
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rocrac 4/16/2012 5:14pm
4/16/2012 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2012 5:18pm
Why not add another 100cc to 200cc , another 40lbs, along with adding another 30' to 40' to the jumps and finally finish what the dumbfuck rule makers started. Killing these poor kids.
tobz
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tobz 4/16/2012 5:18pm
4/16/2012 5:18pm
Scientific proof that 450's are the cause of more injuries?
RudyRayMo
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RudyRayMo 4/16/2012 5:18pm
4/16/2012 5:18pm
at least tone the 450's down there's only so fast you can go on a 450...we're headed the nascar way anyway. right?
GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 5:18pm
4/16/2012 5:18pm
insane one wrote:
You know when the YZ400f came it was clear that the 250cc twostroke was no match. The same can be said about the 250f and the...
You know when the YZ400f came it was clear that the 250cc twostroke was no match. The same can be said about the 250f and the 125. But nothing has beatten the 500cc twostroke.! Suzuki, Yamaha and the AMA beat them not the fans or the racer's who raced them.!! If you raced the CR500AF vs. someone your calliber you will win.!! Prove me wrong find a CR500 steelly if you can not get an AF500. Not a broken down CR500 from 1985 either.
500 two-strokes beat themselves. All the attention shifted to the 250 class.
GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 5:20pm
4/16/2012 5:20pm
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
BAMX
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BAMX 4/16/2012 5:22pm
4/16/2012 5:22pm
BAMX wrote:
What's he going to be riding? They haven't made a 500 2 stroke in over a decade? I love 2 strokes but a 450 is way...
What's he going to be riding? They haven't made a 500 2 stroke in over a decade? I love 2 strokes but a 450 is way better than a 500 2 stroke. If someone made a modern say 300-325 then you may have something but all a 500 does is make your hands numb.
insane one wrote:
Yet another one still under a rock. Service Honda /Kawasaki 500AF's. Maico 500 is still there as well..Blink
Service Honda's are dump trucks and are not OEM(and Yes I have ridden them many times). Service Honda could never produce enough to meet homolagation even if all of you whackos bought one. Maico's are like a 1990 CR500. TOTAL POS A stock 450 would destroy both of those let alone a factory 450.
GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 5:27pm
4/16/2012 5:27pm
BAMX wrote:
Service Honda's are dump trucks and are not OEM(and Yes I have ridden them many times). Service Honda could never produce enough to meet homolagation even...
Service Honda's are dump trucks and are not OEM(and Yes I have ridden them many times). Service Honda could never produce enough to meet homolagation even if all of you whackos bought one. Maico's are like a 1990 CR500. TOTAL POS A stock 450 would destroy both of those let alone a factory 450.
I wouldn't go with dump trucks, but I do agree on the homologation issue.
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BAMX 4/16/2012 5:28pm
4/16/2012 5:28pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
It is impressive to see that they can essentially seat bounce anything on the track if they have to. How many times have you seen guys get totally squirrely in the corner before and still have to scrub the jump? I don't think it makes the racing better in fact I might argue the opposite but, it is impressive.

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BAMX
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BAMX 4/16/2012 5:32pm
4/16/2012 5:32pm
BAMX wrote:
Service Honda's are dump trucks and are not OEM(and Yes I have ridden them many times). Service Honda could never produce enough to meet homolagation even...
Service Honda's are dump trucks and are not OEM(and Yes I have ridden them many times). Service Honda could never produce enough to meet homolagation even if all of you whackos bought one. Maico's are like a 1990 CR500. TOTAL POS A stock 450 would destroy both of those let alone a factory 450.
GuyB wrote:
I wouldn't go with dump trucks, but I do agree on the homologation issue.
Dump truck may have been a bit harsh. Hey I love 2 strokes and ride them more than my 4 stroke. That being said, I don't believe that the top guys would go as fast on it as their current 450's.
Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 4/16/2012 5:32pm
4/16/2012 5:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2012 5:38pm
I would love to see it. The only negative I can think regarding the premiere class racing 250f's would be that the lighter smaller guys would have a slight weight advantage over the bigger guys like Millsaps (any advantage helps at their level).

I think the racing would also be safer and closer. I posted this in another thread, but the faster the pace is, the quicker riders have to process things mentally. It's like guitar-hero on the super quick overwhelming level in the 450 class, except when these guys miss a note out on the track, they end up missing the rest of the series. Slowing the bikes down would allow for the riders to process everything happening on the track much easier, which translates to rider safety. It would also bring back aggressive 'riding the bike to its full potential' riding styles. Kevin Windham's opening ceremony transfers just go to show what small percentage of power these guys use on the 450's getting around a supercross track (e.g., in Arlington, TX this year, K-dub hopped a berm, blipped the throttle before sailing 120 feet).

One more rambling... In 2006 I never thought I would see professional racers riding 450's as fast as they could go. I was wrong! Ryan Villopoto recently said they are going as fast as they possibly can on 450's, obviously not power wise, but determined by the laws of physics. It seems like this generation of riders have adapted well, which does not seem like the problem. The problem is that the human body is the same as it was 500 years ago.
rocrac
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rocrac 4/16/2012 5:36pm
4/16/2012 5:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2012 5:44pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
BAMX wrote:
It is impressive to see that they can essentially seat bounce anything on the track if they have to. How many times have you seen guys...
It is impressive to see that they can essentially seat bounce anything on the track if they have to. How many times have you seen guys get totally squirrely in the corner before and still have to scrub the jump? I don't think it makes the racing better in fact I might argue the opposite but, it is impressive.
Yep and it's boring a hell to watch. The 250 class is a lot more exciting to watch and should be the premier class. Look around folks, most every motor sport out there is working to slow down their respected machines since technology has outpaced mans ability. Not our sport, we just keep making them faster and better even worse, we put those machines in the hands of 14 year old amateurs.
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Hank_Thrill 4/16/2012 5:42pm
4/16/2012 5:42pm
rocrac wrote:
Yep and it's boring a hell to watch. The 250 class is a lot more exciting to watch and should be the premier class. Look around...
Yep and it's boring a hell to watch. The 250 class is a lot more exciting to watch and should be the premier class. Look around folks, most every motor sport out there is working to slow down their respected machines since technology has outpaced mans ability. Not our sport, we just keep making them faster and better even worse, we put those machines in the hands of 14 year old amateurs.
This guy gets it!
Sherwood
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Sherwood 4/16/2012 5:42pm
4/16/2012 5:42pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
Is that a problem?
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TannerMxer 4/16/2012 5:42pm
4/16/2012 5:42pm
Rupert X wrote:
This guy would. I'd think we'd see less injuries and the racing would be umm, racier. 250cc limit in the premiere class - any stroke goes...
This guy would.

I'd think we'd see less injuries and the racing would be umm, racier.

250cc limit in the premiere class - any stroke goes.

150cc limit in the junior class - any stroke goes.

450s outdoor ? Oh hell yes.

Discuss, with beer and nachos.

And NO cross-jumping !
I have been saying exactly this since 2006.
GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 5:47pm
4/16/2012 5:47pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
Sherwood wrote:
Is that a problem?
It is if it doesn't solve the problem that problem that's trying to be solved.
insane one
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insane one 4/16/2012 5:47pm
4/16/2012 5:47pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
Ok so if guys like RC rode the CR500AF on his edge are you saying he would be slower? I think not! RC's edge was pinned forth or fifth gear on his RMZ450. Well if you pin his RMZ450 in fifth along side a CR500 in fifth well you couldn't!! A 450f is not faster than a 500cc twostroke!!!! Man I wish some top level pro would just race the CR or KX500AF on a outdoor track against any 450f.. Just so you all would eat your words..
GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 5:48pm
4/16/2012 5:48pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
insane one wrote:
Ok so if guys like RC rode the CR500AF on his edge are you saying he would be slower? I think not! RC's edge was pinned...
Ok so if guys like RC rode the CR500AF on his edge are you saying he would be slower? I think not! RC's edge was pinned forth or fifth gear on his RMZ450. Well if you pin his RMZ450 in fifth along side a CR500 in fifth well you couldn't!! A 450f is not faster than a 500cc twostroke!!!! Man I wish some top level pro would just race the CR or KX500AF on a outdoor track against any 450f.. Just so you all would eat your words..
I'm saying it doesn't matter, because we'll never see one in pro racing.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 4/16/2012 5:55pm
4/16/2012 5:55pm
I don't see it as wanting 450's out of SX, i see it as wanting 450's out of racing period.... if Stew/Dung/Short/Reed/etc can't safely put down all a 450 has what chance does a local smoe have??

the old 125/250 classes were perfect... they shouldn't have screwed with a good thing in the first place...

and i'd rather not see 250F's as the premier class in SX from a prestige standpoint... but they might allow for a tighter field, something SX really needs....

but if 250F's are the premier class, what becomes of the little class? (btw, lites and SX classes STILL Freak'n suck for names)... the only logical answer in my mind is 125 2 smokes... cheaper... less power... should have slower lap times... it would look dumb to have the premier class on 250F's and the lil boy underwear class on them as well (ala Arenacross)...
Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 4/16/2012 5:56pm
4/16/2012 5:56pm
GuyB wrote:
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do. But I do...
The fastest guys will be riding right on the edge no matter what size bikes they're on. That's what they're paid to do.

But I do think the tracks might now break down as quickly, and guys might not be able to pull the trigger on some huge triple out of a corner like they can do now.
With all due respect your majesty, if we gave these warriors a 600cc displacement, I believe they would, as you say, ride the machines as fast as they could possibly go. Maybe not every round! Since the "Got to be in it to win it" philosophy would reign supreme on such bikes. However, in situations like the first moto at Steel City last year between Dungey and Villopoto, we would probably see two men fly around a track quicker than they did on that magnificent day.

With that said, what would be safer: 250fs, 450s, or 600cc dirt scoots?
GuyB
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GuyB 4/16/2012 6:03pm
4/16/2012 6:03pm
Majesty? Not sure who you're referring to there. Certainly not me.

Outdoors is a different beast from SX...and I think the topic here was regarding SX, if I'm not mistaken. Smile

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