Cooper Webb

Team Ideal
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1172
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Location
Ste. Marie, IL, USA
3/23/2012 12:23pm
I thought Star Valli was going to release some kind of statement this week? instead just keep quiet and hope it all goes away I guess.
3/23/2012 11:56pm
If I'm not mistaken, I thought the AMA rule book stated that any rider or team in this matter, that refuses to tear down the bike in a protest is automatically suspended for one year. Has anyone questioned this? Seems odd that this hasn't been raised.

Doesn't the person or persons protesting have to pay a fee for each item protested? Does that mean since the bike was not torn down that they get there money back and did they?

Seems unfair the rider protested gets to say in essence " screw you I don't have to tear it down" and get away with it. Sure, he was DQ'd but What kind of precedence is being made here. Doesn't the AMA enforce the rules fairly or is it because of who he is that lets him pull this off. I thought the AMA was there at the track to perform these duties. If they make the rules they have to follow through with them no matter who the rider or team is.

Just my two cents
IceMan446
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Sacramento, CA, USA
3/24/2012 12:42am
I hate to say this but, this kind of reminds me when a crew chief in NASCAR gets caught cheating.

The crew chief is the one in trouble and shoulders the blame, Coopers Mechanic or team manager should do the same.

Cooper rides what they give him, thinking that the people in the know, know what should and shouldn't be on the bike.

Disqualify him from the race, that's fair. But don't suspend him and hold it over his head for the rest of his am career.

I think once you get caught you should have to pass a post race inspection at ever major race the following year. Random parts of the bike should be checked each time.

That would deter some of those folks from cheating to begin with and make them think twice before trying to cheat again after they were caught.
mxbum
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Location
Fairfield, OH, USA
3/24/2012 6:54am
If I'm not mistaken, I thought the AMA rule book stated that any rider or team in this matter, that refuses to tear down the bike...
If I'm not mistaken, I thought the AMA rule book stated that any rider or team in this matter, that refuses to tear down the bike in a protest is automatically suspended for one year. Has anyone questioned this? Seems odd that this hasn't been raised.

Doesn't the person or persons protesting have to pay a fee for each item protested? Does that mean since the bike was not torn down that they get there money back and did they?

Seems unfair the rider protested gets to say in essence " screw you I don't have to tear it down" and get away with it. Sure, he was DQ'd but What kind of precedence is being made here. Doesn't the AMA enforce the rules fairly or is it because of who he is that lets him pull this off. I thought the AMA was there at the track to perform these duties. If they make the rules they have to follow through with them no matter who the rider or team is.

Just my two cents
From the 2012 AMA rulebook (Chapter 5-B-5p):

p. Refusing to submit a machine or component
(including fuel) for inspection, measurement or
testing. Such refusal will result in the forfeiture of all
points, prizes and rights at the race meet in question,
plus a fine and one-year suspension.

Curent protest fees (from the ama rulebook):

.1. Visual Protests that relate to motorcycles and components where
compliance or noncompliance can be confirmed visually. A $50
per item fee is required on all visual protests.
2. Technical Protests relate to motorcycles and components where
some type of measuring device or teardown procedure is needed
to confirm compliance or noncompliance with the rules. A $50
per item fee is required on any technical protests.
a. In addition to the protest fee(s), the following teardown fees
will apply for a technical protest requiring measurement or
teardown of an engine:
(1) 2-stroke engine: $100
(2) 4-stroke engines and all other 2-strokes: $250
(3) An additional $100 is required for measurement of any
engine that must be removed from the frame for inspection.
3. Administrative: All other protests will be defined as administrative
(e.g., rider eligibility, scoring, etc.). These protests require a $50
fee.

The protesting party gets all fees reunded if the protest is rules in their favor, I assume the same is true if the item is not made avaiable for inspection/teardown, From the rulebook:

12. If a protest is decided in favor of the protesting party, the
referee will refund the protest fee and teardown fee, if any,
and forward a report in writing to the AMA.

The Shop

3/24/2012 7:08am
As far as I know, Star never refused to tear anything down. you people are making assumptions about what should happen based on something that didn't happen o
Jamey1e
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Location
Mount Croghan, SC, USA
3/24/2012 7:38am
Wow this sucks for Cooper. Being from Coastal NC I've spoken with Cooper several times and believe me he's as nice and humble as it gets. However I highly doubt he's was the only one out there with an illegal mod!
3/24/2012 8:31am
If he didn't refuse to have the bike torn down, why didn't the AMA do it? Why did they load it up without the bike being shown to be stock inside?
I'm sure Cooper is a good kid, but rules are rules regardless if you are ignorant of the rules or not. When you come to the races you're expected to know and follow the rules, it's just that simple. You can't claim..".We'll the kid didn't know and he's a great kid so therefore".
If Coopers dad didn't know about this...then he should be furious with the team for putting there career in jeopardy, Point Blank.

Besides if Cooper is as good as some same and could win on anything, then he should prove it and show up on a stock bike.

That being said, if it truly was the teams doing and the rider and riders dad didn't know, I feel bad for them.
For Real
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Location
Bloomington, PW, USA
3/24/2012 2:23pm
If they refused, why didn't the AMA suspend him? Why isn't the guy who protested him throwing a fit? A kid is responsibal for the bike he rides. It was found to be illegal. They DQed him, end of story.
Sherwood
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USA
3/24/2012 2:33pm
For people that failed to read the link posted they DID break the bike down.

Right now it was a carburration problem that doesn't meet the rules for the B class stock, it specifically has in the rulebook of the AMA rules that “under the B stock class a carburettor can not be modified” and right now it appears that the carburettor was modified. The sad thing is that I'm sure this is unbeknownst to Cooper (Webb), he's the rider and they say go ride this bike. That's the sad part about it, he's suffering the consequences of what somebody else did. And maybe they didn't do it with intent, maybe they just didn't take the time to get the rulebook and I believe that's what it's going to come down to. I can tell you that being involved with all these mechanics and all these team managers, they work their butts off to make sure they are above board and it's probably just somebody didn't stop and read the rulebook on what you can and can't do because it wasn't a huge problem with what was done, it just probably just slipped through the cracks. These guys spend way too much time and too much money to just blatantly just go out there and cheat.
m.j.jenga
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Location
Tallahassee, FL, USA
4/3/2012 1:14pm
Team Ideal wrote:
I thought Star Valli was going to release some kind of statement this week? instead just keep quiet and hope it all goes away I guess.
I haven't seen any statements, did I miss it?
4/3/2012 2:58pm
IceMan446 wrote:
I hate to say this but, this kind of reminds me when a crew chief in NASCAR gets caught cheating. The crew chief is the one...
I hate to say this but, this kind of reminds me when a crew chief in NASCAR gets caught cheating.

The crew chief is the one in trouble and shoulders the blame, Coopers Mechanic or team manager should do the same.

Cooper rides what they give him, thinking that the people in the know, know what should and shouldn't be on the bike.

Disqualify him from the race, that's fair. But don't suspend him and hold it over his head for the rest of his am career.

I think once you get caught you should have to pass a post race inspection at ever major race the following year. Random parts of the bike should be checked each time.

That would deter some of those folks from cheating to begin with and make them think twice before trying to cheat again after they were caught.
great post!
4/3/2012 3:18pm
Savatgy is just a big pussy. First of all the kids at the amateur nationals bikes' aren't even CLOSE to the actual factory team's bikes. Yes, they have SUPPORT FROM THE FACTORY TEAM, NO their bikes aren't full on factory. Not even to say in the slights form of the word. And I'll ALSO just say that if Joey had the opportunity to race for a factory team, as an amateur he wouldn't turn down the deal and say "No I don't want your deal because it's not fair to run factory stuff at an amateur level". That was just him whining because he's not a top name anymore and was never offered a nice pro deal. All he does is whine whine whine. And wine some more.
4/3/2012 5:47pm
Whether or not he had a factory deal or not is irrelevant, it was the stock class that they had the issues with, not the mod.
jwag87
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92
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Location
AX
4/3/2012 6:01pm
bobby397 wrote:
Caught cheating at the Amateur national at millcreek this past week? Joey Savatgy's facebook post, "Since when is it fair to run factory stuff at the...
Caught cheating at the Amateur national at millcreek this past week? Joey Savatgy's facebook post,
"Since when is it fair to run factory stuff at the amateur nationals? Haha just my 2 cents"
"Battle of the factory bikes haha... What a joke"
“@jaceowen401: Take that back. I won the 250b stk title as well. So pumped on the day!!!” haha solid" (webb had won it)
"Idk why people just can't play by the rules... It brings bad stuff to our sport"
Awhit167 wrote:
savatgy was the one that probably protested lol.
35smom wrote:
Couldnt have. Not in the same class!
Savagty was at aonia pass racing sat and Sun not mill creek
4/3/2012 7:49pm
Awhit167 wrote:
savatgy was the one that probably protested lol.
35smom wrote:
Couldnt have. Not in the same class!
jwag87 wrote:
Savagty was at aonia pass racing sat and Sun not mill creek
Dakota Alix's Father went to MillCreek with around $30,000 in pursuit to claim Bisceglias, Martins and Webbs bike. He didn't, instead he protested Webbs
MC752
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Location
Las Cruces, NM, USA
4/4/2012 9:41am
Seems for 30,000 he coulda bought somethin pretty close to Reeds bike..... Or maybe he's upset that his kid is getting beat. Either way im sure Webb will continue to win mod carb or not.
BR_HERO
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Location
Cerritos, CA, USA
4/4/2012 9:46am
35smom wrote:
Couldnt have. Not in the same class!
jwag87 wrote:
Savagty was at aonia pass racing sat and Sun not mill creek
BradMOTOx wrote:
Dakota Alix's Father went to MillCreek with around $30,000 in pursuit to claim Bisceglias, Martins and Webbs bike. He didn't, instead he protested Webbs
30k to claim some "stock" bikes?
4/5/2012 2:11pm
jwag87 wrote:
Savagty was at aonia pass racing sat and Sun not mill creek
BradMOTOx wrote:
Dakota Alix's Father went to MillCreek with around $30,000 in pursuit to claim Bisceglias, Martins and Webbs bike. He didn't, instead he protested Webbs
BR_HERO wrote:
30k to claim some "stock" bikes?
Yes. In order to claim a bike you have to have cash for the bikes retail value plus 30% of the retail value added on. Martins bike wouldn't have been stock. They had bigger intensions than just claiming stock bikes.
slumpstone
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398
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Location
Thomasville, GA, USA
4/5/2012 2:38pm
BradMOTOx wrote:
Dakota Alix's Father went to MillCreek with around $30,000 in pursuit to claim Bisceglias, Martins and Webbs bike. He didn't, instead he protested Webbs
BR_HERO wrote:
30k to claim some "stock" bikes?
BradMOTOx wrote:
Yes. In order to claim a bike you have to have cash for the bikes retail value plus 30% of the retail value added on. Martins...
Yes. In order to claim a bike you have to have cash for the bikes retail value plus 30% of the retail value added on. Martins bike wouldn't have been stock. They had bigger intensions than just claiming stock bikes.
Dude you talk alot of shit. Do you even ride? STFU noob.
BESTY #72
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429
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Location
GB
4/5/2012 3:15pm
No matter where you ride, who you are or how fast you are. There's always one person who runs some kind of unfair advantage. You guys moan, but in the UK it's literally ridiculous. Auto class consists of 1 actual stock 50 out of a 40 rider line up. The rest run extended swing arms, big wheels and even 70 kits. 65 class- 80/ 85 bore kits. 85 classes-consists of the rich (parents willing to pay £70,000 for their kids to have a team bike), and Crf 180's (bored out 150's). That pretty much carry's on though all the other classes too. We don't have stock and mod, so it's not like its that easy to see either.

You can't control it. Even if AMA or whatever only allow certain bikes with wired engines(like karting) someone will find a way of cheating. Even if a ton of parents or whatever try to protest about someones bike. It won't get stripped to prove the bike was bored out, or of unfair advantage they'll just load the bike up and leave. Much like Max Anstie back in the 65 days, when he was running 80 bore kits in his 65's.
gyd58
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Location
USA
4/5/2012 3:17pm
It is interesting how this thread is now about Dakota Alix’s dad’s intention to claim bikes at Mill Creek rather than Cooper Webb racing an illegal bike and Star not allowing the items protested to be inspected at Mill Creek.

Prior to racing, the AMA officials had arranged for a qualified professional engine builder to be available for handling any technical protest during the week. When Webb's bike was protested for a number of technical modifications to the motor, the bike was impounded and this individual attempted to inspect and measure the items in the protest. The Star group would not let the AMA designated person inspect or measure anything from the bike. The Star group decided they would send the bike to the AMA rather than follow the procedures for protests.

This is corroborated by the following tweet from Cooper Webb after the protest was lodged:
"I got protested in 250 B stk. My bike is being sent to AMA as of right now everything is legal and I won 250 B stk. Get your facts straight"
The issues with the carb did not require any special inspection or measuring by the AMA tech, and Webb was disqualified for those violations. There was no determination regarding the other items in the protest at Mill Creek.

The questions I would have would be:
Did Cooper’s bike made it to the AMA for inspection? If not, why not?
What possibly could be Star’s concern with the motor of the bike in the stock class being inspected?
Can anyone articulate one?
Why has Star and Webb been silent on the issues relating to the bike?

There are a lot of dads, granddads, uncles and even some moms out there that can somehow get their kids to the line at these AMA races on bikes that comply with the rules for the stock class. This is a full on race team, someone built that bike specifically to race the AMA stock class.
DirtyFilter75
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Location
Evansville, IN, USA
4/5/2012 4:09pm
gyd58 wrote:
It is interesting how this thread is now about Dakota Alix’s dad’s intention to claim bikes at Mill Creek rather than Cooper Webb racing an illegal...
It is interesting how this thread is now about Dakota Alix’s dad’s intention to claim bikes at Mill Creek rather than Cooper Webb racing an illegal bike and Star not allowing the items protested to be inspected at Mill Creek.

Prior to racing, the AMA officials had arranged for a qualified professional engine builder to be available for handling any technical protest during the week. When Webb's bike was protested for a number of technical modifications to the motor, the bike was impounded and this individual attempted to inspect and measure the items in the protest. The Star group would not let the AMA designated person inspect or measure anything from the bike. The Star group decided they would send the bike to the AMA rather than follow the procedures for protests.

This is corroborated by the following tweet from Cooper Webb after the protest was lodged:
"I got protested in 250 B stk. My bike is being sent to AMA as of right now everything is legal and I won 250 B stk. Get your facts straight"
The issues with the carb did not require any special inspection or measuring by the AMA tech, and Webb was disqualified for those violations. There was no determination regarding the other items in the protest at Mill Creek.

The questions I would have would be:
Did Cooper’s bike made it to the AMA for inspection? If not, why not?
What possibly could be Star’s concern with the motor of the bike in the stock class being inspected?
Can anyone articulate one?
Why has Star and Webb been silent on the issues relating to the bike?

There are a lot of dads, granddads, uncles and even some moms out there that can somehow get their kids to the line at these AMA races on bikes that comply with the rules for the stock class. This is a full on race team, someone built that bike specifically to race the AMA stock class.
The sad thing about this is Cooper, Jace, and those guys are in a league of their own anyway. They don't need to cheat yet everyone is looking for that edge.
4/5/2012 4:29pm
Prior to racing, the AMA officials had arranged for a qualified professional engine builder to be available for handling any technical protest during the week.
Not true. I personally witnessed the officials trying to decide who would be a good person for the job. Several people were considered before the person who did the teardown was selected. It was absolutely not arranged before racing started.

When Webb's bike was protested for a number of technical modifications to the motor, the bike was impounded and this individual attempted to inspect and measure the items in the protest. The Star group would not let the AMA designated person inspect or measure anything from the bike. The Star group decided they would send the bike to the AMA rather than follow the procedures for protests.
I think someone who is protested and someone who protests has every right to expect someone with no ties to either party tear the bike down. If the Star guys wanted Yamaha to determine it, I would expect the protesting party to object. If the engine builder chosen to tear it down had ties to the protesting party, I would expect an objection from the protested party. If an agreement by both parties as to who would tear it down could not be reached, sending it to the AMA for inspection would be a logical compromise.

The issues with the carb did not require any special inspection or measuring by the AMA tech, and Webb was disqualified for those violations. There was no determination regarding the other items in the protest at Mill Creek.
This is true and was agreed to by the protesting party. It was his call and my understanding is that he agreed that a DQ for the float bowl was enough. I probably would have made them show everything, but the protesting party chose not to. At that point it was done.

Did Cooper’s bike made it to the AMA for inspection? If not, why not?
No, see above for reason.

What possibly could be Star’s concern with the motor of the bike in the stock class being inspected?
Can anyone articulate one?
I can't make any comments on the legality of the motor because I didn't see it and would not know what it was even if I had. I am a four stroke idiot. If it were me, I would just want to make sure the party looking at the engine was impartial. If there was any question, I would have wanted it to go to the AMA. If they had been found illegal for something they thought was not right, it would have been boxed up and sent to the AMA for appeal anyway.

Why has Star and Webb been silent on the issues relating to the bike?
What do you expect him to say? They had a bad part, they got DQed. Not really much to say. I'm sure the team learned from it and moved on.
MR. X
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4/5/2012 4:56pm
At the rate the price of new bikes is going up you will be able to go into a dealership in 5 years and claim a stock bike for 30k
35smom
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Asbury, USA
4/5/2012 5:21pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
[quote]Prior to racing, the AMA officials had arranged for a qualified professional engine builder to be available for handling any technical protest during the week.[/quote] Not...
Prior to racing, the AMA officials had arranged for a qualified professional engine builder to be available for handling any technical protest during the week.
Not true. I personally witnessed the officials trying to decide who would be a good person for the job. Several people were considered before the person who did the teardown was selected. It was absolutely not arranged before racing started.

When Webb's bike was protested for a number of technical modifications to the motor, the bike was impounded and this individual attempted to inspect and measure the items in the protest. The Star group would not let the AMA designated person inspect or measure anything from the bike. The Star group decided they would send the bike to the AMA rather than follow the procedures for protests.
I think someone who is protested and someone who protests has every right to expect someone with no ties to either party tear the bike down. If the Star guys wanted Yamaha to determine it, I would expect the protesting party to object. If the engine builder chosen to tear it down had ties to the protesting party, I would expect an objection from the protested party. If an agreement by both parties as to who would tear it down could not be reached, sending it to the AMA for inspection would be a logical compromise.

The issues with the carb did not require any special inspection or measuring by the AMA tech, and Webb was disqualified for those violations. There was no determination regarding the other items in the protest at Mill Creek.
This is true and was agreed to by the protesting party. It was his call and my understanding is that he agreed that a DQ for the float bowl was enough. I probably would have made them show everything, but the protesting party chose not to. At that point it was done.

Did Cooper’s bike made it to the AMA for inspection? If not, why not?
No, see above for reason.

What possibly could be Star’s concern with the motor of the bike in the stock class being inspected?
Can anyone articulate one?
I can't make any comments on the legality of the motor because I didn't see it and would not know what it was even if I had. I am a four stroke idiot. If it were me, I would just want to make sure the party looking at the engine was impartial. If there was any question, I would have wanted it to go to the AMA. If they had been found illegal for something they thought was not right, it would have been boxed up and sent to the AMA for appeal anyway.

Why has Star and Webb been silent on the issues relating to the bike?
What do you expect him to say? They had a bad part, they got DQed. Not really much to say. I'm sure the team learned from it and moved on.
Very good Mike. Great explanation! (for those who do not deal with this on a regular basis). All the offical needed was the one item to DQ him and move on. The only time you see a whole bike torn down is when items on the list are found, one after the other, to be legal. (remember Justin Starlings Cobra coming back completely dismantled at Lorettas in a box? lol)
BR_HERO
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Cerritos, CA, USA
4/5/2012 5:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2012 5:23pm
BradMOTOx wrote:
Dakota Alix's Father went to MillCreek with around $30,000 in pursuit to claim Bisceglias, Martins and Webbs bike. He didn't, instead he protested Webbs
BR_HERO wrote:
30k to claim some "stock" bikes?
BradMOTOx wrote:
Yes. In order to claim a bike you have to have cash for the bikes retail value plus 30% of the retail value added on. Martins...
Yes. In order to claim a bike you have to have cash for the bikes retail value plus 30% of the retail value added on. Martins bike wouldn't have been stock. They had bigger intensions than just claiming stock bikes.
I know how the claiming rule works, i was just surprised on how much money he was ready to drop on what i assumed was for a few stock bikes. But like you said, he had bigger intentions then just claiming the bikes.
4/5/2012 6:03pm
I would guess if they had decided to claim some bikes, they would have claimed the mod bikes.
4/5/2012 6:19pm
So the AMA chose a reputable person for the tear down but yet the bike was not torn down? Why not? Did Star continue to refuse for tear down? It was said above someone was selected and did the tear down. I'm confused.

According to the rule book, the AMA is the director of the protest process. It doesn't give the protested in question a multiple choice as to who can perform the tear down, that discretion is up to the referee on site.

So if I understand this correctly, the protester called off the tear down part of the protest because he was satisfied with the DQ coming from the carb mod. I would sure like to hear from the protester to see if this is true. If this is correct, I think Cooper Webb and team should be thankful the bike wasn't found to be illegal after refusing the protest procedure and possibly losing his license to race for the one year period penalty that he would of received.
slumpstone
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398
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Location
Thomasville, GA, USA
4/5/2012 6:35pm
So the AMA chose a reputable person for the tear down but yet the bike was not torn down? Why not? Did Star continue to refuse...
So the AMA chose a reputable person for the tear down but yet the bike was not torn down? Why not? Did Star continue to refuse for tear down? It was said above someone was selected and did the tear down. I'm confused.

According to the rule book, the AMA is the director of the protest process. It doesn't give the protested in question a multiple choice as to who can perform the tear down, that discretion is up to the referee on site.

So if I understand this correctly, the protester called off the tear down part of the protest because he was satisfied with the DQ coming from the carb mod. I would sure like to hear from the protester to see if this is true. If this is correct, I think Cooper Webb and team should be thankful the bike wasn't found to be illegal after refusing the protest procedure and possibly losing his license to race for the one year period penalty that he would of received.
I think slow old guy explained it pretty good, he was found to be illegal and he was DQed. The carb was not completely stock and the protesting party said that was enough. The part of stopping the tear down after the first thing was found was suggested by the AMA as the conflict of interest issue would not come into play. There were at least 2 not stock modifications done to the carb.
Team Ideal
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Ste. Marie, IL, USA
4/5/2012 7:29pm
thanks SOG. makes sense to me.

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